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Thread: Original regions

  1. #51
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc View Post
    Hate to bump my own post, but that was about 2 weeks ago and I'd rather not start a new thread on the same subject. To the point...

    I've noticed growing aversion to Fakemon, and that bothers me. I'm wondering if there are things that can be done to increase Fakemon appeal. I've got pointers, idea, clever ways to MAKE them, and if anyone wants to know, I could divulge the secrets to making 500+ of them.

    Or does anyone's interest even piqued?
    i'd ay share away. The worst advice is the one not shared. And I'm reading this still, anyway.

    Regarding the new lands anew species coment though,mone of the things I've seen in stories is that you have trainers bringing Pokemon home all the time. Joe catches a Shroomish, sends it to Oak. Shroomish gets bored, hooks up with a nice Paras, and breeds mode Shroomish. Give a Shroomish ten years, and you've got a small populatin of Shroomish going. We see the real world have this problem with rats and some birds, and here trainers ae importing lions aand tigers and bears...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc View Post
    Imagine if you will:

    Gamefreak announces a new 6th generation with a twist: there's nothing new other than the region and its people! There are a total of ZERO new Pokemon! There's nothing there but oldcomers, but this IS the 6th generation fullstop! I'd say you'd think you were getting trolled!


    In all seriousness, my motto is, if you can't be buggered to describe the classics, then don't even bother with the Fakemon descriptions.

    I don't remember where (it was NOT this site) where I saw a Fanfic with Fakemon that had a Fakemon and an Abra. The writer had the audacitic chudspah to say "You already know what Abra looks like but this Fakemon..." NO! Sorry, bad writing. Describe the Abra too! Pretend we've never seen one its kind before!

    The trick is to treat all Pokemon the same while writing your story, even if they're fantasized in your head. If I take time to treat a Ratatta with detail and intrigue as I would a Fudgie or Gawdzoola, then you will fall in love with all 3 given enough time alongside them all.


    That's not to say, an Author should REALLY prepare. Personally, I'm overprepared with 500+ Fakemon. I need help... I'm running out of ideas!

    The point is, a geographic location should have creatures that are newly native to it. It's a law of nature that just makes sense!
    Can I just +1 this entire post? Because pretty much this all over. There's nothing wrong with liking and using canon Pokémon if you can explain why they're there, but there's also absolutely nothing wrong with using fakemon. The first point (that main games introduce Pokémon all the time and that we'd probably feel cheated if a new gen was introduced without any) is pretty much what I was getting at earlier as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc View Post
    I've noticed growing aversion to Fakemon, and that bothers me.
    Completely agreed. No writer should be discouraged from doing something creative, and it feels like the aversion to fakemon is doing just that for a lot of people.

    I'm wondering if there are things that can be done to increase Fakemon appeal. I've got pointers, idea, clever ways to MAKE them, and if anyone wants to know, I could divulge the secrets to making 500+ of them.

    Or does anyone's interest even piqued?
    I'd like to second Glover and say go for it. There's a lot of misconceptions behind creating and using fakemon (in the same sense like there's that one misconception that goes around in other fandoms that all OCs are Mary Sues), so anything that would clear that up would be pretty interesting to see.

    Oh, and speaking of Glover...

    Quote Originally Posted by Glover
    Give a Shroomish ten years, and you've got a small populatin of Shroomish going. We see the real world have this problem with rats and some birds, and here trainers ae importing lions aand tigers and bears...
    Y'know, that is possibly the most reasonable explanation for foreign Pokémon being in a canon region I have ever heard, for serious. A lot of people have a tendency to want to include canon Pokémon from Sinnoh in, say, Unova, and the explanations they give for why they're there tend to be weaker. ("The League wants to introduce species here just because." "It has a desert, so I say Cacnea live here because I'm the author." "Apparently, coconuts do migrate.") But "they're actually an invasive species" is a pretty legit explanation. Assuming, of course, that it's not a researcher who causes the invasion to happen anyway. I mean, I'd imagine someone who thinks "what harm can Buneary do in this Pokémonified Australia" would do it, but probably not someone who understands what an invasive species is.

    Or, hey, maybe coconuts do migrate by themselves.

    (And I'm most certainly not having plot bunnies right now what are you talking about.)

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  3. #53
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    That's not to say, an Author should REALLY prepare. Personally, I'm overprepared with 500+ Fakemon. I need help... I'm running out of ideas!
    ...mate, I WANT to run out of ideas! I'm actually still retconning and coming up with ideas and I'm not too happy with the concept...

