Original regions

[JX Valentine]

I don't want to overstep my boundaries here because you were incredibly welcoming to me when I started posting in the FF forums here and you are obviously one of the most well-spoken, intelligent, and warm folks on this board, but I find your argument to be a bit condescending. People are allowed to enjoy whatever they enjoy; it doesn't necessarily mean they have "double-standards" or are hypocrites; it just means they have personal tastes. I, personally, enjoy the way cocktail sauce and spaghetti sauce taste, but I can't stand ketchup or tomato soup. That doesn't mean I have some insidious secret agenda or "double-standard" against tomato farmers. It means I like cocktail sauce and spaghetti sauce but not ketchup or tomato soup. That's all there is to it.

I'm not saying that you're not allowed to like one thing but dislike another. I'm saying that fundamentally, Pokémon are characters in themselves. To say you don't like original Pokémon but like canon characters or vice versa is basically saying you don't like original characters but don't like original characters. Like I said, I honestly don't care who or what you like, but I have noticed that there's been hostility or close-mindedness when it comes to fics about one or the other (which is why it's very difficult to find people to review a fic about canon characters, for example), and that's what prompted my comments. I could go on and say there's a lot of hostility towards anime-based fics -- and that part's true in the sense that I've seen people brush off fans of the anime as being collectively weeaboos -- despite the fact that they might be manga fans or at least fans of a Japanese video game. While, again, I've said that you can't force yourself to like something, what I meant was that it's rather silly to brush off all fics of X as being inherently bad, more difficult to write, or more divorced from familiar parts of fandom than Y.

And, conversely, if a story had maybe ONE fakemon that was the focus of the story and amazingly fleshed out, I would enjoy that, too. I'm noyt saying "No Fakemon ever!" But do I have very little interest in a story revolving around several fakemon because I don't think they'll be fleshed out very well,

For example, if you don't mind me saying. How do you know that the fakemon in question will be inherently not fleshed out very well if you don't read the story and see whether or not they are? :/ To be honest, off the top of my head, I remember more fics that were able to flesh out multiple fakemon than I can fics that weren't, and anyway, if you can glean the writer's writing style from the first few paragraphs (and determine just how well they can put together details), there's no reason why you should be afraid that the fakemon they include will be horrendously written. After all, if the story lacks well-written description and general narration on the first page, you can generally assume that the fakemon would suck and hit the back button. However, if the story has an abundance of well-written elements on the first page, why would there be an exception made to the fakemon it introduces?

"But!" some of you might say. "I can't picture a fakemon completely like I would be able to picture a Pikachu completely!" Well, sure, but you also can't picture original characters completely. A good writer is able to describe enough to give you an idea, but no writer will be able to give you a complete mental image. However, that's not a point that's exclusive to fakemon. You'll never, for example, be able to know every last detail of a fan-created gym leader's outfit the way you'll have a complete mental image of Misty or Brock. So to discount fakemon for that point is basically to discount original characters as a whole.

Akin to what Dragonfree said...just because I like Pokemon doesn't mean I want to read Digimon fanfic, so why would I want to read about other creatures that aren't really pokemon?

I'm not quite sure what this point goes with. I mean, part of my earlier argument was that if you have the basics of a Pokémon world, it can still be considered Pokémon. As I've said, that's how Gen V worked. Sure, you had people complain that there weren't pre-V Pokémon in the original BW games, but you also didn't have anyone question whether or not it was Pokémon.

Also, as for what you said about flora and fauna of Egypt vs. Japan and that being the reason why an original region "needs" to have fakemon...I don't buy that. I know the general notion is that Sinnoh, Kanto, Hoenn, etc are all separate continents or counties, but...where is that set in stone?

I never said it was. I said that they're separate regions, which is absolutely canon in every single game. (But for the record, it's also canon that Unova is separated from Kanto, Johto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh. It's called a far-away land in comparison to the others.) You can see that every region has its own geographic features and its own climate. Hoenn is not as temperate or mountainous as Sinnoh. Orre is more desert-like than Kanto. Unova is (in one of the games especially) more urban than Johto. Likewise, it's canon (via the games and the anime) that Unova is removed from the other regions. With all of that, it makes sense that each one has their own sets of Pokémon.

More than that, it's shown that Pokémon don't just appear anywhere. If you try to argue that you can fit any Pokémon in your fan-created region, you'd also be arguing that Cacturne should logically be part of Lake Acuity's population. You don't just put Pokémon down; they have to make logical sense to be there. That's why I said that if you can explain why canon Pokémon are there, by all means, go for it. But you should also be aware that it wouldn't make sense for a completely new place (read: that's not based on a location or area similar to the canon regions) to not have unique flora and fauna of its own, and as such, you should be willing to populate it with fakemon on some level. For example, the birds in the United States aren't all the same as the ones that appear in Asia, so yes, you should be creating Pokémon to mimic that kind of phenomenon if you're creating a region removed from Johto, Kanto, Hoenn, and Sinnoh unless you have a good reason not to (the way Orre does).

Why couldn't someone visualize them (and, hence, write them) as though they were just states?

Because they're canonically regions. The South (a region) of the United States isn't exactly the same as New England (another region). They don't have the same geographies, the same climates, the same cultures, or even the same plants and animals (unless invasive species were introduced).

Or large cities with distinct boroughs or towns?

Because they're canonically regions.

To be honest, if someone was telling me I am supposed to like ketchup because it means I have a double-standard if I don't...that doesn't make me more likely to want to try it. It just makes me think that person is pushy.

Again, I'm not saying that you have to like ketchup. I'm just saying you're (general you're, not specific you're) close-minded if you say anyone who likes ketchup can't cook if you yourself refuse to try ketchup at all, and that's something that happens in this fandom a lot.

Edit: To simplify, a summary of my arguments because I know that my posts are legit long and possibly go everywhere:

1. It's not that much harder to create fakemon than it is to create a fan-created region. It doesn't take a creative genius to do both at once and pull it off.

2. Fakemon are fan-created species, which in turn are very much like fan-created characters because the problems that both may suffer are incredibly similar to one another (if not the same in the case of fakemon that happen to be characters within the fic).

3. If you create a fan-created region that isn't based on anything else within canon and is in fact removed from the canon regions, you need to have an explanation as to why that region is populated solely with canon Pokémon. This is because:
- 3a. Different climates = different species.
- 3b. Different geographies = different species.
- 3c. It's far easier to create a population that fits your world instead of attempt to force someone else's creations to do it.

