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Thread: Create &/or Change Anything & Everything Competitive Edition!

  1. #726
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    The point of the Area Fields was to boost Pokemon in their natural environment. Not to boost the moves they used, if I did that then they would be nothing but over-glorified Weather. By changing that you are changing the whole point of the mechanic.
    But the natural environment in which a battle is set should only affect mechanics that absolutely require it as part of their effect and aesthetics in the first place.

    Some Types can hit more Types for super effective damage(2 for Steel and 1 for Poison). Some Types resist more Types than other Types(11 + an immunity for Steel while 3 for Poison). By that same logic there is no balance in the Types either. Some Types just get more benefit than others they all can't have the same amount of benefits and hindrances.
    Type balance isn't solely governed by type matchups. Tools that types have access to, like Fire's burning, Dark's variety, and Poison's poisoning, are also factored in. The selling point of Steel is that it resists many types, whereas the selling point for Poison is that it has access to the poison status ailment. In turn, the strengths and weaknesses of the types cannot be used to justify inherent type imbalance in a new mechanic.





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  2. #727
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    But the natural environment in which a battle is set should only affect mechanics that absolutely require it as part of their effect and aesthetics in the first place.
    Yes, so a Water Type or Electric Type is required in order to benefit from Ocean. So the person using the mechanic would or could choose to build their whole team around that.


    Type balance isn't solely governed by type matchups. Tools that types have access to, like Fire's burning, Dark's variety, and Poison's poisoning, are also factored in. The selling point of Steel is that it resists many types, whereas the selling point for Poison is that it has access to the poison status ailment. In turn, the strengths and weaknesses of the types cannot be used to justify inherent type imbalance in a new mechanic.
    It's basically the same thing. It can be justified. The selling point of Ocean to work as how an actual Ocean would be applied in the Pokemon world. Each of the Area Fields have tools that they are access to as well, Like City's poisoning, Desert's speed drop and confusion, Darkness sleep etc.


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  3. #728

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    i'll post an example:

    conkelldurr uses drain punch on a pokemon with my previously stated ability.

    if z = conkeldurr's attack, y = the ability activating, x = the ability preventing the pokemon from being hit, and o = the pokemon being hit, it would look something like this:

    z (no y) o

    if the ability triggers:

    z (y) x

    but, if conkelldurr uses ice punch, f = freeze activating, so the outcome could look like this:

    z (f) (no y) o

    if the ability and freeze chance both activate, it looks like this:

    z (f) y (because of a condition restricting the target from attacking) o

    tryed to simplify that.
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  4. #729
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    Yes, so a Water Type or Electric Type is required in order to benefit from Ocean. So the person using the mechanic would or could choose to build their whole team around that.

    It's basically the same thing. It can be justified. The selling point of Ocean to work as how an actual Ocean would be applied in the Pokemon world. Each of the Area Fields have tools that they are access to as well, Like City's poisoning, Desert's speed drop and confusion, Darkness sleep etc.
    I don't think you understood what I meant.

    The environment in which a battle takes place is a mechanic that causes something else to have an effect, not a mechanic that has an effect itself. The environment causes Nature Power, Secret Power, and Camouflage to use a move, inflict a status ailment, or make the user change type respectively; having the environment directly affect the performance of Pokémon violates this.

    It's quite intuitive that every mechanic that's made provides benefits and hindrances to something, but the real problem lies in exactly what mechanic those benefits and hindrances are based off of.

    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of the Forums View Post
    i'll post an example:

    conkelldurr uses drain punch on a pokemon with my previously stated ability.

    if z = conkeldurr's attack, y = the ability activating, x = the ability preventing the pokemon from being hit, and o = the pokemon being hit, it would look something like this:

    z (no y) o

    if the ability triggers:

    z (y) x

    but, if conkelldurr uses ice punch, f = freeze activating, so the outcome could look like this:

    z (f) (no y) o

    if the ability and freeze chance both activate, it looks like this:

    z (f) y (because of a condition restricting the target from attacking) o

    tryed to simplify that.
    I don't think the ability actually can work like that.
    Under normal circumstances, if a Pokémon uses an offensive move on a Pokémon with that ability, and the ability has the possibility of negating that move's damage, then the ability would have to trigger before the attack successfully deals damage (y, then z). The offensive move having a chance of doing some sort of secondary effect doesn't affect when the ability potentially triggers.





