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Thread: Unpopular opinions about Pokemon manga

  1. #476
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    Am I the only one who really could care less for "game accuracy" 100% in Pokespe? This is heavily complained about, but honestly? Who in the world wants a direct game copy in manga form, this manga is interesting simply because it's willing to do things different and try different ideas. Which is why it sucked to me that the BW chapters seemed so close to their game counterparts.
    Originality is nice, it's why I'm always happy to see goals not involving Pokemon Leagues. As for BW goes, I'll be honest I liked it a lot more when White's BW Agency was still running. I found her agency more interesting then Black's Gym quest. Though I think the two co-existed quite well. I don't want it to be 100% like the games either, but at the same time I do enjoy the game features they do manage to put into the chapters because they usually add their own spin on the situation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    Am I the only one who really could care less for "game accuracy" 100% in Pokespe? This is heavily complained about, but honestly? Who in the world wants a direct game copy in manga form, this manga is interesting simply because it's willing to do things different and try different ideas. Which is why it sucked to me that the BW chapters seemed so close to their game counterparts.
    Well I don't think PokeSpe has ever had 100% game accuracy with how even in the arcs that follow closer there's still plenty of changes and additions, and that includes BW. And personally I like having a closer adaptation of the games compared to how loose some of the other adaptations are. I definitely wouldn't mind them straying some more though, but I am a bit hesitant on them straying too much based on how some past things have turned out.
    "But sometimes I have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no other reality. Furthermore he is happy there.

    So why, I ask myself, why in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of our own reality?"

    ~Doctor's memo, from Silent Hill 2

  3. #478
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    One of the criticisms of White is that after Gigi leaves, she apparent becomes "spineless," particularly when she lets Gigi stay with N (if she wants). I hate this notion that if a female character isn't kicking *** or taking name (to be fair, I wish White was shown battling more) and if she ever cries or whatever, she's a "bad character." It's a stigma that forms a bias against femininity in fiction (something Teen Titans subverted well). Quite frankly, White letting Gigi stay with N shows how she has grown since that incident. How's she's letting Gigi have the option of deciding for herself to do other things besides Acting. That's very mature of her and I don't think the old her who was caught up with her work would've done the exact same. This blog post explains other good points.

    And I hate how apparently her attire isn't what a "girly girl" would wear. Allow Thomas the Tank Engine to break it down. Plus, if a girl wants to be feminine while wearing denim-shorts, a tank top, a black vest, black/pink shoes and a baseball cap, by all means they can and nobody should tell them to conform to some stereotype to match how they look. Hooray for Feminism!

    And Gigi...

    Let me spell it out for a certain someone who believe that Gigi was "characterized inconsistently." White made Gigi into a movie star and the little Tepig liked it. However, she never got to battle so it hardly occurred to her that she could be the best that no one ever was jk. That is, until N trapped White and Gigi and had Servine attack. Forced to defend herself, Gigi fried Servine and was shocked by the damaged she done. Then N started telling her how she could be a great battling Pokemon, worthy of the Champion perhaps. With such thoughts and still tasting the sweetness of victory, Gigi naturally thought along the lines of, "He's got a point. Maybe if I give it a shot, I can get better and better."

    White wasn't having any of this and tried to get off with Gigi. Gigi couldn't tell White with words and instead hopped into N's lap to say, "Sorry but I want to see if I can do this." It wasn't a very good way to communicate it but it was effective enough to make her point to White (in the worst way, unfortunately). She still liked acting and dancing but she wanted to test herself as a battler. It's not that she suddenly decided she hated acting so much as she decided she wanted to try battling.

    And before you say it came out of nowhere, well, that's because it was meant to be a twist and the best kind are the ones that surprise you, making you go, "Gee, when you put it like that..." And there was foreshadowing with White not being able to battle and her not wanting Tep to evolve (meaning Gigi was forbidden at all costs).
    Last edited by matt0044; 16th February 2014 at 4:12 PM.

