Last edited by Evilchibi_pichu; 8th August 2012 at 11:59 AM.
90% of pokemon fans hate/dislike Pikachu, if you are one of the 10% who don't, copy and paste this in your signature (started by Rukario907)
~Treasure Fighter (Kiyomaro's Theme)~ and Fuji Syuusuke ~Claimed
My Journey Log of Pokemon White
Warning: General jerkiness and sarcasm abound. Of course, spoilers as well.
Okay sorry for bumping an old thread but now that Volume 42 is out and now that we know that there WILL be more to the actual HGSS chapter than was in the magazines, I think I should say this. Now we know 100% that Kusaka does NOT leave any plotholes in the manga. And he will NOT submit to time-constraints when it comes to finishing chapters in the manga to its fullest potential. Giovanni is no longer missing. Pryce is back. Silver is no longer blind. (Thank god, I too thought for a second that Kusaka had to resort to rushing in order to get the HGSS chapter over with.) So I'm just going to say this. Sird has no business in any chapters beyond Generation IV. We now know that Kusaka does NOT leave plotholes in his work. So I will bet my life on the theory that Sird will appear one last time in HGSS and she will be finished off once and for all there. The reason we are all thinking that the Sird plot is just simply ditched due to time constraints (well, some of us, others think that she has a place in the PWT) is that we thought Kusaka was forced to leave the HGSS plot with a corny ending. But now that we know that Kusaka is NOT that kind of writer, there is definitely a good chance that the Sird plot will wrap up nicely. No good writer will give a villain that has lasted nearly a decade a bad/nonexistent ending.
EDIT: And just a recap of all the plotholes left as of now: Sird's whereabouts and true intentions (obviously), the reason why she lost possession of the Sinnoh dexes, what her true loyalties to Team Galactic really was (she didn't even show up for their final conclusion so how loyal can that make her), and how she got access to the Distortion World where she released Darkrai.
MORE EDITS: Okay here's my theory on why Sird ditched Team Galactic at the Platinum chapter: Sird's reason for joining Galactic was because she wanted control over the Creation trio and she wanted to harness their powers over time, space, and matter which is why she was loyal to Cyrus. But when Cyrus lost control of Dialga and Palkia at Spear Pillar, Sird decided to ditch Galactic because they were useless to her now and she decided to take control over the Creation trio in her own hands. After Giratina sucked Dialga, Palkia and Cyrus into its world, Sird chased after it on her Starmie to investigate. It was there where she got access to the Distortion World and she released Darkrai there because it was uncontrollable and it was giving too much of a trace of her (hence Riley's sensation of Sird's aura, which may have been because of Darkrai). Sird left and then she concocted the idea of having access to the Creation trio through Arceus and the Sintoh Ruins. And so she gathered the Rocket generals in Johto and convinced them to gather all the plates to summon Arceus, making it sound like it would bring Giovanni back. Everything went from there as shown in the HGSS chapter and now that the Creation trio was materialized by Arceus, Sird's manipulation of the Rocket generals was successful and now she will attempt to take control of the Creation trio which was her motive behind joining Galactic in the first place.
Just a theory.
OKAY SORRY ONE MORE EDIT: Okay one thing I would like to mention here (I said this in another thread already but I'll add it to this thread since it's relevant): what motive could the three ex-villains have in teaming up with each other to stopping the Creation trio and Arceus? The whole purpose of bringing Arceus to the Sinjoh Ruins and re-creating the Creation trio was to bring Giovanni back. So why would Giovanni have to "stop" those Pokemon? Since the generals are loyal to Giovanni (except maybe Petrel) he could just tell them to, like, stop? I don't see a point where the Rocket generals lost control of Arceus's creation, well, up until Arceus absorbed the plates. But then again, it still wouldn't give Giovanni any reason to team up with two former enemies to bring HIS OWN minions down. It doesn't even look like the Creation trio and Arceus are causing any rampage. If Arceus is no longer under Archer's control, then what does anyone have to worry about? Arceus doesn't have malevolent intentions and the Creation trio probably follows Arceus's orders. The only way I can see the three having any reason to team up with each other to stop Archer's plan is if there is some greater evil behind the whole Arceus plot which leads me to my Sird theory. (okay then again it could be something else but still, Sird is the only villain that is relevant to the Arceus plot who could be the greater evil behind it, I think...)
