Next Pokemon Thread VI: Unova Evolution/Capture/Release Speculation Arena

[_Taidow_]

^though hoenn was also the only time he ran through a main region with a truely balanced team, every other main region he's had at least two of the same pokemon element at some point or another.

Kanto: Flying
Jouto: Grass
Hoenn: Balance
Sinnoh: Flying and Ground
Unova: Grass, Water, Ground, Dark due to rotation.

Not counting filler arcs of course since during those Ash can use what he wants and isn't restricted to region only pokemon, hopefully though they might break that trend in gen six, but i doubt it.

You do realize why that is, right? The only dual-type he caught in Hoenn was Swellow. Everything else was a single type for the duration of his journey.

[Umbilical Noose]

Chespin will no matter what end up on the main cast though, you can bet your postcount on it. So it doesn't really matter if it's on Ash, or whichever new character is brought in. I'd rather see it on Ash, because of latent potential and whatnot.. :P I'm with you on Froakie though. It's either him or Crauncher.

Its Clauncher. I can see it with Ash too.

Would do you exactly mean by that.

Kanto - Charizard/Pidgeotto -Flying Type
Johto - Chikorita/Bulbasaur -Ground Type
Sinnoh - Gliscor\Torterra\Gible - Ground Type Gliscor\Staravia - Flying Type
Unova - Oshawott\Palpitoad - Water Type Palpitoad\Krokorok - Ground type Snivy\Leavanny - Grass type Pignite\Charizard - Fire type Krookodile\Scraggy - Dark type

P.S. : Not throughout the region.

Edit : Ninja'd, by two days. Epic fail

[Dracoflare]

Well at least one can say Ash;s Sinnoh team can literally be owned by an Ice type. Despite that, Froslass did jack.

[pokemonsquared]

Well at least one can say Ash;s Sinnoh team can literally be owned by an Ice type. Despite that, Froslass did jack.

not when the strongest member happened to be a Fire/Fighting it's kind of like how DragMag teams can work despite having four or more dragons on one team.

On another note, while I don't think we'll be getting anything for the main cast in Da! I'm hoping for TR to get a new pokemon, maybe James can get a maractus or Ferrothorn before leaving for Kalos.

[_Taidow_]

Well at least one can say Ash;s Sinnoh team can literally be owned by an Ice type. Despite that, Froslass did jack.

Because it wasn't sent against any of them.

[AceDetective]

Well at least one can say Ash;s Sinnoh team can literally be owned by an Ice type. Despite that, Froslass did jack.

To be fair most of them could counter ice types

Gliscor - Fire Fang
Staraptor - Close Combat
Gible - Rick Smash

Plus infernape who could easily handle a lot of ice types

[Lucario At Service]

Kanto - Charizard/Pidgeotto -Flying Type
Johto - Chikorita/Bulbasaur -Grass Type
Sinnoh - Gliscor\Torterra\Gible - Ground Type Gliscor\Staravia - Flying Type
Unova - Oshawott\Palpitoad - Water Type Palpitoad\Krokorok - Ground type Snivy\Leavanny - Grass type Pignite\Charizard - Fire type Krookodile\Scraggy - Dark type

Corrected that for you.

So, you are saying that having 2 pokemons of the same type makes his team unbalanced.

While you are correct on this point to a certain extent, but its not completely correct. Just because they have similar typing doesn't mean that they work the same way. Eventhough they are of the same type, but still they had some differences between them except in a few cases.

The important factor is how the writers handled each individual pokemons for Ash.

For example, during Johto; Chikorita & Bulbasaur were pretty much the same in almost ever aspect, except in battle experience.

Where as in Sinnoh; Gliscor, Torterra & Gible only shared one factor and that is they were part Ground type, the rest of the aspects where completely different from each other (the same applies for Gliscor & Staraptor as well).

This shows that even if they have similar types, it is the handling factor which is important.

