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Thread: Cheating on your partner.. is it as wrong as people make it out to be

  1. #376
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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    It is funny how once I have proven my point you drop to denying my empirical evidence as a last desperate chance for me not to be right.

    I could find you hundreds of articles to prove my same point, the reality is I did the homework, and you'll just keep denying them so why even bother continuing this debate?
    You actually haven't proven anything. Even biological theories on patriarchy have nothing to do with hormones directly and everything to do with men having to be more competitive against each other to gain women. Batman's principle is a good example of this biological theory. The vast majority of sociologists reject the idea of patriarchy being a result of genetics. Male dominance is widely seen as a social norm that has been passed down over the years through culture. The reason for patriarchy is still up for debate, but the point is that hormones have little or nothing to do with the way men are raised to behave in modern society.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pesky Persian View Post
    You actually haven't proven anything. Even biological theories on patriarchy have nothing to do with hormones directly and everything to do with men having to be more competitive against each other to gain women. Batman's principle is a good example of this biological theory. The vast majority of sociologists reject the idea of patriarchy being a result of genetics. Male dominance is widely seen as a social norm that has been passed down over the years through culture. The reason for patriarchy is still up for debate, but the point is that hormones have little or nothing to do with the way men are raised to behave in modern society.
    You can not seriously tell me that when you stick two male dogs and a female dog together, their competition for a mate has nothing to do with hormones, namely testosterone. I am not talking about patriarchy, I am telling you why men compete with each other, and how this built the rigid social expectancies.

    Men by nature are hard-wired to be hunters and primary supporters. Yes society makes a male feel more socially uncomfortable about coming out about an abusive relationship. I am explaining how we got to that point.

    Also I can't remember the last time I have heard any man of dignity say they took a beating from a girl. Even rarer is a male who claims to have gotten raped. Hell most guys can't say no under that level of coercing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by iFi Salamander View Post
    You can not seriously tell me that when you stick two male dogs and a female dog together, their competition for a mate has nothing to do with hormones, namely testosterone. I am not talking about patriarchy, I am telling you why men compete with each other, and how this built the rigid social expectancies.

    Men by nature are hard-wired to be hunters and primary supporters. Yes society makes a male feel more socially uncomfortable about coming out about an abusive relationship. I am explaining how we got to that point.

    Also I can't remember the last time I have heard any man of dignity say they took a beating from a girl. Even rarer is a male who claims to have gotten raped. Hell most guys can't say no under that level of coercing.
    Actually, the dogs would likely only fight over the female if she's in heat, meaning she'd be releasing pheromones that cause a behavior response in the males by stimulating the increase of sex hormones. Under normal conditions, male dogs aren't more likely to fight (in fact, speaking specifically of dogs, females are typically more aggressive towards other females than males are to males under normal conditions). The pheromone argument doesn't hold up in humans because vomeronasal organ (used to detect pheromone chemoreceptors to send to the brain) is considered nonfunctional in humans. We don't have the genetic code to make it work, basically.

    Hormones have little to do with cultural behavior in modern humans. Society has a much bigger influence.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bel9 View Post
    Anyone want to play some bingo?
    This is my favorite you are my favorite thank you.
    iFi Salamander, did you actually read the scientific papers I sent you on how testosterone affecting personality and decisions was in fact a myth?

    Quote Originally Posted by ChedWick View Post
    Roid rage would like a word with you.
    That's an overdose of testosterone. Overdoses of anything have unpredictable effects. He's arguing that natural levels of testosterone control human decision-making enough to override basic survival instinct.
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    Quote Originally Posted by bel9 View Post
    Anyone want to play some bingo?
    As an unlaid male undergrad studying evolution and psychology, it is very difficult for me to find this funny or clever (but not impossible). Another name for the field: anthropological psychology. The study of the human species and its development throughout its historic lifespan. Our bodies have evolved, I'm sure we can all agree. I sincerely do not understand the immediate ridicule that occurs when it is further posed that our brains are parts of our bodies and therefore have also evolved. If it were limited to opposition to the bad science (of which there is, in the jargon, a "crapton," and to a good example of which we are currently being treated) that would be one thing, but people just seem to have this automatic aversive reaction to the idea of the human brain with an evolutionary past. Of course that is not reducible to just genes, or just environments, or even just cultures, but our brains were and are most certainly built by, affected by, and contributors to all of those forces.



    Yes I just came here to whine and pontificate. It's a modern implementation of a natural reaction to what I perceived as a threat to my social status, so it's okay.