Last edited by Macromind101; 28th October 2012 at 10:32 PM.
While we know that Vol. 43 is the ending of the HGSS chapter, we also know that is also the beginning of BW. There are a few rounds left for HGSS (5 or 6 at most) and i doubt that Kusaka can give a proper ending to Saque's story line in those few chapters, specially when she hasn't even been mentioned so far or even hinted at. IF she does appears (and that's a big if), my guess is that it will only be a cameo or a minor appearance. Of course i could be wrong and Kusaka does a pretty good job at proving people wrong but i guess we have to wait and see.
What i want to see is the preview for the next volume so we could get an idea of how many chapters of BW will be included.
I could see Sird cameoing in HGSS but being finished off? Unlikely. It would be to rushed and to forced for that matter as Sird hasn't been in HGSS at all and she doesn't need to be connected to every little thing involving a evil team plot. I can see a cameo but her being finished off I don't see and if it is it will probably be rushed. I'm tired of Sird theories so the sooner they finish her the better but it makes little sense to end her in HGSS now when she hasn't been a factor in this entire arc. It would be so random and show that Kusaka just wants to off the character as soon as possible.
Parena or Serecham both equal Serena+Pancham!
EDIT: Oh and btw, about that last statement on making it look like Kusaka wanting to finish off Sird as soon as possible...I think if it were to make it seem like that then she would have been finished off way back in the FRLG chapter four chapters ago...and if you look at my theory (I'm not saying that it will be true or even 1% true, just making one possibility among millions) then utilizing flashbacks Kusaka can make it make sense can't he? He's done that in nearly every chapter in one of those moments where he ties in a previous event to a current one. There are numerous plotholes left by Sird and need I remind you it is NOT like Kusaka to leave any plotholes hanging around no matter how astronomically small they are. And please, someone explain to me what, in any way, would Sird appearing in a future chapter after HGSS make it NOT seem like something coming out of absolutely nowhere. There has never been an instance where Kusaka pulled something out of his a** (and if one wishes to argue the ending of the RS chapter then I'll state that Celebi made a brief appearance at the beginning of the chapter so it's not THAT big an a**-pull). And I believe that he will make up for our previous disappointments and WTF's. I know a lot of you are saying that Sird's affiliation with Galactic and her random and non-contributing appearance at the end of DP is a giant "lolwut" but if my theory is true to some extent then it would make sense after a couple years.
Last edited by Macromind101; 28th October 2012 at 9:57 PM.
By the way, did Vol. 41, indeed, say "Vol. 42 is the climax", or did it say "Vol. 42 will start the climax"? I don't remember if I saw a translation of that text.
Either way, it's very unlikely Saque will be finished off in HGSS. BW2 is more likely due to the World Tournament, which could have another Encyclopedia/Zukan (Dex) owners reunion.
Last edited by Macromind101; 28th October 2012 at 10:16 PM.
Sird should have been the main villain of Platinum arc, being the boss of Charon/Pluto and Team Galatic with Cyrus gone. It was the perfect time to finish her off since she was confirmed to be a Galactic agent all along and she had Darkrai. The rushed factor of Platinum is probably why she didn't even appear. I'm tired of Sird, but I do think such a character deserves to go out as the main villain of whatever arc she meets her maker in and I'm sorry it's not HGSS. Archer and the Team Rocket generals have been the main villains of HGSS. If she cameo's and reveals to have helped them learn about Arceus, so be it. I mean Carr (or whatever his name is) appeared so I could see her appearing just not ending her. But at this point I don't really care about Sird's connections anymore.
Parena or Serecham both equal Serena+Pancham!