4. Point #3 is why canon regions that have more new Pokémon than old (like Hoenn, Sinnoh, and Unova) make sense.

5. Point #3 does not mean that I think you should populate your fan-created region with only fakemon. It means that there's logic behind creating a region with them, and that's because you're creating an entirely new space. At no point have I said that you should never use canon Pokémon ever in a fan region. I said that if you can explain why they're there, feel free to use canon Pokémon. (See the Psyduck example.) However, in many cases, it just makes more sense to use fakemon because you have a brand-new area that canonmon won't necessarily fit. For example, you can't put Snover in a region based on Antarctica for fairly obvious reasons (read: it's a desert), but you can put Piplup and Spheal there. But if you put an entire region there for whatever reason, it'd be boring if all you had was Piplup and Spheal, so it's up to you to come up with other Pokémon to put there because there's not that many Pokémon that would logically hang around the Antarctic. (What if, for example, you actually wanted Fire-types down there? Most current Fire-types are designed with the idea that they're going to be around hot areas, not in a cold place like the Antarctic. Yes, you can have Growlithe hang around human settlements, but what if you wanted a pack of wild ones?) Likewise, you might be able to put Cacturne and Claydol in a region based on the American Southwest, but if you wanted a lizard, you can't really put Kecleon there (because chameleons don't live there naturally). You can't really put Charmander there either unless you want to make starters readily available. Bagon might work, but what if you wanted something that wasn't a Dragon-type for obvious reasons? What if you also wanted the other flora and fauna of the Southwest but can't force Marill to be a kangaroo mouse or Sudowoodo to be a juniper tree? That's why, yes, you'd need fakemon.
5a. In other words, fakemon are functional ideas. Writers "bother" with them (to take a word from your earlier post) because canonmon can't fit every situation or location. You can try, but you'd be stretching yourself so much you might as well just create a fakemon to the exact specifications you need.

6. Tl;dr, fakemon are not pointless, which was my entire argument besides "I think it's rather silly for people to say that fakemon is a weak concept in all cases." Likewise, there's no reason to believe that multiple fakemon at once will be badly executed if you can tell that the rest of the writer's skill isn't that bad, and there's really no reason to say that fakemon as a concept are any worse or any different than original characters from an objective standpoint (like a lot of people in this fandom seem to argue).

So yes, I'd say it's fair to claim the fandom upholds slight double-standards because lots of people blow off fakemon as being a terrible concept without even giving them a try but have no problems with fan regions or fan characters, even if they don't realize that's what they're doing. It's one thing to not like something, but it's another to judge someone or their work without even giving them a try just because you automatically think their work isn't going to be good because it features X. I mean, I don't read a lot of romance, but I don't think that every romance novel is automatically subpar compared to what I do read. I just don't really care for reading romance novels. (Fun side note: But this doesn't mean that I won't.) But there's so many people in this fandom who automatically think anime-verse fic or shounen ai or shipping fic or fakemon fic or insert something else here is going to be terrible without even reading it, just because it happens to be anime-verse, shounen ai, shipping fic, fakemon fic, or insert something else here, and frankly, that's the part that I object to because that belittles the writers of those things before they even get started and discourages them from bothering to go after something they want to write (because they know they'll be pre-judged for it/there's no way it will ever get attention because it's not something everyone else likes).

[Ememew]

I honestly don’t mind fakemon. Heck, the main reason I haven’t written about any of my original Pokémon is because I’m still holding out hope that I’ll find a way to convince Gamefreak to include them as real Pokémon in a future gen I wrote the story I made them for when I was probably about ten or twelve and it was full of Sues and plot points that didn’t make a whole lot of sense. Even looking back now, I think my fakemon were fine but I’d have to do a huge amount of rewriting the human characters and plot if I were to ever try to post it for people to read. (Well, that, and the fact that some of my fakemon have since been made redundant by realmon that filled the same niche – such as Leafeon acting as a Grass Eeveelution over “Seedeon”). But enough about feeding my own ego . . .

I liked Ememew's Weak, which was about Iris and Bianca.

OK, now I’ve done enough feeding my own ego (thanks for the compliment, by the way). I just happen to see fakemon as equivalent of anything else original added into a fic. As long as they’re well established through the author’s description and kept consistent (i.e. don’t change its powers around midway or give different individuals of the same species contradictory traits without adequately explaining why they would be different from each other), they can be interesting additions to a story. The inclusion of original trainers doesn’t mean canon characters have to be entirely absent from a story – an OC can meet up with such characters as Brock, Fantina or Burgh, people in a fake region can reference events in a canon one or have old Pokémon available to capture. Heck, a fakemon region might even have a mix of some canon critters wandering around with their original counterparts. Likewise, Pokémon and characters can be equally well or poorly written based on whether the author writes them well, not based on whether they’re fan-made or canon.

I know Unova’s already been brought up, but I really do think the same principle applies. The first B/W games did not include any of the past regions’ Pokémon until the postgame. Is it really only because it was put together by Gamefreak and released officially that the new species introduced are considered Pokémon? Or is it the other points (types, abilities, the fact that they’re caught in Pokéballs, etc.) that make apparent that it takes place in the same universe that make them so?

Though, just a question: Why are fan-made Pokemon called “fake”mon while fan-made characters are called “original characters?” Aren’t they both just as “fake” or “original” as the other? Or is this term just a holdover from other parts of fandom? (I hope I don't sound like I'm reading too much into this by this question. I guess it's just that since I like writing, I spend a lot of time thinking about how word-choice alone influences one's opinion on something.)

[Phoenixsong]

Ememew: I can't claim to know the full fan-etymology of either, but I would assume it's a holdover of some sort. There are, for the record, people who call fakemon "original pokémon" (not many, but there are), and I've seen people object to the use of the term "original character" with a preference for "fan character" instead. I'd guess "fake character" just sounds a little awkward to most people, though I will note I've also seen "fake gym leader", "fake Elite Four", "fake professor", etc..

To the topic at large, big bouncing disclaimer time: I like fakemon. I make fakemon. I make kind of a lot of fakemon, complete with their own regions and related characters and stats. Were I able to devote more time to fic-reading in general, I'd probably spend more time actively looking for fanfic that involves them (Rebirth has fakemon? oh, great, all the more reason for me to feel worse about not having had time to start in on it yet). Possibly I am slightly biased when it comes to discussing their inclusion in a wider range of creative works.

That said, no, for the most part I would not post any fanfic relating to those regions on a place like Serebii, at least not anytime soon. The simple reason is that there just isn't an audience for it here, or not one that's very vocal about the fact that they enjoy such things. Some people like Dragonfree and a few others who've been mentioned (though Dragonfree's fic is the only one out of those I've read personally) have done well for themselves, and so maybe something I might hypothetically post might catch a few dedicated readers, but I wouldn't count on it, and that's fine. If I do write anything I'll post it first and foremost on my own dedicated fakedex site, or on deviantART, because I know that people who visit my site or my dA gallery are already doing so specifically because they want to see what's up with my silly fakemans. Bad thing about those is that they're not the best venues for constructive reviews (or any reviews at all, in the case of my site), so I might theoretically try a site like Serebii for those fics down the line, but I absolutely understand that it would be posted in a place where people have no prior context, where they tend not to prefer this sort of thing, and where, yes, it might seem a little overwhelming if they don't know what they're getting into.

