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Thread: The Doctor Who Club v.4

  1. #201

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    That was fantastic. Best Christmas ever.

        Spoiler:


    The titles are very cool. I love how funky and cheesy they are. I would have preferred a greater influence from the Classic series in the new theme tune, though I guess I'll make do with the warbling-thing (I really don't know what to call it - it's the noise heard right after Matt Smith's name appears. :P).

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        Spoiler:


    -The Eleventh/Rory Williams

  2. #202
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    Eee, I really love the new opening sequence! The theme tune is a nice blend of the recent one and the classic ones (or at least what sounds like classic ones to my relatively-untrained ears), and the visuals are stunning and beautiful. I don't even mind the Doctor's-face thing, because it's done subtly enough that it doesn't come across as particularly forced and creepy like I feel the classic versions kind of do. And they even fixed the timing of Matt Smith's name appearing exactly as the main melody kicks in, which I was irrationally disappointed that they changed slightly for the series 7 part 1 version! :3

    Meanwhile aaaaaa I loved the episode so much.

        Spoiler:- The Snowmen:


        Spoiler:- The future:


    ...Is it really going to be April before the series begins again? D: But I thought Steven Moffat was trying to shift the airing period of the series into winter? Having it in April would be going right back around to where it started.

    (Okay so I'm mostly complaining because I don't want to wait that long, not because I'm opposed to keeping the more summerish airing period, but.)

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  3. #203
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    The face in the intro is a bit creepy… unsettling...

        Spoiler:- The Snowmen:


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  4. #204
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    Quick question concerning the new companion.
        Spoiler:- Question-y thingy (Not meant to be serious, but if you take it serious, you take it serious.):
    As to what once, it now is. For this my retirement tour, let us commence, forevermore, forevermore.

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Armando Payne View Post
    Quick question concerning the new companion.
        Spoiler:- Question-y thingy (Not meant to be serious, but if you take it serious, you take it serious.):
    I don't know, seems plasible, but that was Rory's thing.
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  6. #206
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    Actually, that is something I want to know:     Spoiler:- Christmas spoilers:

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  7. #207
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        Spoiler:- WPS:


    Oh, I wish there were more episodes sooner than April... I'm so excited.
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  8. #208

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        Spoiler:- WPS:


    Quote Originally Posted by elyvorg View Post
    ...Is it really going to be April before the series begins again? D: But I thought Steven Moffat was trying to shift the airing period of the series into winter? Having it in April would be going right back around to where it started.
    Well, fiftieth anniversary specials will be airing throughout the year, it seems, so the rest of the year will be devoted to them. Thinking about it, it'd be somewhat difficult to air a full series in what would be considered autumn/winter. How would they slot fourteen episodes (a series and the Christmas special) into the end of the year? They'd have to start it in August, at the latest.

    A trailer for 2013 on BBC One was released yesterday, and unsurprisingly, it features some clips of Series 7 Part 2. And by "clips", I mean two. Still, it's something.

    OK, there's definitely something going on between the Doctor and Clara. Someone get River.

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    I am just wondering whether this may be a slight plot hole for the characters? Hear me out. Basically, most (long-term) companions have had a series or two to get used to the TARDIS, the Doctor, and how it all works, with the end of series finales pushing their boundaries a little. But think about this. They're gonna have to make the 50th anniversary episodes HUGE (by indication of my writing XD) and the season will pretty much revolve around this. That means that his latest companion (her name is Clara, right?) will have to get used to stuff pretty quickly, which may make the season, and her entry into the world of the Doctor... lose it's magic, a little? I don't know... PS who else hated that the daleks forgot the doctor!?!?! I thought that killed the whole Daleks.
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  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by VampirateMace View Post
    [dying a lot] was Rory's thing.
    Well, actually, about that...

    (This isn't specifically directed at you; this is just something I'd been waiting for an opportunity to talk about for some time now. Don't mind me.)

