In no way im I supporting them, im just not gonna call them a terrorist organization for the actions of 1 member.
In any case bel9 has already explained that these so called "connections" to the brotherhood are supported by a less than reliable source.
I think it's just politician's trying to turn us against each other.
I am a Christian and proud of it!†
Sorry for getting side-tracked, but I need to nip this bigot in the bud.
"I don't see any Christians speak out against the KKK and the WBC. I guess all Christians supports these hate driven organizations."
Did it ever cross your mind that perhaps girls in the Middle East reached puberty earlier than they do in America because of the climate and the food that they eat? Do you think Muhammad just got tired of waiting for three whole years, and just decided then to have sex with her? No. He waited for her to reach puberty. Girls having sex right after puberty was very common in that era. Look up what cultural relativism means.
Last edited by Sadib; 30th July 2012 at 8:08 AM.
I don't hear many slurs against Germans anymore. I'm pretty sure it was supposed to mean 'just like the vast majority of Germans supported their respective hateful groups in Nazi Germany' rather than speaking of today's Germans, even though it didn't specify a past tense. However there's a deeper problem there - just because Nazis represented Germany during WWII, doesn't mean Germany unanimously went along with him. History represents the people with the most memorable actions and loudest statements. A people's history of Germany in World War II would probably show an impoverished public (just like marioguy said - poverty breeds trouble! - fed misinformation by one central madman and his support system, who exchanged promises for support. When World War II really took off, there was a massive backlash against the holocaust - some of it actually coming from the churches, who were less than pleased that some of the Jews/Handicapped/Homosexuals being rounded up were from their families, and they really started to realize what was happening. Talk is one thing, but it's incredibly unlikely that the public of an entire county, one with interconnected families and local roots where they didn't care much about the government or social policies as long as they made life less expensive - could unanimously be united in being bloodthirsty as the political schemers that governed them.
The same goes for the 'vast majority of Muslims'. I believe we can easily identify that innocent public that just wants to live in a stable, peaceful environment, and we do all the time. We just need to educate ourselves more on the exact trends that influence militant Islam - and avoid taking broad, sloppy steps that rapidly change these trends - like going to war, over, and over, and over...
The amount of radicals in America can be measured by the amount of women you see wearing full Islamic face veils (burqa/niqab). While it does say in the Qu'ran to dress modestly, it doesn't say to cover up like a Halloween ghost. The women, and the men that undoubtedly brainwash them into wearing this, are Islamic extremists. This can be said with certainty because in the very act of wearing a burqa/niqab you are practicing Sharia Law. Which means you support Sharia Law, and therefore the atrocious acts that fall within.
To address your second, very ignorant point; if you took the time to actually read my statement you would notice that I said "that is the root of my problem with religion as a whole". Since you seem to need clarification, I am saying that all monotheist religions have hateful, unjust morals within them, including Christianity. I myself am not a Christian, nor a Catholic, Jew, Buddhist, Muslim, etc. I don't agree with the underlying value of most religions (especially Abrahamic religions); that value being that all who do not share your views are beneath you. In Europe during the Dark Ages (or events like the notorious Spanish Inquisition) you would be murdered/tortured or tormented at the very best for sharing different religions beliefs than the ruling party, such as the Catholic Church. However if you were to go to predominantly Christian/Jewish/Catholic societies today you would not be burned at the stake for having different religious views. While today in Muslim majority countries you will be prosecuted/tortured or even killed like these unfortunate Christians in a Muslim majority country:
To tell me that there is no such thing as radical Muslims and that Christians are just as violent today as Muslims is to spit on the graves on the hundreds that have died this year alone at the hand of Islam. If Christians today are just as intolerant of non-believers as Muslims are today then tell me how according to America's very own National Counter-Terrorism Center 68% of terrorist attacks are committed in the name of Islam while only 2% are committed in the name of Christianity? And that is only terrorist attacks involving Americans! (See my earlier post to see the link).
I am disgusted when people like yourself act like there is no radical Islam problem. I'm not saying all Muslims are radical murderers, I never did. What I am saying is that a h*ll of a lot more of them are than any other religion today. To deny that is to ignore all those who died at the hands of Islam in only recent times, such as the victims of 9/11 or the London bus bombings, or these people:
or these girls
or the countless women and homosexuals abused on a daily basis because of something they were born with.