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  5. #730
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    The environment in which a battle takes place is a mechanic that causes something else to have an effect, not a mechanic that has an effect itself. The environment causes Nature Power, Secret Power, and Camouflage to use a move, inflict a status ailment, or make the user change type respectively; having the environment directly affect the performance of Pokémon violates this.
    Weather also is also a mechanic that causes something else to have an effect and not a mechanic that has an effect itself. Nothing says the environment can't directly affect the performance of a Pokemon. Realistically speaking the environment would indeed affect the performance of a Pokemon. A Fish Pokemon like Goldeen would do much better on an Ocean Area rather than the City, A Bird Pokemon like Starly would do better in a Sky Area than the Ocean etc.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    Weather also is also a mechanic that causes something else to have an effect and not a mechanic that has an effect itself. Nothing says the environment can't directly affect the performance of a Pokemon. Realistically speaking the environment would indeed affect the performance of a Pokemon. A Fish Pokemon like Goldeen would do much better on an Ocean Area rather than the City, A Bird Pokemon like Starly would do better in a Sky Area than the Ocean etc.
    I guess you could say that.

    But what I've been saying the entire time is that if the area fields are going to affect every type, they should affect every type equally to prevent some types of Pokémon from getting too overpowered. :/





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    I guess you could say that.

    But what I've been saying the entire time is that if the area fields are going to affect every type, they should affect every type equally to prevent some types of Pokémon from getting too overpowered. :/
    Can you give me an example because from what I can tell each Type except Psychic has the attack and Sp.attack 10% boost on a field.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    Can you give me an example because from what I can tell each Type except Psychic has the attack and Sp.attack 10% boost on a field.
    The ratio of benefits to hindrances should be the same between every type. For example, both of the following work:

    [indent]Normal: 1 benefit, 1 hindrance
    Fire: 2 benefits, 2 hindrances
    Psychic: 0 benefits, 0 hindrances

    Normal: 2 benefits, 1 hindrance
    Fire: 2 benefits, 1 hindrance
    Water: 2 benefits, 1 hindrance





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    The ratio of benefits to hindrances should be the same between every type. For example, both of the following work:

    [indent]Normal: 1 benefit, 1 hindrance
    Fire: 2 benefits, 2 hindrances
    Psychic: 0 benefits, 0 hindrances

    Normal: 2 benefits, 1 hindrance
    Fire: 2 benefits, 1 hindrance
    Water: 2 benefits, 1 hindrance
    But isn't it better that they have more hindrance than benefit so they are not over powered? Almost all the Types have 2 hindrances with a few exceptions that have 3 and 1


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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    But isn't it better that they have more hindrance than benefit so they are not over powered? Almost all the Types have 2 hindrances with a few exceptions that have 3 and 1
    Well, as long as the ratios are the same between each type, it doesn't really matter. Normal could have one benefit and two hindrances, and Fire could have two benefits and four hindrances, and all other types could have that ratio, and it'd still be totally fine. (:





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  11. #736

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    bluntness is needed here.

    those weather field effects suck. they are unneeded, and are overpowered. the biggest problem i can see is that it boosts the attacking stats of pokemon who's types are compatible, when it should boost the power of that type of move. otherwise, in the ocean, my slowbro could use fire blast, and it would do more damage then if he wasn't in the freakin' water.

    sorry if i offended you, it just needed to be said.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of the Forums View Post
    bluntness is needed here.

    those weather field effects suck. they are unneeded, and are overpowered. the biggest problem i can see is that it boosts the attacking stats of pokemon who's types are compatible, when it should boost the power of that type of move. otherwise, in the ocean, my slowbro could use fire blast, and it would do more damage then if he wasn't in the freakin' water.

    sorry if i offended you, it just needed to be said.
    Than I shall respond with bluntness as well. No they do not suck. They are called AREA FIELDS, not "weather fields". You just can't accept change and the level of complexity it brings(To be honest i'm surprised Game Freak has not developed something similar to this by now). They may be unneeded but they are certainly not over powered, if anything it's under powered. As I said before if I made it so it boosted the Move Type rather than the Pokemon Type it would just be over glorified weather and change the whole point of the mechanic. We already have plenty things that increase based on Move Type but we don't have anything to boost Pokemon Type. It wouldn't even make sense if it boosted Move Type rather than Pokemon Type. At this point I'm done with the Area Fields anyway, I've perfected them and there is nothing else that needs to be changed, so either you like it or you don't.


    Edit: @Wishing Star Thank u for at least trying to understand and help with the Area Fields instead of being rude and just belittling it like certain individuals. even if you don't necessarily like them you still gave your thoughts in a non-judgmental manner.


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  13. #738

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    why don't you stop targeting me before you get infracted? hydreigon could use another abilit. i understand his current one though, and i'm not saying its bad.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghosts of the Forums View Post
    why don't you stop targeting me before you get infracted? hydreigon could use another abilit. i understand his current one though, and i'm not saying its bad.
    No one was targeting anyone. It's one thing to say you don't like the concept or the idea itself, it's a another to be blatantly rude about it and simply say "it sucks".



