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Thread: Unpopular opinions about Pokemon manga

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    @Trutown & @Honeyichigo You must really hate a lot of cartoons then.
    Nah, only the cruddy ones. :P


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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    @Trutown & @Honeyichigo You must really hate a lot of cartoons then.
    Oh, I like Cartoons, but only super hero cartoons. That is why I like Pokemon Adventures, it is basically a super hero comic.The only anime that I actually like is Full Metal Alchemist, and I complain about the same things in that that I complain about here. Other than cartoons, I prefer things like Doctor Who. You know, hard core science fiction.

    "played for laughs. can't believe you took it to another level though and added calcs on it."

    If Pokemon Adventures was pure fantasy, then I could roll with some of the elements that I complain about, but because it tries to be science fiction, I have to complain. Guess what? Science Fiction fans are hard core. We like geeky things like physics and science. We like when the author thinks through the physics and properties of his universe. We don't mind differences in physics, but we want to be told how it all works and for it to be portrayed in a consistent manner. If we are never told about a difference in physics and how it all works, then we have to assume that the physics are the same as ours (like I have said before, genre is not an argument for the creation of the suspension of disbelief). When thing are wrong with the physics of the universe, we like to examine them and find out how and why. That is just how we roll.

    Just because something is played for laughs does not make it okay. The exact same scenario was done in Wreck It Ralph and I didn't laugh there either (even though everyone else in the theater did). Fiction exist so that we have something to aspire too, and if the protagonist in fiction do things that are (morally or physically) wrong, even if it is played for laughs, then there is a problem.

  3. #353
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    I'll admit this much: Pokemon (Special or otherwise) certain does take science (at certain points) and beats it with an aluminum bat. A major offender being Yellow's lava surf.

  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    I'll admit this much: Pokemon (Special or otherwise) certain does take science (at certain points) and beats it with an aluminum bat. A major offender being Yellow's lava surf.
    Why do you not say Onix obviously dispersed but revive later? XD

    And Agatha can change Arbok's pattern, Lorelei can use Jynx make the ice doll then use the lipstick give them frozen, Masked Man can use Swinub make the ice man not dissolved and even can move itself. We even have Kanto badges with mysterious power.

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    ^Well, yeah, them too.

  6. #356
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    Quote Originally Posted by e9310103838 View Post
    Why do you not say Onix obviously dispersed but revive later? XD

    And Agatha can change Arbok's pattern, Lorelei can use Jynx make the ice doll then use the lipstick give them frozen, Masked Man can use Swinub make the ice man not dissolved and even can move itself. We even have Kanto badges with mysterious power.
    Those are some examples that I hadn't thought about yet. Thanks.

    I think we can all admit that the science behind Pokemon Special is pretty much non-existent. It makes pining its genre so much harder. It is not science fiction since the science (even the science of its own universe) is wrong, it is not sci-fi since it at least TRIES to explain itself and to have internal dialogues, and it isn't fantasy since it can't use "any" story-telling element to strengthen its narrative (that is to say, it is limited in what it can and can't do with its narrative). You could make an argument for why it is either sci-fi or fantasy if you really tried, but it is hard to do so because it tries (and fails) to be science fiction, sci-fi, and fantasy all at the same time.

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    Seriously, if you have to criticize Crys kicking Gold in the face, you'll really scrapping the bottom of the barrel of what to criticize. Criticize the other zillion things that suck in PokeSpe that require the effort like the characterization or the story-telling; the discussion on Crys' character was going good until that was brought up. Just because you didn't find it funny doesn't mean it's a problem worth criticizing over, it's another Japanese trope that means nothing to anything. A girl hitting a guy has always been played for laughs as it's a "funny"/"cute" way to show that she's embarrassed. She probably has control of her leg strength as well, so I doubt she kicked him with her full strength.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    You could make an argument for why it is either sci-fi or fantasy if you really tried, but it is hard to do so because it tries (and fails) to be science fiction, sci-fi, and fantasy all at the same time.
    It can't be science fiction (which is sci-fi, so I'm not sure why you separated the two?) as science is mostly glossed over and hardly there beyond a few technological items which are rarely, if at all, explained. PokeSpe certainly doesn't try to be anything involving science.

    I consider it a little fantasy due to pokemon and the legends and myths that turn out to be true in some way, but mostly Adventure/Action. That seems to be a major priority as the plot revolves around there being an adventure with lots of action.
    Last edited by Evilchibi_pichu; 4th March 2013 at 7:16 AM.
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  8. #358
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    Those are some examples that I hadn't thought about yet. Thanks.