[_Taidow_]

So let's see, by now let's look at Ash's Pokémon and their moves

Pikachu
- Thunderbolt
- Quick Attack
- Iron Tail
- Electro Ball (I could totally see this getting replaced in XY)

Charizard
- Flamethrower
- Wing Attack
- Slash
- Dragon Tail

Unfezant
- Quick Attack
- Gust
- Air Cutter
- Aerial Ace

Oshawott
- Tackle
- Hydro Pump
- Aqua Jet
- Razor Shell

Pignite
- Flamethrower
- Flame Charge
- Fire Pledge
- Brick Break

Snivy
- Vine Whip
- Leaf Blade
- Leaf Storm
- Attract

Scraggy
- Leer
- Headbutt
- Hi Jump Kick
- Focus Blast

Leavanny
- X-Scissor
- String Shot
- Razor Leaf
- Energy Ball

Palpitoad
- Hydro Pump
- Mud Shot
- Sludge Wave
- Supersonic

Boldore
- Rock Blast
- Sandstorm
- Flash Cannon
- Rock Smash

Krookodile
- Dig
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Aerial Ace


The ones that feel disappointing to me are Unfezant, Oshawott, Snivy, and Scraggy. I do like how Palpitoad was the "status afflictor" of Ash's team with Posion and Confusion. Lowering Speed would have been nice if they acknowledged that side effect of Mud Shot. Krookodile has the most "complete" moveset in my opinion and Leavanny's was okay after he learned X-Scissor. Charizard's usage of Slash and Wing Attack was weird but I've grown to like it.

[Joltik-Kid]

I never understood the writers choices in stapling lousy moves like Vine Whip, Razor Leaf (okay this one isn't bad, but...), Water Gun, and most of the time obligatory Normal move (mostly Quick Attack). Only Treecko and Turtwig have avoid this fate (at least for the grass moves), by technically, so have Pignite and Oshawott somewhat. Treecko because it can't learn either move and Torterra got the Razor Leaf upgrade. Oshawott at least got to ditch Water Gun and Pignite got to lose Tackle...but both have movesets favorable to their starting type, which is bland.

I guess I just don't get why Ash can't have original sets, they just make things look bad when a Pokemon has 3 moves of it's own typing

[Ninfia]

^ Vine Whip makes sense. Think about it: Snivy could replace it with something else, but she would still have the vines and the ability to use Vine Whip, putting her over the four move limit. Similarly, Oshawott could forget Razor Shell, but it already has the shell to use the move any time. It wouldn't make sense to replace moves like that.

But I can see Oshawott losing Tackle and Snivy Leaf Storm. The other two Pledge moves should have debuted by now, and those moves seem expendable.

[Joltik-Kid]

Ninfia...that doesn't solve the issue, both pledge moves are still of Oshawott's and Snivy's typing

[Locormus]

Its Clauncher. I can see it with Ash too.

It would just be a Water Gunning Corphish though, I'd fear.

To be fair most of them could counter ice types

Gliscor - Fire Fang
Staraptor - Close Combat
Gible - Rick Smash

Plus infernape who could easily handle a lot of ice types

Oddly enough, Gliscor and Staraptor were owned by Candice's Ice-type, while Grotle, without any Counter-Ice-type moves, won.

So let's see, by now let's look at Ash's Pokémon and their moves

Pikachu
- Thunderbolt
- Quick Attack
- Iron Tail
- Electro Ball (I could totally see this getting replaced in XY)

