Unpopular opinions about Pokemon manga

[AgentPierce]

IRed's nuances? You mean being pretty boring and bland after RGB? Gold, at least, is entertaining and funny.

Right, actually developing and changing, as he did in FRLG, was "boring and bland".

While Gold is entertaining and funny, which totally excuses him being a static character.

Silver does suck, though.

He doesn't suck. And I think he, unlike Gold, IS interesting. My only two problems with her are:

1. We never get to see him develop in the way his game counterpart did (from "bad" to "good"), as that happens offscreen with his meeting of Lance and accepting "work" from him.

2. Again, he's limited any time he's stuck with Gold, as Gold is an unchanging character and thus can't inspire much change in Silver. Silver was better in the FRLG arc, away from Gold.

Hahahaha! Pretty funny joke there. I almost thought you were serious! Especially after what you said concerning Gold and Silver being limited.

Hahahahahahaha....I am serious.

Being skilled at something from the beginning does NOT equate to not being able to develop as a character. Crystal was a pro from the start, but it did NOT stop her from developing as a character. If you paid attention to "her blah arc", instead of brushing it off just because it's the first time a girl has been in the lead role (I mean, a girl that we KNOW is a girl the whole way through) you'd see that she grows partly because she's a pro from the start, which leads to a big failure shaking her up more than it would otherwise and her having to re-evaluate everything about herself. She also learns to take her job less seriously afterward, less that bout of depression ever repeat itself.

While Gold....learns he's good at hatching Pokemon eggs. Yeah, big change.

Someone said Gold is Davis from Digimon done right. I disagree. He's Davis done wrong AGAIN.

[Evilchibi_pichu]

Right, actually developing and changing, as he did in FRLG, was "boring and bland".

While Gold is entertaining and funny, which totally excuses him being a static character.

You mean that one scene which did nothing to important to his actual personality or character other than him have a reason to continue have a point in the plot? Yeah, what a big change and what an amazing development. He's still the same character that he was in GSC and in the beginning half of FRLG. Why? Because he wasn't an interesting character to begin with, so him losing and being scared can't have a big impact as his personality makes it no longer possible. There's no reason for us to go, "WHAT? RED LOST?!" because Red has already lost before and it barely affected him. If anything, Red should of been angry not depressed and that would of been him a bit better since it makes more sense. Red is uninteresting in FRLG just as he was in GSC and just as he was in Yellow. In most of FRLG, it's Green (and Blue) that outshines Red until Kusaka remembered Red is the Hero and must defeat the Final Boss. He's nothing but a hero stereotype with a boring personality to match. What exactly about Red stands out and how did FRLG "develop and change" him for the better?

Could Gold benefit from developing? Sure. But, the difference between him and Red is that he's likable due to his personality not because he's the typical happy and caring hero. I find myself more interested in Gold as a main than Red because Gold is funny and charismatic, with a bit of Jerk even if he's a static character. He makes up for in personality. Red bores me as he's just there after RGB; like he's an afterthought.

He doesn't suck. And I think he, unlike Gold, IS interesting. My only two problems with her are:

1. We never get to see him develop in the way his game counterpart did (from "bad" to "good"), as that happens offscreen with his meeting of Lance and accepting "work" from him.

2. Again, he's limited any time he's stuck with Gold, as Gold is an unchanging character and thus can't inspire much change in Silver. Silver was better in the FRLG arc, away from Gold.

Silver has the potential to be interesting. He does suck as he isn't... at all.

There is nothing interesting about him because there is nothing to him. All of Silver's development not only happens offscreen, but is there because the writer needs him to be a certain way. Why did Silver suddenly care about Gold and the anyone that isn't Blue? Why was Silver mostly friendly in FRLG? Who cares! We just need him to be! Yeah, no. Silver felt a bit forced in FRLG because we were supposed to feel sorry for him, but there is no reason for us to be. We don't see Silver caring too much about finding his dad (and barely about his hometown), so the struggle relies on us, the readers, to do it for him. His personality is that of wood which really doesn't help him (in the presence of Gold, he was a bit more interesting due to Gold's charisma). Silver is horrible writing through and through. With Silver, we know him, but we really don't know him. We don't know what drives him, his thoughts, his feelings, his actions, anything. Silver is plain character; Gold is what made him less boring. Even Red has something, Silver is just, "Why should I even care?".