Now, it doesn't bug me at all that some people don't like fakes, and it doesn't matter all that much to me what their reason for disliking fakes is. Some people just don't care for fakemon, and I'd no more expect them to go out of their way to give a fakemon fic a chance than I myself would want to give any particularly shipping-heavy fanfic a chance. Don't like, don't read! Simple as that. What strikes me as unfair is the generalization (that many people make, not just anyone in this topic) that because I've chosen to include any number fakemon in my fic that that's somehow going to be detrimental to its overall enjoyability, that I'm "taking on too much" or "unable to make them feel as real or as necessary as canon pokémon" or whatever. With all due respect, you don't know that I can't do that, at least not without giving it a chance, and it is a bit insulting to hear anyone word it that way. If you don't want to read fakemon fics because you would rather see attention paid to underrated canonmon, or for whatever other reason, then I can respect that and won't go out of my way to change your mind, but I'd feel a bit better if someone skipped reading my hypothetical fakemon fic just because they don't like the subject matter than because they're making the assumption that the very inclusion of that subject matter will drag its quality down. Are science-fiction stories involving aliens automatically of a lesser quality if those aliens are an author-created species/race as opposed to something more traditional, like a grey, a xenomorph or the Mothman?

To paraphrase Jax, if I write a story with fakemon in it and the fakemon become a genuine distraction, that speaks to my ability to handle that sort of creature or character as a writer; it has absolutely nothing to do with the feasibility of fakemon being in fanfic. At this point in time I can safely say that any fakemon fic I tried to post here probably would be bad and distracting, but that's because I'm rusty as all get-out when it comes to writing in general. It'd be every bit as bad if I posted a fic about Sabrina or a pikachu or an OC starting a journey in Unova or whatever else. But I like to think that I do a good job creating my fakemon as far as making a fakedex goes—really, it's completely accurate to say that what I'm doing is a worldbuilding exercise, its entire point being making these things, the people who live with them and the regions they live in look at least a little believable—and so I'd also like to think that if I could get my writing up to par that those fakemon would fit into the story I'm trying to tell as naturally and enjoyably as anything else.

[Crystal]

I would like to add my another argument here, where this is no more problems of writer or reader themselves, but rather the Pokemon franchise itself, and the perspective of we as a Pokemon fan.

The main selling characters for the whole Pokemon franchise is the species of monster that called "Pokemon", not the human characters, not the region, not the culture of the Pokemon world, nor the principles or laws of how the Pokemon World functions. The franchise can keeps on marketing with purely only the Pokemon species without the human being, without a specific known region, without the principal culture of the Pokemon World. But, without that principal species of creature called "Pokemon", Pokemon is not Pokemon, and other things that related to Pokemon will not be so popular then.
I know there are fans that loves purely the things that are not the creature species of Pokemon, such as the human characters, the regions, the world, and other things. But still, we as a fan of Pokemon fall in love first with the Pokemon species, then secondly came those things that are not Pokemon. Yes, one may grow the love of the latter to a level higher than the Pokemon creature itself, but if it was not the Pokemon creature itself, the fans won't started to love those things that are related to Pokemon.
And we as a fan of Pokemon, grew to adapt the Pokemon franchise just like that. That's why other than the main series RPG, the Pokemon Company also made many spin-off games like Pokemon Stadium series or Pokemon Battle Revolution (no specific set region), Pokemon Dungeon series and Pokepark series (no human character), Pokeon Ranger series (no Pokemon battles as in the main series), Trading cards (nothing to do with the Pokemon World itself at all), and many others, and yet we bought its goods and ideas.
Also forget to mention, one should have notice that in the Pokemon franchise, different human characters and different region/world were designed for different medias and different series. In the anime, we have Ash, but that is techincally not Red in the game, nor Red in Adventure manga; then onto the 2nd Gen we have Gold/Ethan and Crys/Lyra; 3rd Gen of Brendon and May... the list goes on. Other than the principal regions of Kanto/Johto/Hoenn/Shinnoh/Unova, we have Orre, Fiore, Almia, Olivia, and many unnamed ones that features in other medias. So even in the canon, the protagonist(s) and regions and the world are keep on changing, new ones are always develop for the new media, there is just not a fixed world in the Pokemon franchise. The only thing that is being fixed will only be the creature species that called "Pokemon".

Therefore, I understand that most writers' idea of "If Game Freak can keeps on building new regions and new Pokemon, why can't I?". Yes obviously, anyone are more than welcome to do so if they wanted to, but just wanted to say, creating original human characters and original world is one thing, creating original fan-created Pokemon is another thing.
Given that a fan work is set in a different Pokemon World with distinctive human characters, but as long as there exists the canon Pokemon creature in the work, fans will still accept it as Pokemon, doesn't matter where/when/how the Pokemon were portrayed in that media. This is not only for fan work, but also in canon works; they tend to alter everything but just not the Pokemon creature itself. (Take the example of Pokemon Conquest, or even the Pokemon Reburst manga)

I guess fan-created region and characters can pull it off more easily than fan-created Pokemon is because the Pokemon species is cored to the franchise. In the point of view of most fans, Pokemon that are not published by Game Freak will not 'feel' like "Pokemon", even though you titled it as Pokemon (One fact: I don't know how many people knew about this, but in the olden days where Gameboy Color still existed, Telefang series was bootleggedly translated into English as Pokemon Jade/Diamond, where very few of the Pokemon fan accept it as Pokemon). And hence, fanfic that features only Fakemons will not be that popular among Pokemon fans, and fanfic writers generally don't attempt to do so because Fakemon is not the Pokemon they loved.
Please remember, we fanfic writers write fanfic because we loved the canon work. Fan artist creates original fan-made Pokemon also because they loved the canon Pokemon. But very seldom we write fanfic of fan-made Pokemon because the love for Fakemon is only second after the canon Pokemon. If one is not interested in Fakemon from the first place, then one will not write fanfic of Fakemon.


*** And to JX:
I guess you went a little overboard on the issue of WHY original fan-created region should populated with canon Pokemon. Yes, creating an original world doesn't mean one can do whatever he wanted, climate/geography/location are all important points to consider when placing certain species of canon Pokemon in the original region, but I think you are a little bit over-concerned, because even in the canon Pokedex, it already describes what kind of habitat environment the Pokemon would dwell in. If the writer decided that habitat of Spheal should be in a volcano, we can only say that he did it wrongly to the absolute extent, but that doesn't mean he must then develop Fakemon for his own original region. All he need to do is just to reconsider the placement of habitat for different Pokemon.
One would need to create Fakemon only if one creates a world that has climate and geography that is absolutely incomparable to the canon Pokemon World.

[JX Valentine]

Therefore, I understand that most writers' idea of "If Game Freak can keeps on building new regions and new Pokemon, why can't I?". Yes obviously, anyone are more than welcome to do so if they wanted to, but just wanted to say, creating original human characters and original world is one thing, creating original fan-created Pokemon is another thing.