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    Regarding the pacing of the RGB chapter, I saw it as something akin to an episodic TV show where we jump from adventure to adventure each chapter (or every few chapters) and it hardly bugged me. I suppose when you read it in the volume as opposed to read each chapter weekly/monthly in a magazine, you'll find oddities like it.

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    Here's an unpopular opinion: While I do agree Celebi fixing everything did undo some of the emotional impact, I don't think it got rid of all of it like most people seem to. The impact is still fully there when you first read it (as long as you haven't been spoiled anyway), and it's still fairly emotional even when you do know what happens.

    Also, I don't think keeping Norman and co. dead would've magically made the RS ending that much better either. With how little time there was left to wrap everything up, there's no way they could've fully explored the impact of the deaths so they likely would've been brushed over for a happier ending. Or, if they did focus on the impact entirely, it would be rushed and a very depressing ending. Personally I don't think either of those options sound much better than what we got.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Regarding the pacing of the RGB chapter, I saw it as something akin to an episodic TV show where we jump from adventure to adventure each chapter (or every few chapters) and it hardly bugged me.
    That's exactly what it's like. In fact, it reminded me a lot of the anime... Personally I prefer the latter arc's more plot-oriented stories though. Not that the more episodic approach is bad, but if Special never evolved beyond it I probably wouldn't love it as much as I do today. :P
    Last edited by 1dbad; 9th May 2014 at 3:45 PM.
    "But sometimes I have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no other reality. Furthermore he is happy there.

    So why, I ask myself, why in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of our own reality?"

    ~Doctor's memo, from Silent Hill 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    there's no way they could've fully explored the impact of the deaths so they likely would've been brushed over for a happier ending. Or, if they did focus on the impact entirely, it would be rushed and a very depressing ending.
    Maybe though the Emerald Arc could've shown if Kusaka felt like it.
    Last edited by matt0044; 9th May 2014 at 5:32 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Maybe though the Emerald Arc could've shown if Kusaka felt like it.
    The Emerald arc would've been possible, but it had to introduce our new protag as well as wrap up everything from FRLG. Though the remake arcs we'll be getting now could've...but obviously they didn't know we'd be getting them at that time. :P
    "But sometimes I have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no other reality. Furthermore he is happy there.

    So why, I ask myself, why in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of our own reality?"

    ~Doctor's memo, from Silent Hill 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    The Emerald arc would've been possible, but it had to introduce our new protag as well as wrap up everything from FRLG. Though the remake arcs we'll be getting now could've...but obviously they didn't know we'd be getting them at that time. :P
    Still if you're going to pull something like a protagonist having a SUPER-DE-DUPER RARE POKEMON worthy of the title "legendary," it would AT LEAST be nice to follow up such a vital plot-thread. Maybe give us an origin story in a chapter or two.

    Just saying as all.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Still if you're going to pull something like a protagonist having a SUPER-DE-DUPER RARE POKEMON worthy of the title "legendary," it would AT LEAST be nice to follow up such a vital plot-thread. Maybe give us an origin story in a chapter or two.

    Just saying as all.
    Oh yeah definitely, but I was talking about a parallel universe in which they stayed death/Celebi possibly wasn't used, haha. Maybe the RS remake arc can finally elaborate on Celebi? Last I heard Celebi has a new move that needs to be showcased in Special, after all, and what better arc to use it again? :P
    "But sometimes I have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no other reality. Furthermore he is happy there.

    So why, I ask myself, why in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of our own reality?"

    ~Doctor's memo, from Silent Hill 2

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    The new move in question is Hold Back, which is literally exactly the same as False Swipe. Bringing back Celebi just to showcase that would be... kind of lame. :| Not that I'd put it past Special.


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  11. #486
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    Last I heard Celebi has a new move that needs to be showcased in Special, after all, and what better arc to use it again? :P
    Couldn't another Pokemon show it off?

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Couldn't another Pokemon show it off?
    It's a Celebi exclusive move so far.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    Here's an unpopular opinion: While I do agree Celebi fixing everything did undo some of the emotional impact, I don't think it got rid of all of it like most people seem to. The impact is still fully there when you first read it (as long as you haven't been spoiled anyway), and it's still fairly emotional even when you do know what happens.