    I'm wondering if there are things that can be done to increase Fakemon appeal. I've got pointers, idea, clever ways to MAKE them, and if anyone wants to know, I could divulge the secrets to making 500+ of them.

    Or does anyone's interest even piqued?
    Consider me piqued. I need to make about three more and them I'm hanging up my pencils. My fic speed is suffering because of it...

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post
    I mean, I'd imagine someone who thinks "what harm can Buneary do in this Pokémonified Australia" would do it, but probably not someone who understands what an invasive species is.
    Kill all the buneary.

    But no, seriously, this is a great point. I think I alluded to something similar in an earlier fic--about cross-regional pokemon populations and invasiveness--but then I never went into detail regarding it, because the fic was actually about something else.

    But using this particular example as ... another example, once you have invasive animal introductions like that you're also going to have responses from the native wildlife and the human population. When I was a kid my cousin would take me out spotlighting on his farm, which basically meant going out on a truck with a big effing torch and a couple of rifles, and shooting all the bloody rabbits, foxes and kangaroos we saw. And this is a standard thing, because rabbits are considered such a pest that no one gives a toss if Thumper gets it.

    Translating this in pokemon terms and suddenly you have a potential ethical war, depending on your handling of pokemon intelligence in general. Are pokemon sentient enough that they should be protected, no matter how much they breed and how much damage they do to farmers' crops? Would it be legal to hunt and eat pest-pokemon, in this case (which some farmers do irl, if the kangaroo/rabbits are in good enough health; we sometimes took a couple of rabbits home with us to put in curries)? What about introducing disease to cut down the population? How should this be handled, if pokemon are semi-sentient, and yet threatening the local and more endangered pokemon species? How far should the human population be interfering in their habitats and lifestyles?

    ... Okay, and now I'm getting plotbunnies of a local farmer dealing with an infestation of buneary, and how he handles it legally/ethically/personally.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JX Valentine View Post

    Or, hey, maybe coconuts do migrate by themselves.
    I can't help myself, but I can't let this go without making an Exeggutor joke here of some kind. If i were non my computermand not thisninferior hal-eaten fruit, there'd be a picture here of a smiling coconut tree...

    , of course, that it's not a researcher who causes the invasion to happen anyway]
    Funny you wrote what you did, i'm guilty of half your post there. I made a comment here in the early part of my fic about Maractus being seen near Phenac, and that Jovi had been raising one. Condidering I've bumped the timeline a few years and that Jovi was a part of the lab team, its all to funny you had that thought.

    Oart of the problem i see with the argument about new regions and new pokes, is that cananonically We have two egions that are new and different to the others with entirely old species. On the cartoon, the Orange Islands share the Kanto species 100%. Its possible to say that the Orange Islands are still a territry of Kanto, and quite possibly they were conected a century or thirty ago, but then the species did evolve color differences. We see a purple and orange Vileplume once that's not Dshiny, just orange.

    On the other, we have the Ore region, which also doesn't have a natural native species. Now, part of that is that the game was created to help jumper RSE and FRLG, but we see Skarmory carrying off a Trapinch n the opening crdits, one Poke who's from Johto, and one from a totally isolated island region, co-living in a region based on Arizona. (And look at that, we're back in the Workd Building thread... Oops.)

    Personally, i'm a fan of Sinnoh Pokemon in Unova because most mapmakers (Get out of the world building thread, Glover) tend to connect Sinnoh to Orre via Almia, and then Orre to Unova being that they're both US based regions. and I am introducing Cacturne (back?) to the Orre region, although i did make it a point that a character says (the sooner we can get some Grass types in here, the sooner we can get a handle on this sand drivenmess."

    Getting back on this topic, i suppose i could've made something up and went on, but I've set too much of a precedent for myslef now, and I can't draw stick figures with a strait edge and a chalk line, let alone Sugimori style hummingbirds with three beaks.