As BigLutz said, American Muslims are the most moderate. Spend a couple months in Iraq as a non-Muslim and tell me how peaceful and innocent of a religion Islam is.
Originally Posted by marioguyI'll have you know that both my parents are German. They spent their lives trying to shake the stereotype that painted them as Nazis. Again, you seem to have a habit of shutting out any part of my argument that disproves your point. Read on further and you would notice how I said that the silence and inaction of many Germans made them guilty as well. As is your pattern, I never said no Muslims were speaking out against Islam. In fact one of the finest educational films about radical Islam was made by a Muslim, that film being "The Third Jihad". My point being that you see many groups like the English Defence League and SION that stand against Islam and were founded by non-Muslims, but you don't see many groups founded by Muslims that are against radical Islam. I challenge you to find me a credible article about a Muslim movement against radical Islam. I'm sure many Muslims oppose radical Islam silently, but that is not what is going to make a difference here. I know that if I were a Muslim, I would be marching the streets against groups like the Taliban and Al Qaeda.Originally Posted by Iceberg
The reason you don't see many Christians speak out against the KKK/WBC is first of all because it is because the KKK is virtually non-existent. There might be a couple of red-necks in a trailer home that decide to organize a protest at the local Costco. There are not entire nations where everyone is subjugated to the hateful ideals of the KKK/WBC like there are entire nations under the hateful ideals of radical Islam. You're comparing apples to oranges.
You cannot seriously be justifying a 50+ year old man having sex with a 9 year old girl. Ridiculous as your statement was, it doesn't matter if she hit puberty, SHE IS STILL NINE!. This is outrageously offensive to victims to child molestation across the globe. How dare you defend someone, it doesn't matter who, that had sex with a 9-year old girl. Oh and y the way, if you actually read the Qu'ran (which I suggest you do, as it would enlighten you as to the true nature of Islam) than you would know that Mohammed did not refrain with sex from the girl out of courtesy, she fell ill and under the marvelous superstitions of the 7th century he opted to wait for her to get better.
The very fact that you use the term "bigot" to describe someone you barely know is a testament to your ignorance.
If you mean what I think you mean; in that the fact that I think that in many states gay marriage is illegal, and that suggests hatred between Judeo-Christianity in Gays (correct me if I am wrong) then that wasn't the point. Considering that I live in Canada (a country where gay marriage is legal and accepted by pretty much everyone, including myself) I never even considered that Gay marriage was illegal. It only further proves my point that all religions deprives certain groups of certain rights.Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem
You'll notice that I commented on the whole Muslim Brotherhood terror connection as well as the term "Islamophobia". Two topics that were outlined in the first post. While I agree that my post entered other areas regarding the problems with religion, claiming my post was irrelevant was uncalled for. You could very well have accepted the "relevant" poarts of my post and ran with that, or since those two topics have been rather beat to death, you could acknowledge that as in any good conversation, relevant material needs to be added, as it was.Originally Posted by Kazekage
Last edited by Iceberg; 30th July 2012 at 6:37 AM.
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I thought I share this. According to PEWforum.org, there was a 14-point increase between the 2008 and 2012 polls with Republicans from 16% to 30% believing that President Barack Obama is a Muslim.
number of Democrats believing that 9/11 was a inside job. You will always have the fringe believe conspiracy theories of people they hate.
We should really stop talking about this, because it has nothing to do with the baseless accusations by Bachmann.
video by TheYoungTurks. It's not only republicans.
Again, defending pedophiles on the basis that's "it's their culture" is inexcusable. Yeah, you're right, it was terrible that America (As well as many other countries, lest we forget) because they had slaves. However, American's (hopefully all) don't condone that kind of activity anymore. The problem with Islam is that they are worshiping a man that had sex with a 9-year old. In many Islamic countries forced marriage with little girls is okay all because Mohammed did it. They are still worshiping a pedophile when they should be shunning his actions.
Here are some verses from the Qu'ran and other Islamic literature that degrade women.
“Men are overseers over women, by reason of that wherewith Allah hath made one of them excel over another, and by reason of that which they expend of their substance. Wherefore righteous women are obedient, and are watchers in husbands absence by the aid and protection of Allah. And those wives whose refractoriness ye fear, exhort them, and avoid them in beds, and beat them; but if they obey you, seek not a way against them; verily Allah is ever Lofty, Grand.” 