    Everyone acts like Rory's big thing is that he's "died" loads of times. But the thing is, at least up until The Angels Take Manhattan (in which Moffat gleefully saw Rory off the show by killing him three more times), the Doctor, just in his Eleventh incarnation alone, had actually "died" at least as many times as Rory had.

    Let's define a "death" as one of two possible situations. Type 1: genuinely does die or at least gets very, very close to it but is later brought back in some way. Type 2: other characters and/or the audience are led to believe that he must have died until it turns out he never did.

    So, Rory's apparent deaths:

    -Turned to dust by alien-infested old people in Amy's Choice; Type 2, as it turned out to be a dream.
    -Killed by a Silurian in Cold Blood then erased by a crack; Type 1.
    -The Last Centurion was apparently killed rescuing the Pandorica from a fire in the Blitz; Type 2.
    -Shot and put in a body bag by Canton in Day of the Moon; Type 2, although Amy and River were also apparently killed by Canton, so this is hardly Rory's unique tendency to die at work here.
    -Drowned in The Curse of the Black Spot and it seemed for a moment that Amy's CPR wasn't going to resuscitate him; Type 1.
    -Apparently tortured, driven mad and killed by House in The Doctor's Wife which thankfully turned out to be Amy hallucinating; Type 2.
    ...and I think that's it. His tendency to die kind of disappears after series 6 part 1.
    (If these six are all the deaths we count, and then we add the three from TATM, the last of these being him truly, finally dying, Rory apparently has nine lives. xP)

    Meanwhile, for the Doctor's apparent deaths, I count seven, one more than pre-Angels Rory:

    -Shot by a Dalek twelve minutes in the future in The Big Bang; turns out he was lying about future-him being dead, so Type 2.
    -Flew the Pandorica into the exploding TARDIS and was erased from the universe; Type 1, as he genuinely did die here and was only brought back by Amy.
    -If we count The Sarah-Jane Adventures (which we should, because it's canon), then there's his appearance in Death of the Doctor, which is about - well, guess.
    -Shot at Lake Silencio at the beginning of series 6; I spent the whole series thinking this was going to be a Type 1 and then it turned out to be a Type 2.
    -A Ganger version of him died in The Almost People, which should count, because despite being made of Flesh it was still him, so Type 1 without the coming-back part.
    -Poisoned by Melody in Let's Kill Hitler and had pretty much got as far as dying before River decided to bring him back; Type 1, much like Rory's drowning-but-not-quite.
    -In the prequel of The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe, is apparently killed in an exploding spaceship; there were no companions around to believe that he was dead, but from the prequel alone it appeared that there was no way out of that and he must have died, so Type 2. Sure, we viewers knew he wasn't actually going to die, but from an in-universe perspective it seemed like he had, so this should still count.

    I suppose the reason people don't actively think of the Doctor as dying as much as Rory is because, as he's the main character, we know he definitely can't die on any of these occasions so they don't really register as "deaths" the way they do with Rory, where there was always the chance that maybe this is genuine and they're killing off a companion, as that can sometimes happen. But still - in-universe, where this isn't a fictional work with a main character and in theory anyone can potentially die, the Doctor has appeared to do so just as often as Rory has.

    I'm not precisely trying to argue this or anything here, just pointing it out because I find it interesting and not many people seem to have noticed. Though I will say that I would definitely be happy if they kept up the Doctor's tendency of "dying" somewhat often, as that usually results in pretty interesting situations. (By which I mean that the Doctor is adorable when he thinks he's about to die because despite everything he still does fear death.)


        Spoiler:- Clara:


    Quote Originally Posted by THEIRONDONUT View Post
    I am just wondering whether this may be a slight plot hole for the characters? Hear me out. Basically, most (long-term) companions have had a series or two to get used to the TARDIS, the Doctor, and how it all works, with the end of series finales pushing their boundaries a little. But think about this. They're gonna have to make the 50th anniversary episodes HUGE (by indication of my writing XD) and the season will pretty much revolve around this. That means that his latest companion (her name is Clara, right?) will have to get used to stuff pretty quickly, which may make the season, and her entry into the world of the Doctor... lose it's magic, a little? I don't know...
    I don't think that's anything to worry about. The anniversary specials aren't part of series 7, they're extra episodes coming after series 7 is done. The series itself has eight episodes left to go, which is plenty of time for Clara to grow into a full-fledged companion without it needing to feel rushed. I'd say it's usually only a new companion's first three or so episodes in which they particularly feel like a something of a newbie.

