What happened to Sird???

[lolipiece]

Has anyone mentioned that the legend of Veilstone regarding the armour Sird offered Archie is connected to the Musketeer-Trio of Unova? I think we still have a lot to see of Sird...

What? When was that said?

[e9310103838]

Also, there are some plotholes in the manga. Namely the entirety of the Emerald arc. I haven't read the arc yet, so I only know the things I heard here. The plotholes are:
-Ookido (Oak) refused to give a Zukan (Dex) to Gold because it would just be a battle tool for him, but gives one to Emerald who also only sees it as a battle tool.
-Ookido gave Odamaki (Birch) a Zukan that already had a registered owner. Why?
-Gold had a copy of Guile's armor, even though he wouldn't have enough time to do one.
This is all I can remember so far.

Prof. Oak initially did not give dex to Gold, because Gold sudden and unreasonable demands Prof. Oak give dex to him, and he do not even know Gold.

And Emerald, who through the teacher know the child in the beginning.

He give Pro. Birch 3 dexs might just pure forgotten......yes.

Gold has two months time ready to the armor (attack on Prof. Oak, Archie is Guile Hideout already.)

None of them are plotholes...they're not even mysteries, they were already explained. Oak didn't want to give Emerald a Pokedex at first, remember? It's been a while since I read Emerald so I may recall wrong but I think Oak gave Emerald the Pokedex after his reformation. For the second one, there are plenty of explanations for that (maybe there already is an explanation, my memory is fuzzy). Oak wanted Birch to choose who to give the Dex to or he wanted him to give it to Emerald when he was ready? And can you keep track of the time within the manga? And besides, he's Gold, he surprises everyone. Those you mentioned may come off as "goofs" but they're definitely not plotholes.

Before the dex give to Pro. Birch, Emerald has registered the dex already......

[e9310103838]

What? When was that said?

When Sird gives sward and armor to Archie, she refers to this myth (yes, the myth in gen.4......)

But I'm not sure it's connected with the Musketeer-Trio......

[Macromind101]

Reading that whole argument kinda made my mind a mess, but I guess I can see what I can say. I agree that it's hard to think about Saque being with team Plasma, since Plasma didn't exist at that time, but I do remember in the games was stated that Getsis used to travel to find people who can help him in accomplishing his plans. It could be then, that before Saque was in team Galactic she met Getsis. He talked her into helping her, but before he need information about the teams that are creating havoc in other regions so he won't make the same mistake. He tells her to infiltrate into team Galatic and follow every demand of Cyrus until she got the info she needs. In Galactic Cyrus demands her to research into space, they heard about Team Rocket looking for a Pokemon from space, so she thought a perfect opportunity to get what Cyrus wants and research more about the way other evil teams are operating. After FRLG arc she uses Archie for her ambitions she tells him that she's from team Galactic instead of team Plasma, because what spy would tell others she is a spy? Would be quite stupid, rightt?
So after that she goes back to Sinnoh with the information for Cyrus. She researches some more about team Galactic and after the DP arc she disappears to Unova to give Getsis the information she collected. Maybe he sends her off to another infiltration in the world tournament, but Getsis has no idea that Sird is just using him for her own plans or whatever. Thought this theory sounds very ridiculous

Since it's Kusaka, I'm sure he'll come up with something. We were all surprised when Pryce made an appearance in the HGSS arc. Kusaka always amazes me when he comes with up with things for the arcs. In the DP and HGSS ending in the magazine were very disappointing to me, but Kusaka makes them much better in the tankoubon. I am sure kusaka has a reason for not finishing her off sooner, don't forget that Kusaka is limited and you can't pull a whole arc out of your head in one week. It's not like being a mangaka gives you a lot of free time.