Charizard
- Flamethrower
- Wing Attack
- Slash
- Dragon Tail

Unfezant
- Quick Attack
- Gust
- Air Cutter
- Aerial Ace

Oshawott
- Tackle
- Hydro Pump
- Aqua Jet
- Razor Shell

Pignite
- Flamethrower
- Flame Charge
- Fire Pledge
- Brick Break

Snivy
- Vine Whip
- Leaf Blade
- Leaf Storm
- Attract

Scraggy
- Leer
- Headbutt
- Hi Jump Kick
- Focus Blast

Leavanny
- X-Scissor
- String Shot
- Razor Leaf
- Energy Ball

Palpitoad
- Hydro Pump
- Mud Shot
- Sludge Wave
- Supersonic

Boldore
- Rock Blast
- Sandstorm
- Flash Cannon
- Rock Smash

Krookodile
- Dig
- Stone Edge
- Dragon Claw
- Aerial Ace


The ones that feel disappointing to me are Unfezant, Oshawott, Snivy, and Scraggy. I do like how Palpitoad was the "status afflictor" of Ash's team with Posion and Confusion. Lowering Speed would have been nice if they acknowledged that side effect of Mud Shot. Krookodile has the most "complete" moveset in my opinion and Leavanny's was okay after he learned X-Scissor. Charizard's usage of Slash and Wing Attack was weird but I've grown to like it.

Personally, I'm torn between two perspectives:
- A. Quality prevalence.
- B. Usage prevalence.

When thinking about it, as a Fighting-type, HJK, Focus Blast, and then Headbutt and Leer for a hatchling like Scraggy isn't bad, especially if it uses rapid double Focus Blasts, which it can - we've seen it do so (and miss, but since that's been taken care off, it should be possible). The issue is that it was never used in battle. Conclusion for Scraggy:
- Quality prevalence: CHECK
- Usage prevalence: Nope..

Same with quite a few:
- Leavanny: Decent moves, but never really got to show it off much.
- Palpitoad: Decent moves, but never really got to show them off much, aside from the same three move combo a couple of times.

Oshawott finally got the Razor Jet-combo in what would otherwise be a filler, but will likely never use it again.

Hence, there are three groups, well, actually four, in which Ash's pokemon can be split:

Group 1: Quality and Usage prevalence
- 1. Pikachu: Uses good moves on regular basis
- 2. Krookodile: Uses good moves on regular basis: Stone Edge, Dragon Claw, Crunch, Dig = Good moves.
- 3. Boldore: Used good moves on regular basis: Flash Cannon, Stone Edge/Rock Blast, Sandstorm, Rock Smash (in BW it's good)
Group 2: Quality prevalence
- 1. Scraggy: Has good moves for a hatchling, but isn't used to its fullest potential at all.
- 2. Leavanny: Good moves, but the better moves are hardly used.
- 3. Palpitoad: Has good moves, but isn't used enough in order to showcase them well.
Group 3: Usage prevalence
- 1. Pignite: Uses most of his moves regularly, except Brick Break, and there's where the quality of versatility is lacking.
- 2. Oshawott: Uses most of his moves regularly, but none really stand out and there's no diversity in effect.
- 3. Snivy: Uses all her moves regularly, but there's no real versatility - instead she's quite stale and therefore lacks quality in my eyes.
Group 4: None of the above
- 1. Unfezant: She has no standout moves, and she doesn't use her variety of moves often enough. We've seen what she can do in the Mistralton gym, but outside that gym she has done squat with what she's been given.

I never understood the writers choices in stapling lousy moves like Vine Whip, Razor Leaf (okay this one isn't bad, but...), Water Gun, and most of the time obligatory Normal move (mostly Quick Attack). Only Treecko and Turtwig have avoid this fate (at least for the grass moves), by technically, so have Pignite and Oshawott somewhat. Treecko because it can't learn either move and Torterra got the Razor Leaf upgrade. Oshawott at least got to ditch Water Gun and Pignite got to lose Tackle...but both have movesets favorable to their starting type, which is bland.