    PS who else hated that the daleks forgot the doctor!?!?! I thought that killed the whole Daleks.
    I don't see why some people are so bothered about this - if the writers ever need the Daleks back at their full ferocity, they'll find a way to have the Daleks remember the Doctor; it's as simple as that. In the meantime, I for one rather like the plot thread of the Doctor erasing himself from the universe, and it was the Daleks forgetting him that started off all of that.


    ...so, it really definitely is April-ish? :< Oh well - less than four months to go!

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  11. #211
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    Yeah, I guess you''re right, just made me feel a little dead inside. Anyways, john smith out
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  12. #212
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    That's fair elyvorg, I never really thought Rory died as often as Kenny myself, that's just how the Blank of Dr. Who Specials billed him. But I think you got it right when you said it doesn't feel like the Doctor is in much danger of dying dying because; he's the main character so if he dies the show's name doesn't make sense, he can regenerate, even if he did die-die Jenny (or is it Genny?) carries all his DNA, and a younger version can always show up (as we've seen). But when Rory died, we were never sure.

    I do hope the Daleks make a return, they're so absurd and threatening at the same time.
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  13. #213
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    So for once someone over here got it right; the Christmas special aired here on boxing day! I was in a caravan watching a TV with pretty crappy reception but I somehow managed to watch the whole episode. Although I did have to be still as a weeping angel to not make the TV reception any worse. I only got back from my no-internet holiday a few days ago . . . but whatever, here's stuff.

    So firstly, I'm really pissed off at Moffat for pulling that same trick twice. With Oswin I was okay with the fact that he killed her - we were told the new companion appeared at Christmas so it was a bit silly to think Oswin the new companion - but with Clara I was sure that she was going to stick around. Then she was killed. I feel like Moffat is purposely targeting DW's more loyal fans with Clara/Oswin. Think about it. Only someone who knew JLC was gonna play the new companion would get extra attached to Oswin, and only someone who had read that the new companion would appear at Christmas would get extra attached to Clara. Whilst the new companion - whatever name she's going to go by this time - did technically appear in that episode, I'm still very annoyed.

    In itself though, I kinda found the episode to be mediocre. I've found that I've never really liked Moffat's Christmas specials that much, for some reason. This one was no exception. Clara was awesome, Strax and Jenny and Vastra (are those the right names, I've forgotten!) were entertaining, and the Doctor's situation was interesting . . . but the plot itself, the snowmen, I found very boring. It was nothing special and, most of all, it didn't feel very Christmas-y to me. It was very plain, I reckon.

    I mean it's been a week since of watched the episode (and a week since it's aired, hence the no-spoilers) so everything is not fresh in my brain, but I don't remember it being anything spectacular. Aside from Clara. I remember I loved Clara. And "it's smaller on the outside" ahaha.

    So I'm really curious as to how these three (and possibly more) versions of Clara Oswin Oswald work. There's a past, present and future version of this girl. She obviously has some connection to the Doctor, considering her last words were the same each time ("Run you clever boy . . . and remember"). There has to be some link other than that they're the same person. It's not just coincidence that those were her exact last words.

    This also brings me to this: is present-day Clara destined to die? Clara and Oswin both did and said the exact same thing as they died. I wouldn't be surprised, not at all, if Clara's last words when she inevitably leaves are "run you clever boy . . . and remember". It just find it strange that the past and future versions of her would die and the present one would outlive them. Something's up and I'm dying to know what it is!

    Also, my character title . . . what becomes of it? Right now I've got "Oswin Oswald" but Clara Oswin Oswald and Oswin Oswald are the same person but aren't the same person but are the same person, you know? Do I have a claim on Oswin from AotD or on all thee, or more, incarnations of her?