Finishing Sird off in Platinum would have made more sense the HGSS. Where is Sird's connection in HGSS again? At the moment she doesn't have one, and while I'm sure one can be forced into the arc at the last minute, it would be so lame for her to be finished off in HGSS when she hasn't appeared or even been mentioned at all. In DP and Emerald when she appeared at the end of those arcs it was just her explaining her role, but she battled no one of importance, unless you count Riley of course. I highly doubt Sird will be the main villain of HGSS because the arc is going to be ending next volume and there is not a trace of her to be found. If they do end her in HGSS I won't care but I wouldn't say it's the best choice. She should have been the one gathering the legendaries in Sinnoh and got finished off in Platinum.
As far as her not appearing in any Gen past IV, you don't know that. We don't know what's planned for the future gens. Kusaka could make her appear anytime he wants no matter what gen it is, so this time limit thing you seem to have her on really doesn't imply. Though she should not appear past gen IV.
Parena or Serecham both equal Serena+Pancham!
And what's more, an appearance in HGSS would tie in with all the other seemingly irrelevant appearances in the past. And okay, I'm not Kusaka so I have no idea how this Sird plot will turn out until it does. But what I'm saying is, and it looks like you agree with me based on your last statement, is that Sird has absolutely NO place in the Gen V plot. How on earth will Kusaka tie her in with Plasma? I guess her obsession with the Pokedex will lead her to the PWT but like I said before, that is not relevant to the plot that Kusaka should, and probably will, feature at the time. I highly doubt there will be two separate plots for B2W2 since it wouldn't work out and it is definitely unneeded. All I'm saying is, based on Kusaka's past actions and previous events in the manga, it is not out of his style to do what I'm theorizing. There are still several plotholes left by Sird and the last opportunity to wrap them up is the HGSS chapter. Unless, of course, you count the Red chapter (is it a chapter or a round?)
Can someone post on his twitter asking him what his plans for Sird are? He successfully answered the question about Pryce and the Mahogany Gym (think he answered "It's a secret" which does make sense now that we know what happened) so perhaps he'll answer this one? If he answers something like that, then we definitely know that there is a plan with her. If Kusaka is going to ditch the whole Sird plot then he will probably answer honestly and this debate can end once and for all.
I don't doubt Sird will end, I just don't think it will be in HGSS and honestly nor should it. I have no problem with her being involved with the generals and telling them about Arceus. Heck that actually makes sense. I just fail to see Sird fully ending in a arc she hasn't even had one appearance in (HGSS) When Kusaka does decide to end Sird's story, I do expect her to actually play a role and not just pull a "Venom" and appear at the last second as the big bad of a story arc she's barely been in. Sird feels long overdue and I still think the Platinum arc is where she belonged to have her end story but I'm not Kusaka and he's written a amazing series with PokeSpecial so I won't dismiss Sird. I'm just sick of all these Sird theories and Sird herself. I'll probably be happy when she appears though, weird eh?
Parena or Serecham both equal Serena+Pancham!
And I definitely see what you mean and I agree with you. I started this thread to call attention to Sird's flaws and it looks like there are a lot of agreements and disagreements about the matter. And yes, I too want REALLY badly to see Sird's story wrapped up. For an original manga villain, she has lasted WAY too long. But just one thing I want answered from those who want to see Sird in B2W2 is how will that tie in with the plot? Doesn't it seem like too much of a stretch to have Sird affiliated with Team Plasma? What motive could she have in joining that group? And I think it's too much for Sird to be connected to Plasma after she is connected to all four villainous teams and I'm sure others think so too. If Sird is not affiliated with Plasma, then that would make her even more of a sore thumb as she would not fit in with the plot. Even for Kusaka, it would be kind of hard to fit Sird into B2W2 CONVENIENTLY. Just please someone answer this one question.