I guess I just don't get why Ash can't have original sets, they just make things look bad when a Pokemon has 3 moves of it's own typing

Another reason why Diamond and Pearl was a good show compared to Best Wishes:
- Pikachu: Volt Tackle, Thunderbolt - Iron Tail, Quick Attack
- Staraptor: Brave Bird, Aerial Ace - Close Combat, Quick Attack
- Torterra: Leaf Storm, Energy Ball - Rock Climb, Synthesis
- Buizel: Water Gun, Aqua Jet - Ice Punch, Sonic Boom
- Infernape: Flare Blitz, Flamethrower - Mach Punch, Dig
- Gliscor: Sand Attack - Stone Edge, Steel Wing, X-scissor, Fire Fang, Giga Impact, Screech
- Gible: Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse - Dig, Rock Smash

No more then two moves of the primary STAB-typing, and all had an additional coverage move/epic move. Granted, Buizel once had three Water-types moves, but quickly forgot Water Pulse.

^ Vine Whip makes sense. Think about it: Snivy could replace it with something else, but she would still have the vines and the ability to use Vine Whip, putting her over the four move limit. Similarly, Oshawott could forget Razor Shell, but it already has the shell to use the move any time. It wouldn't make sense to replace moves like that.

But I can see Oshawott losing Tackle and Snivy Leaf Storm. The other two Pledge moves should have debuted by now, and those moves seem expendable.

Uhm... Krookodile still has its mouth, and can still bite and crunch, but hasn't used the moves since. The vines can be used for other moves:

Snivy:
- Attract = Attract
- Vine Whip --> Wring Out: Wrings out opponents where she previously whipped them.
- Leaf Storm --> Twister: Just an aesthetic change, but gains a good coverage type.
- Leaf Blade --> Grass Pledge: Both are defined as a smack with the tail.

I blame the writers for keeping Snivy stale.

Oshawott:
- Water Gun = Hydro Pump: Only good choice.
- Razor Shell --> Razor Shell, or other slashing moves. The Scalchop doesn't need to be solely used for Razor Shell, but also for Night Slash/Air Slash and Fury Cutter for instance.
- Aqua Jet --> Waterfall
- Tackle --> Retaliate/Trump Card/Copycat?

Again, writers keeping Oshawott stale while simple "Razor Leaf -> Leaf Storm''-power ups were readily available..

[Joltik-Kid]

Another reason why Diamond and Pearl was a good show compared to Best Wishes:
- Pikachu: Volt Tackle, Thunderbolt - Iron Tail, Quick Attack
- Staraptor: Brave Bird, Aerial Ace - Close Combat, Quick Attack
- Torterra: Leaf Storm, Energy Ball - Rock Climb, Synthesis
- Buizel: Water Gun, Aqua Jet - Ice Punch, Sonic Boom
- Infernape: Flare Blitz, Flamethrower - Mach Punch, Dig
- Gliscor: Sand Attack - Stone Edge, Steel Wing, X-scissor, Fire Fang, Giga Impact, Screech
- Gible: Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse - Dig, Rock Smash

No more then two moves of the primary STAB-typing, and all had an additional coverage move/epic move. Granted, Buizel once had three Water-types moves, but quickly forgot Water Pulse.

I might be in the minority (or the majority) on this, but I was hoping Water Pulse replaced Water Gun...but that staple is pretty tight. It seems that Hydro Pump is the only way to remove it...but poor Squirtle remarkably has both moves for no real reason other then animation differences, which made/make no sense. All Squirtle seems to be doing is using Water Gun in it's shell as the stream is no different in size from said move.

[An00bis]

I never understood the writers choices in stapling lousy moves like Vine Whip, Razor Leaf (okay this one isn't bad, but...), Water Gun, and most of the time obligatory Normal move (mostly Quick Attack).

Some decisions they make are because it's better from a storytelling perspective. I guess for the mascot Pokemon that will likely not be Oaked for extended periods functionality of their movesets are more important than strength. So we see things like Vine Whip being used to catch things or hold objects outside of battle, Razor Leaf cutting nets and / or balloons, and used to get a Water Pokemon Fireman Squad episode every season to illustrate how Water Gun could actually be helpful in an emergency situation.

They got away with it in Diamond and Pearl I imagine because they didn't have as many truly filler episodes that required unconventional use of attacks.