    Also, I don't think keeping Norman and co. dead would've magically made the RS ending that much better either. With how little time there was left to wrap everything up, there's no way they could've fully explored the impact of the deaths so they likely would've been brushed over for a happier ending. Or, if they did focus on the impact entirely, it would be rushed and a very depressing ending. Personally I don't think either of those options sound much better than what we got.
    The ending to the Ruby and Sapphire arch is in no way inherently bad. In fact, it follows nine out of the ten of the Dos and Don'ts of Novel Endings. The big problem is that it resorts to a gimmicky ending that causes the reader to feel a bit cheated.

    The problem is not that the emotional impact is undone. I think that the biggest problem with the ending is that everything is undone or fixed "because of time travel". Before you say that that doesn't matter because "Celebii can time travel by nature", hear me out.

    While other forms of sci-fi like Star Trek and Doctor Who do the same thing, it doesn't come out of nowhere in those shows. In Star Trek, the episode is usually focused around time travel and in Doctor Who, time travel is the central premise of the show. However, time travel in Ruby and Sapphire's ending is completely contrived. It doesn't flow naturally from the story. Sure, there is an attempt to allude to it with the time travel elements of Mirage Island, but it is unexplored and completely superficial. The section on Mirage Island doesn't explore how time travel works in the Special universe and doesn't seriously foreshadow the ending. Juan hints that there is some kind of space time disturbance with Ruby, but it doesn't really foreshadow the fashion of the ending.

    The section on Mirage Island was the perfect place to explain how time travel works in the Special universe. Ruby or Sapphire could have suggested using the island's passage through time to prevent past events from happening. Then it could have established three different options:
    1) Changing events creates alternate timelines that the person no becomes a part of (like in Back to the Future). This means that the future issue can never truly be resolved in the original time line.
    2) Changing events causes temporal paradoxs that could have universe ending consequences. Editing events will not work or will cause the event to happen.
    3) Time actually allows the changing of events and fixes itself to accommodate for those events. Paradoxes are allowed in this scenario, but there would need to be an explanation for why the two can't go change history to solve the problem.
    This prevents us from having to explain how time travel changed everything at the very end and it allows our characters to explore the implications of the setting they are in.

    The problem that needs to be resolved is that the ending feels contrived. While it is good that Celebii doesn't resolve the central conflict, it undoes all of the consequences of the central conflict. The Hoenn region is now restored, the dead are now alive, and the status quo is preserved.

    While it is true that keeping the dead characters dead and keeping Hoenn destroyed would not have fixed the ending, it removes the consequences of the narrative that could have been good set up for future stories in the Special universe. This should have been the event that changed everything. Two evil gangs got together and caused two forces of nature to have a gigantic death match that leveled an entire city, threw the Hoenn region's environment into chaos, and possibly killed millions of people. Just think about how the world would change after an event like that. However, we are left with a huge event with no consequences.

  14. #489
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    So I also just read the RS arc [because of the ORAS news] and while it was good and I did enjoy it more than any of the other arcs i've read I found the parts with Sapphire unbearably boring to slog through. I had a much more enjoyable time reading Ruby's parts. I also really agree with Trutown, I hated the ending. The whole Celebi thing felt like a HUGE cop out and contrived as ****. How the hell did Ruby get Celebi to begin with? Why haven't we been foreshadowed to this. I mean yeah I guess you could point out that Mirage Island hints to something like time travel and when Ruby mentioned "the sixth pokemon of my team" I knew Celebi was coming but still...what the ever loving hell? He never alluded to having a sixth pokemon before. It was not once touched on that I can remember. It would have had much more weight had they all stayed dead. Ruby could have lost his dad and learned the value of a life and UHHHGGG MISSED OPPORTUNITIES! It's like it's saying "If you have faith and time travel all the bad things in your life will go away." No that's not how it's supposed to end things don't just go away like that. I wanted to see more of that real emotion like we got with Mimi's part. That stuff was good, more of that please. But no all the bad had to be poof, whipped away because we HAVE to have a happy ending. I call bull ****.