His actions in FRLG would make much more sense if we saw something concerning him and his father and how he felt. His reaction towards his father being the boss of TR is a bit extreme, to be honest. It's almost as random as Green's speech towards him. TR was bad, sure, but Silver just suddenly acts like it's the end of the world when he knows nothing about anything (and he know he doesn't!) concerning his father. It's one thing to be mad at MoI, but another suddenly act like it's hopeless. We have no context to why for this sudden personality change, why he feels this way when he hasn't even officially met his father. It's one of those things where we're supposed to feel sorry for him because the writer wants us to, not because we can't help but to. It would be better if he was set on getting answers from his father and had a bit of hope before he got all depressed. He doesn't have a reason to believe his father wanted him to be a heir; the dude is on the bed looking half dead! He should be more worried and confused than depressed and angry. He never asks himself the whys, he doesn't even doubt the bad guy that looks pure evil!

Hahahahahahaha....I am serious.

Being skilled at something from the beginning does NOT equate to not being able to develop as a character. Crystal was a pro from the start, but it did NOT stop her from developing as a character. If you paid attention to "her blah arc", instead of brushing it off just because it's the first time a girl has been in the lead role (I mean, a girl that we KNOW is a girl the whole way through) you'd see that she grows partly because she's a pro from the start, which leads to a big failure shaking her up more than it would otherwise and her having to re-evaluate everything about herself. She also learns to take her job less seriously afterward, less that bout of depression ever repeat itself.

While Gold....learns he's good at hatching Pokemon eggs. Yeah, big change.

Someone said Gold is Davis from Digimon done right. I disagree. He's Davis done wrong AGAIN.

The problem is that with Crystal, it does. This isn't a novel where she has many chances to be more, she is defined by her skill of being a capture pro. It's one thing to be GOOD as something and another to be a professional! It's the same as if she was an gold medal olympian; she can only get better, but unless there's a reason to be really good, she won't develop because of it. She doesn't have many chances to develop once she's a pro because you can't get better unless she becomes something else. Lol, assuming I didn't pay attention. (And really, do you honestly think I care if she was a girl or not? I'm not some kid, I've seen many heroines, thank you very much.) Yeah, and the question is "So?" Again, why should we care that some pro is having a moment because she couldn't catch a legendary? If we don't see her grow, we're not going to be as caring because we didn't go through the hardships with her. There's a reason why many stories has the protags start weak. It's so the readers can go through the hardships with them and should something like what happen to Crystal actually happen, we would feel for her. We would of saw her develop, we saw how hard she would of worked to become a pro. We would be mad that she lost.

But, I don't and I like Crystal. I don't know how the hardships she had, I didn't see her become better. I have no connection to her being a pro because the story says she's already one. It's basically telling me that she's amazing and sets expectations. There also protags that start off strong, but those stories usually always have situations were the protags are actually weak in the grand scope of things and they need to become stronger. Those stories can be good, but they are dependent on that there's always someone better and there's a need to be strong. Crystal doesn't have anyone, has no reason to have such a need, and such a story would be hard to work with because of her unique skill. Stories on skills tend to work better if the person wasn't that good at it at first and have to practice and get better.

Also, I don't think it was hinted she took her job less seriously; she seems to take her job as a researcher and capturer for Ookido very seriously. Her losing to Suicune wouldn't develop her that way as it's was all about her skills not her personality. Those are independent of one another. And naturally, she wouldn't act the same way again. She's not a confident type of person and not a perfectionist; she would just work harder. That's exactly why her development is now stunted. The need and reason just aren't there. Her unique skill and personality type are much suited for her to start off weak (this doesn't mean she has to absolutely suck at it) and grow into someone strong and confident.

Lol no. Daisuke is nothing like Gold and Gold isn't nearly as much as plot device as Daisuke. Daisuke was probably meant to be like Gold, but it was done horribly as he came off as a tool and dumb while Gold seems to be pretty smart and is a bit crafty.

[matt0044]

I wonder if there's anyway to put threads on your ignore list.

