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Thread: Islamophobia and McCarthyism

  1. #76
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    I have nothing against those of the Muslim/Islamic faith. In fact, I quite support the general ideas of purity and equality presented in the religion. I know very nice people of this faith.

    However, it is true that, as with every group, there are radicals. If you look at the Qu'ran, it does not support radicalism and inequality.

    It is clearly shown that in Islamic countries, certain things need to be improved; woman's rights, civil rights issues, freedom of speech, and more. Another example of radicalism is proven mercy killing cases, even in America. The accused always cite faith as their reason, but that shouldn't be the case because the true Islamic faith does NOT call for mercy killings and such. It is actually quite a peaceful religion.

    Groups such as the Muslim Brotherhood might need to work slightly on things such as corruption, radicalism, and civil rights.

    All in all, the Islamic/Muslim faith is a fantastic religion with sound morals and goals of purity, but there are definitely improvements to be made to call certain groups back to the original meaning of the faith.

    In case anyone was wondering, I am personally a Christian.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial Moth View Post
    I would just like to say the the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was a tranquil peacefull being...Who ONLY preached love and peace...
    Anyone who knows the history of those times and this beings life will no THIS to be true. SO really, those who do negative acts while with the prophet muhammad's,
    peace be upon him,name, or in his honor, are doing things wrong because that is not what this being was trying to teach his followers.
    No, he was not peaceful. He was bloodthirsty and merciless.

    He is responsible for so many awful crimes, that to call him peaceful is nothing short of madness. Even Adolf Hitler had more kindness in him than Mohammed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I would only call for an investigation only if there were legitimate claims that the government official had ties with terrorists.
    Yeah exactly. The woman who is being investigated has ties to a terrorist organiszation i.e. her whole family is a member of it.

    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial Moth
    I would just like to say the the Prophet Muhammad, peace be upon him, was a tranquil peacefull being...Who ONLY preached love and peace...
    Anyone who knows the history of those times and this beings life will no THIS to be true. SO really, those who do negative acts while with the prophet muhammad's,
    peace be upon him,name, or in his honor, are doing things wrong because that is not what this being was trying to teach his followers.

    Muslims will always be a scapegoat for many because of most peoples lack of understanding towards them, so because of this lack of understanding they hate them because of their minority.
    But the majority of Muslims are peaceful beings.
    You have to be joking. Mohammed on several occasions beat his wives (emphasis on the plural). He treated women as dogs, in fact even his own child bride asked him why women were made to be equal to farm animals. Mohammed calls for the murder of non-Muslims on countless occasions, as well as the execution of homosexuals etc.

    To say that Mohammed is a peaceful upright man is to say the Earth is flat. Both statements are of the same degree of stupidity and ignorance to facts.
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    We're still getting off topic here. It would be a shame if this topic, like many others, gets closed due to a flame war.

    We're here to talk about Bachmann's allegations. Are they legitimate, or is this another Red Scare?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post
    If you mean what I think you mean; in that the fact that I think that in many states gay marriage is illegal, and that suggests hatred between Judeo-Christianity in Gays (correct me if I am wrong) then that wasn't the point. Considering that I live in Canada (a country where gay marriage is legal and accepted by pretty much everyone, including myself) I never even considered that Gay marriage was illegal. It only further proves my point that all religions deprives certain groups of certain rights.
    That wasn't my point, I was getting at how you say religion deprives certain groups of certain rights. The reason I brought up that example is because in the majority of your posts you seem to slam Islam for being rather restrictive of other groups rights, in fact I remember you saying Islamic law/religion is one of hatred. I'm also from Canada and I know well enough that our laws are from a Judeo-Christian point of view, undermining multiculturalism ideals. However, you tend to conveniently turn a blind eye on other religions'/heritages' hate on certain groups (Conservative White Christians on Blacks especially from a standpoint of crime, Christians on Gays, Whites on Chinese with the Canadian implementation of the Chinese Head Tax, and many more examples).

    I can't see how you single out that Islam is harsh on groups when other religions do it ALL the time. Hint: even Islam has gotten oppressed after 9/11 and the creation of terrorist groups. That type of mentality is what ultimately results in Islamophobia.

    Quote Originally Posted by Iceberg View Post
    You have to be joking. Mohammed on several occasions beat his wives (emphasis on the plural). He treated women as dogs, in fact even his own child bride asked him why women were made to be equal to farm animals. Mohammed calls for the murder of non-Muslims on countless occasions, as well as the execution of homosexuals etc.