    Also I felt Mirage was kinda contrived into there to. I didn't really understand why they had to push Sapphire away for Ruby to take the spotlight. Yeah I get it that he loves her and wants her to stay safe, that's cute and all, but it would have been even more powerful if they did it together [after I type that it sounds wrong...]. This whole time we were training and leading up to them calming Groudon and Kyoger, it was the whole basis for the last third of the story but in the end it was only Ruby and Norman who did it. So they pushed away Sapphire for more father son moments, moments that we had plenty of through the whole arc and we already had a resolution to halfway through. Maybe you could have had Sapphire in Mirage's place. That would have created some drama and tension. You could have had Ruby save Sapphire instead of calming Groudon and Kyoger, and then make Rayquaza come in and everything be reviled.

    Yeah you could say they might not have had enough time to flesh that out but it could have been done in the emerald arc where we could have seen an impact or a weight. Hoenn still being rebuilt, Ruby learning to cope with the loss of his dad and almost loosing Sapphire. Honestly the Emerald arc was boring enough that I would have preferred it. [though my babu hubby Gold was a main focus so I don't think i'd want to touch it.]

    Uhg contrivances just make me cringe. The arc was good the ending just felt far to rushed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniss View Post
    So I also just read the RS arc [because of the ORAS news] and while it was good and I did enjoy it more than any of the other arcs i've read I found the parts with Sapphire unbearably boring to slog through. I had a much more enjoyable time reading Ruby's parts. I also really agree with Trutown, I hated the ending. The whole Celebi thing felt like a HUGE cop out and contrived as ****. How the hell did Ruby get Celebi to begin with? Why haven't we been foreshadowed to this. I mean yeah I guess you could point out that Mirage Island hints to something like time travel and when Ruby mentioned "the sixth pokemon of my team" I knew Celebi was coming but still...what the ever loving hell? He never alluded to having a sixth pokemon before. It was not once touched on that I can remember. It would have had much more weight had they all stayed dead. Ruby could have lost his dad and learned the value of a life and UHHHGGG MISSED OPPORTUNITIES! It's like it's saying "If you have faith and time travel all the bad things in your life will go away." No that's not how it's supposed to end things don't just go away like that. I wanted to see more of that real emotion like we got with Mimi's part. That stuff was good, more of that please. But no all the bad had to be poof, whipped away because we HAVE to have a happy ending. I call bull ****.

    Also I felt Mirage was kinda contrived into there to. I didn't really understand why they had to push Sapphire away for Ruby to take the spotlight. Yeah I get it that he loves her and wants her to stay safe, that's cute and all, but it would have been even more powerful if they did it together [after I type that it sounds wrong...]. This whole time we were training and leading up to them calming Groudon and Kyoger, it was the whole basis for the last third of the story but in the end it was only Ruby and Norman who did it. So they pushed away Sapphire for more father son moments, moments that we had plenty of through the whole arc and we already had a resolution to halfway through. Maybe you could have had Sapphire in Mirage's place. That would have created some drama and tension. You could have had Ruby save Sapphire instead of calming Groudon and Kyoger, and then make Rayquaza come in and everything be reviled.

    Yeah you could say they might not have had enough time to flesh that out but it could have been done in the emerald arc where we could have seen an impact or a weight. Hoenn still being rebuilt, Ruby learning to cope with the loss of his dad and almost loosing Sapphire. Honestly the Emerald arc was boring enough that I would have preferred it. [though my babu hubby Gold was a main focus so I don't think i'd want to touch it.]

    Uhg contrivances just make me cringe. The arc was good the ending just felt far to rushed.
    Celebi willingly went with Ruby because it knew what would happen in Groudon and Kyogre fought.

    Yes, it was a DEM, but stop getting mad when a manga for children tries to have a happy ending.