[Weedy Spyze]

I don't think Silver "sucks," but I do agree that he's a watered down version of his game counterpart (and I was never a big fan of Game!Silver to start with). He's too emo and whiny, nothing like his game counterpart at all. Gold's the Davis of Pokemon and Silver's the Ken, basically. That doesn't mean Crystal's better, though. They're pretty much equally pointless in my eyes, but I do like Silver a tad more. Crystal's personality was minimal, and her story arc was boring. As for the age-old rebuttal of being "sexist," nice try but no this has nothing to do with sexism at all.

At least with Gold, he's entertaining. He never had much development either, no, but who's fault is that again? The person who threw him out of his story arc for two books, which I've been complaining about since I started this thread. So basically, it boggles my mind that the Johto trio seems to be the most popular trio of dex holders. The Sinnoh trio were the best overall if you ask me. But Gold's definitely the best of the three in my opinion.

I wonder if there's anyway to put threads on your ignore list.

Nothing's forcing you to click on this thread at all.

[Orbis]

Before I go on a rant about how Silver does not suck..............
Silver doesn't need character development. He was a very well-established character in the beginning, though he was very unlikable. As AgentPierce said, he thrived away from Gold. The FRLG arc brought character development to every single character except Green (he still is one of my least favorite characters). I think the whole Silver/Giovanni thing could have been done much better, but Silver got his own solo spotlight, and when he's not sharing it with Gold, he's my favorite character.


Did I control My anger well?

[Weedy Spyze]

Silver thriving when he's away from Gold? Eh, I wouldn't exactly use that terminology but I guess I can see it? I was about to disagree but after I thought about it for a moment, he really did have a bigger precense and role in FRLG than he did in GSC which is kind of hilarious.

I kinda like Silver's relationship with Green (although I cringe when people try to make it romantic, ugh) but other than her, he really seems to be the black sheep of the Pokedex holders. He doesn't really have any chemistry with any of the other Dex holders. Has he ever actually interacted directly with Crystal at all?

[Orbis]

Silver thriving when he's away from Gold? Eh, I wouldn't exactly use that terminology but I guess I can see it? I was about to disagree but after I thought about it for a moment, he really did have a bigger precense and role in FRLG than he did in GSC which is kind of hilarious.

I kinda like Silver's relationship with Green (although I cringe when people try to make it romantic, ugh) but other than her, he really seems to be the black sheep of the Pokedex holders. He doesn't really have any chemistry with any of the other Dex holders.

ChoosenShipping is the worst, I agree.

Has he ever actually interacted directly with Crystal at all?

Other than saving her from the sinking ship, I don't believe so.

[Evilchibi_pichu]

I don't think Silver "sucks," but I do agree that he's a watered down version of his game counterpart (and I was never a big fan of Game!Silver to start with). He's too emo and whiny, nothing like his game counterpart at all. Gold's the Davis of Pokemon and Silver's the Ken, basically. That doesn't mean Crystal's better, though. They're pretty much equally pointless in my eyes, but I do like Silver a tad more. Crystal's personality was minimal, and her story arc was boring. As for the age-old rebuttal of being "sexist," nice try but no this has nothing to do with sexism at all.

At least with Gold, he's entertaining. He never had much development either, no, but who's fault is that again? The person who threw him out of his story arc for two books, which I've been complaining about since I started this thread. So basically, it boggles my mind that the Johto trio seems to be the most popular trio of dex holders. The Sinnoh trio were the best overall if you ask me. But Gold's definitely the best of the three in my opinion.

Welcome back, Weedy. If Silver is the Ken, then who is Crystal? Miyako/Yolei? That's... that's a pretty horrible if so. xD Funnily, I like Crystal a bit more than Silver. Maybe because I can what's interesting about her.

Anyways, maybe "sucks" was a strong word, but I do find him very boring and suckish. He's very low on my likeable character list since there's... he's just meh. No connection and no reason for me to care. I think the best thing I liked about game!Silver in HGSS was that is he was such a tsundere that he was amusing. In GSC, he's less amusing, but HGSS gave him better development. Sadly, PokeSpe didn't really try to that as well (or something better). I agree about Gold; he never got the chance to develop, even in HGSS. Too many things going on and being kicked out didn't help. The main protag can't develop if the writer is too busy focusing on everyone else. I wonder how Gold would develop, though, without taking anything of his good traits away. I like the Shinou trio as well, but between Pearl and Gold, I would choose Gold since something about Pearl... bothers me.