RGB arc had 3 volumes just like FRLG arc and the Yellow arc had 4 volumes.
What about the embedded tower in HGSS? That one didn't appeared in the manga. In the Platinum arc they didn't show any sigh of the legendary bird trio. We haven't seen Steven either or Cynthia or any other gymleader from Sinnoh that did appear in the HGSS games and the Pokewalker system neither I am sure some people also expected some cameo's of Sinnoh's frontier brains. I am not sure if that's everything, but that's all I can remember what appeared in the games and not in the HGSS arc.

Okay for that to be true Kusaka would have had to scrap ALL plans for Sird he initially had and replace them with new ones. Sure he could do that but that is actually an a**-pull to some extent.

And one flaw in your theory there. Not sure if this applied in the games, but in the manga Ghetsis started gathering followers and setting the background for Plasma three years before the events of BW. I'm not sure what the time span is between HGSS and BW but the time span between FRLG and BW is definitely more than three years (three years between FRLG and HGSS and unknown amount of time between HGSS and BW do the math). Meaning Sird's first appearance as a Rocket elite was before Ghetsis started planning for Plasma (or at least saying them out loud). Making that theory impossible.

[Dreamingflower]

Okay for that to be true Kusaka would have had to scrap ALL plans for Sird he initially had and replace them with new ones. Sure he could do that but that is actually an a**-pull to some extent.

And one flaw in your theory there. Not sure if this applied in the games, but in the manga Ghetsis started gathering followers and setting the background for Plasma three years before the events of BW. I'm not sure what the time span is between HGSS and BW but the time span between FRLG and BW is definitely more than three years (three years between FRLG and HGSS and unknown amount of time between HGSS and BW do the math). Meaning Sird's first appearance as a Rocket elite was before Ghetsis started planning for Plasma (or at least saying them out loud). Making that theory impossible.

3 years ago Getsis had already assembled people for team Plasma as we have seen in the BW2 special chapter. So I assume he started traveling much earlier, we don't know how long he traveled and when exactly, it could have been 7 years before the be chapter or sooner or later.

[G-SANtos]

I have already stated how it can in fact fit in one volume. I don't remember if it was in this thread or another. And I want a question asked (I said it before but since you keep ignoring that question I'll ask it one last time).

What!? How am I ignoring your question? If you pay attention all my posts had attempts to answer your question. Poor attempts, but who am I? I haven't even read the arc yet, I'm not the most qualified person to answer your question in a good way. Dreamingflower did a better job answering your question, and his/her answer was much better than my next attempt: An Eighth Sage.
We know the manga has brought extra admins for Aqua and Magma, and thus they could put extra members in Team Plasma (have they ever brought any member that wasn't in the games yet?), which could be an Eighth Sage: Saque.

Also, it can't. A satisfactory ending can NOT fit in HGSS specially because Saque hasn't even been mentioned yet. You don't pull the final villain of an arc during the climax. If Kusaka finishes Saque in HGSS, no matter how he does, it WON'T satisfy the readers, and Kusaka won't head for an unsafisfactory ending unless he's forced to. There's nothing forcing him to wrap up her now.
While it seems pretty obvious that Saque is somehow involved in HGSS's plot, I can't see her being finished here. I think her true intention here was to catch Arceus, but I don't what purpose this can serve to the plot.

How will Kusaka be able to fit Sird into the B2W2 plot when it will most likely (and should) be about neo-Team Plasma and Ghetsis's plan with Kyurem? Ghetsis and Sird have two entirely different plans. I don't see them working together (nor with Corless). Sure, I guess if the Dexholders all met in one place then that would be the perfect time for Sird to swoop in and attempt at stealing their Pokedex but that does not fit in with (what should be) the main plot. And Sird is with Galactic. Although we do not know what her motives for joining Galactic are nor do we know if she's still loyal to them due to her disappearance in the Platinum chapter, I can't see it being related in any way to Plasma's cause. Just think about it for a minute. Do you really want Sird being affiliated with Plasma as well, after all the teams she's gone through and how little that's accomplished? And believe me, after nearly a decade with this, I would be fine with any scenario that finishes Sird off. I just don't want her finished off in a place where she doesn't fit in.