    I wishbi could claim the invasive species, but that came more fro Sidewinder's "Requiem" than me. I totally can't wait to see it with the Jax touch, but from a strictly smei-canonical approach (IE less realistic) i'm not sure what an invasive species would be in Pokemon. We see Pidgeot and Swellow battle as tainer pokemon all the time; would a Pidgeot respond to a wild Swellow muscling in on territory any differently? Would there be a functional difference between a Wurmple and a Weedle? One might thnk, given that these are elemental beings that control the world, that they'd roll over and let their food be taken as easily as a real world. Maybe notnthough. And considering PKMN like Grotle, Sceptile, and Tropius, would there even be a food shortage like we have problems with in RL that really characterizes an invasive species? Perhaps more unique thematics, Kanto doesn't have a truly rabbit like pokemon unless Wigglytuff counts, But I'm not actually sure that a frisky Shroomish would do anything more to a region than make more Shroomish. They aren't reLly that different from Paras, i'm not sure a Pidgeoto cold tell a differnece.

    OKay, you got me, now I want to do amBuneary plaguein Orre...

    Anyway, i think i'm babbling now, but maybe someone can pull something coherent out of that...
        Spoiler:- Breeding stuff:

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    One idea I've toiled with is the idea of variant creatures.

    An example is a foreign breed of Ekans to be adapted to colder weather... and it had a fuzzy coat from its yellow neck strip down.


    As for making Fakemon...

    To make good fakemon, one doesn't need any artistic talent. By all means, if you are/can find an artist, then more luck/power to you. Remember, we're writers, we make art in the imagination. As someone who's never had any artistic skills, I can safely say I could probably give you a good idea how they'd look by description alone.

    You should also stat them. Give them abilities, even Hidden Dreamworld abilities! This will help you keep the pokemon's capabilities more consistent.


    Just remember, a region should be rather full, probably with no less than 80 new creatures. Think though: would this creature have any gameplay value.


    A logical standpoint brings up whether this creature would be fun, balanced and enjoyable. You may think because you're just writing a story, it doesn't matter, but someone will care. If YOU the author don't care, then why would I, the reader give a darn?

    Let's say you want to Evolve... Tauros. Sounds great, right? Well, not entirely! Tauros has the stats of a fully evolved beast, but he's now Viable for Little Cup because he can evolve. Much like Scyther though, common battle consensus will ban it from Little Cup... and then what? Tauros evo will probably outshine its former form unless Eviolite really gives the bull some oomph.


    So instead, maybe give it a baby form. A baby cow... one that can evolve into Miltank as well. You've created new possibilities more interesting than the former idea, as you can raise a baby cow into one or the other. A battler will see ample breeding opportunity as the male only Tauros has no egg moves otherwise. Now you can pass Milk Drink onto your baby cows, and raise a million new questions.

    I have plenty of other tips as well. I'm just trying to get this thread some life. Though I may just open a thread specific to Fakemon.

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    While the idea of a Tauros/Miltank (pre-)evo is appealing, I try to shy away from them as much as possible. Not that I haven't made a few I'm surprisingly happy with. It just shows a lack of creativity to me... one reason I hated Gen IV's lineup. Lickilicky... >.<

    It's hard to come up with ideas for new Pokemon, but it isn't impossible. Maybe you SHOULD open a Fakemon creating thread. :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc View Post
    Let's say you want to Evolve... Tauros. Sounds great, right? Well, not entirely! Tauros has the stats of a fully evolved beast, but he's now Viable for Little Cup because he can evolve. Much like Scyther though, common battle consensus will ban it from Little Cup... and then what? Tauros evo will probably outshine its former form unless Eviolite really gives the bull some oomph.
    Personal Opinion: I'd shy away from Competetive stats and classing as a basis for creation. Keeping in mind the purpose of your creation is not a bad idea, and there's certainly room to justifiy "Little Cup" as a set of rules for a competition, but we're writing fiction, not the video games. Battle Mechanics, typing, everything changes from one to the other. (Or should). If you want to design a Pokemon based on evolutions, I think the better way to go is to ask "What envirnment would create such an evolution?"

    For example: Onix first evolved into Steelix to deal with lower depths into the Earth's Core. Rhyperior, Magmortar are adaptations to more brutal climates. Glaceon is an Eevee adaptation for hunting in the arctic. Lickiliy... well... okay, the logic's not perfect, but.