    I think we can all admit that the science behind Pokemon Special is pretty much non-existent. It makes pining its genre so much harder. It is not science fiction since the science (even the science of its own universe) is wrong, it is not sci-fi since it at least TRIES to explain itself and to have internal dialogues, and it isn't fantasy since it can't use "any" story-telling element to strengthen its narrative (that is to say, it is limited in what it can and can't do with its narrative). You could make an argument for why it is either sci-fi or fantasy if you really tried, but it is hard to do so because it tries (and fails) to be science fiction, sci-fi, and fantasy all at the same time.
    I think compared with Digimon, PMSP is obvious fantasy adventures story...... XD

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilchibi_pichu View Post
    It can't be science fiction (which is sci-fi, so I'm not sure why you separated the two?) as science is mostly glossed over and hardly there beyond a few technological items which are rarely, if at all, explained. PokeSpe certainly doesn't try to be anything involving science.
    Actually, it's entirely possible for sci-fi to never even try to make sense- that's called "soft" sci-fi, as opposed to "hard" sci-fi which is the sort filled with technobabble and things following some sort of internal logic. That being said, the line between fantasy and sci-fi is easy to blur, and I'd say that's something the Pokemon franchise does as a whole. But hey, let's get back on topic. :P


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  10. #360
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    It's based off of a video game, Pokémon no less. So does it really need to have science? Plus it's a kids manga too... I think you're being way too hard on it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Orbis View Post
    Plus it's a kids manga too... I think you're being way too hard on it.
    Perhaps though I don't really like that excuse to skimp out on quality when you can do better. Though I don't like to be too harsh unless it really strikes a chord with me. And I mean REALLY!
    Last edited by matt0044; 5th March 2013 at 2:40 AM.

  12. #362
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    The "it's for kids" excuse is a terrible excuse.

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    It's Pokemon, I don't see any reason to be so bothered by it. Yellow using Pika's Surf to surf on water made total sense to me and seemed very cool.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    It's Pokemon, I don't see any reason to be so bothered by it. Yellow using Pika's Surf to surf on water made total sense to me and seemed very cool.
    I do question the Lava surf though. It's not good to underestimate how HOT it can be.

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    It's lava. Just by being that close to it, Yellow should've been burned. She doesn't even need to come in contact with it.

    Does convection not exist in fiction?
    Last edited by lolipiece; 6th March 2013 at 12:41 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    It's lava. Just by being that close to it, Yellow should've been burned. She doesn't even need to come in contact with it.

    Does convection not exist in fiction?
    Nope

    Rule of Cool does, however.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evilchibi_pichu View Post
    It can't be science fiction (which is sci-fi, so I'm not sure why you separated the two?) as science is mostly glossed over and hardly there beyond a few technological items which are rarely, if at all, explained. PokeSpe certainly doesn't try to be anything involving science.

    I consider it a little fantasy due to pokemon and the legends and myths that turn out to be true in some way, but mostly Adventure/Action. That seems to be a major priority as the plot revolves around there being an adventure with lots of action.
    Sci-fi is not Science Fiction.

    Take a look at this debate between authors for more:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JDNrn...8x-Mag&index=4

    Pokemon Special does try to explain things though. Take a look at the aura thing in DP and all of the talk about the physics behind Pokemon moves. It also has all of the elements of science fiction:

    1) A time setting in the future, in alternative timelines, or in a historical past that contradicts known facts of history or the archaeological record (the entire Pokemon universe).

    2) A spatial setting or scenes in outer space, on other worlds, or on subterranean earth (Pokemon Adventures goes to all of these places).

    3) Characters that include aliens, mutants, androids, or humanoid robots.
    Futuristic technology such as ray guns, teleportation machines, and humanoid computers (Pokemon Adventures has aliens, androids, and futuristic technology).

    4) Scientific principles that are new or that contradict accepted laws of nature, for example time travel, wormholes, or faster-than-light travel (instant teleportation of living organisms, the wormhole into the Distortion World, and time travel).

    5) New and different political or social systems (it is never outright stated that there are different political systems in Pokemon Adventures, but we do know that it has a very different social system).

    6) Paranormal abilities such as mind control, telepathy, telekinesis, and teleportation (Pokemon Adventures has all of these).

    7) Other universes or dimensions and travel between them (the Distortion World).

    So I guess that is another unpopular opinion: I don't like how Pokemon Adventures cannot decide if it is of the Science Fiction, Sci-Fi, or Fantasy genre.

  18. #368

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    Really Trutown? That's your beef with PokeSpe? In that case, I can safely say that you must not like the games either, considering every single one of those points are in them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    So I guess that is another unpopular opinion: I don't like how Pokemon Adventures cannot decide if it is of the Science Fiction, Sci-Fi, or Fantasy genre.
    And yet you're a Pokemon fan overall.

    Seriously, wut?

