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Thread: Why are the rivals so nice now?

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    Default Why are the rivals so nice now?

    In gen 1 and 2 your rival was douche bag. You hated him. Even after he lost Blue would still say talk sh*t and say smell you later. Beating him was better than beating the elite 4. In gen 2 your rival stole his starter and he was a douche too. In soul silver they tried making him out to be mean because he was misguided or whatever. I don't remember that in silver.

    I did not play gen 3 or 4 (except for soul silver but that hardly counts) and now your rival is a nice guy and your friend. When I picked up white 2 the other day I was tempted to name him douche but I stuck with Hugh instead. It turns out Hugh is not a douche, he just wants to be an awesome trainer. It's a respectable goal I guess but I didn't the same awesome feeling of victory when I battled him ONE TIME. I'm already at the fifth gym leader and we only battled once. I have a feeling we may have battled twice but I just can't remember. So why am I not battling a rival so much this time around. You battled with Cheren more than you do with Hugh.

    What happened between gen 2 and gen 5? Why is everyone so much nicer now? What happened to the rival you hated and took so much delight in defeating? Does anyone else feel this way? I want an actual rival, not a friend I feel sorry for. Honestly the only motivation I have for beating Hugh now is because I want to remain undefeated. Back in the old days though I could grind all day if it meant having a team powerful enough to beat my rival because I rather take the time to ensure my victory than lose to him. Just a random thought.

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    Feel sorry for?Why?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tonguetyd View Post
    Feel sorry for?Why?
    Becaus he cries about team plasma stealing his sister's purrloin. I don't feel too sorry for him but he is still not the douche I loved to hate in the old games. Don't get me wrong though, I'll never let the rival beat me.

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    Well hate is just the thing. It's meant to be a kids game and they wouldn't want to promote striving to defeat someone because of hate. Instead friendly rivalries are being encouraged now.

    However, I do prefer the douchier rivals because it honestly did feel extra good beating them :/ Also, Silver underwent excellent character development.
    Last edited by Poliwhirl'sMittens; 9th October 2012 at 5:35 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS]In soul silver they tried making him out to be mean because he was misguided or whatever. I don't remember that in silver.
    Then you're misremembering, as that WAS in the original Gold/Silver/Crystal as well. He started changing his ways after Lance kicked his butt in Mahogony Town.

    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    I want an actual rival, not a friend I feel sorry for.
    A rival isn't someone you hate. That's an enemy. A rival is someone who wants to accomplish the same goal you do so you compete against them. They don't have to be mean about it, in real life it's more preferable for rivals to show some good sportsmanship. Yes, douchey rivals can be fun in these games, but they shouldn't be the default personality for a rival.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 9th October 2012 at 6:33 PM.

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    It depends. 4th gen Barry is an example of a well written friendly rival, he's likeable and interesting but still obviously a rival. But yeah, Cheren, Bianca and especially the 3rd gen rival weren't fun at all. I do miss Gary-type rivals.

    (But I never really thought Silver was that great. Yes he went through character development but his original jerk characterisation was rubbish.)
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    Yeah, Silver being a jerk seemed kinda forced.
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    I agree; Barry was a good rival. He wasn't overly mean, but he was rude. Although most of the time he didn't mean it, which makes him more friendly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    Becaus he cries about team plasma stealing his sister's purrloin. I don't feel too sorry for him but he is still not the douche I loved to hate in the old games. Don't get me wrong though, I'll never let the rival beat me.
    "I'll get stronger and crush every single member of Team Plasma!"

    Does that sound like crying to you?

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    To be honest, the BW2 rival was only intrested in beating Team Plasma, not becoming as strong/better than you.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    [FONT=Comic Sans MS] In soul silver they tried making him out to be mean because he was misguided or whatever. I don't remember that in silver.
    That's because you are deluding yourself. The dialogue from the old GSC is 99.5% identical. The only new dialogue is from new scenes such as the Arceus/Celebi bonuses, new characters from Gen 3 and 4 showing up, etc...

    I did not play gen 3 or 4
    And this should pretty much end the thread.

    If you want to play only gens with jerk rivals, there ya go! You've had two generations of them.

    But Pokemon, for the better, has diversified them a bit. As Gen 3-5 require you to work together with your rival, it wouldn't make sense for you to do it if you were bitter enemies.
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    Just remember some of them are your childhood freinds/negihbors!

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    Hugh might be an even bigger joke than Barry...
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    I think they make your rival nicer because no one likes mean characters.I mean people could quit playing Pokemon because they are fed up with the mean characters/rivals.So now they try to make them nicer so people stay interested in the games.But when they make them nicer they still try to make them act like there stronger and tougher than you are.They also try and make the rival sound all cool and all kinds of that stuff.



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    I liked Cheren as a rival. I like how he deconstructed what it meant to be the Champion and I liked Bianca because she didn't have any desire to be a champion.

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    I think Nintendo would rather promote friendly competition and rivalries rather than fighting someone because you hate them, but I could be wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    In gen 1 and 2 your rival was douche bag. You hated him. Even after he lost Blue would still say talk sh*t and say smell you later. Beating him was better than beating the elite 4. In gen 2 your rival stole his starter and he was a douche too. In soul silver they tried making him out to be mean because he was misguided or whatever. I don't remember that in silver.

    You didn't hate them, Blue was your friend (believe it or not), and Silver just happened to keep crossing your path, and he only wanted to beat you.