The thing is, we don't know her plan. For all we know she could have accomplished more than meets the eye.

I find that unlikely. If Sird's true affiliations are with Plasma, then why does she have a preference for Galactic over Rocket? It looked like her actions in FRLG and Emerald were all for Galactic. And if Sird was out to dominate each region, then why did she leave right after she did something that benefited Cyrus?

Maybe she was just on a reconnaissance (or recognition, whichever is right word) mission. G-Cis could have sent her to gather info about other regions, and her reason for affiliating with other teams could just be for this purpose: Gathering info. This info could help G-Cis take over each region at a time and he would start with Isshu.

If she didn't stick around after petrifying the Kanto Dexholders and Silver and giving the weapons to Archie then it doesn't look like she wanted to do anything more than to please Cyrus. If her true affiliations were with Plasma rather than Galactic, then why did Sird go to Galactic grunts rather than Plasma grunts after the events in FRLG? And when Crystal asked Archie who gave him the weapons, why did Archie stutter "Galac..." instead of "Plasma"?

Because she told him she was from Galactic. Isn't that obvious!?

If Sird really was from Plasma, then she would have told Archie that she was from Galactic rather than Plasma (yes I know that Plasma didn't exist at the time but looking at the manga's continuity). I'm sure Kusaka had plans for Sird when he designed her and since no hint of Gen V was given at the time, I don't think Kusaka would completely redesign Sird's plot due to new game elements (well maybe slightly, I'm sure all recurring villains received that fate but not completely overhauled).

For all we know, Kusaka could have thought her as "a recurring villain with multiple connections over the world" and only later would choose a convenient time to finish her.

None of them are plotholes...they're not even mysteries, they were already explained. Oak didn't want to give Emerald a Pokedex at first, remember? It's been a while since I read Emerald so I may recall wrong but I think Oak gave Emerald the Pokedex after his reformation. For the second one, there are plenty of explanations for that (maybe there already is an explanation, my memory is fuzzy). Oak wanted Birch to choose who to give the Dex to or he wanted him to give it to Emerald when he was ready? And can you keep track of the time within the manga? And besides, he's Gold, he surprises everyone. Those you mentioned may come off as "goofs" but they're definitely not plotholes.

Well, everyone has called them plotholes, so I just went along because I don't know much about this yet. But the impression I get is that he had knowledge that would be impossible for him to have and... I should reach the current chapters before I start discussing plot holes.

But there's one thing that is definitely, inarguably, undeniably a plothole: The whole "hey, I found out there are more Pokémon in the world than I thought there were". The first arc says there are only 151 Pokémon in the world. The second one shows there is more (with Ookido explicitly saying there were only 150 Pokémon known in the world), the third arc shows the 251, and so on. However, here's the thing: Some flashbacks show that some characters had "recently discovered" Pokémon as children, and it's implied that everyone living in that region knows about that Pokémon. But if there were people who knew about this Pokémon, then how come it was still unknown? Unless the globalization in the Pokémon world is very screwed, this is a plothole.

Reading that whole argument kinda made my mind a mess, but I guess I can see what I can say. I agree that it's hard to think about Saque being with team Plasma, since Plasma didn't exist at that time, but I do remember in the games was stated that Getsis used to travel to find people who can help him in accomplishing his plans. It could be then, that before Saque was in team Galactic she met Getsis. He talked her into helping her, but before he need information about the teams that are creating havoc in other regions so he won't make the same mistake. He tells her to infiltrate into team Galatic and follow every demand of Cyrus until she got the info she needs. In Galactic Cyrus demands her to research into space, they heard about Team Rocket looking for a Pokemon from space, so she thought a perfect opportunity to get what Cyrus wants and research more about the way other evil teams are operating. After FRLG arc she uses Archie for her ambitions she tells him that she's from team Galactic instead of team Plasma, because what spy would tell others she is a spy? Would be quite stupid, rightt?
So after that she goes back to Sinnoh with the information for Cyrus. She researches some more about team Galactic and after the DP arc she disappears to Unova to give Getsis the information she collected. Maybe he sends her off to another infiltration in the world tournament, but Getsis has no idea that Sird is just using him for her own plans or whatever. Thought this theory sounds very ridiculous

How about this: Remember that in the games G-Cis's plans involved him being the only person with Pokémon in Isshu to that he could take over? In BW he wanted to convince people to free their Pokémon, and in BW2 he wanted to freeze Isshu to steal them. I see how it could connect with the World Tournament plot and world domination.

