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Thread: Cheating on your partner.. is it as wrong as people make it out to be

  1. #351
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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    The two chemicals are what make our genetic makeup and differentiate male from female. Denying this and chemical traits just makes you an blatant ignorant idiot.
    Takes one to know one, "almost-genius."
    And I wasn't denying it. You are ignoring what else I said. Estrogen and testosterone do create visible biological differences. What they do not do is dictate personality traits or individual actions.

    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    Of course society plays a role, but those stereotypes and gender roles placed by society don't appear into thin air for no reason.
    Of course they don't appear out of thin air. They appear out of centuries of "Might-makes-right" rule that over time create rigid social structures in order to easily control large groups of people for the benefit of a few.
    How did the mathematician solve his constipation problem?
    He worked it out with a pencil.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    The two chemicals are what make our genetic makeup and differentiate male from female. Denying this and chemical traits just makes you an blatant ignorant idiot.



    Of course society plays a role, but those stereotypes and gender roles placed by society don't appear into thin air for no reason.
    So give me a source. If you can easily do so, do it. Otherwise, you're just spouting off your own opinions with nothing to back it up.

    Testosterone and estrogen are important hormones, but they aren't the only ones that play major roles in the human body (or the human psyche). Your hormones don't determine your genetic makeup anyway, your genetics do. Someone with two X chromosomes could have high testosterone, but she's still female.

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    Takes one to know one, "almost-genius."Takes one to know one, "almost-genius."
    That figure of speech holds no meaning here, in fact it doesn't even make sense. By the logic, the stupider your are, the easier it would be for you to recognize stupidity?

    Of course they don't appear out of thin air. They appear out of centuries of "Might-makes-right" rule that over time create rigid social structures in order to easily control large groups of people for the benefit of a few.
    As I stated above, testosterone effects the need for dominance, which leads to all of the other things I mentioned.

    Testosterone and estrogen are important hormones, but they aren't the only ones that play major roles in the human body (or the human psyche). Your hormones don't determine your genetic makeup anyway, your genetics do. Someone with two X chromosomes could have high testosterone, but she's still female.
    http://www.livestrong.com/article/26...terone-in-men/

    And of course there are tons of other hormones. Though I can't say there is proven correlation between genetics and hormone levels and neurological processes. Autism is proof of that.
    Last edited by iFi Salamander; 13th September 2012 at 11:59 PM.

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  4. #354
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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    That figure of speech holds no meaning here, in fact it doesn't even make sense. By the logic, the stupider your are, the easier it would be for you to recognize stupidity?
    By that logic, you must be v. good at recognizing stupidity, yes.

    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    As I stated above, testosterone effects the need for dominance, which leads to all of the other things I mentioned.
    Holy cognitive leaps, batman!
    While we're at it:
    http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases...1208132241.htm
    http://fpb.case.edu/smartcenter/docs...ces%202006.pdf
    Also, please RAVEN when you can.
    (RAVEN:
    "Remember: "affect:" verb. Effect: noun.")
    How did the mathematician solve his constipation problem?
    He worked it out with a pencil.

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    By that logic, you must be v. good at recognizing stupidity, yes.
    I can recognize intelligence too. Must me I am stupid and intelligent, if that actually makes any sense.

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    There are friends, family and if neither of those are available, there are plenty of shelters and available programs. Either way, getting your kids as far away from that environment is by far the best for them. But this is really bordering on another debate so I'll cut it there.
    What fantasy world are you living in? Homeless shelters aren't exactly as common as fastfood joints that you see coming across every exit on the freeway. Even if you do have access to one, the time you're allowed to stay there is very limited, because there are other people seeking refuge. Homeless shelters can't take in everyone.

    You may not want to accept it, but there is a such thing as just being completely and thoroughly fucked.

    What I've gathered from the last few pages is an attempt to justify irrational thought. I can't say I agree with that.
    I take it you also think things like crimes of passion and the like should be completely erased from the legal system then.
    Last edited by Dryzera; 14th September 2012 at 1:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    That figure of speech holds no meaning here, in fact it doesn't even make sense. By the logic, the stupider your are, the easier it would be for you to recognize stupidity?



    As I stated above, testosterone effects the need for dominance, which leads to all of the other things I mentioned.


    http://www.livestrong.com/article/26...terone-in-men/

    And of course there are tons of other hormones. Though I can't say there is proven correlation between genetics and hormone levels and neurological processes. Autism is proof of that.
    Your article discusses behavioral changes due to unnaturally high testosterone. That means nothing to the discussion of why abused men rarely admit to it.i

    Edit: Also, great article, Kochou. I hadn't seen that research yet. Interesting research findings.
    Last edited by Pesky Persian; 14th September 2012 at 1:50 AM.