Before I go on a rant about how Silver does not suck..............
Silver doesn't need character development. He was a very well-established character in the beginning, though he was very unlikable. As AgentPierce said, he thrived away from Gold. The FRLG arc brought character development to every single character except Green (he still is one of my least favorite characters). I think the whole Silver/Giovanni thing could have been done much better, but Silver got his own solo spotlight, and when he's not sharing it with Gold, he's my favorite character.

Oh, please do. I'm interested in what you have to say. I heavily disagree he was a "well-established" character in the beginning. He wasn't anything, but a thief and a quiet kid in the beginning. A well-established character is a character that has already been established once before and is known, has a backstory, and a personality. Silver can't be that because we don't know him in the beginning and he has never appeared before. The game character doesn't count as game!Silver is a separate character who didn't have much in terms of characterization or a backstory and PokeSpe!Silver could be, and is, a completely different character. We don't know anything about this Silver or how he is. He was established quite well, but he wasn't well-established until FRLG, the next time he appears. Did he need character development? Of course! As I said, there was nothing that special to Silver besides his daddy (MoI doesn't count all that much since it really doesn't make too much of difference as the story does nothing with it in terms of Silver) and he wasn't much of a hero or a likeable character. To say he doesn't need character development is saying that Silver is a perfect character since he appeared which is incorrect. Unlike Gold, Silver's personality wasn't all too interesting if he was by himself unless he has some kind of friction. I don't know how you can say he doesn't need character development when he's one of the ones that need it the most. It doesn't bother me that he's your favorite character, but let's not be making excuses for him.

I would agree Silver felt like a better character away from Gold, but really that's because how the writing for GSC and for FRLG was rather than because of his character. If not for Sakaki and that backstory, Silver would still be mostly the same. (That's why a lot of the characters in FRLG seemed like they developed and are more interesting than they were before. The writing was more focused on the writer's intention rather than being all over the place. The slight polish makes a world of difference.) If GSC weren't a mess and the characters better developed, I think Silver could of thrived thanks to Gold and his own type of character. FRLG showed this; it was Gold that Silver thought of during his moment. That hints at that somewhere off panel, Gold had an effect on Silver and how he sees family. If GSC had focused more on them, Silver's more friendly behavior could of been because of Gold and we could of seen that and the family effect. All the threads to good development were there in GSC , they weren't just used correctly or ignored.

[Honeyichigo]

PokeSpe does this and the Anime did this with Paul too. I can see why others might not find this very appealing but to each their own. We all would love to see when and where and how a character grows, but mature audiences will appreciate it better if they can figure it out for themselves. It's closer to home that way if you ask me.

Excuse the late response, but I find it rather interesting that you've used Paul as an example here- his character development is something that gets a lot of criticism on forums like these.

[matt0044]

Excuse the late response, but I find it rather interesting that you've used Paul as an example here- his character development is something that gets a lot of criticism on forums like these.

Well, to each his/her own then. I know others who really like his character development and I agree with them.

[Izanagi]

Speaking of Gold. I always saw him a better developed Davis from Digimon Adventure 02. I know I am not the only one but I always could make parallels with the various Digimon protagonist and the protagonist for Adventure.

Anyways, I agree with above post. I always saw Silver as a developed character and unlike most characters he even got more development after his initial arc with the reveal that Giovanni was in fact his father.

[Orbis]

Oh, please do. I'm interested in what you have to say. I heavily disagree he was a "well-established" character in the beginning. He wasn't anything, but a thief and a quiet kid in the beginning.

By "beginning" I meant the GSC arc. He got plenty of development in his debut arc, and that's what I meant.

[Evilchibi_pichu]

^ I see, but I think you have to be a bit more specific about him getting development in GSC. Where and when did he get development? I remember most of his development happening off screen, for little reasons sometimes.

[Orbis]

^ I see, but I think you have to be a bit more specific about him getting development in GSC. Where and when did he get development? I remember most of his development happening off screen, for little reasons sometimes.

I'm classifying the whole Mask of Ice thing as "development" for the character. It showed why he needed the Totodile, why he was so involved with stopping Neo Team Rocket. I label that development, others may not.

[Faraway_Mew]

Well, this is gonna be fun.