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    Yes I just came here to whine and pontificate. It's a modern implementation of a natural reaction to what I perceived as a threat to my social status, so it's okay.
    You're funny.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Profesco View Post
    As an unlaid male undergrad studying evolution and psychology, it is very difficult for me to find this funny or clever (but not impossible). Another name for the field: anthropological psychology. The study of the human species and its development throughout its historic lifespan. Our bodies have evolved, I'm sure we can all agree. I sincerely do not understand the immediate ridicule that occurs when it is further posed that our brains are parts of our bodies and therefore have also evolved. If it were limited to opposition to the bad science (of which there is, in the jargon, a "crapton," and to a good example of which we are currently being treated) that would be one thing, but people just seem to have this automatic aversive reaction to the idea of the human brain with an evolutionary past. Of course that is not reducible to just genes, or just environments, or even just cultures, but our brains were and are most certainly built by, affected by, and contributors to all of those forces.



    Yes I just came here to whine and pontificate. It's a modern implementation of a natural reaction to what I perceived as a threat to my social status, so it's okay.
    To be fair, you're actually studying these things and have an understanding of the theories. Looking at things from a combination biology/psychology/anthropology point of view is much different than spouting "Testosterone is the answer!" to every male behavior. The bingo game is actually pretty accurate of pseudo-evopsychologists all over the internet. Emphasis on pseudo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryzera View Post

    It's my fault for choosing to stay with someone abusive? What if I'm pretty low on the socio-economic ladder dude? Divorces cost money. Do you think all women that choose to stay with their abusive husbands are really just a bunch of dumb bitches, and if they're too stupid to get out, they deserve what's coming to them? Sometimes a woman has nowhere else to go, especially if there is kids involved. What's better, staying with your abusive husband, or being a single mom out on the streets? Personally, I'll take a few more beatings before I'd allow my own children to starve.
    You don't know divorce to well if this is your argument. My sister in law had no job, 3 kids, and had enough government "hand outs" to survive until she got a job and child support kicked in. The street is better than staying. I know I lived there for a while along time ago.


    To recap, I believe that cheating is wrong, most of the time. In rare and special cases, such as a woman that's being abused, I believe that the act is excusable and that it is not fair to make a black and white moralistic judgement against a person in such a situation. Yes, it is still a "bad idea" but that's not really what's at the heart of this discussion. We are debating about whether cheating is wrong. Something being a bad idea is a far cry from it being a moral affront.
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    You don't know divorce to well if this is your argument. My sister in law had no job, 3 kids, and had enough government "hand outs" to survive until she got a job and child support kicked in. The street is better than staying. I know I lived there for a while along time ago.
    The government can't give you a "handout" if there's no place that you're living in to send a check. Or have you seen a person living under a bench lately waving around his EBT card? Plus, anecdotal evidence sucks.
    Last edited by Dryzera; 14th September 2012 at 7:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryzera View Post
    Act like it.
    Right back atcha toots.


    To wikipedia!
    Right, I supose I should have thought about actually googling that. It seemed rather bland to be a popular phrase, so for my ignorance I apologize.

    From the core theme "A crime of passion, or crime passionnel, in popular usage, refers to a crime in which the perpetrator commits a crime, especially assault, murder or rape, against someone because of sudden strong impulse such as sudden rage or heartbreak rather than as a premeditated crime."

    I must say, I don't quite understand where you conclude I think crimes of such should be erased from the legal system. If I understand you correctly, I would say I believe quite the opposite. One should take responsibility for their actions.

    Also, you may want to look into justifiable homicide.


    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide

    So I'll just reiterate this one more time. You, I, and we as a society can justify the taking of another persons life, but yet you cannot in any way be assed to justify the act of cheating on someone, even in the event of consistent physical and or mental abuse? That's mega screwed up man.
    Ah, so you are equating self preservation with betrayal. I don't follow...

    If you are in such a bad situation as you seem to be describing, cheating is one hell of a way to make it worse.


    Quote Originally Posted by kochoupink View Post


    That's an overdose of testosterone. Overdoses of anything have unpredictable effects. He's arguing that natural levels of testosterone control human decision-making enough to override basic survival instinct.
    Blanket statements get blanket responses toots.



    Quote Originally Posted by Dryzera View Post
    The government can't give you a "handout" if there's no place that you're living in to send a check. Or have you seen a person living under a bench lately waving around his EBT card? Plus, anecdotal evidence sucks.