EDIT: Okay I finished reading Coronis's summaries. What I would like to know now is that if there isn't some greater evil behind this Arceus plot, then what is the situation currently and why does it requires an additional volume to cover up? Now that Giovanni is back, Archer and the generals' plans are complete so their motives are over. The only one who is in danger now is Petrel, the other generals were loyal all throughout. Arceus completed the creation of the Creation trio but I don't recall a time where a Pokemon under its own control had malicious intentions so there shouldn't be anyone in danger due to the creation. So I don't see why Giovanni, Lance and Pryce are looking so grim. The one who formerly controlled Arceus accomplished his goals so there is no longer any reason for him to cause any more havoc. If Giovanni doesn't want his minions to wreak havoc (and I seriously doubt he does anymore, because it seems as if Giovanni reformed for the most part, Lance said that he will no longer pursue his dreams in the GSC arc and Pryce's heart "melted" (he never attempted destruction anyway, just attempted to obtain Celebi to reunite his Lapras with his parents)) then what more problems could there possibly be. This brings me back to my statement above.
Last edited by Macromind101; 29th October 2012 at 3:43 AM.
-Iris teased Black about White (can't remember which month, but it's somewhere in the forum).
-Ruby and Sapphire are literally that, and that thing about Ruby's amnesia after the final battle (you know, about him forgetting Sapphire's confession) NEEDS to be solved at some point.
-Red and Yellow had their pinkies connected by that wire in the end of the Yellow arc.
Though the last one is a very subtle hint/nuance of Kusaka's part, and you need to know Japanese culture to understand. Just in case you don't know I will explain, in Japan it's said that soulmates have their pinkies connected by a red wire. This legend comes from the fact that there's an artery connecting the pinky to the heart. During the Meiji era (I think), some women cut their pinkies off and gave them to men as a promise of eternal love.
About how they will connect her with Team Plasma: N? Masuda explicitly said N's parents are unknown, and I don't think they will ever be brought up in the games, so Kusaka could use this and say Saque is his mother. Just a wild guess, but the only other possibility I can think of right now would be that she's Achroma's sister, but I still haven't read the arcs (I'm still in GSC and I don't have much time to read them), so I'm not an expert in the manga.
We have Unown's world (when summoned Arceus), the chink of time, Distortion World, and Dream World (maybe......)
Perhaps Mirage Island and Celebi with Ruby and Sapphire to go the world can be regarded as a parallel universe XD
Last edited by e9310103838; 30th October 2012 at 1:16 AM.
Oh God, there's way too much rebuttals made here. Okay I'll try to answer as much as I can.
The guys above me is correct. There were several instances where another dimension was portrayed in both the games and the manga. Kusaka definitely utilizes the multiverse theory.
And yes I do agree that unless Kusaka makes something out of it and fast, Sird's connection to Galactic is extremely unnecessary and non-contributing. And I have no idea why Sird did not appear in the Platinum chapter as that may have been a convenient place to finish her off. But it didn't. And since HGSS is using legendaries that Galactic tried to use, Sird's connection to Galactic can only be utilized at that point. If Sird is not utilized in HGSS, then what the heck was the point of making her last this long anyway? According to my memory, the last time Sird ever contributed to the plot in the manga was in the Emerald chapter where Archie explained who gave him the weapons. And that was, like, five years ago. I don't see the Cloaked Grunt and the missing Dexes as a contributer to the plot because the three got their Dexes back almost right after they were stolen and with hardly any fight. Point is, as of now Kusaka never made anything out of Sird's affiliation with Galactic that was a contributer to the plot. His last chance is in HGSS. And Sird being affiliated with Plasma is just too much. First, Sird is connected to too many villainous teams already. And it doesn't even look like she is loyal to any of them. And also, Kusaka pulled the affiliation thing once. So far, nothing came out of it (well there's still one more volume of HGSS left so still hope). I don't think Kusaka should get away with pulling it a second time when the first time already failed. It would bring on the rage of fans and too many panels would be filled up with useless material. And we all know that Kusaka never leaves any plotholes behind. I don't think he will do so this time. I have faith in him.