    To say that Mohammed is a peaceful upright man is to say the Earth is flat. Both statements are of the same degree of stupidity and ignorance to facts.
    To place allegations on Muhammad is also idiotic considering you weren't even existent in Muhammad's timeline. You will be faced by people questioning your credibility as well as flamed by our Muslim contemporaries here in Serebii Forums.
    Last edited by BurningWhiteKyurem; 31st July 2012 at 12:49 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    We're still getting off topic here. It would be a shame if this topic, like many others, gets closed due to a flame war.

    We're here to talk about Bachmann's allegations. Are they legitimate, or is this another Red Scare?
    They're ridiculous. When I sat down on Anderson Cooper, which a parent was watching, I saw the connections that were made that led to the Muslim Brotherhood. They were full of might-bes and possibilities, with so many degrees of separation.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    To place allegations on Muhammad is also idiotic considering you weren't even existent in Muhammad's timeline. You will be faced by people questioning your credibility as well as flamed by our Muslim contemporaries here in Serebii Forums.
    You do realize that you do not need to live during Mohammad's timeline to place allegations on him, especially since alot of Mohammad's actions are well documented. Alot of things mentioned in here, like Mohammad having sex with a child ( And no she hadn't reached puberty yet ), comes from Islamic sources including the Koran.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    To place allegations on Muhammad is also idiotic considering you weren't even existent in Muhammad's timeline.
    That's like saying you can't judge Hitler's actions, because you weren't alive back then.

    Quote Originally Posted by Skydra View Post
    They're ridiculous. When I sat down on Anderson Cooper, which a parent was watching, I saw the connections that were made that led to the Muslim Brotherhood. They were full of might-bes and possibilities, with so many degrees of separation.
    I think we both saw the same episode of AC360. That's where I first found about this story. The accusations do seem pretty shoddy at best.

    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You do realize that you do not need to live during Mohammad's timeline to place allegations on him, especially since alot of Mohammad's actions are well documented. Alot of things mentioned in here, like Mohammad having sex with a child ( And no she hadn't reached puberty yet ), comes from Islamic sources including the Koran.
    She might have actually reached puberty at her age. It's a different climate, and people have different diets. Also check out the first picture on Wikipedia's puberty article. Looks like it's possible to reach puberty by age 9 after all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    She might have actually reached puberty at her age. It's a different climate, and people have different diets. Also check out the first picture on Wikipedia's puberty article. Looks like it's possible to reach puberty by age 9 after all.
    The Koran states that she was playing with toys after she moved in and had sex, it was considered illegal at that time to play with dolls or images at the time, unless they were still a child, both culturally and religiously as the age of puberty you were expected to put such things away and be a adult, and the use of such images were forbidden on religious grounds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You do realize that you do not need to live during Mohammad's timeline to place allegations on him, especially since alot of Mohammad's actions are well documented. Alot of things mentioned in here, like Mohammad having sex with a child ( And no she hadn't reached puberty yet ), comes from Islamic sources including the Koran.
    Using sources is fine, but saying someone is not peaceful is rather easy when we're using current society norms to judge society from thousands of years ago. With that logic, why not ban prostitution, since it practiced slavery of young boys from ancient times?

    And I have Islamic sources saying that Aisha was a voice of guidance and direction for the Islam religion. Funny how people are quick to judge the Muhammad-Aisha dynamic as "pedophlistic" when they don't do further research.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    Using sources is fine, but saying someone is not peaceful is rather easy when we're using current society norms to judge society from thousands of years ago. With that logic, why not ban prostitution, since it practiced slavery of young boys from ancient times?
    Well one could say Mohammad waging war on other tribes pretty much discounts the saying he was peaceful. You don't get off slaughtering thousands and get labeled as peaceful.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    And I have Islamic sources saying that Aisha was a voice of guidance and direction for the Islam religion. Funny how people are quick to judge the Muhammad-Aisha dynamic as "pedophlistic" when they don't do further research.
    Except even if she was a voice of guidance and direction, that does not make something more or less pedophilistic, that deals completely with age and sex, not guidance and direction.

