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Thread: Ok, cartoon network is taking a turn for the worse.

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden_Latias View Post
    I used to believe in the ultra conservative soccer mom theory myself, but I really don't anymore. Soccer moms did exist back in the "good 'ol days," too. Why would companies be listening to them now when they clearly weren't in the past?
    I don't think soccer moms were ever in control to begin with, it was always the media dogs, the networking has changed this past decade. I just want to know who are the morons who decided to greenlight various shows when clearly the premise was never that great to begin with. This goes for any show, not just cartoons in general.

    I do, however, admit that CN was horrible in 2007-2009. They're a heck of a lot better now than they were then. I don't agree with everything they do (I do think they should get rid of all the live action shows), but CN isn't as awful as it's made out to be.
    Eh... I'll have to give them that. I think they were trying something new back then, and it failed tremendously. They're getting a little better at what they're doing, but it's still not that great. It'd be a huge improvement if they would just take away the live-action shows (or heck, make a separate channel branch for these shows or just give them to Nickelodeon), and then perhaps have a better direction for the current narrator. That guy's freakin' annoying (what, is this his first time doing voice-over narration or something?), and they keep giving away plot (twists) for new episodes a week before they air. They need to stop treating kids like morons, and this goes for all networks who do this crap.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden_Latias View Post
    Your parents =/= everyone's parents. For example, my parents thought the 90s cartoons were stupid and the stuff they grew up with (old Mickey Mouse cartoons, Looney Tunes, Hannah Barbera stuff from the 50s and 60s, etc.) were far superior to anything on the cartoon channels in the 90s. Praising the generation you grew up with is not a new phenomenon. About 10 years from now, people will be talking about how the cartoons then are crap, and how stuff like Adventure Time and The Regular Show were classics.

    I used to believe in the ultra conservative soccer mom theory myself, but I really don't anymore. Soccer moms did exist back in the "good 'ol days," too. Why would companies be listening to them now when they clearly weren't in the past?

    I don't agree with everything CN does, but I don't think it's as awful as people make it out to be. I also think a lot of 90s cartoons are overrated. Sure, I'll give you stuff like Dexter's Laboratory, The Powerpuff Girls, Ed, Edd, n' Eddy, Courage the Cowardly Dog, etc. But Cow and Chicken? Mike, Lu, and Ogg? I Am Weasel? Captain Planet? I don't think so.
    I do, however, admit that CN was horrible in 2007-2009. They're a heck of a lot better now than they were then. I don't agree with everything they do (I do think they should get rid of all the live action shows), but CN isn't as awful as it's made out to be.
    I mean, yeah I know my parents aren't everyones parents, but when people are touting the "You're all just nostalgaic" card, it only takes one counter example. Even people outside of the "target demographic" are still able to recognize decent cartoons when they see one. Adventure time is widely popular for example, among children and adults alike and is widely praised among critics. It has an actual plot, unique and developed characters, etc.

    Children are children, don't get me wrong, but even kids can tell when something is just pretty much stupid. I have three sisters below the age of 10 and every single one of them begs me to change the channel when "Annoying orange" comes on. Give kids a bit more credit, haha. It isn't that hard to recognize the makings of decent cartoon.

    Either way, I don't suppose there's a real definitive way to "win" this argument unless someone is actually bold enough to do a fucking side by side comparison of all the cartoons that aired in the 90's and the ones from early 2000 and onward, which I think we're all probably a little bit too lazy to do. Personally, I just think it's sort of obvious. It's eerily similar to the people that say "Oh, well music today isn't any better or worse than music 50 years ago" My ass it isn't. Sure you can find really decent underground music if you look hard enough, but fat chance you'll find something other than the most atrocious pop on the radio and on the top 40. That's a completely unrelated tangent and rant for a different day I guess.

    In the end, I suppose sure, some people could be just nostalgaic, but to throw that out as a blanket statement and assume there's no rational basis at all for someone thinking that 90's cartoons are genuinely better quality than more recent productions is nonsense.
    Last edited by Wahara; 22nd November 2012 at 5:42 PM.