Okay, third versions and remake pairs. In Gen III and IV, the non-postgame plots are almost identical to their predecessors. Meaning Kusaka already covered them in previous chapters. The only elements plot-wise that are new to the third versions and remakes are either after the game or something to do with legendaries. The main version chapters span 8ish volumes because Kusaka needs to cover the new material. After he does that and he gets to the third version and remake chapters, he only needs to add in the new elements into the chapters. If he adds in the main plot, then it would just mirror the events of a previous chapter. (like, FRLG's plot would just repeat the history of the RGB chapter). Remakes and third versions do have lots of (and nice) enhancements but they don't take 8 volumes to cover. Three or four volumes is plenty enough to cover those extra features. If there is an element from a third version and/or remake not featured in the corresponding chapter in the manga, then please point it out to me because I haven't noticed one yet.
I don't think Kusaka and his work are suffering from rushing. Okay if the HGSS chapter ended like it did in the magazine runs then I would have to admit that he's rushing but he added an alternative ending and an additional volume. It's been more than two years since HGSS came out and I think people lost interest in playing the games when BW came out almost two years ago (well I'm sure some people play HGSS just for fun at times but they're probably not the main Pokemon priority of the general population). Kusaka is still working on HGSS and giving it a proper ending so I don't see how rushing is a problem here. I also think that Kusaka has good organization skills that allows him to keep his quality despite the time constraints. Right now the focus is the BW chapter whose volumes get released every month (is it volumes? or large chunks of magazine? either way). Kusaka keeps up with the monthly releases by devoting most of his time on it. As with past, unfinished projects, Kusaka probably spends an hour a week or so of his spare time on the overdue project when not working on his main project. I think the time difference between the releases of Volume 39 and 40/41 was almost a year. The time difference between the releases of Volume 41 and 42 was around three to four months. Kusaka knows what his main priorities are and keeps himself organized to not submit to time constraints. Platinum version's popularity decreased by the time HGSS came out. The last volume of Platinum came out a year after BW came out, two years after the popularity of Platinum decreased and three years after it was released. If Kusaka really submits to time constraints, then he would have ended the Platinum chapter two years before it did with a MUCH more disappointing ending (if it were even existent). The Platinum chapter came out fine imo, everything that needed to be added was added and the ending was satisfactory. The only disappointment was Sird not appearing but there may be reasons for that.
Last edited by Macromind101; 29th October 2012 at 9:51 PM.
But I don't see how there could be two dimensions with humans in the same universe, so if Saque is from another dimension, it would strictly be from another universe, and I don't see multiversal traveling being used as a plot point anywhere in this franchise unless they decide to make a crossover game with another franchise.
Plus, Handsome (Looker), a member of the International Police, is a character in BW, so it would be weird for Kusaka to not include him in the Generation V arcs. If anything, we could find out Saque is an international criminal, and this would explain her multiple connections across the world.
Either that, OR she was actually a member of Team Plasma and G-Cis sent her to other regions for something to do with controlling the world. We know that in the games G-Cis wants to control Isshu (Unova), but Kusaka could expand this in the manga to have him wanting to control the entire world.
Also, there are some plotholes in the manga. Namely the entirety of the Emerald arc. I haven't read the arc yet, so I only know the things I heard here. The plotholes are:
-Ookido (Oak) refused to give a Zukan (Dex) to Gold because it would just be a battle tool for him, but gives one to Emerald who also only sees it as a battle tool.
-Ookido gave Odamaki (Birch) a Zukan that already had a registered owner. Why?
-Gold had a copy of Guile's armor, even though he wouldn't have enough time to do one.
This is all I can remember so far.
Last edited by G-SANtos; 29th October 2012 at 10:11 PM.
