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Thread: Next Pokemon Thread VI: Unova Evolution/Capture/Release Speculation Arena

  1. #14601
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    Quote Originally Posted by Doryuzu View Post
    Paul and Gary both had members of that family, the Elekid family as a whole has been shown a fair amount in the sho.

    However Georgia and a Tyranitar and Bianca and Musharna, that looks really nice on paper....errr...computer screen.
    to be honest I only put that cause I couldn't think of anything else.

    As for Georgia she could do with something to serve as a Dragonite counter. Tyranitars rock typing makes it super effective against Dragonite, plus it can learn a variety of moves for many situations

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    This saga was an experiment...it failed...
    I wouldn't say that this saga is a complete failure, because it did have a some things which were quite good especially the part of Ash catching more pokemons and rotating his team, serious TR, etc.

    But if i have to say the reason as to why the saga would be considered as a failure, it would be because of the writers own fault of doing excessive promotion especially using Pikachu and the Starters (along with Axew's promotion).

    They should have instead given equal amount of screen-time to each of Ash's pokemons. Cut down on Pikachu's participation and wins in the gyms and given those to his other teammates. Given good amount of development for the other pokemons through good battles and new moves along with timely evolutions.

    Also the major setback for this saga was turning Ash back to the level of a 'sort of new trainer' from the level of 'experienced trainer' he had attained during the course of Hoenn and Sinnoh saga.
    Plus making him lose each tournament he took part in, was a added bonus on there part to just prove Ash's downgrade to a low level trainer. The writers for some reason just wanted to show Ash as a failed dark-horse during this saga.
    Last edited by Lucario At Service; 20th March 2013 at 12:31 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucario At Service View Post
    I wouldn't say that this saga is a complete failure, because it did have a some things which were quite good especially the part of Ash catching more pokemons and rotating his team.

    But if i have to say the reason as to why the saga would be considered as a failure, it would be because of the writers own fault of doing excessive promotion especially using Pikachu and the Starters (along with Axew's promotion).

    They should have instead given equal amount of screen-time to each of Ash's pokemons. Cut down on Pikachu's participation and wins in the gyms and given those to his other teammates. Given good amount of development for the other pokemons through good battles and new moves along with timely evolutions.

    Also the major setback for this saga was turning Ash back to the level of a 'sort of new trainer' from the level of 'experienced trainer' he had attained during the course of Hoenn and Sinnoh saga.
    Plus making him lose each tournament he took part in, was a added bonus on there part to just prove Ash's downgrade to a low level trainer. The writers for some reason just wanted to show Ash as a failed dark-horse during this saga.
    He doesn't win anything,he doesn't care that he doesn't win anything...he doesn't seem to be going anywhere...>.>

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    He doesn't win anything,he doesn't care that he doesn't win anything...he doesn't seem to be going anywhere...>.>
    Well thats the attitude that made it worse for him in this saga.

    At least during the Sinnoh saga, he got his motivation on doing better after his loss to Paul in that full battle.

    Maybe its Trip's characters fault that the writers downgraded Ash's skill level in Unova.

    What i mean to say is that during Hoenn, Ash didn't have any long term rivals but he was directly working as May's mentor (as a senior), while also attaining higher level maturity as a trainer especially during his run of the BF.

    In Sinnoh, he had achieved a great deal of maturity as a trainer and reached the level of an Experienced/Advance Level Trainer, especially because he had a very good rival in the form of Paul who was equally experienced as Ash at that point and Ash fought with him time to time. Also Ash didn't lose to newbies like Barry.

    But in Unova, he is given a rival in the form of a new trainer who just started his journey after Ash reached Unova (plus all the rivals he had in this saga had just started there journey as well). So, maybe in order to showcase Trip (and the others) as a threat to Ash, they decided to downgrade his level, since there were no Experienced/Advance Level Trainers as Ash's rival in this saga.
    Last edited by Lucario At Service; 20th March 2013 at 12:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucario At Service View Post
    Well thats the attitude that made it worse for him in this saga.

    At least during the Sinnoh saga, he got his motivation on doing better after his loss to Paul in that full battle.