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    ]I never suggested you're nostalgic. It's just, for the most part, nobody ever gives a reason why they prefer the '90s cartoons over the modern ones, and 99% of the people complaining always have the whole "the past was wonderful, and the present sucks" type of mentality. And frankly, I think that mentality is bullshit.

    Plus, people always cherry pick and compare the good 90s cartoons to the crappy modern ones, while completely ignoring the crappy '90s cartoons and good modern cartoons. They pretend ALL of the '90s cartoons were great masterpieces (including stuff that really was garbage, like Captain Planet or Mike, Lu, and Ogg), and ALL of the modern cartoons are bottom of the barrel garbage (including cartoons that actually are considered good both by people watching and critics, like Adventure Time and The Regular Show).

    I just don't understand what has changed between the 90s and now. Soccer moms existed in the '90s, and CN's #1 priority is, was, and always will be to make a profit. Is there really any reason for CN to be "greedier" today or for there to be less talent or creativity in the writing staff or whatever.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Golden_Latias View Post
    I just don't understand what has changed between the 90s and now. Soccer moms existed in the '90s, and CN's #1 priority is, was, and always will be to make a profit. Is there really any reason for CN to be "greedier" today or for there to be less talent or creativity in the writing staff or whatever.
    I think that it's more of the fact that our tastes have changed, some of our favourite modern cartoons have ended, and other popular modern cartoons having fan-bases with massive egos.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    I think that it's more of the fact that our tastes have changed, some of our favourite modern cartoons have ended, and other popular modern cartoons having fan-bases with massive egos.
    That sounds about right. There are some shows/fandoms people refuse to get into because of the fans. Invader Zim is possibly one of the best (albeit infamous) examples when it comes to modern-day Western cartoons. The fandom is insane, especially when it comes to the shippers. I like Invader Zim, but I was quick enough to remove myself from the fanbase when I saw just how rabid they could get. And I've known a good few people who left the fandom because of the same reason. They still like the show, but they don't associate themselves with it.

    Yeah, you can argue that every single fandom out there has its own issues, but there are always going to be those fandoms that are marked negatively because of the rather vocal, insane minority. This is why we can't have nice things. If the vocal minority didn't have access to conventions or the Internet, it'd be a quieter place.
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    You look at all 3 networks we watched as kids during the 90s (Cartoon Network, Disney Channel and Nickelodeon). Nick has always been the channel that has the live action shows with actors, but now that is the norm for all 3 channels. Disney being the cartoon haven it once was, all of its stars are a part of the live action shows. It seems their Disney XD channel is the place for the new animated features. Cartoon Network has caught on too late it seems and sort of missed the boat in that regard. So the focus has been less on animation and more on the live action shows. I'm not going to say that cartoons were better during the 90s because I know there are cartoons out there that I dreamed of having as a kid (Avengers, a wealth of DC animated movies), but I do believe they had more staying power than the cartoons do nowadays.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    That sounds about right. There are some shows/fandoms people refuse to get into because of the fans. Invader Zim is possibly one of the best (albeit infamous) examples when it comes to modern-day Western cartoons. The fandom is insane, especially when it comes to the shippers. I like Invader Zim, but I was quick enough to remove myself from the fanbase when I saw just how rabid they could get. And I've known a good few people who left the fandom because of the same reason. They still like the show, but they don't associate themselves with it.
    I love Zim and it's one of my favourite cartoons ever but I have yet to notice that its fan-base is still lingering and at full force like you said and am glad I haven't.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    Yeah, you can argue that every single fandom out there has its own issues, but there are always going to be those fandoms that are marked negatively because of the rather vocal, insane minority. This is why we can't have nice things. If the vocal minority didn't have access to conventions or the Internet, it'd be a quieter place.
    Bronies...it feels more like a majority with them but you're probably right. This still isn't going to change my negative view of them. However, other shows like Adventure Time and Regular Show (two shows on Cartoon Network mind you), haven't been too much of an issue with me either and I have yet to encounter the rabid fans (which I'm also glad of).
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    Cartoon Network no longer cares about entertainment, just money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by LordLucario21 View Post
    I was bored one day, so I decided to watch 2 episodes of Regular Show. It was incredibly stupid. When it wasn't being predictable, it was being gross for no reason other than for shock value. At least a show like Invader Zim or Grim Sdventures of Billy and Mandy used messed up imagery to tell the story better or make it interesting.
    I actually love Regular Show... It's like probably my favorite cartoon that's still running..

