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Thread: Satan - Is he really evil?

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    Default Satan - Is he really evil?

    This really baffles me. In the Bible, Satan never actually did anything wrong. The only thing he did was convince Yahweh to test Job.

    It seems to me like Satan is just a scape-goat for Yahweh, and I feel bad for him. I'm sure he's a nice guy when you get to know him.

    So what do you guys think?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    This really baffles me. In the Bible, Satan never actually did anything wrong. The only thing he did was convince Yahweh to test Job.

    It seems to me like Satan is just a scape-goat for Yahweh, and I feel bad for him. I'm sure he's a nice guy when you get to know him.

    So what do you guys think?
    I don't believe in Satan. I believe true evil lives in the hearts of flawed organisms, human beings.

    For the purpose of your argument, you may want to say "According to the contexts of the Bible" to which, I don't perfectly know the answer for you. It really doesn't make sense to me that the embodiment of evil is in control of the evil souls.

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    Well I personally don't believe neither in god or satan, but if we consider satan as he is described in christianism, I actually kinda thought the same thing.
    Also, human beings are "evil" either because they're more sensitive to negative influences or they actually think they're doing good. In both cases, it's not really their fault anyway.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Luann View Post
    Also, human beings are "evil" either because they're more sensitive to negative influences or they actually think they're doing good. In both cases, it's not really their fault anyway.
    Hitler was an insane, corrupted individual who worked more for his own selfish desires than for anybody else. You cannot convince me that Hitler had no fault.

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    For the record, I'm also an atheist.
    Ash nazg durbatulűk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    ash nazg thrakatulűk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuma
    No morals for you evolutionists.
    Please avoid saying things like that.

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    I think the 'evil' in this context not really a lapse in behavoir, but more of a dysfunctionality. It's sort of a mechanical cause and effect sort of thing. The farther away you get from your creator, the source of your very being, the more you break down and get corrupted. Ethics as we know it might have nothing to do with it. In fact, the scariest figures the in Christian religion are almost ethically perfect and good. The good and evil of the Bible is not so much 'perfect good' and 'perfect evil' but 'for God' annd 'against God'. Mean and violent people can be Godly and good and miraculous people can be evil. The only way this makes sense is if you consider your spiritual welfare more important that mortal suffering, and if you don't believe in immaterial things like that, you probably won't get it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    The only thing he did was convince Yahweh to test Job.
    If you think that's the only thing Satan ever did in the Bible, you're sorely misinformed.

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    Satan's just doing his job, like the rest of us. I'm pretty sure on Sundays and Bank Holidays, he's probably a pretty nice guy, for the most part.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic Politoed View Post
    Hitler was an insane, corrupted individual who worked more for his own selfish desires than for anybody else. You cannot convince me that Hitler had no fault.
    Hitler was deeply convinced that Jews were a danger for society way before he started his career in politics. Now I'm not trying to defend him or what he did, but he serves just perfectly as an example that human's actions and thoughts are nothing more that a chain of consequences nobody is really to be blamed for.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    This really baffles me. In the Bible, Satan never actually did anything wrong. The only thing he did was convince Yahweh to test Job.

    It seems to me like Satan is just a scape-goat for Yahweh, and I feel bad for him. I'm sure he's a nice guy when you get to know him.

    So what do you guys think?
    Have you even read the Bible before? Because if that's the only instance you know/can think of, than like one of the other posters said before, you are sorely misinformed.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cometstarlight View Post
    Have you even read the Bible before? Because if that's the only instance you know/can think of, than like one of the other posters said before, you are sorely misinformed.
    Yes, I have read the bible. The Old Testament, that is.
    Ash nazg durbatulűk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    ash nazg thrakatulűk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuma
    No morals for you evolutionists.
    Please avoid saying things like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Luann View Post
    Hitler was deeply convinced that Jews were a danger for society way before he started his career in politics. Now I'm not trying to defend him or what he did, but he serves just perfectly as an example that human's actions and thoughts are nothing more that a chain of consequences nobody is really to be blamed for.
    Hitler was to be blamed for the Holocaust in WWII!

    What about Stalin and Mao, they both killed more people than Hitler. They were fully aware that what they were doing was wrong, but good for them and their desires. We're not just physical objects, we are organisms with flaws and motives.

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    Personally, I don't think he's real, so...no?

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    About the Genesis one. I have the original Hebrew version, and no where does it mention anything about Satan. The snake was just a normal snake. In fact, part of the mythos is that the snake had legs back then, but Yahweh took the snake's legs as punishment.

    The one in Chronicles isn't Satan either, just a translation mistake. The word "Satan" in Hebrew simply means "Enemy". Chronicles mentions a "Satan" as just a normal enemy, not the divine one.

    I already mentioned Job.