My opinions:
1. I don't like the RS arc. At all. I never ever liked Ruby. It's something about his character, I guess. I absolutely prefer Sapphire more than him.
2. The Yellow arc was bland and uninteresting. I'm sorry but I do not quite understand Yellow's popularity.
3. Am I the only one who doesn't like the BW arc?

Personally, I don't like the character Yellow that much but I liked yellow arc because they twisted it and made the E4 evil villains. And furthermore, each of them were nicely fleshed out. Due to them being villains they are probably the ONLY E4s with extra screen time XD Overally, I like yellow arc because the E4s made it awesome.

For Yellow, her talking to Pokemon power alone would've been fine but her other powers were pretty overkill. I don't hate her but I feel like she could've been better handled. Her arc was pretty hit and miss for me.

In what ways was yellow's powers an overkill...? So she could talk to pokemon and heal them and that's pretty much it wasn't it? Yellow, as far as it goes, is probably the weakest battler among all the dex holders. Yellow defeating lance was a little wth, but I see it more as Yellow+ Red,Blue,Green defeating Lance together. It was presented in a pretty vague manner but I think that was how it was supposed to be. Don' t think Pika can conjured a mega volt whenever he wants to. The level boosting part is a little overboard but I never saw yellow benefiting that much from it.

Emerald arc was a little band for my taste. The only thing I enjoyed there was Ruby and Sapphire's interactions with Emerald. And I never got over the fact that they could have let Wally be the third dex holder.

I actually like GSC arc because it isnt all about battling gym leaders again. All the suicune thing, the mini-Crystal arc (which was delightfully refreshing) all comes together nicely for me.... the only down part was the VILLAIN. That was the worse villain thus far =_= I like the way Crystal was portrayed, as a serious pro kind of character. And the development was nicely done as well. But it wold have been better though if she was really really good. Not just at capturing but at battling too. In the Crystal arc we can see that Crystal is good at using the surrounding/ situation to her advantage, and being able to capture pokemon so effectively probably also meant that Crystal has great control in most of her battles. This could be applied to battles as well. I don't need Crystal to be super badass in battles but somehow it feels that she just isn't good enough even though she was pretty good in the mini Crystal arc. And that kind of spoils Crystal for me though she remains one of my fave female characters in Pokemon special.

Lastly, I don't really like how Lance was drawn in HGSS arc... He looks so.... different. He could have resembled his RCS self more.

[Weedy Spyze]

Welcome back, Weedy. If Silver is the Ken, then who is Crystal? Miyako/Yolei? That's... that's a pretty horrible if so. xD Funnily, I like Crystal a bit more than Silver. Maybe because I can what's interesting about her.

Lol I guess you could say that, the Gold/Crystal dynamic is kinda similar to the Davis/Yolei one (except Digimon did it better). Yellow's definitely the Kari though, but I believe we discussed that before lol.

(Off topic but sorry for leaving you hanging from that pm for over a month, I'll try and get a reply soon lmao).

[Klizcool]

My biggest problem was the ending of the RS series. I did not like how Ruby had a random Celebi. That made no sense. I wanted to see Ruby and Sapphire destroy Archie and Maxie in an epic final battle. That was a major dissapointment and left me frustrated for the time being.

[Orbis]

My biggest problem was the ending of the RS series. I did not like how Ruby had a random Celebi. That made no sense. I wanted to see Ruby and Sapphire destroy Archie and Maxie in an epic final battle. That was a major dissapointment and left me frustrated for the time being.

I agree. Celebi Ex Machina is one of the things about Special that I don't like. Why not let them stay dead? I already have the answer to that: It's a kid's manga. They have to have a comic book death.

[lolipiece]

I agree. Celebi Ex Machina is one of the things about Special that I don't like. Why not let them stay dead? I already have the answer to that: It's a kid's manga. They have to have a comic book death.

Or, a better solution: Don't kill them in the first place.

[iml908]

One thing I didn'y really like was how the Platinum arc took so long. Seriously, 10 months just for one volume. Another thimg I didn't like was how the HGSS arc was just a little rushed, and kinda too short. Another thing I hated was how there were two goals for the chapter: Find Lance and find Giovanni, but both plots went unresolved, and since this is probably the last time we see Silver, we may never now what happened to Giovanni. Also, how did people, who live in the Region of Johto, know about Sinnoh Pokemon, including Arceus, which not even the Dexholders from Sinnoh know about.