    Adventure Time is my second favorite. Those are the only one's that I watch.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Street Comedy View Post
    Cartoon Network no longer cares about entertainment, just money.
    That's what every company only cares about, people!

    Okay, I'm going to go flat out and give my honest opinion, out of the four cartoon main cartoon broadcasting stations (Cartoon Network, Disney, the Hub, and Nickelodeon), Cartoon Network is doing the second best.

    Nickelodeon is relying on simplistic half-baked writing with their shows and their only saving grace that isn't the dimwitness of kids is the Legend of Korra and the new Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles series.

    Disney doesn't really have to worry too much as they're still an immensely powerful movie company. As far as television series go, their sitcoms are horrid and are doing a poor job at adapting Marvel's comics. Luckily for them, Phineas and Ferb, Kick Buttowski: Suburban Daredevil, and Gravity Falls are all great shows that hold up very well.

    Cartoon Network is actually doing quite good. Sure, the material of their more recent shows is hit and miss but last time I checked, despite both having very unique humour, Adventure Time and Regular Show have exploded in popularity. Like DC Comics, Cartoon Network is owned by Warner Brothers which means all adaptations of the comic branch's series will wind up on the station. To boot, they've been pumping out some great material with the DC Nation shorts along with Green Lantern: the animated series and Young Justice. There's also Adult Swim to take into consideration. Though it has shows with much raunchier material that takes some time to get a taste for, the shows there appeal to the older crowd dragging in even more viewers. Then there's the fact that Cartoon Network gets a good chunk of Japanese cartoons, increasing the amount of viewers. To boot, there are even repeats of their older shows playing plus they're now available in Canada (though my family's cable subscription doesn't include them).

    Taking the gold is the Hub due to their smart and well played cancellations and the fact that ponies are f***ing awesome. If such weren't the case (which I wish it were), good old Cartoon Network would have the gold.

    Long story short, stop whining, they're doing great and at least they're showing repeats of your old favourites.
    Last edited by ParaChomp; 28th November 2012 at 9:05 PM. Reason: Turtle Power
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    Cartoon Network is not going downhill. I mean, yeah, its had a couple stumbles. They tried to hop on the Nick bandwagon and try out live action shows (after such Nick hits like Drake & Josh, and...well, that's all I can think of. Say what you want about D&J, that show was freakin' awesome), and doing so was a MASSIVE fumble. Destroy Build Destroy got boring after ten minutes. Ooh, you blew up a car. Wow. If I wanted to see that, I'd watch Mythbusters. At least I'd freakin' learn something!

    Then there was hole in the wall, which...wasn't too bad. Pretty sure they jacked that from Ellen Degenerous though...

    Now there's level up, which is...ecchhh...

    But look, compared to other networks, CN is not doing that bad. Compare it to Nick. New Spongebob is atrocious, Fan boy & Chum chum is one of the most vile and despicable shows to ever gouge into my eyeballs, Tuff Puppy has 0 humor in it whatsoever, and tries to recapture the once glowing, now desolate humor of Fairly Oddparents (makes sense, they're both by Fredator), and iCarly...just...just no. Overall, compared to its sister network, CN is looking pretty d*mn good. Adventure Time isn't just about silly puns and slapstick, it has an ACTUAL FREAKIN' STORYLINE, which is absent in cartoons nowadays. Regular Show has its moments of genuine humor (much of it adult, may I add. Not all of it, but its...its in there). Those two are the modern day Spongebob and Fairly Oddparents for CN, in my opinion, anyway.