First and foremost, no, I wasn't denying that Pokémon are what are most familiar to fans, but you'll want to keep in mind that canon already does things like this. Think about it. Pikachu is the Pokémon franchise's mascot, but they don't appear in Black or White. In fact, most pre-V Pokémon don't appear before the E4. Does this automatically make Black and White not Pokémon because they feature mostly Gen V 'mons? No. So let's say a fan created Unova, not Game Freak. Does this automatically mean that Unova wouldn't be familiar because it doesn't feature Pokémon that were created just for that particular region? No. The fundamentals of what makes Pokémon what it is are still there. It's just that the Pokémon that existed before Unova aren't.

While, yes, Unova is a canon region, no one can argue that it deviated so far from the franchise that it's no longer recognizably Pokémon. So it's difficult to argue that the same would happen if a capable writer created their own region but followed Unova's (and Hoenn's and Sinnoh's) lead by stocking the region with a bunch of fakemon. That doesn't automatically make their writing sub-par compared to trainer fics set in canon regions or in fan-created regions where the Pokémon are completely canon.

In fact, to add another point, if we're going to use the "Game Freak did this or that" argument, then it would be awkward if there were absolutely no fan-created Pokémon for the simple reason that Game Freak doesn't release a new main region without them.

Moreover, again, creating a fan-created Pokémon has a lot of similarities to creating original characters in other fandoms. If you're okay, for example, with writing an entire Digimon fanfic with different Digidestined (even ones teamed up with underrated canon Digimon) or a Sailor Moon fanfic focusing on fan-created senshi or a Harry Potter fanfic that focuses on witches and wizards who aren't in some way connected to Harry and company going to Hogwarts, then you really shouldn't have any problem with a writer creating a fan-made Pokémon.

Pokemon that are not published by Game Freak will not 'feel' like "Pokemon", even though you titled it as Pokemon (One fact: I don't know how many people knew about this, but in the olden days where Gameboy Color still existed, Telefang series was bootleggedly translated into English as Pokemon Jade/Diamond, where very few of the Pokemon fan accept it as Pokemon).

But what's the difference between Jade/Diamond and Black/White? Both feature mostly Pokémon (or "Pokémon" in the case of Jade/Diamond) that weren't seen prior to the release of the games, a completely new region, completely new characters, and so forth. And given that the bootlegs were fashioned to look exactly like something that was released by Game Freak (because that was the point), we can't rightly say that fans looked at whether or not Game Freak released those Pokémon as the one factor that caused them to think it wasn't Pokémon. So what was the difference?

Telefang was literally a different game. You weren't a trainer. You didn't catch Pokémon in balls. You used your cell phone to call them. The Pokémon spoke and were unique characters. Even the battle screen was completely different. Black/White, if you looked at it for five seconds without taking note of the Pokémon, looks exactly like a Pokémon game. The battle style is the same, the basic storyline (that you're a trainer) is the same, the capture method is the same, and so forth. It's the basics that make Black/White a Pokémon game, not the Pokémon themselves.

That's why you have a lot of hacks floating around out there that confuse people. There are actually die-hard Pokémon fans out there (or fans who claim to be die-hard) who swear that games like Pokémon Chaos Black or Pokémon Quartz are actual games. It's not because they feature canon Pokémon (because they don't at all); it's because the basics and graphics are so similar that they simply think they're real games.

And hence, fanfic that features only Fakemons will not be that popular among Pokemon fans,

It depends on where and when you go. They actually used to be decently popular on FFNet and certain (mostly defunct) large-scale forums back in the day. They're not entirely in-vogue now, but it's not like they're unheard of.

Please remember, we fanfic writers write fanfic because we loved the canon work.

Well, of course, but the beauty of Pokémon is that it's a sandbox. You're encouraged just as much to develop new worlds and new characters for it as you are to write about canon material. I mean, canon practically pounds it into your head with all franchise material that there's really no limit to the number of Pokémon that could possibly exist, and we only see a tiny piece of the world at any given time. Because we're not bound to one particular character's story the way we are in other fandoms, we're free to explore the rest of the world as we see fit. We're not deviating from the canon. We're expanding on canon by exploring a piece of the world that canon hasn't yet covered. So long as the basics are there, of course.

Fan artist creates original fan-made Pokemon also because they loved the canon Pokemon.

Which means that there's really no reason why a fanfic author should be discouraged from writing about fan-made Pokémon, so long as they can translate the same kinds of ideas that fan artists create into words. Why would a concept be okay in one form of fan expression but taboo in another, even if the fan knows what they're doing when they tackle it?

I guess you went a little overboard on the issue of WHY original fan-created region should populated with canon Pokemon. Yes, creating an original world doesn't mean one can do whatever he wanted, climate/geography/location are all important points to consider when placing certain species of canon Pokemon in the original region, but I think you are a little bit over-concerned, because even in the canon Pokedex, it already describes what kind of habitat environment the Pokemon would dwell in. If the writer decided that habitat of Spheal should be in a volcano, we can only say that he did it wrongly to the absolute extent, but that doesn't mean he must then develop Fakemon for his own original region. All he need to do is just to reconsider the placement of habitat for different Pokemon.

I'd hate to say it, but I think you missed the point. Or at least the one in italicized, bold letters, anyway, because I had literally six very rambling points there.

I wasn't saying that a writer should put Spheal in a volcano. (Yes, I know it was an example, but I'm going off that to form another example.) I was saying that if a writer wants to create a region in which there's a volcano, they should be free to do so. However, they should think of what Pokémon would logically live there. If they want to put canon Pokémon like Slugma and Magmar there, by all means, but if they want, say, a Flying-type that can survive extreme heat but isn't Moltres, then they may want to come up with something else. The story will dictate what a writer needs, and the terrain they've already created will dictate what options they have.

In other words, you've got my point backwards. I was saying that a writer should feel free to create their region's geography and climate and whatnot to whatever specifications that they want, but they shouldn't force Pokémon to fit the habitats they create. Pokémon need to be either chosen according to the habitat you have or created to the specifications that you want.

Or in other words...

One would need to create Fakemon only if one creates a world that has climate and geography that is absolutely incomparable to the canon Pokemon World.

Congratulations. You agree with me.