I find that unlikely. If Sird's true affiliations are with Plasma, then why does she have a preference for Galactic over Rocket? It looked like her actions in FRLG and Emerald were all for Galactic. And if Sird was out to dominate each region, then why did she leave right after she did something that benefited Cyrus? If she didn't stick around after petrifying the Kanto Dexholders and Silver and giving the weapons to Archie then it doesn't look like she wanted to do anything more than to please Cyrus. If her true affiliations were with Plasma rather than Galactic, then why did Sird go to Galactic grunts rather than Plasma grunts after the events in FRLG? And when Crystal asked Archie who gave him the weapons, why did Archie stutter "Galac..." instead of "Plasma"? If Sird really was from Plasma, then she would have told Archie that she was from Galactic rather than Plasma (yes I know that Plasma didn't exist at the time but looking at the manga's continuity). I'm sure Kusaka had plans for Sird when he designed her and since no hint of Gen V was given at the time, I don't think Kusaka would completely redesign Sird's plot due to new game elements (well maybe slightly, I'm sure all recurring villains received that fate but not completely overhauled).
None of them are plotholes...they're not even mysteries, they were already explained. Oak didn't want to give Emerald a Pokedex at first, remember? It's been a while since I read Emerald so I may recall wrong but I think Oak gave Emerald the Pokedex after his reformation. For the second one, there are plenty of explanations for that (maybe there already is an explanation, my memory is fuzzy). Oak wanted Birch to choose who to give the Dex to or he wanted him to give it to Emerald when he was ready? And can you keep track of the time within the manga? And besides, he's Gold, he surprises everyone. Those you mentioned may come off as "goofs" but they're definitely not plotholes.
Okay then name some elements that should have been necessary in the third version/remake chapters that weren't included. Sird doesn't count because it's not too late to add her in (maybe Kusaka thought it wasn't the best time to finish her off). And in addition, if the remake and third version chapters each have as much volumes as their original pairing predecessors, then starting from Gen III there would have been 24ish volumes in one Generation. That is WAY too much and there will definitely be repetition and/or unnecessary elements in those large stacks of volumes. And the plots didn't differ too much at all. The only difference between the originals and the remakes is that the remakes have more Pokemon available and there are VERY few additional elements before post-game. And Kusaka adds in the post-game elements. They don't take more than four volumes to cover. Okay, and I admit that if Kusaka wanted to, then he could make the chapters longer. But I don't think the manga would benefit too much from a longer chapter with almost no game elements within it. The manga's job is to advertise the games and it's okay (it's necessary) to go off on a tangent for a bit but not so much that it's something completely different, like 20% game-derived and 80% original. I don't think rushing is the problem with the short chapters, it's that longer chapters are not necessary.
Last edited by Macromind101; 29th October 2012 at 10:47 PM.
So after that she goes back to Sinnoh with the information for Cyrus. She researches some more about team Galactic and after the DP arc she disappears to Unova to give Getsis the information she collected. Maybe he sends her off to another infiltration in the world tournament, but Getsis has no idea that Sird is just using him for her own plans or whatever.
Thought this theory sounds very ridiculous
Since it's Kusaka, I'm sure he'll come up with something. We were all surprised when Pryce made an appearance in the HGSS arc. Kusaka always amazes me when he comes with up with things for the arcs. In the DP and HGSS ending in the magazine were very disappointing to me, but Kusaka makes them much better in the tankoubon. I am sure kusaka has a reason for not finishing her off sooner, don't forget that Kusaka is limited and you can't pull a whole arc out of your head in one week. It's not like being a mangaka gives you a lot of free time.
RGB arc had 3 volumes just like FRLG arc and the Yellow arc had 4 volumes.
What about the embedded tower in HGSS? That one didn't appeared in the manga. In the Platinum arc they didn't show any sigh of the legendary bird trio. We haven't seen Steven either or Cynthia or any other gymleader from Sinnoh that did appear in the HGSS games and the Pokewalker system neither I am sure some people also expected some cameo's of Sinnoh's frontier brains. I am not sure if that's everything, but that's all I can remember what appeared in the games and not in the HGSS arc.
Enter the world of imagination:
Has anyone mentioned that the legend of Veilstone regarding the armour Sird offered Archie is connected to the Musketeer-Trio of Unova? I think we still have a lot to see of Sird...