    I personally would've just not have them die, but whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    One of the criticisms of White is that after Gigi leaves, she apparent becomes "spineless," particularly when she lets Gigi stay with N (if she wants). I hate this notion that if a female character isn't kicking *** or taking name (to be fair, I wish White was shown battling more) and if she ever cries or whatever, she's a "bad character." It's a stigma that forms a bias against femininity in fiction (something Teen Titans subverted well). Quite frankly, White letting Gigi stay with N shows how she has grown since that incident. How's she's letting Gigi have the option of deciding for herself to do other things besides Acting. That's very mature of her and I don't think the old her who was caught up with her work would've done the exact same. This blog post explains other good points.

    And I hate how apparently her attire isn't what a "girly girl" would wear. Allow Thomas the Tank Engine to break it down. Plus, if a girl wants to be feminine while wearing denim-shorts, a tank top, a black vest, black/pink shoes and a baseball cap, by all means they can and nobody should tell them to conform to some stereotype to match how they look. Hooray for Feminism!

    And Gigi...

    Let me spell it out for a certain someone who believe that Gigi was "characterized inconsistently." White made Gigi into a movie star and the little Tepig liked it. However, she never got to battle so it hardly occurred to her that she could be the best that no one ever was jk. That is, until N trapped White and Gigi and had Servine attack. Forced to defend herself, Gigi fried Servine and was shocked by the damaged she done. Then N started telling her how she could be a great battling Pokemon, worthy of the Champion perhaps. With such thoughts and still tasting the sweetness of victory, Gigi naturally thought along the lines of, "He's got a point. Maybe if I give it a shot, I can get better and better."

    White wasn't having any of this and tried to get off with Gigi. Gigi couldn't tell White with words and instead hopped into N's lap to say, "Sorry but I want to see if I can do this." It wasn't a very good way to communicate it but it was effective enough to make her point to White (in the worst way, unfortunately). She still liked acting and dancing but she wanted to test herself as a battler. It's not that she suddenly decided she hated acting so much as she decided she wanted to try battling.

    And before you say it came out of nowhere, well, that's because it was meant to be a twist and the best kind are the ones that surprise you, making you go, "Gee, when you put it like that..." And there was foreshadowing with White not being able to battle and her not wanting Tep to evolve (meaning Gigi was forbidden at all costs).
    Doryuzu made an excellent case here: http://cheekrub.tumblr.com/post/8427...-feelings-over

    Also the "RS ending was bad" opinion isn't really an unpopular one. Every fan and their mother agrees. Though the things about rushed endings I don't get is why they need to have the story quickly coincide with the current games. IT'S POKEMON! FANS WILL READ IT NO MATTER WHAT THE GENERATION!
    Last edited by matt0044; 11th May 2014 at 5:07 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeyichigo View Post
    The new move in question is Hold Back, which is literally exactly the same as False Swipe. Bringing back Celebi just to showcase that would be... kind of lame. :| Not that I'd put it past Special.
    Thanks for the info. Wow, I didn't realize the move was so pointless. :/ But yeah, Special operates under an unspoken "showcase EVERYTHING" rule so I won't be the least bit surprised if they do. Especially since Kusaka seems to love Celebi with all the appearances he's had it make.

    Quote Originally Posted by Trutown View Post
    The ending to the Ruby and Sapphire arch is in no way inherently bad. In fact, it follows nine out of the ten of the Dos and Don'ts of Novel Endings. The big problem is that it resorts to a gimmicky ending that causes the reader to feel a bit cheated.

    The problem is not that the emotional impact is undone. I think that the biggest problem with the ending is that everything is undone or fixed "because of time travel". Before you say that that doesn't matter because "Celebii can time travel by nature", hear me out.
    I mentioned emotional impact because that's usually the complaint I see about the ending, but you're right. It's really the missed opportunity of what they fixed and how gimmicky they went about fixing it that's the problem. Your ideas for how they could have done it better are fantastic though.