Qur’an (4:11) - (Inheritance) “The male shall have the equal of the portion of two females” (see also verse 4:176).
Qur’an (2:223) - “Your wives are as a tilth unto you; so approach your tilth when or how ye will…”
Bukhari (6:301) - “[Muhammad] said, ‘Is not the evidence of two women equal to the witness of one man?’ They replied in the affirmative. He said, ‘This is the deficiency in her intelligence.’“
Bukhari (2:28) - Women comprise the majority of Hell’s occupants. This is important because the only women in heaven ever mentioned by Muhammad are the virgins who serve the sexual desires of men. (A weak Hadith, Kanz al-`ummal, 22:10, even suggests that 99% of women go to Hell).
Muslim (4:1039) - “A’isha said [to Muhammad]: ‘You have made us equal to the dogs and the asses’“ These are the words of Muhammad’s favorite wife, complaining of the role assigned to women under Islam.
The fourth Caliph, who was Muhammad’s son-in-law and cousin, said just a few years after the prophet’s death that “The entire woman is an evil. And what is worse is that it is a necessary evil.”
And here is a lengthy one regarding how non-Muslims should be treated
Quran (2:191-193) - "And slay them wherever ye find them, and drive them out of the places whence they drove you out, for persecution [of Muslims] is worse than slaughter [of non-believers]... but if they desist, then lo! Allah is forgiving and merciful. And fight them until persecution is no more, and religion is for Allah."
In total the Qu'ran contains 109 verses that call Muslims to war with non-Muslims.
Anyway, as you said this is getting off topic. On the whole topic of Bachmann, I don't think it is right to do a whole background check on a government official just because she is a Muslim. However, it would be reasonable to do a background check on someone who's family is member of a terrorist/radical religious organization. If you were to believe the former, that the Muslim Brotherhood is a terrorist organization but it is still unfair to investigate someone solely because their family is involved in this organization, I ask you this; If it were found out that one of the high ranking government officials family all had ties with the Nazi party of the KGB, would you want an investigation done on them? And if you were to believe the latter, that the Muslim Brotherhood is not a terrorist organization, they just preach some controversial ideals, I have this to ask you, if a high ranking government official's family was a member of Aryan Nations (a non-violent organization) would you want an investigation done on them?
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B-but slavery is perfectly okay and fine! Mohammed himself said so! That's why true righteous muslim countries like Saudi Arabia still allow it!Again: cultural relativism. It was a different culture. Are you also going to say that America is bad because it once had slaves?
The difference is that America realised slavery was wrong. Even at the time, almost all educated people in America were against it.
Even now, however, hundreds of millions of muslims think Mohammed is a positive role model for all people, even though anyone with an ounce of humanity can see that Mohammed was a disusting monster. If he really was inspired by a flawless divine creator there's no way he would have done so many terrible things, because he would have known better. Unless you're saying allah has the same sense of morality as your average 7th century desert dwelling murderous serial-raping sub-human.
I personally have two theories to explain Mohammed's behaviour.
1) He was an evil, cruel man who made up "allah" as an excuse to do bad things.
2) He was insane, and his actions were the result of voices in his head telling him what to do.
Perhaps it was a bit of both? What do you think?
I've had several muslims tell me that so-called muslims who don't read the Quran go to hell for not being islamic enough. I hope you remember to take some burn ointment.Even though I am Muslim, I have never read the Qu'ran, nor do I plan to.
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"Allah, what should we do with the infidels who don't accept you?"
"Kill them, Mohammed, kill them all!"
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I would just like to say the the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was a tranquil peacefull being...Who ONLY preached love and peace...
Anyone who knows the history of those times and this beings life will no THIS to be true. SO really, those who do negative acts while with the prophet muhammad's,
peace be upon him,name, or in his honor, are doing things wrong because that is not what this being was trying to teach his followers.
Muslims will always be a scapegoat for many because of most peoples lack of understanding towards them, so because of this lack of understanding they hate them because of their minority.
But the majority of Muslims are peaceful beings.
Last edited by Celestial Moth; 30th July 2012 at 5:19 PM.
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