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    Maybe in the future when having sex with children is perfectly acceptable, then Muhammad will be exonerated.
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    I doubt that will happen
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    Forgot to share this. Last week, 42 religious and secular groups condemned Bachmann's claims.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/0...n_1706546.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    That wasn't my point, I was getting at how you say religion deprives certain groups of certain rights. The reason I brought up that example is because in the majority of your posts you seem to slam Islam for being rather restrictive of other groups rights, in fact I remember you saying Islamic law/religion is one of hatred. I'm also from Canada and I know well enough that our laws are from a Judeo-Christian point of view, undermining multiculturalism ideals. However, you tend to conveniently turn a blind eye on other religions'/heritages' hate on certain groups (Conservative White Christians on Blacks especially from a standpoint of crime, Christians on Gays, Whites on Chinese with the Canadian implementation of the Chinese Head Tax, and many more examples).

    I can't see how you single out that Islam is harsh on groups when other religions do it ALL the time. Hint: even Islam has gotten oppressed after 9/11 and the creation of terrorist groups. That type of mentality is what ultimately results in Islamophobia.



    To place allegations on Muhammad is also idiotic considering you weren't even existent in Muhammad's timeline. You will be faced by people questioning your credibility as well as flamed by our Muslim contemporaries here in Serebii Forums.
    I never said other religions are not hateful, in my opinion they all are. The world would be a better place if people kept religion inside their own homes, if not eliminate it in total. My point is that while some Christians/Jews/Catholics/etc. hold hateful values against other groups because of their religion (such as gays, or as you mentioned black people), countries that are dominated by said groups do not have laws (for the most part) anymore sanctioning the hatred of those groups. Unlike how in Islamic countries (such as Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan) the few hateful parts (as well as the non-hateful parts) of Islamic law are actually enforced by law. This is why I don't have a problem with the majority of Muslim immigration to Western nations. I know that as a woman, if I lived in a country where I needed a man to accompany me just to leave my house, I would want to leave too! It is sad that there are a few radicals who immigrate with the sole purpose of spreading their hate.

    Don't get me wrong, a lot of the ideals of all religions are repulsive, and of course, not all members of all religions practice those ideals (such as how most Christians don't sell their daughters or how most Muslims don't beat their wives for being "disobedient"). This topic was about Islamophobia, Bachmann's accusations, and ultimately the related to those accusations. Open a topic about the flaws with religion in total and I can guarantee that I will bash the hateful parts of every religion.

    On your other point of calling my claims about Mohammed "idiotic" and unfounded since I didn't personally know him (obviously), I'll have you know all my claims were taken straight from the Qu'ran and other Islamic scriptures. Unlike some I don't sit at home and make up random lies about others. I prefer to base them on fact, or in this case, their own book.

    However, as marioguy keeps pointing out this is getting off-topic.

    On the issue of Ms.Abedin, I don't see what the fuss is about. Her family has known ties to a radical (and depending on the day, a terrorist organization). If Ms.Abedin really has nothing to hide then she should have no problem letting an investigation be conducted on her. If it turns out that she had no ties than the while situation can be used to her favor. If it is found out that she does have ties, then it is better that we know about them before something bad comes from it.

    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy
    That's like saying you can't judge Hitler's actions, because you weren't alive back then.
    Exactly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    We're still getting off topic here. It would be a shame if this topic, like many others, gets closed due to a flame war.

    We're here to talk about Bachmann's allegations. Are they legitimate, or is this another Red Scare?
    Instead of spamming this topic, why not give us your own take on the issue?


    As for what Bachmann said, I wouldn't even worry about it. It seems to me that she sometimes says these things just to get attention, and based on the topic here and the reaction from this site on the issue, I'd say she succeeded. I'm not trying to stir up any controversy with this post. I'm simply making an observation.

    As for the issue of Islamophobia, that sounds like a made up term if there ever was one. The fact is, Islamists have had a bigger impact on the world in recent years than other religious figures, even going so far as to kill thousands of people in the name of their god. Tell me how that is not just screwed up.
    Last edited by SBaby; 1st August 2012 at 4:28 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    Instead of spamming this topic, why not give us your own take on the issue?


    As for what Bachmann said, I wouldn't even worry about it. It seems to me that she sometimes says these things just to get attention, and based on the topic here and the reaction from this site on the issue, I'd say she succeeded. I'm not trying to stir up any controversy with this post. I'm simply making an observation.

    As for the issue of Islamophobia, that sounds like a made up term if there ever was one. The fact is, Islamists have had a bigger impact on the world in recent years than other religious figures, even going so far as to kill thousands of people in the name of their god. Tell me how that is not just screwed up.
    I already did. Actually read the thread before you post.