    Though, if memory serves, didn't Celebi just pluck Ruby and Sapphire out of the timeline they were in and moved them into an alternate one? (rather than actually going back in time and changing the one they were in) If so, it's weird to think there's a timeline where the day was saved, but everyone was still dead and Ruby and Sapphire mysteriously disappeared forever...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniss View Post
    I found the parts with Sapphire unbearably boring to slog through. Why haven't we been foreshadowed to this.
    I agree Ruby's parts were definitely a lot better, but really? I didn't think Sapphire's parts were boring. And actually, I think I recall someone pointing out there was some foreshadowing in some earlier parts as well. It's all really minor though and stuff you don't pick up on until a re-read, so it wasn't exactly well-done. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniss View Post
    I didn't really understand why they had to push Sapphire away for Ruby to take the spotlight. Yeah I get it that he loves her and wants her to stay safe, that's cute and all, but it would have been even more powerful if they did it together [after I type that it sounds wrong...]. This whole time we were training and leading up to them calming Groudon and Kyoger, it was the whole basis for the last third of the story but in the end it was only Ruby and Norman who did it.
    Yeah, I understood Ruby's reasoning, but it felt really weird after Sapphire had showcased just how capable she was. If anything, I think it would have worked better if she was the one who locked him in the car, since her development as a kid was all about becoming stronger to protect the ones she loved. But if she had to be left there, I really wish she could have broken out. I mean at least she got to do a bit with Pulse and Minun but she deserved more. And it's not like her being included would've meant they couldn't still do everything they did with Norman and Courtney stuff...

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniss View Post
    Yeah you could say they might not have had enough time to flesh that out but it could have been done in the emerald arc where we could have seen an impact or a weight. Hoenn still being rebuilt, Ruby learning to cope with the loss of his dad and almost loosing Sapphire. Honestly the Emerald arc was boring enough that I would have preferred it.
    Yeah, Emerald likely could've showcased it off perfectly. it's just the ending of RS wouldn't have been as good, and having to get through FRLG before seeing the full impact would've been annoying.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    I personally would've just not have them die, but whatever.
    Yeah, had they not killed them there wouldn't even be an issue. Personally I am kind of glad they did though, just because it made for such a dramatic moment and it interesting to think about.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Though the things about rushed endings I don't get is why they need to have the story quickly coincide with the current games. IT'S POKEMON! FANS WILL READ IT NO MATTER WHAT THE GENERATION!
    You under-estimate just how stupid marketing executives can be. :P
    Last edited by 1dbad; 11th May 2014 at 8:10 PM.
    "But sometimes I have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no other reality. Furthermore he is happy there.

    So why, I ask myself, why in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of our own reality?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    Celebi willingly went with Ruby because it knew what would happen in Groudon and Kyogre fought.

    Yes, it was a DEM, but stop getting mad when a manga for children tries to have a happy ending.

    I personally would've just not have them die, but whatever.
    Then why was that never foreshadowed and came out of the blue. It was completely contrived and totally random. It didn't flow with the ending at all and it made absolutely no sense for him to have it. We were never alluded to him having a 6th pokemon before now so why does he suddenly have one? How do you know Celebi willingly went with him. Where on earth in the manga does it say that? It could have done that but it isn't explained to us properly. No we just get a "I got this pokemon in Johto before I left". Well why the heck didn't you use it before. You clearly know what Celebi does if you're using it now, you know it's powerful, why didn't you use it in the beginning? There was no previous reason for Celebi to be there and it just creates a bunch of plot holes.

    Okay so a manga that has in the past depicted pokemon getting cut in half, being decaying zombies, really intense action and fight scenes, blood, kidnapping, pretty much beating someone up, and even previously death can't suddenly show it now? All because it's the main characters dad? It could have been turned into a very valuable lesson of life and death had they done it right. And mind you it's rated all ages not just for children. They've gotten away with far worse than that imo. The fact that they even shown it. It was some heavy emotional stuff why suddenly erase all of it.

    Basically what they did and how they set it up basically said "you just read through all of that emotional stuff and now were going to make it all totally pointless because it never happened, it doesn't exist, hoenn is back to normal, no one got hurt, everyone's alive, huray" Do you know how ******** that sounds. I felt some pretty strong emotions after reading that. That stuff hurt like a freight train. And then, 3 pages later all that emotion pretty much ALL RESET. Yeah the fight still happened but all the negative side effects that, you know, made the emotion and made this feel real are now completely gone just like that. It pissed me off more than you know. It made me think "ok, so why on earth did I even get emotionally invested in these characters if this ******** was going to happen and it was going to mean absolutely nothing in the end."