Who would partcipate in the World Tournament? The best trainers in the world (this includes come of the Zukan/Dex owners). If G-Cis steals their Pokémon, then the other regions become more vulnerable along with Isshu. So we can have G-Cis sending saque to infiltrate in the World Tournament, then Handsome (Looker) comes to investigate a rumor about, dunno, some conspiration in the World Tournament, and one thing leads to another but saque would be finished in BW2.
Man, that theory sounded better in my head, specially because I don't know how exactly I should word it.

Has anyone mentioned that the legend of Veilstone regarding the armour Sird offered Archie is connected to the Musketeer-Trio of Unova? I think we still have a lot to see of Sird...

What? When was that said?

That's just speculation posted on Bulbapedia. They even say it "may be" connected. Nothing implies this, though. Why is that even there? Wikis shouldn't have speculation in them, they are just misleading.

Okay for that to be true Kusaka would have had to scrap ALL plans for Sird he initially had and replace them with new ones. Sure he could do that but that is actually an a**-pull to some extent.

Not if HGSS actually hints it. Plus, we don't know if Kusaka had great/well-defined plans for Saque. Like I said, he could be planning little by little. Writers don't plan everything at the start of the work.

[IcyKerpymon]

What? When was that said?

well, it's just a theory but one that makes sense. Cobalion did stand up against "humans who harmed pokémon", and the Veilstone Myth refers to a man who did that. I know it's a Myth from Veilstone and that Unova has nothing to do with it, even less Cobalion, but it's the only pokémon (/trio) known for challenging or standing up to humans to protect other pokémon and that's what's in the myth.

but now that I re-read it, the sword belonged to the human who attacked the pokémon, not the pokémon itself so...

[Macromind101]

well, it's just a theory but one that makes sense. Cobalion did stand up against "humans who harmed pokémon", and the Veilstone Myth refers to a man who did that. I know it's a Myth from Veilstone and that Unova has nothing to do with it, even less Cobalion, but it's the only pokémon (/trio) known for challenging or standing up to humans to protect other pokémon and that's what's in the myth.

but now that I re-read it, the sword belonged to the human who attacked the pokémon, not the pokémon itself so...

Okay I don't think Sinnoh myths would correlate to Unova myths. And I'm pretty sure the man in the myth is a human. He's definitely a human in the manga because Sird's armor is fit for a human (assuming that the sword and armor is related to the Veilstone myth).

[Fake Psychic]

For all we know, Kusaka could have thought her as "a recurring villain with multiple connections over the world" and only later would choose a convenient time to finish her.

Sounds like Ex-International Police to me.......

[Macromind101]

After FRLG arc she uses Archie for her ambitions she tells him that she's from team Galactic instead of team Plasma, because what spy would tell others she is a spy? Would be quite stupid, rightt?

Sorry didn't think of this until now. Sird was Galactic's spy as well. Your argument applies to Galactic's case since if it's stupid for Sird to reveal that she's from Plasma, then it would also be stupid for her to reveal that she's from Galactic.