But to clarify, there's a lot of situations where that would apply because, as I've said earlier, every region in the world is different. The United States isn't Japan, for example, so that's why Unova Pokémon are different from Kanto and Johto Pokémon. Hence why, yes, you will most likely find yourself in a situation where you'll need to create new Pokémon to suit your needs. Or in short, there's really no reason why we as a fandom should be discouraging people from writing multiple fakemon. If someone wants to write a fic in which 75% of all Pokémon that appear in that region are fan-created, there's absolutely no reason why we should be telling them that their fic will be harder to write or that their fic will be automatically sub-par compared to fics that take place in canon regions, no matter what they do. Unfortunately, that's what a lot of people tend to say (usually when they attempt to explain their dislike for fakemon beyond "I just don't care for them"), and frankly, that's basically telling a writer what they can and can't write. That would be like me telling you that your trainer fic set in a canon region is automatically terrible just because it's a trainer fic set in a canon region and that you shouldn't be writing a trainer fic set in a canon region because no one cares, and if I did that, I'm pretty sure you wouldn't be okay with it. :/

[Crystal]

@ JX:

It seems that my discussion is out of sync with yours. And I dislike your way of answering by quoting the bits and pieces which deforms the meaning of the whole paragraph.

I'm not here to discourage writers to write fanfic of fan-created Pokemon, I was just analyzing why writers don't tend to write fic of fan-created Pokemon.

Just like I had said before, creating an original world is one thing, creating original human characters is one thing, and creating original Pokemon is another thing. As I see that you mix the issue of Pokemon with human being because they are both "characters" in a fic. Well, it is true to certain extent, but they are in fact two technically distinctive kinds of characters which serves different functions in the fic, hence they should be treated differently. Don't try to blend these three issues together, because they are not the same.

[JX Valentine]

It seems that my discussion is out of sync with yours. And I dislike your way of answering by quoting the bits and pieces which deforms the meaning of the whole paragraph.

I'd hate to say it, but yeah, out-of-sync is right. For these two points in particular, really:

1. If it did distort your meaning, I apologize. But keep in mind that that's simply my way of responding to people (i.e., not unique to the way I'm conversing with you); sometimes, there are specific points in a paragraph that I want to address. This doesn't mean that I'm blowing off or attempting to distort the other points made in the same paragraph. I try as hard as I can to address the main point of what you're saying (as I see it) in what I say when I quote. If I missed the point, bring it up by quoting me back. Otherwise, I'm going to assume that I got your basic meaning in one go.

2. You're accusing me of doing the exact same thing you're doing to my posts. That earlier post of mine was responding to your accusation that I was going overboard by letting you know you missed the point and the point was X. (X being that list at the end of my post before that.) If you want to make the discussion personal, be careful in responding to your opposition.

The main issue, though, is that I think you're focusing too much on how I say things instead of what I'm saying. I've already addressed thoroughly why the two points (fan Pokémon and fan characters) are fundamentally the same; I really don't know what else I can add because, honestly, I could just copy and paste my arguments to create a valid response to this discussion. But I'd like to think I'm also not that much of a jerk, so I won't. All I can ask is that if you want to argue against my points, please address them instead of restating your opinion, which incidentally is subjective and vague in your last post, if you don't mind me saying. What makes the two distinctive in your view, for example? How and why are they different? I've been extremely specific (or as specific as I can be) as to how they're the same or so similar that many fans normally don't see a discernible difference between fakemon and canonmon, but you don't really address any of those points that I made. If you want to say that they're not the same, then explain why you say they're not the same (preferably using arguments that I can't refute the way I have been so far by bringing up canon examples and other examples in fandom). It would help the discussion immensely, not only to offer a different perspective but also to potentially add to whatever list of tips we're constructing in creating fan-created regions.

Otherwise, your theory as to why fakemon fic isn't popular is a decent one, but like I said earlier to Dragonfree, if it's true, then that's sad that our fandom pre-judges work by authors who want to expand on canon. But even beyond that, I don't think that many people really consider Game Freak when it comes to fakemon because, as you and I have both mentioned earlier, fakemon is insanely popular in the fan art realm. Why doesn't it translate to the fanfiction realm, then?

Beyond that, my main point still stands concerning fakemon. If your theory is correct and if the fandom itself discourages fakemon fic by encouraging readers to pre-judge a story's quality based solely on whether or not it contains multiple fakemon (as opposed to judging a story's quality based on how it's actually written), then that's something we should work to correct.

[Negrek]

Though, just a question: Why are fan-made Pokemon called “fake”mon while fan-made characters are called “original characters?” Aren’t they both just as “fake” or “original” as the other? Or is this term just a holdover from other parts of fandom? (I hope I don't sound like I'm reading too much into this by this question. I guess it's just that since I like writing, I spend a lot of time thinking about how word-choice alone influences one's opinion on something.)

I'd be extremely surprised if anyone could actually offer a definitive answer to this question, but for me, anyway, it's got to be the delicious punniness of "fakemon" alongside "pokemon." It's just two letters off! Sometimes I read it as "fakémon" to amuse myself. You just can't do that with "origmon," or any other portmanteau you'd want to make out of "original pokémon"--and "original pokémon" is definitely a drag to type out, so it would have to get shortened somehow (to "OP" if nothing else). "Fakemon" comes pre-condensed and is easy to type.

I'm totally with you on enjoying thinking about why certain words win out over others, or why some just seem to "sound right" when others don't. Fandom is great for that, since it's such a rapidly-evolving place that's constantly churning out its own jargon.

[Dragonfree]

I'd imagine "fake Pokémon" comes from the fact that back in the day fake Pokémon weren't usually honest creative projects by fans, but rumoured Pokémon that were purported to exist on the actual game. When people were making a distinction between real Pokémon and those rumours, calling them "fake" made sense, because they were fake and not real; the focus was on the claim that these were actual Pokémon, not on who actually made them up. And even honest creative projects would get passed around and purported to be real, or people would misunderstand them to be real if they weren't clearly stated to be "fake".

Meanwhile, there wasn't the same kind of flood of supposed original characters rumoured to be in the game that weren't really; original characters were always created by artists and writers who honestly stated them to be original characters.

[Tigereye13]

Just like I had said before, creating an original world is one thing, creating original human characters is one thing, and creating original Pokemon is another thing. As I see that you mix the issue of Pokemon with human being because they are both "characters" in a fic. Well, it is true to certain extent, but they are in fact two technically distinctive kinds of characters which serves different functions in the fic, hence they should be treated differently. Don't try to blend these three issues together, because they are not the same.

Maybe this is because I’ve just recently joined Serebii, but I don’t see much of a difference between creating original Pokémon and original human characters. To me they’re just OCs. Some of the elements might be different but when you get to the core of it they’re just a character created by the writer.

I get that you’re talking about creating a species instead creating a member of a species but what if I’m writing fantasy? Am I only allowed to use creatures that have already been created (example dragons and unicorns)? Since saying that I am only allowed to use previously created fantasy creatures is very restrictive to me as a writer. I know that it is not the same thing, but it seems like the same general concept. As long as the species is well written, kept consistent, and incorporated into the story well I don’t see any issue with creating your own species of Pokémon.

I guess what I’m saying is that a work of fiction shouldn’t be judged on whether something is included, but rather on how it is worked into the story.