    New Move: Tutor

    Type: / Power: -- / Accuracy: 100% / PP: 5 / Target: Single adjacent Pokemon / Category: / Priority: 0
    "The user teaches the target one of its on moves in place of the targets last move. The move can be used during battle until the Pokémon has fainted"

    -So like a reverse Mimic except it lasts for the entire battle unless the Pokemon has fainted and was revived. The move of yours it teaches the target is random however it cannot teach the target Tutor.

    Example:
    -Turn 1: Haxorus used Surf on Blissey, Blissey uses Tutor , Haxorus now knows Egg Bomb in place of Surf. Turn Ends


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    Beartic would be a better glass cannon with Ice Shard in its repertoire. At least it would have a priority-based move with STAB.

    It'd be fun to have a Beartic that can inflict damage via Avalanche (the move is suited for slow Pokemon) then finish off the weakened opponents with Ice Shard afterwards.

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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    New Move: Tutor

    Type: / Power: -- / Accuracy: 90% / PP: 5 / Target: Single adjacent Pokemon / Category: / Priority: 0
    "The user teaches the target one of its on moves in place of the targets last move. The move can be used during battle until the Pokémon has fainted"

    -So like a reverse Mimic except it lasts for the entire battle. The move of yours it teaches the target is random except it cannot teach the target Tutor.

    Example:
    -Turn 1: Haxorus used Surf on Blissey, Blissey uses Tutor, Haxorus now knows Egg Bomb in place of Surf. Turn Ends
    Interesting move...seems like it could be devastating to certain Pokemon, especially choice Pokemon. But like in your example, would Haxorus have Egg Bomb the entire game, or until it switches out?

  17. #742
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    New Move: Tutor

    Type: / Power: -- / Accuracy: 100% / PP: 5 / Target: Single adjacent Pokemon / Category: / Priority: 0
    "The user teaches the target one of its on moves in place of the targets last move. The move can be used during battle until the Pokémon has fainted"

    -So like a reverse Mimic except it lasts for the entire battle unless the Pokemon has fainted and was revived. The move of yours it teaches the target is random however it cannot teach the target Tutor.

    Example:
    -Turn 1: Haxorus used Surf on Blissey, Blissey uses Tutor , Haxorus now knows Egg Bomb in place of Surf. Turn Ends
    It may just be me, but I'd prefer it if the move that the user Tutors is the move last used by it, and if the effect ended upon switching out. For example,
    Turn 1: Haxorus uses Surf on Blissey, Blissey uses Egg Bomb.
    Turn 2: Haxorus uses Outrage on Blissey, Blissey uses Tutor, replacing Outrage with Egg Bomb until Haxorus switches out or faints.





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  18. #743
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shadow♠ View Post
    Interesting move...seems like it could be devastating to certain Pokemon, especially choice Pokemon. But like in your example, would Haxorus have Egg Bomb the entire game, or until it switches out?
    Until the battle ends.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    It may just be me, but I'd prefer it if the move that the user Tutors is the move last used by it, and if the effect ended upon switching out. For example,
    Turn 1: Haxorus uses Surf on Blissey, Blissey uses Egg Bomb.
    Turn 2: Haxorus uses Outrage on Blissey, Blissey uses Tutor, replacing Outrage with Egg Bomb until Haxorus switches out or faints.
    eh I kinda like the randomness of it because your opponent might get lucky and get tutored a good move...but at the same time with the chosen tutored move you can have more control but it will require 2 turns to pull it off. As for changing it so until they switch out, with the chosen tutored one, it's kinda like a wasted effort because it took 2 turns, most likely 2 hits, to pull it off and for them to just switch it out seems kinda unfair BUT with the random one maybe.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    eh I kinda like the randomness of it because your opponent might get lucky and get tutored a good move...but at the same time with the chosen tutored move you can have more control but it will require 2 turns to pull it off. As for changing it so until they switch out, with the chosen tutored one, it's kinda like a wasted effort because it took 2 turns, most likely 2 hits, to pull it off and for them to just switch it out seems kinda unfair BUT with the random one maybe.
    I just think that one of the consequences of trying to essentially disable a move with Tutor should be that it takes two turns to set up, during which time the opponent can kill your Tutor before you get to Tutor them.

    Oh yeah, can a Pokémon be taught more than one move via Tutor? So for example, if the Haxorus used Surf and it got turned into Egg Bomb, can the Haxorus use Outrage and get it turned into, say, Softboiled? And most importantly, can a Pokémon with Tutor teach the Tutor move to the target?





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    I just think that one of the consequences of trying to essentially disable a move with Tutor should be that it takes two turns to set up, during which time the opponent can kill your Tutor before you get to Tutor them.
    You make a great point. I'm definitely making it so it will tutor the last move used.

    Oh yeah, can a Pokémon be taught more than one move via Tutor? So for example, if the Haxorus used Surf and it got turned into Egg Bomb, can the Haxorus use Outrage and get it turned into, say, Softboiled? And most importantly, can a Pokémon with Tutor teach the Tutor move to the target?
    I actually never thought of that. Would it be broken if it could do it to more than one move? and no the move Tutor cannot be tutored but if both Pokemon had Tutor and and the last used move on one Pokemon was Tutor the other Pokemon can Tutor their Tutor.