    The New Testament is non-canon, so it doesn't count.
    Last edited by Megaton666; 7th July 2012 at 9:53 AM.
    Ash nazg durbatulűk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    ash nazg thrakatulűk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuma
    No morals for you evolutionists.
    Please avoid saying things like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    About the Genesis one. I have the original Hebrew version, and no where does it mention anything about Satan. The snake was just a normal snake. In fact, part of the mythos is that the snake had legs back then, but Yahweh took the snake's legs as punishment.

    The one in Chronicles isn't Satan either, just a translation mistake. The word "Satan" in Hebrew simply means "Enemy". Chronicles mentions a "Satan" as just a normal enemy, not the divine one.

    I already mentioned Job.

    The New Testament is non-canon, so it doesn't count.
    Why doesn't the New Testament count?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Luann View Post
    Hitler was deeply convinced that Jews were a danger for society way before he started his career in politics. Now I'm not trying to defend him or what he did, but he serves just perfectly as an example that human's actions and thoughts are nothing more that a chain of consequences nobody is really to be blamed for.
    Ridiculous statement.

    On topic, can Satan really be evil if he is carrying out the word of God?

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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Why doesn't the New Testament count?
    Because it was written much later and its purpose was mainly to convert people. The addition of an antagonist was to scare people into joining Christianity.
    Ash nazg durbatulűk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    ash nazg thrakatulűk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuma
    No morals for you evolutionists.
    Please avoid saying things like that.

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    This sums up pretty much what makes the Bible such a scary piece of literature. It condemns critical thinking and praises the blind following of authority. Rebellion is portrayed as evil. God is technically the ultimate dictator, all-powerful and all-knowing and impossible to decieve. I can't understand how people find comfort in believing in something like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    Because it was written much later and its purpose was mainly to convert people. The addition of an antagonist was to scare people into joining Christianity.
    Perhaps but I thought that the New testament was basicly the most important part of christianity.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Perhaps but I thought that the New testament was basicly the most important part of christianity.
    It is. But the Old Testament is the core off all Abrahamic religions.


    Let me tell you how it all began:

    a long time ago a book was written called "The Bible". It was such a bestseller that they released an uncut version which featured a "New Testament". This uncut version was universally acclaimed. As such, a sequal was inevitable. The sequal was called "The Quran" and, while popular, was heavily criticized for its use of shock content.
    Last edited by Megaton666; 7th July 2012 at 2:32 PM.
    Ash nazg durbatulűk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    ash nazg thrakatulűk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuma
    No morals for you evolutionists.
    Please avoid saying things like that.

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    Satan is just another patr of christian religion that doesn't make sense. He punish bad people, and is concidered so bad himself. He should be encouraging this sort of behaviour, not punish it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    About the Genesis one. I have the original Hebrew version, and no where does it mention anything about Satan. The snake was just a normal snake. In fact, part of the mythos is that the snake had legs back then, but Yahweh took the snake's legs as punishment.
    You're correct that Genesis 3 does not overtly identify the serpent as Satan, but many other places in the Bible do.
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    The one in Chronicles isn't Satan either, just a translation mistake. The word "Satan" in Hebrew simply means "Enemy". Chronicles mentions a "Satan" as just a normal enemy, not the divine one.
    I have no clue what you mean by "the divine one". Satan is not divine. Beyond that, who are you to determine that "Satan" there should be "satan". What evidence do you have that it is not talking about "the" Satan?
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    I already mentioned Job.
    I'm glad you mentioned it. How does that make it okay?
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    The New Testament is non-canon, so it doesn't count.
    lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Snorunt conservationist View Post
    On topic, can Satan really be evil if he is carrying out the word of God?
    That's a great question, and what I really think this thread should have been about. There are plenty of cases of God using particularly evil people to carry out his will in various ways: Pharaoh, Nebuchadnezzar, Herod, etc, etc, etc.
    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    The addition of an antagonist was to scare people into joining Christianity.
    Where's your evidence that an antagonist was added? I see Satan in the Old Testament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mattj View Post
    You're correct that Genesis 3 does not overtly identify the serpent as Satan, but many other places in the Bible do.
    All I see there is "The snake talked so it must be Satan".

    I have no clue what you mean by "the divine one". Satan is not divine. Beyond that, who are you to determine that "Satan" there should be "satan". What evidence do you have that it is not talking about "the" Satan?
    I say this based on context, and the fact that I learned this stuff in school.
    It goes "A satan rose against David". Not God, David. It talks about war that's about to start.

    I'm glad you mentioned it. How does that make it okay?
    Remember what Satan did in Job? He tricked Yahweh into testing Job. That can be blamed on Yahweh's idiocy rather than on Satan's evil.

    Where's your evidence that an antagonist was added? I see Satan in the Old Testament.
    My evidence is that Satan is mentioned all of once in the Old testament.
    Ash nazg durbatulűk, ash nazg gimbatul,
    ash nazg thrakatulűk agh burzum-ishi krimpatul.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sakuma
    No morals for you evolutionists.
    Please avoid saying things like that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megaton666 View Post
    My evidence is that Satan is mentioned all of once in the Old testament.
    wow just wow

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