Please remember, we fanfic writers write fanfic because we loved the canon work. Fan artist creates original fan-made Pokemon also because they loved the canon Pokemon. But very seldom we write fanfic of fan-made Pokemon because the love for Fakemon is only second after the canon Pokemon. If one is not interested in Fakemon from the first place, then one will not write fanfic of Fakemon.

Wait, now I’m really confused. What is the difference between someone making fan art and someone writing a fanfic about original pokémon? That seems kind of bizarre that in one part of fandom it is ok to create your own pokémon but is not in this other one.

[Crystal]

Maybe this is because I’ve just recently joined Serebii, but I don’t see much of a difference between creating original Pokémon and original human characters. To me they’re just OCs. Some of the elements might be different but when you get to the core of it they’re just a character created by the writer.

You had answered your own question.
Yeah, it is true that Pokemon and human are both characters, creating original Pokemon and creating original human characters is literally meaning creating original characters. But the point is the different role they play in the Pokemon World, which results in different treatment. And that subtle differences was in fact the key point to separate original human character and original (fan-created) Pokemon.

I get that you’re talking about creating a species instead creating a member of a species but what if I’m writing fantasy? Am I only allowed to use creatures that have already been created (example dragons and unicorns)? Since saying that I am only allowed to use previously created fantasy creatures is very restrictive to me as a writer. As long as the species is well written, kept consistent, and incorporated into the story well I don’t see any issue with creating your own species of Pokémon.

That depends on are you writing fiction or fanfiction. Please understand that there are differences between the two. If you are writing fictions, no one will restrict your mind of imagination.
Well, though, there are no solid rules written in stone that fanfic writer must used only what was provided by the canon when writing their fic. But when writing fanfic, there exist some kind of invisible boundaries in every writers mind, which somehow restrict the writers (and the reader as well) to stick to canon. If the fanfic writer go beyond that boundary, it will be like one had alienated him/herself from the main group. It is not anything about bad or wrong, because everyone has the freedom to go beyond that boundary if they wanted to, but normally very few will try to do so because of the loneliness one might experience if they go beyond it. So if you feel you have the guts to go beyond that canon boundary, you are really free to do so.

What is the difference between someone making fan art and someone writing a fanfic about original pokémon? That seems kind of bizarre that in one part of fandom it is ok to create your own pokémon but is not in this other one.

I guess the main difference is the visualizability in fan art section and fanfic section. If you designed your own original Pokemon, one single illustration will talk more than one hundred words. Where I suppose that is the major reason why Fakemon is not popular among fanfic because you cannot visualize it, no matter how well you describes it.
Well, if one could provide the illustration of that Fakemon in your story, it may still work. The rest of your fic will depends on your skill as a writer.

[Tigereye13]

You had answered your own question.

What question did I self-answer there? I don’t recall asking one that was answered by what I said there.

Yeah, it is true that Pokemon and human are both characters, creating original Pokemon and creating original human characters is literally meaning creating original characters. But the point is the different role they play in the Pokemon World, which results in different treatment. And that subtle differences was in fact the key point to separate original human character and original (fan-created) Pokemon.

I just don’t get why one would be more off limits than the other. With both you would need to have them be well written, kept consistent in what they can do, and be incorporated into the story well.

That depends on are you writing fiction or fanfiction. Please understand that there are differences between the two. If you are writing fictions, no one will restrict your mind of imagination.

I know that they are different from each other, but I was using fantasy as an example for something that was of a similar concept. Pokémon are in a sense fantasy creatures. And if someone can write an original pokémon within the rules of the Pokémon universe, shouldn’t they be allowed to create their own pokémon?

Well, though, there are no solid rules written in stone that fanfic writer must used only what was provided by the canon when writing their fic. But when writing fanfic, there exist some kind of invisible boundaries in every writers mind, which somehow restrict the writers (and the reader as well) to stick to canon. If the fanfic writer go beyond that boundary, it will be like one had alienated him/herself from the main group. It is not anything about bad or wrong, because everyone has the freedom to go beyond that boundary if they wanted to, but normally very few will try to do so because of the loneliness one might experience if they go beyond it. So if you feel you have the guts to go beyond that canon boundary, you are really free to do so.

This boundary sounds like it would be very dependent from person to person. Some people might say that you can’t change canon pairings, others that you can’t create OCs, or that people shouldn’t create their own pokémon, and the list can go on.

By saying that the writer must stick to canon, doesn’t that mean that no one should make original regions or original human characters since they are not part of canon?

I guess the main difference is the visualizability in fan art section and fanfic section. If you designed your own original Pokemon, one single illustration will talk more than one hundred words. Where I suppose that is the major reason why Fakemon is not popular among fanfic because you cannot visualize it, no matter how well you describes it.
Well, if one could provide the illustration of that Fakemon in your story, it may still work. The rest of your fic will depends on your skill as a writer.

But isn’t everyone going to visualize an OC a bit differently than each other? If I describe a character with “short, brown hair” aren’t people going to come away with different ideas about how the person’s hair will look? Different shades of brown ranging from light to dark along with what different people might interpret as different lengths for short. I don’t see how a pokémon would be that different since each reader will come away with some variances.

[Ememew]

That depends on are you writing fiction or fanfiction. Please understand that there are differences between the two. If you are writing fictions, no one will restrict your mind of imagination.

Well, yes. A Pokémon fic is going to be about Pokémon. But this doesn't mean it has to be limited to existing species. A writer can be a fan of the concept of a magical pet able to use moves of various types, can be carried around in a ball, and may be able to transform into a different creature under certain circumstances. Often, young people travel through a region with these creatures and use them in contests of strength or skill against other trainers. The very inclusion of new species with every generation (to me anyway) makes it seem intuitive that a new region could or would include new monsters native to that area.

Creating a new creature to fill this slot doesn’t mean they aren’t writing about Pokémon, they’re just adding a new addition to the concept of Pokémon rather than using one that Gamefreak made. Even the regional Dexes don’t include the same species all the time – they’re as rotated in and out as the characters and regions. What makes it Pokémon is how the creatures work, not their inclusion in an official list of 649 species (that will no doubt continue to be added to in canon).

But when writing fanfic, there exist some kind of invisible boundaries in every writer’s mind, which somehow restrict the writers (and the reader as well) to stick to canon. If the fanfic writer go beyond that boundary, it will be like one had alienated him/herself from the main group. It is not anything about bad or wrong, because everyone has the freedom to go beyond that boundary if they wanted to, but normally very few will try to do so because of the loneliness one might experience if they go beyond it. So if you feel you have the guts to go beyond that canon boundary, you are really free to do so.

What “goes too far” over the boundary is different for different readers, so I don’t get where all this talk of “alienation” and shunning is coming from. Again, not liking fakemon (or anything else in fanfics that might cross one’s boarder of what is and isn’t acceptable) is fine, but I’m not sure why it’s treated like a taboo.