    Maybe its Trip's characters fault that the writers downgraded Ash's skill level in Unova.

    What i mean to say is that during Hoenn, Ash didn't have any long term rivals but he was directly working as May's mentor (as a senior), while also attaining higher level maturity as a trainer especially during his run of the BF.

    In Sinnoh, he had achieved a great deal of maturity as a trainer and reached the level of an Experienced/Advance Level Trainer, especially because he had a very good rival in the form of Paul who was equally experienced as Ash at that point and Ash fought with him time to time. Also Ash didn't lose to newbies like Barry.

    But in Unova, he is given a rival in the form of a new trainer who just started his journey after Ash reached Unova (plus all the rivals he had in this saga had just started there journey as well). So, maybe in order to showcase Trip (and the others) as a threat to Ash, they decided to downgrade his level, since there were no Experienced/Advance Level Trainers as Ash's rival in this saga.
    I know the whole story.I just don't agree with what they've been doing.I really think it's time for Ash to go.A new main character with more personality and a clear,definite goal would be much more interesting to watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    This saga was an experiment...it failed...
    It sure did! I think its a real shame as so many of the new elements of BW had such great potential but were TERRIBLY done. For example, the rotation could have been a brilliant system but instead it ended up as Ash catching loads of Pokemon, most of the, never to be seen from one episode to the the next.

    For the future, EITHER Ash should rotate OR Ash should obsessively favour the starters. Both together is a absolutely horrific combination.

    I think Ash should capture perhaps 7 new Pokemon next gen, giving him a rotating team of 8 and ACTUALLY rotate them! No one Pokemon should be treated vastly differently from any other and all should be given roughly equal screentime and wins. I'm fed up of Pikachu and Oshawott being all we ever see in BW.

    Quote Originally Posted by TheSirPeras View Post
    How? How is Oshawott responsible? If anything Pikachu is, starring in 3 gyms. If you can blame Oshawott blame Snivy and Pignite too, they were also there stealing time for the reserves, even if it wasn't just 5 seconds cameos like Oshawott had especially after the 5th gym...
    It was obviously an exaggeration to say he was soley responsible but he was 80% to blame, for sure. Yes Pikachu should butt right out and it shouldn't have starred in ANY gyms, it has shone far too many times already and the current gen team should shine each gen, not Pikachu spotlight-stealing constantly. However, sadly, Pikachu is destined to appear in EVERY episode and so there is nothing we can do about it. Oshawott on the other hand, has viciously stolen screentime from the reserves. I'm sick of Oshawott's ugly mug having to be shoehorned into every other episode, I want to see Unfezant, Leavanny, Boldore and Palpitoad who were treated like dirt and forgotten about shortly after each one was captured. Pignite had way too many wins, yes, but it didn't hog half as much as Oshawott did, who has spent HOURS taking up pixels on our screens and yet made virtually NO progress or developed in any way and hasn't even had the decency to evolve. Snivy!? How can you[ put her in the same category? She has no gym wins AT ALL and didn't really appear that much either.

    If Ash getting all the starters means they have to be on the team constantly and yet do nothing and refuse to evolve because of marketability then I don't want Ash to get all the starters.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucario At Service View Post
    I wouldn't say that this saga is a complete failure, because it did have a some things which were quite good especially the part of Ash catching more pokemons and rotating his team, serious TR, etc.

    But if i have to say the reason as to why the saga would be considered as a failure, it would be because of the writers own fault of doing excessive promotion especially using Pikachu and the Starters (along with Axew's promotion).

    They should have instead given equal amount of screen-time to each of Ash's pokemons. Cut down on Pikachu's participation and wins in the gyms and given those to his other teammates. Given good amount of development for the other pokemons through good battles and new moves along with timely evolutions.

    Also the major setback for this saga was turning Ash back to the level of a 'sort of new trainer' from the level of 'experienced trainer' he had attained during the course of Hoenn and Sinnoh saga.
    Plus making him lose each tournament he took part in, was a added bonus on there part to just prove Ash's downgrade to a low level trainer. The writers for some reason just wanted to show Ash as a failed dark-horse during this saga.
    I 100% agree.
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    3. Evolution is nothing to be scared of. Especially evolve Starters, please!