    Overall, if any network is going downhill, its definitely Nickelodeon. You can't pull on Spingebob's holes forever. He'll rip eventually. He already did actually. IN 2005! JUST END IT ALREADY!

    Whew, anyway, that's my rant. Either tear it apart or ignore it, doesn't make much of a difference to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Nickelodeon is relying on simplistic half-baked writing with their shows and their only saving grace that isn't the dimwitness of kids is the Legend of Korra.
    Even though I know reception about the show is still a bit mixed, I'm gonna add Ninja Turtles to the list since I feel it's not speaking down to the kids as of this writing. Still, if Nick doesn't get its head out of its ass soon (or better yet, the parents get some common sense and change the channel)...

    I'm starting to making connections with 4KIDS here, though I don't know which company is/was worse...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairGamer9215 View Post
    Then there was hole in the wall, which...wasn't too bad. Pretty sure they jacked that from Ellen Degenerous though...
    Correction, the Japanese. Also, last time I recall, when it was first brought over, it was a game show aimed towards a broad audience (if the female helpers in bikinis and adults competing weren't enough proof).

    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    Even though I know reception about the show is still a bit mixed, I'm gonna add Ninja Turtles to the list since I feel it's not speaking down to the kids as of this writing. Still, if Nick doesn't get its head out of its ass soon (or better yet, the parents get some common sense and change the channel)...
    Forgot abot the Heroes in a Half-Shell!

    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    I'm starting to making connections with 4KIDS here, though I don't know which company is/was worse...
    Start a thread abot Nick? Also, how would you compare them to 4kids? Anyways, as far as kids shows go, all the channels are doing fine. Half-baked writing or not, the kids will eat the goofiness up and a profit will be made.
    Last edited by ParaChomp; 28th November 2012 at 9:10 PM. Reason: more quotes
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    Quote Originally Posted by ParaChomp View Post
    Correction, the Japanese.
    My mistake. Should've done research, but, well...I was tired. But I think my point still stands nonetheless. Glad to have clarification of origin though.
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    It really does amaze me how little people know about television programming and how opinionated they are about it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    It really does amaze me how little people know about television programming and how opinionated they are about it.
    Well people typically don't watch things they don't like and don't like things they don't watch. So disliking things and knowing little about them often go hand and hand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by deathseer View Post
    It really does amaze me how little people know about television programming and how opinionated they are about it.
    What I'm saying isn't just opinionated jargon, its actually true.

    Quote Originally Posted by LA Times
    Nickelodeon's audience levels have fallen nearly 30% this season, prompting much speculation about the reasons behind the troubling drop. The issue is far from child's play. Nickelodeon is one of the most valuable channels in television as well as within the Viacom universe.
    Quote Originally Posted by LA Times
    Earlier this week, Time Warner Inc. Chief Executive Jeffrey Bewkes added his support to that theory, noting that his company's Cartoon Network, which competes with Nickelodeon, doesn't have that issue. In fact, Cartoon Network's ratings were up 14%.
    Source

    Now, there may be some varying factors, such as people watching the internet more than TV, using on demand or Netflix more nowadays, kids being more active, etc., but I think the main reason is quality. Is there any way to prove that? Well, the numbers don't lie.
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    I think the major reason Nick is failing in ratings is that they relay on shows that are so old no cares for them anymore. Fairlyodd parents jumped the shark long ago, and Spongebob well that show is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy past it's experation date.