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheViolentTomboy View Post
    Really Trutown? That's your beef with PokeSpe? In that case, I can safely say that you must not like the games either, considering every single one of those points are in them.
    I play the games for the game play. I've learned to not expect much from the story in Pokemon games.

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    ...

    Is it safe?

    Well, he's an one you won't see much of: I like Yellow and her arc for whatever it may be worth (minus a few details). In addition, I don't really mind the "lack of character development" if I like the character itself. Maybe they don't change but I say "if it ain't broke, don't fix it." The only exception to this would be Gold who could've benefited from it.

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    My opinion about the Black/White saga of PokeSpecial is that it just isn't nearly as riveting as the previous arcs. I own volumes 1-26 (haven't read the Emerald / DPPT / HGSS ones yet) but have recently read a bunch of the BW chapters, and am shocked at how lackluster they are compared to volumes 1-26. I mean, after the story of Red/Blue/Green who have that epic-has-hell battle in the Silph tower, or Yellow who can heal Pokemon with her powers and goes up against a homocidal dragon Elite Four member, or Ruby and Sapphire whose family & friends die in the Kyogre & Groudon battle and are brought back thanks to Celebi, reading a story about a boy who simply wants to go the Pokemon League & a girl who wants to do Pokemon musicals but sort of gets into battling just isn't capturing me the same way. Team Plasma doesn't even seem that threatening in these series, and when they unleash Reshiram & Zekrom, they barely seem to wreak much havoc at all. I dunno, after all the beautifully witty scenes that Hidenori Kusaka has thought up in the previous arcs, these BW chapters just seem to come so far underneath the bar I'm very very surprised. it seems like he's just phoning this one in to me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
    My opinion about the Black/White saga of PokeSpecial is that it just isn't nearly as riveting as the previous arcs. I own volumes 1-26 (haven't read the Emerald / DPPT / HGSS ones yet) but have recently read a bunch of the BW chapters, and am shocked at how lackluster they are compared to volumes 1-26. I mean, after the story of Red/Blue/Green who have that epic-has-hell battle in the Silph tower, or Yellow who can heal Pokemon with her powers and goes up against a homocidal dragon Elite Four member, or Ruby and Sapphire whose family & friends die in the Kyogre & Groudon battle and are brought back thanks to Celebi, reading a story about a boy who simply wants to go the Pokemon League & a girl who wants to do Pokemon musicals but sort of gets into battling just isn't capturing me the same way. Team Plasma doesn't even seem that threatening in these series, and when they unleash Reshiram & Zekrom, they barely seem to wreak much havoc at all. I dunno, after all the beautifully witty scenes that Hidenori Kusaka has thought up in the previous arcs, these BW chapters just seem to come so far underneath the bar I'm very very surprised. it seems like he's just phoning this one in to me.
    The BW arc hasn't even reached it's climax, of course things are a bit slow. But still I have to disagree with you. Black and White got some terrible shock when a Pokemon they thought they trusted suddenly betrayed them. Five Gymleaders are missing and N's presence is enough to create havoc. The normal Plasma members aren't doing that much because they are using words against the people to get to their goals and do the acting behind the scenes, when not many people are involved. Alder was beaten by N and is now missing and team Plasma will appear at the Pokemon League soon and that's when the real battle will start.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyclone View Post
    My opinion about the Black/White saga of PokeSpecial is that it just isn't nearly as riveting as the previous arcs. I own volumes 1-26 (haven't read the Emerald / DPPT / HGSS ones yet) but have recently read a bunch of the BW chapters, and am shocked at how lackluster they are compared to volumes 1-26. I mean, after the story of Red/Blue/Green who have that epic-has-hell battle in the Silph tower, or Yellow who can heal Pokemon with her powers and goes up against a homocidal dragon Elite Four member, or Ruby and Sapphire whose family & friends die in the Kyogre & Groudon battle and are brought back thanks to Celebi, reading a story about a boy who simply wants to go the Pokemon League & a girl who wants to do Pokemon musicals but sort of gets into battling just isn't capturing me the same way. Team Plasma doesn't even seem that threatening in these series, and when they unleash Reshiram & Zekrom, they barely seem to wreak much havoc at all. I dunno, after all the beautifully witty scenes that Hidenori Kusaka has thought up in the previous arcs, these BW chapters just seem to come so far underneath the bar I'm very very surprised. it seems like he's just phoning this one in to me.
    I must say that DP is also the same situation, but the plot is still exciting. Than BW is the same with.

  25. #375
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    Are we allowed to talk about other Pokemon manga?

    What about comics?

    If so, I must say that I kinda like Pikachu Meets the Press. Now I haven't read all of it, and the art is sloppy, but it had some cute/funny stuff.
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