There’s no set standard in fanfics that the inclusion of “new” stuff can include X and Y, but cannot include concept Z. Yes, writers need to respect the established canon, (i.e. you probably shouldn’t say that Unova takes place on the moon or that Darkrai is suddenly a Fire-type) but when it comes to new additions, I just don’t see why an entire region/country/continent with its unique culture, politics, and history is just par for the course but a new animal is something over the boundary.

I guess the main difference is the visualizability in fan art section and fanfic section. If you designed your own original Pokemon, one single illustration will talk more than one hundred words. Where I suppose that is the major reason why Fakemon is not popular among fanfic because you cannot visualize it, no matter how well you describes it.

But what if a person is more comfortable with describing something with words than with their drawing abilities? What if you’re creating a new creature that isn’t a Pokémon for a story? You have to describe those, too. What if you want to do more with your creation that have it be something to look at but rather also want to show how it moves, how it explores the world around it, how a trainer might find the experience of raising one?

Well, if one could provide the illustration of that Fakemon in your story, it may still work. The rest of your fic will depends on your skill as a writer.

You can write an alien creature for an original science fiction story without having to provide an illustration, so why would a new species in a fanfic require it?

I’m not trying to say it’s bad to not like fakemon, I just want to demonstrate why I think they would not in and of themselves be bad in a story.

[Wishing Star]

Maybe this is because I’ve just recently joined Serebii, but I don’t see much of a difference between creating original Pokémon and original human characters. To me they’re just OCs. Some of the elements might be different but when you get to the core of it they’re just a character created by the writer.

When you're talking about the core of things, yeah, both original Pokémon and original human characters (original aliens, original animals, what have you) are just original characters. And it's not each of those different categories of original characters themselves that make readers associate different categories with different roles. It's the way the author uses these different categories of original characters in their stories that makes the reader associate these categories with different roles.

For example, a story that is focused on the journey of a trainer in an original region but with hardly any focus on original Pokémon doesn't necessarily need all those fine details that a story focused on the interaction between original Pokémon and human characters would need. In one story, the original Pokémon's roles are not that vital; in the other, their roles are critical.

I get that you’re talking about creating a species instead creating a member of a species but what if I’m writing fantasy? Am I only allowed to use creatures that have already been created (example dragons and unicorns)? Since saying that I am only allowed to use previously created fantasy creatures is very restrictive to me as a writer. I know that it is not the same thing, but it seems like the same general concept. As long as the species is well written, kept consistent, and incorporated into the story well I don’t see any issue with creating your own species of Pokémon.

I don't, either. As another example, if an author makes a Pokémon that, by its description, one assumes it's a dragon, but the author actually intends for it to be a unicorn, either that author has not described the Pokémon well enough, or the reader doesn't know the characteristics of the majority of dragons in literature. Whatever the reason, most of the time, it's how good the connection between an original Pokémon and an already-existing element of something can be seen that determines whether or not that original Pokémon is "good."

But sometimes, what the author wants to create is far too different from anything that the reader has an image of already in their mind. The author may not want the reader to associate their Pokémon with something that the reader already knows about. But the reader doesn't know that, so the reader is likely to associate that author-created Pokémon with something that they already know about anyway. And it's that exact ability to associate two different things (or lack thereof) that can determine whether or not a reader thinks a Pokémon is "good".

The difficulty of having that association be there for the majority of readers is extremely difficult, and I think that's why original Pokémon are discouraged from being in stories. But, as you say, as the story continues, the chances of those Pokémon being intertwined well in the story increases, which can really bring the Pokémon to life. Unfortunately, upon reading the first few chapters of a story in which originally-created Pokémon aren't described adequately to begin with, readers are hesitant to continue reading the story.

I guess what I’m saying is that a work of fiction shouldn’t be judged on whether something is included, but rather on how it is worked into the story.

I agree. But at the same time, if original Pokémon are included, they should be adequately brought to life so the reader can envision what is happening.

Wait, now I’m really confused. What is the difference between someone making fan art and someone writing a fanfic about original pokémon? That seems kind of bizarre that in one part of fandom it is ok to create your own pokémon but is not in this other one.

Fundamentally, with fan art (drawings, specifically), all you have to see is the actual artwork. It's there, and you see it. Whether or not it's evocative of any emotion in you, it's still that same piece of artwork.

But with both art and fiction, it's some form of medium (an image, a video, text) that, again, a viewer can associate things with. It's just the media used that is different. So since with both you can expect the same viewer-work interaction, it should be okay to create original Pokémon using either art or fiction. (It's just the method the author or artist has to characterize the original Pokémon that's different, but that's another point.)

You had answered your own question.
Yeah, it is true that Pokemon and human are both characters, creating original Pokemon and creating original human characters is literally meaning creating original characters. But the point is the different role they play in the Pokemon World, which results in different treatment. And that subtle differences was in fact the key point to separate original human character and original (fan-created) Pokemon.

The role [original human characters and original Pokémon] play in the Pokémon world, though, isn't defined by what already exists; it's defined by the author. In a story that focuses mostly on traveling trainers and not so much on Pokémon, of course the role of trainers in the story is magnified more than that of the Pokémon. But if it's a story solely about the Pokémon, then the role of Pokémon is much bigger when compared to those of the human characters.

But it's this exact flexibility in role that allows the description of original Pokémon vary. In the first story, for example, the description could be rather unseen, and the story could still be great. Whereas in the second, much of the description would have to be focused on the Pokémon in order for the story to be acceptable. Either way, if the reader can successfully envision what is happening, then it's a sign that the story is good.

That depends on are you writing fiction or fanfiction. Please understand that there are differences between the two. If you are writing fictions, no one will restrict your mind of imagination.
Well, though, there are no solid rules written in stone that fanfic writer must used only what was provided by the canon when writing their fic. But when writing fanfic, there exist some kind of invisible boundaries in every writers mind, which somehow restrict the writers (and the reader as well) to stick to canon. If the fanfic writer go beyond that boundary, it will be like one had alienated him/herself from the main group. It is not anything about bad or wrong, because everyone has the freedom to go beyond that boundary if they wanted to, but normally very few will try to do so because of the loneliness one might experience if they go beyond it. So if you feel you have the guts to go beyond that canon boundary, you are really free to do so.

By definition, Pokémon fan fiction is fiction that uses elements of the Pokémon world with which to tell the story. Canon is one of these elements. An author doesn't have to use all of those elements. They can use some existing Pokémon and an existing region or two, but no existing characters, for example.

In the same way, an author can decide to use an already-existing character in their story. But by using that character, the author has to consider all the canon that the character brings with them. The author doesn't necessarily have to use all that canon in their story, but it may be that ignorance of canon that may tell a reader whether or not the story appeals to them.

I guess the main difference is the visualizability in fan art section and fanfic section. If you designed your own original Pokemon, one single illustration will talk more than one hundred words. Where I suppose that is the major reason why Fakemon is not popular among fanfic because you cannot visualize it, no matter how well you describes it.
Well, if one could provide the illustration of that Fakemon in your story, it may still work. The rest of your fic will depends on your skill as a writer.