  7. #14607
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    They introduced some brilliant things this series which really make it entertaining for me, now next series all they have to do is take those and give them proper excecution and there's potential for the best series yet right there. Make Ash get lots of Pokes but show case them more and give the marketing tool Pokemon for a side kickc. Make Team Rocket more consistent as serious villains but allow them to have more personality. BW is a start, everything needs one.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rohanator View Post
    They introduced some brilliant things this series which really make it entertaining for me, now next series all they have to do is take those and give them proper excecution and there's potential for the best series yet right there. Make Ash get lots of Pokes but show case them more and give the marketing tool Pokemon for a side kickc. Make Team Rocket more consistent as serious villains but allow them to have more personality. BW is a start, everything needs one.
    Sounds good to me!
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    Advice to the writers for the 6th Gen:
    1. Give a fair distribution of screentime and battles- No Pika-Hogging.
    2. Give Ash as many Pokemon as you will bother with, and no more.
    3. Evolution is nothing to be scared of. Especially evolve Starters, please!

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    Quote Originally Posted by naughtynun View Post
    It was obviously an exaggeration to say he was soley responsible but he was 80% to blame, for sure. Yes Pikachu should butt right out and it shouldn't have starred in ANY gyms, it has shone far too many times already and the current gen team should shine each gen, not Pikachu spotlight-stealing constantly. However, sadly, Pikachu is destined to appear in EVERY episode and so there is nothing we can do about it. Oshawott on the other hand, has viciously stolen screentime from the reserves. I'm sick of Oshawott's ugly mug having to be shoehorned into every other episode, I want to see Unfezant, Leavanny, Boldore and Palpitoad who were treated like dirt and forgotten about shortly after each one was captured. Pignite had way too many wins, yes, but it didn't hog half as much as Oshawott did, who has spent HOURS taking up pixels on our screens and yet made virtually NO progress or developed in any way and hasn't even had the decency to evolve. Snivy!? How can you[ put her in the same category? She has no gym wins AT ALL and didn't really appear that much either.

    If Ash getting all the starters means they have to be on the team constantly and yet do nothing and refuse to evolve because of marketability then I don't want Ash to get all the starters.
    You blame Oshawott for having less than 1 minute appearances (mostly anyways) but don't blame Pignite as much as Oshawott for stealing the wins the reserves could get? It's the same, Oshawott steals time, Pignite steals wins, so both of them should be blamed. Snivy has 1 gym win, Oshawott has 2 (unless you count the tie vs Watchog). Snivy may not have appeared as much as the other 2 starters, but she has more appearances than all the other Pokemon (except maybe Scraggy, or maybe they're around the same, not sure). I do agree with your last point, why can't Ash only have 1 starter -_- I mean, I get why he can't but it's so annoying

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    MIjumaru and Pikachu are equally to blame. Actually lump Kibago and snivy there as well. Their very existence prevents the majority of out of tournament appearances of his evolved pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    MIjumaru and Pikachu are equally to blame. Actually lump Kibago and snivy there as well. Their very existence prevents the majority of out of tournament appearances of his evolved pokemon.
    Yeah.. One could actually argue that it might've been better if:
    - Ash didn't capture Snivy, but went to Iris instead.
    - Ash didn't capture Palpitoad.

    Ash:
    - Pikachu
    - Unfezant
    - Oshawott
    - Pignite
    - Leavanny
    - Scraggy
    - Boldore
    - Krookodile

    I'm perfectly fine with the above team. I don't need Snivy and Palpitoad on there. In this scenario, something else could've enjoyed battling Elesa, Clay's Palpitoad and fall against Roxie's Garbodor. Like Roggenrola fighting Emolga and barely losing to Zebstrika, so that the sturdy-ness was actually mentioned before randomly DEM'ing Ash the Driftveil win. Swadloon fighting Palpitoad, Krookodile vs. Garbodor, who knows!

    It's just my opinion that the series would've been better if the team was just a slightly bit trimmed. Ash didn't need nine pokemon before the fourth gym, seven would've been much better and easier to rotate.