    It's like sonic 06 to Sonic Adventure, and I know that's a bad comparison but... remember at the end of Sonic 06 [maybe you don't but either way] how SPOILER: Elise blew out solaris's flame and then we come back to the very beginning of the game, none of it happened, everything is right in the world again and everything can move on peacefully. And yeah you saved the world but all that stuff you just played through now means nothing because it never happened. It doesn't matter now it's erased all gone. Yet compare that to something like Sonic Adventure. You defeat perfect chaos but the world never resets, in the end station square is still underwater and in total ruin. Yet that game still ends on a happy triumphant note, because the world was saved and humanity can continue. Sonic Adventure is a game rated for everyone and it did it right there, why couldn't it do it right here.

    You can't use the excuse "it's for children." Children are better at accepting and understanding things than we know. There have also been plenty of instances where death has been brought up in children's media. It's a topic everyone needs to understand how to cope with. Death is not something that will just go away if you have faith and time travel. It's sending the wrong message to kids. It's just UHG.
    Last edited by Dragoniss; 11th May 2014 at 8:30 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    Thanks for the info. Wow, I didn't realize the move was so pointless. :/ But yeah, Special operates under an unspoken "showcase EVERYTHING" rule so I won't be the least bit surprised if they do. Especially since Kusaka seems to love Celebi with all the appearances he's had it make.
    Well, not everything like with HGSS (could've seen the Kanto Gym Leaders but didn't).

    Why do I get the feeling that Norman, Courtney and Steven WERE meant to be dead but an editor didn't like it (after publication), demanding a change for the final chapters? I heard of cases like this and it's not out of the question.
    Last edited by matt0044; 11th May 2014 at 9:46 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    Yes, it was a DEM, but stop getting mad when a manga for children tries to have a happy ending.
    FRLG ended with the main characters becoming stone.

    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    I personally would've just not have them die, but whatever.
    I'm not sure if I'm against reviving them, but I think it could have been done without undoing the impact.

    Also, lolipiece, all I remember from you right now, is you always telling people to stop complaining about certain things. Why do you always do that?

    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    Yeah, I understood Ruby's reasoning, but it felt really weird after Sapphire had showcased just how capable she was. If anything, I think it would have worked better if she was the one who locked him in the car, since her development as a kid was all about becoming stronger to protect the ones she loved. But if she had to be left there, I really wish she could have broken out. I mean at least she got to do a bit with Pulse and Minun but she deserved more. And it's not like her being included would've meant they couldn't still do everything they did with Norman and Courtney stuff...
    The reason because she didn't take part in the fight is because Japan and gender roles. In other words, sexism. Let me explain with a quote from TV Tropes:
    Quote Originally Posted by TV Tropes
    The phrase ''I'll protect you'' in Japanese is often used in anime as a declaration of devotion and commitment – especially when said to a woman by a man – and not a petition to be her bodyguard (although that does come up now and again). It's often translated as just "I love you" in English. Because gender roles in Japanese culture are much more rigid than in other parts of the world, this is sometimes used to show a male character who has been less than macho to be stepping up as a man, and gives a tomboyish girl a chance to showcase her femininity by being protected like girls are supposed to. This can be really, really weird for Western audiences, who are left to wonder what the Hell The Hero is thinking, offering to protect his super-powered/magical/martial artist/psionic girlfriend if she's clearly capable of taking care of herself.
    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ssonance/Anime
    Anime... PAAWAA!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-SANtos View Post
    The reason because she didn't take part in the fight is because Japan and gender roles. In other words, sexism. Let me explain with a quote from TV Tropes:

    http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.ph...ssonance/Anime
    There's nothing really wrong with the scene IMO since it DOES show Ruby's character growth, putting Sapphire's safety above his own when that'd be the last thing he'd do in the arc's first chapter. I still would've liked it better if Sapphire was fighting with him from the get-go but again, Ruby's actions signify how he has grown that I can't help but be glad over. I guess I'm mainly mixed if anything.
    Last edited by matt0044; 11th May 2014 at 10:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniss View Post
    Well why the heck didn't you use it before. You clearly know what Celebi does if you're using it now, you know it's powerful, why didn't you use it in the beginning?
    Because it's a Legendary. A very common recurring thing throughout the manga is a Dexholder will catch or partner with a Legendary Pokemon, but it'll only help them during special situations. At the end of DP, Dia actually manages to capture Regigigas, but is unable to use it unless the Pokemon deems the situation worthy of needing its help.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dragoniss View Post
    I felt some pretty strong emotions after reading that. That stuff hurt like a freight train. And then, 3 pages later all that emotion pretty much ALL RESET. Yeah the fight still happened but all the negative side effects that, you know, made the emotion and made this feel real are now completely gone just like that.
    Honestly I was still pretty emotional when I saw they were okay too, because I was so relieved they were okay in the end. And while it got rid of most of the negative side effects, I dunno if I would say it got rid of them all. In the Emerald arc Ruby showed some signs that could be interpreted as him having PTSD. Even if it all got reversed, he still personally experienced everything that happened there so it's possible he still has some trauma from everything that went down. Whether or not Kusaka will do anything with it in the remake arc is the question though.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Well, not everything like with HGSS (could've seen the Kanto Gym Leaders but didn't).
    They were most likely going to though, before they had to rush HGSS to a conclusion.

    Quote Originally Posted by G-SANtos View Post
    The reason because she didn't take part in the fight is because Japan and gender roles. In other words, sexism. Let me explain with a quote from TV Tropes:
    Thanks for that, but I was actually aware of what gender roles (and some other social issues) are like in Japan. It's really frustrating because Japan (and Kusaka) can actually make some really amazing female characters, only to poorly utilize them due to stuff like that.
    Last edited by 1dbad; 11th May 2014 at 11:11 PM.
    "But sometimes I have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no other reality. Furthermore he is happy there.

    So why, I ask myself, why in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of our own reality?"

    ~Doctor's memo, from Silent Hill 2

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1dbad View Post
    Thanks for that, but I was actually aware of what gender roles (and some other social issues) are like in Japan. It's really frustrating because Japan (and Kusaka) can actually make some really amazing female characters, only to poorly utilize them due to stuff like that.
    I believe I stated my stance above.

    You got that right! The Legend of Korra is returning on October 3rd! Mark your calendars!

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    There's nothing really wrong with the scene IMO since it DOES show Ruby's character growth, putting Sapphire's safety above his own when that'd be the last thing he'd do in the arc's first chapter.
    Even if his intentions were good, Sapphire doesn't manage to escape to participate in the battle. Even in movies where a character is trapped by another hero who's trying to protect them, they usually manage to escape and help the hero. Here this doesn't happen. It's just the plain old "girls are weak and must be protected" and female subordination to a male.

    Ruby may want to protect Sapphire, but he can't simply decide for her what she can do. When he locked her in the car, he was basically taking away her choice to help. He was deciding for her what she could do. Watch The Amazing Spider-Man 2, as there's a scene that basically talks about this stuff.
    Anime... PAAWAA!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by G-SANtos View Post
    Ruby may want to protect Sapphire, but he can't simply decide for her what she can do. When he locked her in the car, he was basically taking away her choice to help. He was deciding for her what she could do. Watch The Amazing Spider-Man 2, as there's a scene that basically talks about this stuff.
    Completely agree with your whole post. In other words, what Ruby (and Kusaka) did to Sapphire was strip her of her agency, which is basically a character's ability to make her own decisions. The fact Sapphire was both a capable fighter and decision maker up to that point is what makes her case of it especially disappointing.
    Last edited by 1dbad; 12th May 2014 at 12:25 AM.
    "But sometimes I have to ask myself this question. It's true that to us his imaginings are nothing but the inventions of a busy mind. But to him, there simply is no other reality. Furthermore he is happy there.

    So why, I ask myself, why in the name of healing him must we drag him painfully into the world of our own reality?"

    ~Doctor's memo, from Silent Hill 2

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