    Another thought: was Oswin's full name Clara Oswin Oswald, and she just used her middle name as her first name? Because judging from Clara's gravestone I think that's the case. I mean present Clara and past Clara go by the name Clara, so they share it, I don't see why Oswin wouldn't share it too.

    I just can't with Moffat and his stories.

    kjt/Oswin Oswald/Clara Oswin Oswald/present Clara/possible future incarnations/whoever she actually is.

    I didn't know what I was getting into picking this character title

    EDIT: I completely forgot that I got my username changed! I'm not kjt anymore, I'm Becoming! Er, elyvorg, can you update my character title thingy to show my username change?

    Becoming/Oswin Oswald/Clara Oswin Oswald/present Clara/possible future incarnations/whoever she actually is.
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    I had no idea there was a Doctor Who section here! Awesome! That said, here's my join form:

    Why do you like Doctor Who?
    Doctor Who is my favorite non-Joss Whedon show, easily my 3rd but possibly my 2nd favorite show of all time. (Sorry, but Firefly takes the honor of favorite.) What I love most about it is the writing. The dialogs are always deep and meaningful, not frivolous like in most shows these days. They like to lead the audience to make certain conclusions and it usually works. The plots are always well written as well. I'm more a fan of Davies' work but Moffat is no slouch. The show has definitely gotten more "timey-wimey" on his watch and that's not a bad thing. If anything I have to watch those episodes more to follow them and who doesn't love more Doctor Who! They say that Doctor Who is a kids show and I agree, in a way. When I watch Doctor Who it makes me feel like I'm 8 years old again. I feel that wonder and enjoyment that gets lost as we grow to adulthood and I loose the cynicism that I have when watching other shows and movies. Basically I love that I get so caught up in the emotions and plots that I completely forget to think and rationalize what's happening. It's just a great show to watch no matter how old you are.
    Who's your favourite Doctor?
    David Tennant. Easily. He was the most fun, I loved the outfit, and he sold everything he said like it was completely real. But more than that, the reason that I love the Tennant years the most, and it took me a while to figure this out, if the families. All of the Doctor's companions had families that grounded the story and always brought it back to Earth. Even the simple fact of the companion going with the Doctor had ramifications and you saw that and felt it. The tension between Rose and Micky as she falls more and more for the Doctor. The subterfuge that Martha's family uses and is used on them to get to the Doctor. The pain and hurt that both Donn'a mother and grandfather go through watching Donna save the universe and then be unable to know about it. Plus the fact that they were all just normal families. Broken, dysfunctional, normal families with normal problems and one very amazing thing in common: David Tennant's 10th Doctor. And the most important thing: he wears Converse All Stars. Nuf Sed!
    Desired character title?
    Well, upon a cursory glance at the list, it looks as though no one has taken the Doctor yet. I don't know if that's an option but if it is I'd like that. If it isn't an option then I choose as my second option Micky the Idiot. I thought about Ricky his alternate universe twin but Micky the Idiot won out. So if I can't have the Doctor then Micky the Idiot.

    Thank you for your consideration. I know I'm the man for the job!
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    Quote Originally Posted by MasterGohan View Post
    I had no idea there was a Doctor Who section here! Awesome! That said, here's my join form:


    Who's your favourite Doctor?
    David Tennant
    I have to agree with you, sorry, just wanted to let you know that i'm of the same mind on everything you said
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    Thank you. I've watched Doctor Who for years (I started watching during the first year of David Tennant ... which probably had something to do with my decision) and have loved from my first episode, and I like Matt Smith as the Doctor, I just don't feel the attachment to Amy and Rory like I did to the previous companions. Matt Smith is a wonderfully eccentric Doctor, which I was worried about, but his companions and some of the stories don't have the weight that they did with Tennant. I always felt like the world really was ending when the Doctor and Rose were in trouble, but lately I don't feel the urgency I used to. Still good though. I watch every episode like an addict. But its good to hear that people feel the same way as I do on a few things.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Becoming View Post
    This also brings me to this: is present-day Clara destined to die? Clara and Oswin both did and said the exact same thing as they died. I wouldn't be surprised, not at all, if Clara's last words when she inevitably leaves are "run you clever boy . . . and remember". It just find it strange that the past and future versions of her would die and the present one would outlive them. Something's up and I'm dying to know what it is!
    Yes, everybody dies. Even the Doctor is mortal. Even Jack/Boe died died.