    I'm hoping that if XyloYoga goes for the rotation scheme again, that they won't push the number over seven captures, with preferably six being quite soon and a seventh being prior to the sixth gym. Krokorok is a good example of a late capture done right.

    Striaton: Slightly changed.
    - Oshawott vs. Chili: FAIL
    - Pidove vs. Cress: WIN
    - Tepig vs. Cilan: WIN
    Nacrene: Same
    Castelia: Same
    Nimbasa:
    - Tranquill vs. Zebstrika: Zebstrika with a very high jump.
    - Roggenrola vs. Zebstrika: Roggenrola (sturdy mentioned).
    - Roggenrola vs. Emolga: Roggenrola (Sandstorm/Flash Cannon/Stone Edge combo)
    - Pikachu vs. Tynamo: Pikachu
    Driftveil:
    - Oshawott vs. Krokorok: Oshawott
    - Oshawott vs. Palpitoad: Palpitoad
    - Leavanny vs. Palpitoad; Leavanny
    - Leavanny vs. Excadrill: Excadrill
    - Oshawott vs. Excadrill: Excadrill
    - Boldore vs. Excadrill: Boldore
    Mistralton: Same
    Icirrus: Same
    Virbank:
    - Pignite, Leavanny, Scraggy, Oshawott, Krookodile, Pikachu.
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheSirPeras View Post
    You blame Oshawott for having less than 1 minute appearances (mostly anyways) but don't blame Pignite as much as Oshawott for stealing the wins the reserves could get? It's the same, Oshawott steals time, Pignite steals wins, so both of them should be blamed. Snivy has 1 gym win, Oshawott has 2 (unless you count the tie vs Watchog). Snivy may not have appeared as much as the other 2 starters, but she has more appearances than all the other Pokemon (except maybe Scraggy, or maybe they're around the same, not sure). I do agree with your last point, why can't Ash only have 1 starter -_- I mean, I get why he can't but it's so annoying
    Difference is that Pignite only appears to battle and the occasional group scene. Mijumaru is just there, doing nothing and taking up a rotating space. Snivy has been shown to be rotating early on. Mijumaru took 100 episodes to rotate and has done so once -_-...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    I know the whole story.I just don't agree with what they've been doing.I really think it's time for Ash to go.A new main character with more personality and a clear,definite goal would be much more interesting to watch.
    Not at all. I disagree massively. Ash leaving the anime would be the ONLY reason in the world why I would stop watching it. This anime is Ash's story and his journey to become a Pokemon Master. Untill Ash become a pokemon Master he must stay as the main character of the anime. If Ash leaves without winning a single league or after winning a league and they act as if winning a league is enough to become a Master (when they've stated its not) it would be a major disrespect to all the Pokemon fans. Specially the ones that have been watching this from the beggining, like me and most of the people here.

    Anyway, just wanted to say that, Ash won't leave, one of the writers already said they will keep doing the same formula of Ash visiting a new region, earning badges, catching new pokemon, competing in regional leagues, etc.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Lucas MV View Post
    Not at all. I disagree massively. Ash leaving the anime would be the ONLY reason in the world why I would stop watching it. This anime is Ash's story and his journey to become a Pokemon Master. Untill Ash become a pokemon Master he must stay as the main character of the anime. If Ash leaves without winning a single league or after winning a league and they act as if winning a league is enough to become a Master (when they've stated its not) it would be a major disrespect to all the Pokemon fans. Specially the ones that have been watching this from the beggining, like me and most of the people here.

    Anyway, just wanted to say that, Ash won't leave, one of the writers already said they will keep doing the same formula of Ash visiting a new region, earning badges, catching new pokemon, competing in regional leagues, etc.
    Really?You like Ash?Why?

    Well,they brought Charizard,Ash could very well win some sort of big competition now and be done with.They've brought Mewtwo too...It's wise to start with Mewtwo and end with Mewtwo.As well as Charizard...his first fully evolved starter and strongest pkmn to win a big battle for him.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    Really?You like Ash?Why?