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    I think now we are getting off topic.

    But my last words on the subject will be that being abused does not give you the right to cheat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    Your article discusses behavioral changes due to unnaturally high testosterone. That means nothing to the discussion of why abused men rarely admit to it.
    It discusses the effect it has on dominance, put the pieces together.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    It discusses the effect it has on dominance, put the pieces together.
    Except we're talking about men with normal testosterone levels...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    Except we're talking about men with normal testosterone levels...
    You aren't thinking.

    Raised testosterone levels amplify the need for dominance. Therefore more testosterone more dominance, dominance leads to the need to feel like the stronger human being. This in turn builds the rigid social guidelines you mentioned. Therefore the need to appeal to these rules=to the level of testosterone times x. X being the correlation. By having more testosterone you are more insecure about coming out of your shell because of your pride.

    Women have far less testosterone than women so will then more openly defy the social guidlines.

    Of course for women they barely exist to begin with because they lack the testosterone to bring them forth in the first place.
    Last edited by iFi Salamander; 14th September 2012 at 2:24 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryzera View Post
    What fantasy world are you living in? Homeless shelters aren't exactly as common as fastfood joints that you see coming across every exit on the freeway. Even if you do have access to one, the time you're allowed to stay there is very limited, because there are other people seeking refuge. Homeless shelters can't take in everyone.

    You may not want to accept it, but there is a such thing as just being completely and thoroughly fucked.



    I take it you also think things like crimes of passion and the like should be completely erased from the legal system then.
    I live in the real world thank you very much.

    Do please define crimes of passion because that's a very vague way of putting at few things that come to mind.

    Quote Originally Posted by kochoupink View Post
    Takes one to know one, "almost-genius."
    And I wasn't denying it. You are ignoring what else I said. Estrogen and testosterone do create visible biological differences. What they do not do is dictate personality traits or individual actions.
    Roid rage would like a word with you.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    About 97% of these women posing for pornographic pictures are held at gunpoint, and it can be anywhere. The majority of the time is by force.
    Lulz wat?

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    Cheating occurs for 3 no 4 reasons

    Lack of communication ( this leads to a break down in the emotions between people and they either loose their passion or the feeling of love ect whatever)
    A partner feeling incompetent ( This one right here is why alot of sane men in their 30-50s cheat, they find someone who they feel like they can take care of)
    Your not in a real relationship and your being manipulated. ( This is a loveless relationship and your a blooming idiot)

    The other reason is your a horny ermine who has no control over his or her emotions , these are the most dangerous of humans as they will do anything in the name of their emotions. After all the horrible things people do spawn from how they feel one way or another.

    Here's an example say your a guy, and your sex drive is insane and you let yourself go in your head and you constantly need sex or think about it. Like an addiction and you cant think normally without having it, and your wife is ... unwilling to give it up, this is the result of not being able to reign in your emotions before these feelings became an addiction and a lack of communication on one level.
    Last edited by arceus7; 14th September 2012 at 2:27 AM.

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    I live in the real world thank you very much.
    Act like it.

    Do please define crimes of passion because that's a very vague way of putting at few things that come to mind.
    To wikipedia!

    A crime of passion, or crime passionnel, in popular usage, refers to a crime in which the perpetrator commits a crime, especially assault, murder or rape, against someone because of sudden strong impulse such as sudden rage or heartbreak rather than as a premeditated crime.
    Also, you may want to look into justifiable homicide.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide

    So I'll just reiterate this one more time. You, I, and we as a society can justify the taking of another persons life, but yet you cannot in any way be assed to justify the act of cheating on someone, even in the event of consistent physical and or mental abuse? That's mega screwed up man.
    Last edited by Dryzera; 14th September 2012 at 2:39 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by kochoupink View Post
    His source is the same pseudoscientific evo-psych bs that the internet loves to use to tell women to get back in the kitchen.
    Anyone want to play some bingo?

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    You aren't thinking.

    Raised testosterone levels amplify the need for dominance. Therefore more testosterone more dominance, dominance leads to the need to feel like the stronger human being. This in turn builds the rigid social guidelines you mentioned. Therefore the need to appeal to these rules=to the level of testosterone times x. X being the correlation. By having more testosterone you are more insecure about coming out of your shell because of your pride.

    Women have far less testosterone than women so will then more openly defy the social guidlines.

    Of course for women they barely exist to begin with because they lack the testosterone to bring them forth in the first place.
    You're not seeing the bigger picture. Humans are not slaves to hormones. Desire for dominance is not a sex-specific trait. Personalities are not 100% genetic. The nature vs. nurture argument is outdated. Nature and nurture both play a role in human psychological development.