    I wouldn't think of it as the Present day Clara outliving the Past or Future versions... On one hand, you can't outlive someone if you aren't alive at the same time, and on the other, they're all the same person, and you can't outlive yourself. Also, we don't know her exact age in the Present... What if Victorian Clara is 26, and he goes to recruit 23 yr old Present Clara? He's can do that, he's got a time machine, and it wouldn't have to mean breaking any of the timeline crossing rules.
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    Quote Originally Posted by VampirateMace View Post
    Yes, everybody dies. Even the Doctor is mortal. Even Jack/Boe died died.

    I wouldn't think of it as the Present day Clara outliving the Past or Future versions... On one hand, you can't outlive someone if you aren't alive at the same time, and on the other, they're all the same person, and you can't outlive yourself. Also, we don't know her exact age in the Present... What if Victorian Clara is 26, and he goes to recruit 23 yr old Present Clara? He's can do that, he's got a time machine, and it wouldn't have to mean breaking any of the timeline crossing rules.
    I really don't think that the Dalek Oswin and the Victorian Oswin are the same. I mean, how could they be? I suppose it could be like with River where the first time we saw her was when she died so we would always know how Oswin will be killed. But then why did she not recognize the Doctor in the future? And how can the same (non-Time Lord) person die multiple times? I think its going to be much more dramatic and convoluted than that. If Steven Moffat has shown us anything its that he really likes to over-think things (not in a bad way) so I think this is going to be a far from simple. I can't wait to find out though.
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    Hmm, I seem to timeline your viewing pattern of doctor who. Remarkable. But I wonder how Oswin could be around the doctor in the asylum without creating some sort of Paradox, as it kinda clashes the timeline... But maybe I'm just overcomplicating things
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    Quote Originally Posted by THEIRONDONUT View Post
    Hmm, I seem to timeline your viewing pattern of doctor who. Remarkable. But I wonder how Oswin could be around the doctor in the asylum without creating some sort of Paradox, as it kinda clashes the timeline... But maybe I'm just overcomplicating things
    If they were two different people it solves that problem. But in the spirit of looking at all angles, he didn't cross his own time stream or stop something that had already happened from happening (like with Rose saving her father). Also he didn't actually have contact with Oswin. She was technically already dead as she had already been converted into a Dalek and he never touched her (that I remember; correct me if I'm wrong). And since Past Oswin and Dalek Oswin weren't actually in the same time period (like when the Master ruled earth) and they didn't have contact with each other (like Rose holding herself) then not paradox was created. So they could still potentially be the same person. But I hold that they aren't because future Oswin had no memory of the Doctor.
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    yeah that seems to work, thanks for clearing that up.

    (PS, have you been officially inducted yet?)
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    I don't think so but I think I will be. I've already contributed to the discussion (mainly because I love talking about Doctor Who) so I'm fairly confident I will be. Who decides that?
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    Elyvorg I think, and I think the eleventh also is a mod for the club. Well, let me know when you're officially inducted, so I can give you an official welcome!
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    I've known how I wanted the Angels take Manhattan to finish ever since I first saw it:

        Spoiler:
    Jackpot!

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I've known how I wanted the Angels take Manhattan to finish ever since I first saw it:

        Spoiler:
    I agree so much. I thought it soooo unnecessary to do that to them, also I found it unfair that they had been through so much turmoil, just to be killed off by a race that, really, probably shouldn't have existed. Wait, how did they even get taken back after they fell into the crack of time-wimey stuff? I forgot
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    I am a proud member of Join the fight.
    Credit goes to Avenger Angel for making the RP's awesome banner. Thanks Bron and Neo for the awesome RP

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