    Islamophobia is a made up term? Aren't all terms made up? The reason the term even exists is because ignorant people like you blame Islam as a whole based on the actions of a small minority.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I already did. Actually read the thread before you post.

    Islamophobia is a made up term? Aren't all terms made up? The reason the term even exists is because ignorant people like you blame Islam as a whole based on the actions of a small minority.
    I'm not blaming them as a whole. I'm simply making an observation. Members of the Islam faith have in the past, killed countless people in the name of their god, and they continue to do this to this day. Thousands of Islamists celebrated and gave gifts to one another when the World Trade Center was destroyed on 9/11. Video of this celebration was shown on the news when it happened. And this is not the only time they've done this.
    Last edited by SBaby; 1st August 2012 at 4:59 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    To place allegations on Muhammad is also idiotic considering you weren't even existent in Muhammad's timeline. You will be faced by people questioning your credibility as well as flamed by our Muslim contemporaries here in Serebii Forums.
    Muhammed was a violent (fair enough in those times unless you are a prophet proselytising peace), chauvinistic, patriarchal quite possibly anti-semitic paedophile.

    I am a proud Islamaphobe. Islamophobia is nothing more than an attempt by moralistic hand wringers and muslims with vested interests to prevent criticism of their religion.

    Embrace Islamaphobia. Embrace hating a religion which orders apostates to be put to death. Avoid muslimophobia and you're all good.
    Last edited by Snorunt conservationist; 1st August 2012 at 1:51 PM.

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    To those that hate without a reasonable justification will be stricken down by the karma in which the energy being produced by such negative emotions and thoughts create.
    Obviously their are those who despise Muslims because of the acts in which some may have performed and now people are being affected by. Though if people live in the past they will never be happy and peaceful with the future let alone their present time in which they may exist in.Though all hate produces negative energy.

    Islamaphobia, is a simple term used to justify and legalize religious hate and discrimination in which would other wise be considered illegal by american law.
    Thus those acting within such words are legally exempt from such laws.. Go figure the rest out...

    Also, Islamaphobia in which the word would suggest, is a person being scared of an Islamic.So on a physiological level all this means is that a person that is attaching theirselfs to this "disorder"are not dealing with their emotional problems towards Muslims and Islam... Like most Phobia's the best CURE is to man up and deal with your emotional problems by confronting that phobia with an understanding.
    Last edited by Celestial Moth; 1st August 2012 at 5:41 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    Muhammed was a violent (fair enough in those times unless you are a prophet proselytising peace), chauvinistic, patriarchal quite possibly anti-semitic paedophile.

    I am a proud Islamaphobe. Islamophobia is nothing more than an attempt by moralistic hand wringers and muslims with vested interests to prevent criticism of their religion.

    Embrace Islamaphobia. Embrace hating a religion which orders apostates to be put to death. Avoid muslimophobia and you're all good.
    I'm not going to embrace Islamophobia just because you tell me to. Why would I hate a religion that has done absolutely nothing to harm me or my well-being? The fact that you're spewing this garbage only serves to show how close-minded you really are.


    Quote Originally Posted by Celestial Moth View Post
    To those that hate without a reasonable justification will be stricken down by the karma in which the energy being produced by such negative emotions and thoughts create.
    Obviously their are those who despise Muslims because of the acts in which some may have performed and now people are being affected by. Though if people live in the past they will never be happy and peaceful with the future let alone their present time in which they may exist in.Though all hate produces negative energy.

    Islamaphobia, is a simple term used to justify and legalize religious hate and discrimination in which would other wise be considered illegal by american law.
    Thus those acting within such words are legally exempt from such laws.. Go figure the rest out...

    Also, Islamaphobia in which the word would suggest, is a person being scared of an Islamic.So on a physiological level all this means is that a person that is attaching theirselfs to this "disorder"are not dealing with their emotional problems towards Muslims and Islam... Like most Phobia's the best CURE is to man up and deal with your emotional problems by confronting that phobia with an understanding.
    This. x10

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    You know honestly I do get kind of sick of "Islamophobia" being a catch all for any person that dares to question or worry about Islamic culture.

    Is looking into the possible radical ties of a person's family considered Islamophobia? No, it is being rational or prudent, yet suddenly because they are Muslim we attach a irrational fear (phobia) to it.