    I did not play gen 3 or 4 (except for soul silver but that hardly counts) and now your rival is a nice guy and your friend. When I picked up white 2 the other day I was tempted to name him douche but I stuck with Hugh instead. It turns out Hugh is not a douche, he just wants to be an awesome trainer. It's a respectable goal I guess but I didn't the same awesome feeling of victory when I battled him ONE TIME. I'm already at the fifth gym leader and we only battled once. I have a feeling we may have battled twice but I just can't remember. So why am I not battling a rival so much this time around. You battled with Cheren more than you do with Hugh.

    You battle Hugh four times before the E4, the reason why you feel like you battled Cheren more is beause you had 2/3 Rivals in BW.

    What happened between gen 2 and gen 5? Why is everyone so much nicer now? What happened to the rival you hated and took so much delight in defeating? Does anyone else feel this way? I want an actual rival, not a friend I feel sorry for. Honestly the only motivation I have for beating Hugh now is because I want to remain undefeated. Back in the old days though I could grind all day if it meant having a team powerful enough to beat my rival because I rather take the time to ensure my victory than lose to him. Just a random thought.


    Why do you have delight in beating them? Beating Blue isn't exactly a reward.
    You want to see a real Rival? Go play Platinum, your rival there is the perfect example of what a Rival should be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Covert Cactus View Post
    In gen 1 and 2 your rival was douche bag. You hated him. Even after he lost Blue would still say talk sh*t and say smell you later. Beating him was better than beating the elite 4. In gen 2 your rival stole his starter and he was a douche too. In soul silver they tried making him out to be mean because he was misguided or whatever. I don't remember that in silver.

    I did not play gen 3 or 4 (except for soul silver but that hardly counts) and now your rival is a nice guy and your friend. When I picked up white 2 the other day I was tempted to name him douche but I stuck with Hugh instead. It turns out Hugh is not a douche, he just wants to be an awesome trainer. It's a respectable goal I guess but I didn't the same awesome feeling of victory when I battled him ONE TIME. I'm already at the fifth gym leader and we only battled once. I have a feeling we may have battled twice but I just can't remember. So why am I not battling a rival so much this time around. You battled with Cheren more than you do with Hugh.

    What happened between gen 2 and gen 5? Why is everyone so much nicer now? What happened to the rival you hated and took so much delight in defeating? Does anyone else feel this way? I want an actual rival, not a friend I feel sorry for. Honestly the only motivation I have for beating Hugh now is because I want to remain undefeated. Back in the old days though I could grind all day if it meant having a team powerful enough to beat my rival because I rather take the time to ensure my victory than lose to him. Just a random thought.
    A rival doesn't have to be someone you hate. Rivalry comes in different forms. What you want really is irrelevant, it's what Gamefreak decides that matters. You may not like friendly rivals, but not everyone feels the same way.

    Also, Hugh isn't all that nice, from what I've seen of him so far, he's rather pushy and doesn't know how to answer the phone right(He answers be saying "What?").

    Also, while you may not battle Hugh as much as other rivals, you see him far more and when you factor in tagging up, he pretty much beats out every other rival. They simply decided to have a different take on the rivalry this time, instead of battling all the time you work with each other and get stronger with each other.

    Also, Cheren wasn't that nice either, he wasn't a jerk but he came off arrogant, thinking he knew everything. Bianca was nice though. Barry was hyperactive and wasn't exactly "so nice", he kept finning you, that's not very nice, and that was during Diamond, you don't get as rich in that game as you do in B/W/B2/W2. As for generation 3, it never really was rival focused at all, there wasn't anyone rude, but again, simply a different take on rivalry, would have been nice if they fleshed Wally out some more and kept the other playable character as a rival, at less I would have enjoyed it more.

    So yah, they aren't really all that nice, they aren't complete jerks but they still have their own rudeness to them in some form, aside from Bianca and generation 3 rivals.
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    It's simply because they don't want to reference bullying... Do you know how bad bullying is these days?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Marbi Z View Post
    It's simply because they don't want to reference bullying... Do you know how bad bullying is these days?
    That makes sense actually. I figured it was just to give rival's more character development than Blue did (i.e. just the douche that goes around making fun of you).
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reshiram77 View Post
    I think Nintendo would rather promote friendly competition and rivalries rather than fighting someone because you hate them...
    Moral of the story. People vastly overestimate what Gary and Silver actually were; Gary was jerk for the fun of, not an enemy or trying to really ruin your life (HE EXPECTS YOU TO BEAT THE ELITE 4. That's really all that needs to be said.), and Silver was feeding himself empowering garbage that was conveniently reinforced by Team Rocket's incompetence in battle and rightly shattered when Lance hands his hide back to him.

    Barry is really more in tune with the role, since he has aspirations of greatness, but doesn't feel threatened by your beating him. You are his yardstick, in much the same way you're Gary's; Gary just doesn't talk about it that way.


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    Is it bad that I had more satisfaction beating Blue and Silver than Team Rocket? :/

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    I like the idea of them being good actually But isn't bad for them to be mean and stuff...They should do the idea of yer rival as yer older sister or brother or something, nya~

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    Pokemon was meant for the target audience which were children to pre-teens. Would you rather have them say "Wow you beat me! Never talk to me again."

    At least they have personality.

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    I prefer the new, more friendly rivals.

    I admit, even being a jerk, Silver is my favorite of the rivals, but Blue was nothing but a joke. I'd take Cheren, Bianca or Hugh instead of him any day.

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