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    Quote Originally Posted by WildHennaCharizard View Post
    I think the major reason Nick is failing in ratings is that they relay on shows that are so old no cares for them anymore. Fairlyodd parents jumped the shark long ago, and Spongebob well that show is waaaaaaaaayyyyyyyyyy past it's experation date.
    I agree. TMNT is the best show I have seen on that Network in a long time. It's not as good as 2003 yet but I feel that while the 2003 one was dark and 1987 was kid friendly, this one feels like it is right in the middle which is great. It is also dominating in the ratings for Nick every Saturday which its lowest ratings so far being 2.8 million viewers. I hear Korra is great as well even though I am not caught up with it. It is definitely on my to watch list though because it is so rare that we get shows that have a female lead so that's always awesome. But I have to say, one of the worst parts about watching TMNT is the commercials because during the commercials, I discovered a show known as Marvin Marvin. Now I am not opposed to Nick Sitcoms because I loved shows like Amanda Show, Drake and Josh, All That, etc. growing up but this Marvin Marvin show looks absolutely horrible.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    But I have to say, one of the worst parts about watching TMNT is the commercials because during the commercials, I discovered a show known as Marvin Marvin. Now I am not opposed to Nick Sitcoms because I loved shows like Amanda Show, Drake and Josh, All That, etc. growing up but this Marvin Marvin show looks absolutely horrible.
    I saw that trailer too. It stars that overrated talentless hack FRED. Why anyone would give that annoying little idgit a show is beyond me...
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    Quote Originally Posted by FairGamer9215 View Post
    I saw that trailer too. It stars that overrated talentless hack FRED. Why anyone would give that annoying little idgit a show is beyond me...
    Because Fred is popular for reasons I will never understand. Honestly, I get that networks want to make money but there also used to be days where in addition to wanting money, they cared about quality. Quality is so hard to find these days unfortunately.

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    I'm just going to say what other people are saying. Nickelodeon is the one going downhill.

    I rarely watch Nick, and that's to watch the OLD Spongebob and Fairly odd parents. I used to like Fanboy and Chum Chum (or should i say F**k Boy and *** ***), but only before realizing how horrible and unoriginal it was. OK. 2 best friends who have a favorite food and get bullied by some tough guy and go on wacky adventures. How original. Cartoon Network is in the top market with The Hub and Disney.

    The Hub has Pound Puppies(Which I LOVE!), MLP FIM which is decent for little kids, and they had Dan VS. That was my favorite show. It was original, and it really loved pushing the limits to see how far it can go, like almost impaling a woman with multiple candy cane knives, or putting Chris in a speedo and make him do a supermodel pose, which Dan says makes him look "more delicious" because he wanted to attract predators to kill them and make food. I'd love to see that show again.

    Disney is really in the top. They have great shows like Dog with a Blog and Phineas and Ferb, Gravity Falls, and Kick Buttowski. Not much to say about this one.

    And finally, cartoon network. Oh boy. Cartoon Network, I love you so. You have amazing shows like Adventure Time and Regular show, The amazing world of Gumball, The looney tunes show, Pokemon (Of course), and others. Sure, you got rid of the best shows like Courage the cowardly Dog, the Powerpuff Girls, and Teen Titans, but you're still amzing and - Oh! Don't forget Total Drama Island!

    Overall, we should really be talking about nick. That's the one with problems.




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    Quote Originally Posted by FairGamer9215 View Post
    I saw that trailer too. It stars that overrated talentless hack FRED. Why anyone would give that annoying little idgit a show is beyond me...
    Quote Originally Posted by Pokemaniac24 View Post
    Because Fred is popular for reasons I will never understand. Honestly, I get that networks want to make money but there also used to be days where in addition to wanting money, they cared about quality. Quality is so hard to find these days unfortunately.
    It's the same with Cartoon Network having a show about the Annoying Orange. They're fine as short little YouTube videos, but there's a limit to how much annoyance you can watch. I can't watch the Annoying Orange show on Cartoon Network, though I don't mind the YouTube videos. I never watched Fred on YouTube, I just know he was pretty popular until he got his own show and I think three movies now. It's terrible. That's like giving Rebecca Black her own show because she's one of the most popular disliked videos on YouTube.

    Anything to make the producers/companies more money, I suppose...
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    i started dislikeing CN after they discontinued code leoko, but when they pick it back up i might start watching CN again.
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