    Example:
    Turn 1: Lopunny used Ice Punch, Blissey used Egg Bomb, Turn Ends
    Turn 2: Lopunny used Jump Kick, Blissey used Tutor, Lopunny's Jump Kick has been replaced with Egg Bomb, Turn Ends
    Turn 3: Lopunny used Tutor, Blissey's Tutor has been replaced with Jump Kick.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    I actually never thought of that. Would it be broken if it could do it to more than one move?
    It probably would. Most Pokémon need all four moves to function properly, and getting rid of one of them is already extremely detrimental. Changing two of them would be even more brutal, and the fact that it lasts beyond switch-out pretty much means that Tutor can pretty much render a Pokémon useless if used twice.





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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    It probably would. Most Pokémon need all four moves to function properly, and getting rid of one of them is already extremely detrimental. Changing two of them would be even more brutal, and the fact that it lasts beyond switch-out pretty much means that Tutor can pretty much render a Pokémon useless if used twice.
    Ok it's settled then:

    Revamped version v.02

    New Move: Tutor

    Type: / Power: -- / Accuracy: 100% / PP: 5 / Target: Single adjacent Pokemon / Category: / Priority: 0
    "The user teaches the target it's last move in place of the targets last move. The move can be used during battle until the Pokémon has fainted"

    -So like a reverse Mimic except it lasts for the entire battle unless the Pokemon has fainted and was revived. Tutor cannot be tutored but it can be replaced by the effect of the move Tutor. However it can only Tutor once per the Pokemon unless the Pokemon fainted and was revived. Protect and Detect are not affected by tutor if the moves were used. It cannot be magic bounced.

    Example:
    -Turn 1: Haxorus used Surf on Blissey, Blissey Egg Bomb, Turn Ends.
    -Turn 2: Haxorus used Outrage, Blissey used Tutor , Haxorus now knows Egg Bomb in place of Outrage.


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  23. #748
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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    Ok it's settled then:

    Revamped version v.02

    New Move: Tutor

    Type: / Power: -- / Accuracy: 100% / PP: 5 / Target: Single adjacent Pokemon / Category: / Priority: 0
    "The user teaches the target it's last move in place of the targets last move. The move can be used during battle until the Pokémon has fainted"

    -So like a reverse Mimic except it lasts for the entire battle unless the Pokemon has fainted and was revived. Tutor cannot be tutored but it can be replaced by the effect of the move Tutor. However it can only Tutor once per the Pokemon unless the Pokemon fainted and was revived.

    Example:
    -Turn 1: Haxorus used Surf on Blissey, Blissey Egg Bomb, Turn Ends.
    -Turn 2: Haxorus used Outrage, Blissey used Tutor , Haxorus now knows Egg Bomb in place of Outrage.
    Sounds good! You should also mention whether or not should be affected by Protect and Detect and should be deflectable by Magic Bounce, just in case.

    New Move: Frenzy Claws
    Type: Normal / Power: 20 / Accuracy: 100 / PP: 10 / Target: Single adjacent Pokémon / Category: Physical / Priority: 0 (Contact: Yes)
    "The user slashes at the foe two to five times in quick succession. Each hit may lower the target's Defense stat."
    - Yeah. Just like how Iron Barbs triggers after every hit of a multi-hit move, every hit of this move has a 10% chance of lowering the target's Defense stat. For example, if a one-stage Defense drop increases damage dealt by 50%, and the first hit does 20 damage and lowers Defense by one stage, then the second hit does 30.





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  24. #749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wishing Star View Post
    New Move: Frenzy Claws
    Type: Normal / Power: 20 / Accuracy: 100 / PP: 10 / Target: Single adjacent Pokémon / Category: Physical / Priority: 0 (Contact: Yes)
    "The user slashes at the foe two to five times in quick succession. Each hit may lower the target's Defense stat."
    - Yeah. Just like how Iron Barbs triggers after every hit of a multi-hit move, every hit of this move has a 10% chance of lowering the target's Defense stat. For example, if a one-stage Defense drop increases damage dealt by 50%, and the first hit does 20 damage and lowers Defense by one stage, then the second hit does 30.
    Wow I like it. Cinncino with Skill Link will abuse the crap out of it lol. Although I personally would have made it 20 power.


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    Quote Originally Posted by cascadethewarrior View Post
    Wow I like it. Cinncino with Skill Link will abuse the crap out of it lol. Although I personally would have made it 20 power.
    It is 20 power. Did you mean 10 power?

    And yeah, Cinccino doesn't exactly have the best claws in the world, so it wouldn't be able to learn it. (:





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