Okay and something that I should add is that Sird's affiliations with Galactic was hinted in the Gen 3 chapters. If one looked closely during that time, he would notice that Sird has affiliations with lots of Pokemon from space. And then at the end of the Emerald chapter, it was confirmed. There are no hints as of now that Sird is in cahoots with Team Plasma, in any of the Gen 4 chapters or the released BW chapters. I'm pretty sure that there would be small hints in the later parts of Platinum or HGSS but there aren't. There are no hints in BW either. If Sird is indeed with Plasma then I think we should have seen her by now but we didn't. And just think, what in Plasma would benefit Sird? First they are out to liberate Pokemon and now they are trying to take over the world (like all the other villainous teams). From what we've seen of her, Sird is simply a hunter working for Galactic. Since Sird had connections to all space-related legendary Pokemon so far, I would think that she would be connected to Arceus and the Creation trio in HGSS. Even if it's just a mere mention or a cameo, I am pretty confident that Sird will be tied in with the plot. But no matter what happens, I still don't think that Sird is connected with Plasma. If she is, then Kusaka is taking the "connected with every villainous team known to mankind" thing way too far.

[Beat!]

I got a feeling we wont be seeing more of Sird until more volume-exclusive content comes out. (I.E volume 43..or maybe later)
Think about it.. First she appeared at the end of the Emerald chapter which was exclusive content for the volumes, then she appeared in the DP chapter when volume 37 came out showing her in her Galactic costume..and then the small cameo and references to her in the Platinum chapter, which again were content not showed in magazines.

[lolipiece]

I got a feeling we wont be seeing more of Sird until more volume-exclusive content comes out. (I.E volume 43..or maybe later)
Think about it.. First she appeared at the end of the Emerald chapter which was exclusive content for the volumes, then she appeared in the DP chapter when volume 37 came out showing her in her Galactic costume..and then the small cameo and references to her in the Platinum chapter, which again were content not showed in magazines.

Even so, it probably won't be anything more than a cameo.

Unless BW starts with only one chapter or something, chances are she won't have a proper defeat now.

[Flintoff Cypress]

I could see Sird mentioned in passing, but having her appear for a major role so suddenly would involve some serious rushing and asspulling. With Giovanni, Pryce, and Lance joining the fray Vol. 43 is going to be busy enough.

If she is, then Kusaka is taking the "connected with every villainous team known to mankind" thing way too far.

This. I do admit that it was kind of neat that he created a character literally glues all four generations together, but I can't see him putting her with Team Plasma she had an epiphany, was brainwashed, or somehow became amnesic-but-still-evil.

It would be neat if Kusaka does B2W2 with all of the Plasma storyline that he has planned, and then do an extra arc for the World Tournament. Dexholders would have a reason to be there, Sird could appear, they could finish her and then there would be a way to bow out gracefully if TPTB or Kusaka decide to end the series.

As I said a million times before, Sird is "the Big Bad" of PokeSpe and I don't expect her to be finished off until the series is near the end.

EDIT: Disregard the crossed-out stuff, I really shouldn't post after being awake for 20 hours straight.

[G-SANtos]

Sorry didn't think of this until now. Sird was Galactic's spy as well. Your argument applies to Galactic's case since if it's stupid for Sird to reveal that she's from Plasma, then it would also be stupid for her to reveal that she's from Galactic.

Okay and something that I should add is that Sird's affiliations with Galactic was hinted in the Gen 3 chapters. If one looked closely during that time, he would notice that Sird has affiliations with lots of Pokemon from space. And then at the end of the Emerald chapter, it was confirmed. There are no hints as of now that Sird is in cahoots with Team Plasma, in any of the Gen 4 chapters or the released BW chapters. I'm pretty sure that there would be small hints in the later parts of Platinum or HGSS but there aren't. There are no hints in BW either. If Sird is indeed with Plasma then I think we should have seen her by now but we didn't.

Well, there's always he chance that it'll be added in the volumes. SPECIAL does this a lot. Not to mention that we still have seen pretty much nothing from G-Cis either, and he's supposed to be the villain of BW, your argument is invalid.

And just think, what in Plasma would benefit Sird? First they are out to liberate Pokemon and now they are trying to take over the world (like all the other villainous teams).

The Pokémon liberation thing was all a lie to begin with, they just did that so G-Cis could take over. And if Saque is really from Plasma, then her actions would be to benefit G-Cis, not herself.