    Well,they brought Charizard,Ash could very well win some sort of big competition now and be done with.They've brought Mewtwo too...It's wise to start with Mewtwo and end with Mewtwo.As well as Charizard...his first fully evolved starter and strongest pkmn to win a big battle for him.
    Ash isn't the problem lol, it's Pikachu and the writers...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    ^ That's a big stretch Locormus. I'm pretty much beginning to believe no team change for Ash at all. Maybe an evolution, but I don't think he's gonna capture anything
    It's based on nothing but speculation and a model, the likelihood of Ash capturing a Shuckle are as big as.. Well, you actually starting to use that Shuckle you got back in Cianwood in Silver.. -.-

    Quote Originally Posted by Lucario At Service View Post
    Well Johto saga had a lot of gaps considering that there was only one evolution in the whole saga and Ash had caught most of his Johto team pokemons within the first 40 episodes of the saga.

    During Johto, Ash had a gap of around 75 episode between new pokemons (it was the difference between Noctowl's capture and winning Phanpy's egg, not counting Beedrill though).

    The difference between a capture (of Noctowl) and an evolution (of Bayleef) was of around 45 episodes in Johto.

    I have to check the other saga's as well to get a much clear idea on when we had the biggest gap, so don't consider this as the final observation.
    Wrong on the first one. Capture to capture is likely to be Gligar to Gible: 93 episodes.
    Another large gap was Snorunt to Aipom, which was 74 episodes.

    Wouldn't want to make a gamble on the second one.. :P

    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    This saga was an experiment...it failed...
    Had the writers not given Ash Snivy and Palpitoad, this series would've been different by a lot. Snivy and Palpitoad have gotten the least development out of Ash's entire group, and should've not been caught at all. Snivy should've gone to either Cilan or Iris (it has access to Twister early on, which could be her tie in).

    If so, then Ash would've only had seven pokemon to juggle by the time he reached Nimbasa, unlike the nine he had to give time. That's the difference between having a stable core and switching one out every so often for another, instead of having to juggle 1.5 team for most of the series. Krookodile was done right with intermittent appearances before being captured and this should continue for later 'late captures'.

    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Ash isn't the problem lol, it's Pikachu and the writers...
    True...
    Answer to all the bad things in the world: Give up on trying to make everything better. Hence, accepting it for what it is. YOLO! <- Click the link and daw.. -.-

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    obviously Ash doesn't need to catch more than six pokemon per region(not counting Pikachu) even if one has to be oaked/go to train/etc for the final one. Also we can clearly see he doesn't need all three starters, because in the end trying to get equal time between them ain't happening.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    Striaton: Slightly changed.
    - Oshawott vs. Chili: FAIL
    - Pidove vs. Cress: WIN
    - Tepig vs. Cilan: WIN
    Nacrene: Same
    Castelia: Same
    Nimbasa:
    - Tranquill vs. Zebstrika: Zebstrika with a very high jump.
    - Roggenrola vs. Zebstrika: Roggenrola (sturdy mentioned).
    - Roggenrola vs. Emolga: Roggenrola (Sandstorm/Flash Cannon/Stone Edge combo)
    - Pikachu vs. Tynamo: Pikachu
    The only change I'd make to the Striaton gym is Pidove losing to Cress instead of Pikachu. Or possibly Tepig tying and then Pidove winning. Just to make the Cress fight more realistic than Pikachu getting smashed by a Panpour. And Oshawott needed to beat Cilan because: 1. Reflects the games with fighting with a disadvantaged starter and 2. Cilan needed to get that "unique flavour" from Ash to get motivation to join him on the journey.

    As for the 4th gym, I like it otherwise but I think Ash foddering his bird at the electric gym for no reason is kinda weird. Other than the "disadvantage YOLO" factor that is. Rather have him try with Swadloon and fail or something.
    Also, Roggenrola's Sturdy was mentioned in its capture episode so his battle vs Clay didn't come completely out no where.
    Last edited by Rohanator; 20th March 2013 at 10:14 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    It's based on nothing but speculation and a model, the likelihood of Ash capturing a Shuckle are as big as.. Well, you actually starting to use that Shuckle you got back in Cianwood in Silver.. -.-



    Wrong on the first one. Capture to capture is likely to be Gligar to Gible: 93 episodes.
    Another large gap was Snorunt to Aipom, which was 74 episodes.