What you say is definitely true.

Which, to be honest, I find really unfair. I don't really find it right to dismiss fan fiction as "bad" just because the reader can't visualize a Pokémon's design immediately upon finishing a chapter of a story.

As far as original regions go, the author should be able to describe them as well as they describe original Pokémon. If an author does try to incorporate both, they should know what their readers expect. All of this is much easier said than done, of course.

[Phoenixsong]

I guess the main difference is the visualizability in fan art section and fanfic section. If you designed your own original Pokemon, one single illustration will talk more than one hundred words. Where I suppose that is the major reason why Fakemon is not popular among fanfic because you cannot visualize it, no matter how well you describes it.

I understand that writing within a fandom carries different expectations than writing something original, and that there are (perfectly valid) reasons for people to prefer the canon over new things. But why is how well you can "visualize" something new vs something canon a part of the problem? If I make up an alien species for my original science-fiction story, but I don't have a picture to go with it, according to this statement people "cannot visualize it, no matter how well I describe it", or at least will never be able to visualize my aliens as well as they can visualize something like a grey or a xenomorph. That is probably quite true; popular culture has planted a firm picture of little green/gray men in the human mind, whereas my aliens have no such prior associations. I absolutely do have to put more effort into describing my aliens and bringing them to life than I would if I just used greys. But no one is telling people who write about original aliens that they should stop and stick to greys and xenomorphs because it's easier to get mental pictures of those creatures. Why is it okay for the fandom to suggest to fakemon authors that they should stick to canon pokémon just because it's easier?

(No, no one here has said that all fakemon authors should outright give up on writing fakemon ever again, but the reasons being cited for why people won't read fakemon fic suggest more or less the same thing. People are saying "I won't read your stuff just because it takes more work on your part to convey it and more work on my part to visualize it"; that, imo, translates to "It's not worth trying because no one wants to put the effort into it". When was the last time you said the same thing to a sci-fi author?)

Yes, there are inherent challenges in making a fakemon enjoyable using only prose. No one denies that it takes more effort to give a clear mental image through words than through a picture. But it's a challenge that is entirely possible to overcome, and it'd be nice if the fanfiction community were more open to giving authors the chance to prove that they can instead of condemning the subject those authors enjoy as the source of the problem. If the only reason someone doesn't like fakemon in fanfic is that their previous experiences with them have been poorly-thought out, why can't they consider giving the subject matter another shot with an author they think does a better job?

Alternatively, since it's entirely possible that an author is perfectly competent but happens to struggle with fakemon for whatever reason, why is that any different from an author who's great at writing action but bad at dialogue? Why not offer the struggling author advice for improving the part they have difficulty with, then enjoy the results of their improvement in that area, instead of dropping an otherwise enjoyable read entirely or blaming dialogue itself as a bad thing about stories?

[Crystal]

It is no use in describing like this.

This discussion had become more like a political discussion between the Conservative Party and the Liberal Democrats. Each had different viewpoints and they are conflicting each other.

Unfortunately, seems like I'm standing on the right-wing.

[Sid87]

Yeah, I talked with Crystal about this, and I REALLY don't get the militant aggressiveness of the pro-Fakemon side (not everybody, but some of them). The difference here is that no one on the anti-Fakemon side is telling anybody what they have to like or being borderline-insulting about it. This is really going to go round and round for ever, and I haven't felt any great urge to engage in it since my last reply because, unlike the pro-Fakemon side, I don't have a great cause for my opinion where I feel I must change everyone's minds. You like Fakemon? Great, go read and write them. You don't like Fakemon? Great, read and write what you do like. Why is that so hard to go with?

[Phoenixsong]

EDIT: Let me rephrase that and try again.

I apologize if anything I've said is coming across as militant. I haven't really had an earnest discussion about fanfic in a while, so it's entirely possible that I got carried away. I will try not to get so emotional about my argument next time.

Yes, this is something I'm passionate about; yes, I think it would be nice if more people would give it a chance. I also wholeheartedly agree that, ultimately, if you don't like something then you don't like it and should not bother with reading it. I know more than one reason has been cited for people not liking fakemon or why they're harder to understand, and I have not argued and won't argue with those reasons because I agree that many of them are valid. But if you outline something as a problem with a concept, you're implying that fixing that problem would change your opinion of that aspect of that concept. I, in turn, have suggested (however irritably, and again I apologize) that it is in fact possible to fix those problems, and so now am asking whether you agree that that would cause you to consider giving the concept another chance. If it still would not matter to you individually, so be it. I am simply interested in hearing opinions from the "anti-fakemon" group on that matter, which so far haven't really been given unless I've seriously misread something.

[JX Valentine]

Why is that so hard to go with?

Because you said yourself that there are people on the anti-fakemon side who automatically assume that works with multiple fakemon in them don't describe them well by default when you said this:

But do I have very little interest in a story revolving around several fakemon because I don't think they'll be fleshed out very well,

That's the point that we're talking about. It's not about whether or not you like them. It's about whether or not you judge someone's work without reading it.

Seriously, that's all we're saying. Don't judge a person's work before you read it. Don't assume that a writer can't handle multiple fakemon in one story. Yes, it's a challenge, but you can't assume that a writer can't handle those kinds of things for the same reason why no one assumes in this fandom that a writer can't handle multiple original characters.

That and basically everything Phoenixsong said.

And I'm sorry for the biting tone of this post. It's just that I've said that it wasn't about liking them and all about whether or not readers were being fair to writers multiple times (as well as the effects that would have on a writer who wants to tackle multiple fakemon, only to be confronted with a community of people who automatically say their work is sub-par compared to everything else in this fandom, even if that's not what they think they're doing), and you guys are still assuming I'm forcing you to like something you don't? Really? It's fine if you want to bow out of the conversation for any reason (even if it's because you feel like you can't convince us to see things your way), but you don't have to guilt-trip your opposition and twist their words in the process. :|

[Crystal]

**cough**

Let's get back on topic then before this thread became personal emotion flaming.

The OP asked the question of why writers do not tend to write Pokemon fic in original region and/or original Pokemon (Fakemon). This question should then divided into two parts of 1) original region and 2) original fan-created Pokemon.

I was interested by this question as a general question about the writing habit of most Pokemon fanfic writer (which include myself as well). I personally don't oppose original regions, because I'm writing a fic about it as well. But I am unfortunately on the anti-Fakemon side when came to fanfic (though fan art is fine for me). Therefore I was merely analyzing the reason why writers don't tend to write fics of Fakemon based on my understanding. Though by doing so won't make me want to write fic of Fakemon, and I will not encourage the ones who don't want to write it from the first place to write such fic. This is more about question of interest of all Pokemon fanfic writer, just like it was said by Sid87.