    Is worrying about being attacked by Muslims in Amsterdam because you are gay Islamophobia?
    What about being a woman walking through the "Sharia law enforced" areas of Britain?

    The vast and I do mean vast majority of Muslims on the North American continent are great people, but it is ignorant to believe that attributes to the rest of the world, honestly Islam above any other religion right now needs to get its act together. BurningWhiteKyurem you may say that Islam or Muslims have done nothing to harm you or your well being, that is very true. But in far too many countries in this world you could be living in, that is false. And being prudent and worrying about what is happening in the Middle East or even Europe right now is not a phobia, it is being realistic.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The vast and I do mean vast majority of Muslims on the North American continent are great people, but it is ignorant to believe that attributes to the rest of the world, honestly Islam above any other religion right now needs to get its act together. BurningWhiteKyurem you may say that Islam or Muslims have done nothing to harm you or your well being, that is very true. But in far too many countries in this world you could be living in, that is false. And being prudent and worrying about what is happening in the Middle East or even Europe right now is not a phobia, it is being realistic.
    The people need to get their acts together moreso than the religion itself. We have suicide bombers who claim that their acts is justifiable, yet a quick read in the Qur'an will show that suicide is condemned, violence against innocents is condemned, murder is also condemned (context, there's eye for an eye, but murdering any more than that results in sin). What does that tell me? People need to start understanding their own religion instead of spilling blood in their hands.

    People (such as suicide bombers and terrorists) give Islam a bad name because of their idiotic interpretation of the text when it's found that their actions are not even close to justifiable.

    My point is I'm not going to blindly hate something without justification (even then that's no longer blind hate). To hate something is to continue the cycle of violence. And I agree, if I was in the Middle East, it wouldn't apply, but it's a two-way street there...we have Israelis unnecessarily killing without justification, and we have Muslims unnecessarily killing without justification as well...all that for the sake of a land.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    The people need to get their acts together moreso than the religion itself. We have suicide bombers who claim that their acts is justifiable, yet a quick read in the Qur'an will show that suicide is condemned, violence against innocents is condemned, murder is also condemned (context, there's eye for an eye, but murdering any more than that results in sin). What does that tell me? People need to start understanding their own religion instead of spilling blood in their hands.

    People (such as suicide bombers and terrorists) give Islam a bad name because of their idiotic interpretation of the text when it's found that their actions are not even close to justifiable.

    My point is I'm not going to blindly hate something without justification (even then that's no longer blind hate). To hate something is to continue the cycle of violence.
    Honestly you can find verses in the Quran that justify those killings, the suicide attacks, etc etc, just as you can find verses that justify peace. Things like:

    "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

    "I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."

    Honestly, the thing about the Koran is that it is honestly bipolar, you can find justification for nearly anything in there and mainly that can be attributed to Mohammad's journey who started off as a man of peace, and ended up a warlord.

    Quote Originally Posted by BurningWhiteKyurem View Post
    And I agree, if I was in the Middle East, it wouldn't apply, but it's a two-way street there...we have Israelis unnecessarily killing without justification, and we have Muslims unnecessarily killing without justification as well...all that for the sake of a land.
    Funny thing is, a Muslim can walk down the streets of Israel and survive, can't say the same for a Jew walking down the streets of Palestine.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Honestly you can find verses in the Quran that justify those killings, the suicide attacks, etc etc, just as you can find verses that justify peace. Things like:

    "Let those fight in the way of Allah who sell the life of this world for the other. Whoso fighteth in the way of Allah, be he slain or be he victorious, on him We shall bestow a vast reward."

    "I would love to be martyred in Allah's Cause and then get resurrected and then get martyred, and then get resurrected again and then get martyred and then get resurrected again and then get martyred."

    Honestly, the thing about the Koran is that it is honestly bipolar, you can find justification for nearly anything in there and mainly that can be attributed to Mohammad's journey who started off as a man of peace, and ended up a warlord.



    Funny thing is, a Muslim can walk down the streets of Israel and survive, can't say the same for a Jew walking down the streets of Palestine.
    Not to mention, as I said above, thousands upon thousands of Muslims celebrated and gave gifts to one another when the WTC fell. There is footage of this. That right there should say something. And this is not an isolated case. They do this almost every time someone is killed in the name of their god. For a supposed religion of peace, it sure tends to be violent. Again, this is not Islamophobia. I'm simply making an observation based on historical facts.
    Last edited by SBaby; 1st August 2012 at 8:55 PM.
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