    So why would a Tauros evolve? Perhaps its a kind of Yak adaption for high mountains? Boufallant

    I do like the idea of a Tauros-Miltank crossbreed though, and I have toyed with minor climate adaptions withing a species, but like the Pudgey Pidgey in the Orange arc (and the colroation changes in same said seasons) is that an actual new species or not?
    Last edited by Glover; 24th October 2012 at 6:38 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glover View Post
    Personal Opinion: I'd shy away from Competetive stats and classing as a basis for creation. Keeping in mind the purpose of your creation is not a bad idea, and there's certainly room to justifiy "Little Cup" as a set of rules for a competition, but we're writing fiction, not the video games. Battle Mechanics, typing, everything changes from one to the other. (Or should). If you want to design a Pokemon based on evolutions, I think the better way to go is to ask "What envirnment would create such an evolution?"
    hate to disagree with you but... If the fakemon you create is much too overpowered for game purposes, do you think anyone will take them seriously? I think not.


    Anyway, I like fanmade regions, as you can toy around with them. But, you do need to set a few rules for yourself while creating it. What climate would it be? What would it be based on? I'm saying this to avoid having a tropical rainforest in a region where it snows a lot.

    As for fakemon, you need to make sure you base them on animals or items found in the climate the region us set on, as it wouldn't make sense to have something like a polar bear in a region near the equator would it?

    These are a few things we all need to ask ourselves while writing fics.

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirkac View Post
    hate to disagree with you but... If the fakemon you create is much too overpowered for game purposes, do you think anyone will take them seriously? I think not.
    It's not about the games though. I could really care less about the Fakemon in a game, I'm here to read a story. (Which might also be related to why I'm a member of the non-competetive trainers hangout. I also don't give a Ratatta's caboose about Sp.Atk or the tiers for the real ones)If you can write a believeable Pokemon, then it can be put into the games.

    Look at the Anime battles, where attacks are not just called and recieved, but used as actual blocks. Quick Attack as an escape. Any Pokemon more than twice its opponents size can "Body-Slam". (The Joltic/Beartic battle from this gen). A good rubrik for writing the character is a good thing, and yes, the workld is full of overpowered Fakemon, but as soon as you put numbers to a fic, you start walking a dangerous line.

    Which is where we start into the Levels vs. Age of the Pokemon and clocking Hitpoints arguments. Oh, and the ever-popular "How many moves can a Pokemon really learn? Is four an actual cap, or is it just a mechanical of the game? How does a Pikachu really forget how to Tackle something because you taught it Thunderbolt?"
    Last edited by Glover; 25th October 2012 at 4:23 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glover View Post
    It's not about the games though. I could really care less about the Fakemon in a game, I'm here to read a story. (Which might also be related to why I'm a member of the non-competetive trainers hangout. I also don't give a Ratatta's caboose about Sp.Atk or the tiers for the real ones)If you can write a believeable Pokemon, then it can be put into the games.
    Well, it would be boring to read a fic where there's a fakemon that's so powerful it beats everything or somethng so weak it can't stand up to Magikarp now would it? That's what I was trying to say, games have absolutely nothing to do with it (I need to word better).
    And, the fact that you're noncompetetive has absolutely nothing to do with it, as Iwasn't even talking about that.

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    Stats are more for supplimentary references. They are not for you the writer, so much as they are a nice little extra for the reader. They are used to say you very much ARE invested in the fauna you have godded into existence.

    It's to say "I care THAT MUCH MORE than you think!"

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    Quote Originally Posted by dirkac View Post
    Well, it would be boring to read a fic where there's a fakemon that's so powerful it beats everything or somethng so weak it can't stand up to Magikarp now would it? That's what I was trying to say, games have absolutely nothing to do with it (I need to word better).
    And, the fact that you're noncompetetive has absolutely nothing to do with it, as Iwasn't even talking about that.
    Quote Originally Posted by Dilasc View Post
    Stats are more for supplimentary references. They are not for you the writer, so much as they are a nice little extra for the reader. They are used to say you very much ARE invested in the fauna you have godded into existence.

    It's to say "I care THAT MUCH MORE than you think!"
    A concession then, how do you use them as such, without disrupting the flow of the story by throwing numbers into "Are you okay to keep going?" An example might be easier to explain and fro em to see.
        Spoiler:- Breeding stuff:

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    I don't think anyone is suggesting creating fakemon that are overpowered or underpowered is a good idea, whether they have "stats" like the game or not. They're just saying creating game-like stats is one method of keeping their portrayal of the creature consistent. Others might write it as just a creature without "stats" but are still able to make sure it has its own unique strong and weak points. There's nothing "dangerous" about giving a fakemon game-like stats as far as I can tell, but it's not necessary to do so.