I got a feeling we wont be seeing more of Sird until more volume-exclusive content comes out. (I.E volume 43..or maybe later)
Think about it.. First she appeared at the end of the Emerald chapter which was exclusive content for the volumes, then she appeared in the DP chapter when volume 37 came out showing her in her Galactic costume..and then the small cameo and references to her in the Platinum chapter, which again were content not showed in magazines.

And also, we haven't seen much of G-Cis, right? The only moment I know he appeared was in N's coronation. Maybe the volume version will show him discussing something with Saque?

It would be neat if Kusaka does B2W2 with all of the Plasma storyline that he has planned, and then do an extra arc for the World Tournament. Dexholders would have a reason to be there, Sird could appear, they could finish her and then there would be a way to bow out gracefully if TPTB or Kusaka decide to end the series.

As I said a million times before, Sird is "the Big Bad" of PokeSpe and I don't expect her to be finished off until the series is near the end.

I'm pretty sure BW2 will have both the Plasma plot and the World Tournament, and they'll probably be connected. Achroma (a Plasma member) participates in the plot-obligatory part of the Tournament in the games, and from what I heard, Isshu freezes after this.

Also, memorize what I say: SPECIAL won't end as long as Kusaka lives and the Pokémon franchise or the manga makes money. And even if Kusaka dies, they can replace him with another writer.

[Flintoff Cypress]

Wow, I totally don't remember posting last night. Sleep deprivation leads to some weird things. :<

I keep forgetting that Achroma is involved with the World Tournament. I really should play B2W2 before making assumptions.

Also, memorize what I say: SPECIAL won't end as long as Kusaka lives and the Pokémon franchise or the manga makes money. And even if Kusaka dies, they can replace him with another writer.

I guess that's wishful thinking on my part. Some things need to end before they get too stale. I guess the series isn't quite to the stale point, but I can see it happening quite soon. But that's just my opinion.

[Macromind101]

Wow, I totally don't remember posting last night. Sleep deprivation leads to some weird things. :<

I keep forgetting that Achroma is involved with the World Tournament. I really should play B2W2 before making assumptions.



I guess that's wishful thinking on my part. Some things need to end before they get too stale. I guess the series isn't quite to the stale point, but I can see it happening quite soon. But that's just my opinion.

I don't think the series is getting stale at all. Maybe if Kusaka constantly focused on the same characters in every chapter (so Red is the main character in every chapter from RGB till now) then it would get old but there are new plots and new characters every generation so every few years it starts over freshly. And when old characters do appear again, it's not without character development. So as long as there are new plots constantly along with new characters (which shouldn't be hard since they're based on the games) the manga will continue to be good.

[Flintoff Cypress]

And that's PokeSpe's only saving grace. I guess what I was trying to say is that Sird would make a good ending point to the series, be it in one generation or in however many generations it takes before Pokemon as a franchise is unmarketable and the manga is unprofitable. For all we know, the franchise and PokeSpe could outlive any of us.

[e9310103838]

I think it is very obvious thing, if Sird not appear in HGSS said she would hook has been with Team Plasma (whether espionage or any forms).

[gamer_legend]

I'm actually wondering what Sird did with Entity One because she did say at one point she "Trashed" it but I'm curious on whether she meant threw it away like she did with Darkrai or kill it and bury it in a trubish dump.

[Macromind101]

I'm actually wondering what Sird did with Entity One because she did say at one point she "Trashed" it but I'm curious on whether she meant threw it away like she did with Darkrai or kill it and bury it in a trubish dump.

It was weak from the battle with Red (from my memories, someone correct me because it's been around three years since I read the FRLG chapter in full) and it needed aid from Team Rocket but Sird kicked it out of the airship because it was no longer useful. Here's my theory: it was very close to dying but Entity Two managed to reach it just in time (after the events in the chapter) and revived it. The two then went to Sinnoh. I think the two Deoxys should have appeared in either DP or Platinum so the aftermath of their story would be explained and it was hinted that the two took off to Sinnoh.