    If men are more dominant because of testosterone, how do you explain women with normal hormones and dominant personalities? What about men who are more submissive? What about past and present matriarchal societies? Hunter-gatherer groups were largely matriarchal. It wasn't until humans settled down to farm that patriarchy became the global norm. Society plays a huge part in gender stereotypes. Girls are taught from a ypung age that it's okay to be the victim. Boys are taught that men are always the hero.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    You're not seeing the bigger picture. Humans are not slaves to hormones. Desire for dominance is not a sex-specific trait. Personalities are not 100% genetic. The nature vs. nurture argument is outdated. Nature and nurture both play a role in human psychological development.

    If men are more dominant because of testosterone, how do you explain women with normal hormones and dominant personalities? What about men who are more submissive? What about past and present matriarchal societies? Hunter-gatherer groups were largely matriarchal. It wasn't until humans settled down to farm that patriarchy became the global norm. Society plays a huge part in gender stereotypes. Girls are taught from a ypung age that it's okay to be the victim. Boys are taught that men are always the hero.
    I was merely defining the statistics, not explaining that every single man is that way.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    I was merely defining the statistics, not explaining that every single man is that way.
    I'd wager the statistics are more societal too. Testosterone doesn't tell men it's acceptable to treat women like shit. Culture and how they're raised does. It's why feminism is such a big thing (I'm not talking about man-hating feminists, by the way because I know there are people here who shout "Feminazi!" every time someone brings up the dreaded f-word and I'm not talking about the four-letter one...).

    Edit: I'm not saying all men treat women poorly. And I'm not saying only men treat people in general poorly. There are women out there who aren't very good human beings either. I'm just saying that as far as crimes and attitudes against women go, it's largely how men are raised and not due to testosterone.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    I'd wager the statistics are more societal too. Testosterone doesn't tell men it's acceptable to treat women like shit. Culture and how they're raised does. It's why feminism is such a big thing (I'm not talking about man-hating feminists, by the way because I know there are people here who shout "Feminazi!" every time someone brings up the dreaded f-word and I'm not talking about the four-letter one...).

    Edit: I'm not saying all men treat women poorly. And I'm not saying only men treat people in general poorly. There are women out there who aren't very good human beings either. I'm just saying that as far as crimes and attitudes against women go, it's largely how men are raised and not due to testosterone.
    You are drifting away from the premise. I am not saying society isn't part to blame but it sounds like this is a world issue that upsets you an you are going all feminist.

    I am just saying this in the same way I'd say Africian American's have higher crime rate. It is just the way it is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    You are drifting away from the premise. I am not saying society isn't part to blame but it sounds like this is a world issue that upsets you an you are going all feminist.

    I am just saying this in the same way I'd say Africian American's have higher crime rate. It is just the way it is.
    Wait...

    You used genetic arguments to explain why fewer men admit to being abused... And then you bring up African American crime rates? Please tell me you're not going to pull some poorly understood genetic argument for that one too.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    Wait...

    You used genetic arguments to explain why fewer men admit to being abused... And then you bring up African American crime rates? Please tell me you're not going to pull some poorly understood genetic argument for that one too.
    No, I am using an anecdote to get you to comprehend my point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    No, I am using an anecdote to get you to comprehend my point.
    You're not making a very good point. You just flip-flopped your argument. First, you tried to use the genetic argument, then you conceded that society plays a role.

    Have you ever considered a career in politics?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    You're not making a very good point. You just flip-flopped your argument. First, you tried to use the genetic argument, then you conceded that society plays a role.

    Have you ever considered a career in politics?
    Testosterone is the reason those rigid guidelines in society got that way, and I even used an equation to show how. I was simply saying it was a chain of reasons. I don't think you really got it though...

    That would require boring law school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    Testosterone is the reason those rigid guidelines in society got that way, and I even used an equation to show how. I was simply saying it was a chain of reasons. I don't think you really got it though...

    That would require boring law school.
    You haven't given any evidence to support that, other than one article that says nothing about hormones relating to societal norms. Kochou even gave an interesting research article that refuted stereotypes about elevated testosterone levels. I get where you're attempting to come from, but your evidence to support it is poor (and considering the article talked about elevated testosterone levels [which is not the same as normal, baseline levels] your evidence is circumstantial at best).

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    You haven't given any evidence to support that, other than one article that says nothing about hormones relating to societal norms. Kochou even gave an interesting research article that refuted stereotypes about elevated testosterone levels. I get where you're attempting to come from, but your evidence to support it is poor (and considering the article talked about elevated testosterone levels [which is not the same as normal, baseline levels] your evidence is circumstantial at best).
    It is funny how once I have proven my point you drop to denying my empirical evidence as a last desperate chance for me not to be right.

    I could find you hundreds of articles to prove my same point, the reality is I did the homework, and you'll just keep denying them so why even bother continuing this debate?

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