    As for "throwing numbers into the story" I doubt that's what most people mean. They're there as a reference (the same way a writer with an existing 'mon might look up a Haunter's stats to figure out it might be a good idea to portray it as more vulnerable to being severely damaged by an attack in a story because of its lower defenses in the games). The story itself would not say "Haunter's defense stat was X so it took Y damage" - it would say "Haunter were not known for being very sturdy, so it was no surprise when the attack left the ghost pokemon struggling to regain its momentum" (or something better than the example I just threw together).

    In most cases though (from how I interpreted the above statements) it would just be written like a normal battle scene. "Fakemon A hopped across the field because its wings were too small to fly properly. It's opponent was unconcerned with how close it was getting, but was suddenly surprised by the Powder Snow unleashed from its beak." No "numbers" to speak of. But maybe in an author's note or extra, the author might leave a supplementary "hey, if anyone's curious, Fakemon A would have these stats if it was in the games."

    That's how I interpreted the discussion, anyway. Short: if you want to make stats to be thorough or because it helps you keep your creature consistent, go for it. If you find it's easier to write without set numbers in mind, write without them but keep the basic strengths and weaknesses consistent. Not giving stats by itself isn't going to instantly overpower a creature; it just means the author doesn't think in numbers and game terms in a fic-verse.

    EDIT: As for the Tauros evo "make sure it has gameplay value" tip that started this particular sub-discussion, I think the point of that was that you should make each fakemon unique when compared to what exists. Meaning "Don't just make a Tauros, but bigger" but have some reason why it would be that way without making the Tauros step pointless in the process. What makes it different from the existing 'mon(s)?

    Also, the idea is to not evolve things that are already strong enough because they run the risk of being seen as overly powerful. If a Tauros is at the apex of its abilities and the best thing in its niche, why would it need to evolve further? How could EvolvedTauros be even tougher than the exiting pre-evolution without reaching ridiculous power levels? Looking at "stats" is one possible method of determining whether a pokemon has room for improvement or if it's OK as it is. If it's already very strong, then a stronger version of it might not make sense to make.

    I think those were the points the Tauros evolution example was going for, anyway. Aside from Eeveelutions, I usually don't add to existing lines anymore. I had a bunch as a kid, but most of them ended up scrapped. Ergo, I may not be the best person to ask about adding evolutions to existing pokemon lines.
    Last edited by Ememew; 29th October 2012 at 8:02 AM.
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    Hmm... I dunno... I thought the question was on Original regions, not Fakemon per se. True, every region has its distinctive (flora and) fauna and while it does play a critical part of the region's culture, I'm not sure it's ENTIRELY on-topic.

    Quote Originally Posted by DeadlyBraviary
    Currently, I suspect the problem is with description, and that's one of my weak points.
    (Sorry, couldn't find the infinity sign) You pretty much nailed it, mate. With creating the region, you have to show the reader everything happening around the cast. Show, and NOT tell. It can be a problem for an original region fic writer to assume the reader will cotton on, but with this "genre", yeah... description is key.

    Any Fakemon you bring in also must be able to live in the habitat they're local to easily enough. And sufficient description (wow, that word's popular here) can also help determine how well said fakemon can hold up in battle. I won't say more here, although I will say Ememew nailed it, but I think a new thread is in question where this can be tackled in full. Fair enough, people?

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    Getting back to "regions" themselves, one thing I recommend is making a map of the area you can use as a reference. Like images of other original concepts (be they 'mons or human characters), this is mainly for your use as a writer rather than something you need to make available to readers (unless you want to, of course). I find working with a map really helps me figure out what step I'm going to do next. A story I'm writing that isn't going very far at the moment (not post-worthy yet) lacks a map, and right not I'm wondering if the absence of a map might be part of what's holding up my creative juices.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ememew View Post
    Getting back to "regions" themselves, one thing I recommend is making a map of the area you can use as a reference. Like images of other original concepts (be they 'mons or human characters), this is mainly for your use as a writer rather than something you need to make available to readers (unless you want to, of course). I find working with a map really helps me figure out what step I'm going to do next. A story I'm writing that isn't going very far at the moment (not post-worthy yet) lacks a map, and right not I'm wondering if the absence of a map might be part of what's holding up my creative juices.
    This, 100%. And really, I think its good for all writings. Smaller settings can getr away with less, but especially if you feel like you want to use multiple regions, knowing how to space out everything is a wonderful thing. Moving from Kanto to johto would be different than Kanto to Hoenn, or Sinnoh to Oblivia.
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