    Wouldn't want to make a gamble on the second one.. :P



    Had the writers not given Ash Snivy and Palpitoad, this series would've been different by a lot. Snivy and Palpitoad have gotten the least development out of Ash's entire group, and should've not been caught at all. Snivy should've gone to either Cilan or Iris (it has access to Twister early on, which could be her tie in).

    If so, then Ash would've only had seven pokemon to juggle by the time he reached Nimbasa, unlike the nine he had to give time. That's the difference between having a stable core and switching one out every so often for another, instead of having to juggle 1.5 team for most of the series. Krookodile was done right with intermittent appearances before being captured and this should continue for later 'late captures'.



    True...
    Um...no, this series would of been much different if Mijumaru wasn't captured. Ash already has one merch hog, he didn't need anymore.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Locormus View Post
    Had the writers not given Ash Snivy and Palpitoad, this series would've been different by a lot. Snivy and Palpitoad have gotten the least development out of Ash's entire group, and should've not been caught at all. Snivy should've gone to either Cilan or Iris (it has access to Twister early on, which could be her tie in).
    Let's be honest with ourselves here, Snivy's only option was Ash or nothing at all. Cilan would always choose his premium Pansage over her and Iris can't even fairly juggle her own Pokemon either (and she only has 4) not to mention her goal has no real battling involved. Palpitoad didn't need to be captured though from the looks of it and really, Leavanny didn't either
    3DS code:1048-8163-5480
    Why exactly can't Ash get this little guy?
    "I already told you, I don't mind playing the bad guy every once in a while."~ Sonic the Hedgehog

  21. #14621
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    Quote Originally Posted by Almighty Zard View Post
    obviously Ash doesn't need to catch more than six pokemon per region(not counting Pikachu) even if one has to be oaked/go to train/etc for the final one. Also we can clearly see he doesn't need all three starters, because in the end trying to get equal time between them ain't happening.
    I agree to be honest, although I thought Ash was able to handle two Starters quite well in DP. I mean obviously poor Torterra kind of flopped upon evolving, but all things considered, I think he was a good reliable Pokemon. I sincerely hope that the writers give Ash a team similar to his DP team in the next saga. A small, concise team with good battlers who get almost equal amounts of screen-time would be nice.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    A small, concise team with good battlers who get almost equal amounts of screen-time would be nice.
    Not to mention actually look powerful.

  23. #14623
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ciccone View Post
    I sincerely hope that the writers give Ash a team similar to his DP team in the next saga. A small, concise team with good battlers who get almost equal amounts of screen-time would be nice.
    People complain that Infernape took up way too much screentime, but if you look at the season as a whole, Turtwig started things out, Buizel took the middle, and Chimchar ended it. Gliscor and Staraptor each got their fair share, and most importantly, Pikachu didn't take up much time from everyone. Gible was late so not much was expected from him
    3DS code:1048-8163-5480
    Why exactly can't Ash get this little guy?
    "I already told you, I don't mind playing the bad guy every once in a while."~ Sonic the Hedgehog

  24. #14624
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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    People complain that Infernape took up way too much screentime, but if you look at the season as a whole, Turtwig started things out, Buizel took the middle, and Chimchar ended it. Gliscor and Staraptor each got their fair share, and most importantly, Pikachu didn't take up much time from everyone. Gible was late so not much was expected from him
    Ash said FU to everybody when he captured Chimchar lol.
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  25. #14625
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Ash said FU to everybody when he captured Chimchar lol.
    Oh right, that's why Buizel didn't win Ash the Cobble and Fen badges? XD Or Gliscor the Mine Badge
    Last edited by Joltik-Kid; 21st March 2013 at 1:17 AM.
    3DS code:1048-8163-5480
    Why exactly can't Ash get this little guy?
    "I already told you, I don't mind playing the bad guy every once in a while."~ Sonic the Hedgehog

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