    Apparently you aren't away of how far these handouts extend. I personally know two people who were given residence by the government. One was deserving, the other just a leach.
    Last edited by ChedWick; 15th September 2012 at 2:13 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Kutie Pie View Post
    About 97% of these women posing for pornographic pictures are held at gunpoint, and it can be anywhere. The majority of the time is by force.
    Lulz wat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryzera View Post
    The government can't give you a "handout" if there's no place that you're living in to send a check. Or have you seen a person living under a bench lately waving around his EBT card? Plus, anecdotal evidence sucks.
    Right no family anywhere will take you in till you get on your feet? If that's the case maybe he problem isn't the other person after all! If you're divorcing there is almost always someone you can turn to for some help. I like how real life is BS evidence.

    So true!

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    In our society cheating is VERY wrong. That is intentionally going behind your partner's back and engaging in some sort of activty with somebody else. I believe, however, a polygamous encounter is okay if you, your partner, and the third person are all cool wit it. I am not talking about a guy with two girlfriends. I'm talking about if a couple want to have a threesome. As long as everybody's open It's okay.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Akriloth View Post
    In our society cheating is VERY wrong. That is intentionally going behind your partner's back and engaging in some sort of activty with somebody else. I believe, however, a polygamous encounter is okay if you, your partner, and the third person are all cool wit it. I am not talking about a guy with two girlfriends. I'm talking about if a couple want to have a threesome. As long as everybody's open It's okay.
    It's rather hard to have a group encounter where all three parties aren't consenting. Having an open poly relationship, regardless of whether all parties are already single or not, is a whole different story altogether, though.


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    Cheating is terrible. When you marry someone, or even consider marrying them, you're making a promise, a commitment to THEM that you will love and cherish and be loyal to THEM. Allowing yourself to turn your affections elsewhere is breaking that promise, that commitment you have made. It makes anything you say a lie because you break all words and prmises you have made. Cutting those few threads holding you and another together may also cause them and yourself some very unnecessary pain.
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    I think the act of cheating itself, (which is as most people think of it,) is when a person engages in an activity without their partner knowing. I know most of us realize this distinction, however people try to identify swinging as cheating.

    I've been hearing more and more about swinging each day. It's always been a small part of any society. I agree that orgies and the like are a health problem, but when it's between all consenting adults there shouldn't be a problem. Now if one of those people had a partner that didn't know they were participating, or if they still said no, then that would be cheating. My fiance has a co-worker who is about to bet married. His fiance and him have an agreement. They could be with whoever they want just no getting STDs. If some relationships can withstand multiple partners more power to them.

    I also think that if a person knows they don't want to be monogamous then they should make it clear to their partners. That way at least the other person understands what they are getting into.

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    The golden rule is: treat others the way u want to be treated.
    If u don’t want your partner to cheat on u then…don’t cheat on your partner.
    Plain and simple.
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    My personal opinion on cheating is this: it's wrong no matter what the situation. I don't care if you got drunk. If you can't control your genitalia when you are inebriated then you might want to rethink drinking in the first place. To me that's the sign of someone who can't handle their alcohol. I don't care if you had a really bad fight. Grow up. Adults fight all the time, sleeping with someone else isn't going to make the fight go away or make you feel any better about the situation once it's all said and done.

    The problem I notice a lot with people who cheat or have cheated is their is a real lack of communication with their significant other and by the time they do end up cheating, they are already emotionally cut off from the other person. They never attempted to talk about whatever was going wrong in the relationship that led them to cheat. If you aren't mature enough to have an adult conversation with your SO about your relationship then maybe you shouldn't be in one. I don't think it's possible to truly love someone and cheat on them. That might be a really harsh thing to say but it's how I feel. I believe that when you truly do love someone, even the thought of doing something that might hurt them emotionally and/or physically makes you ill. For you to actually go out and do it tells me that either the love is gone or it was never there.

    People also need to be more honest about what they want. Some people aren't relationship people but don't want to admit it less it make them seem like a ****/manhoe. There is nothing wrong if you are a promiscuous person. You are human with human desires, but when you tell someone that they are the only person you want to be with or will be with, then you have to live up to that. If you find that you can't, then end it and save everyone the headache and time.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Arcamenel View Post
    My personal opinion on cheating is this: it's wrong no matter what the situation. I don't care if you got drunk. If you can't control your genitalia when you are inebriated then you might want to rethink drinking in the first place. To me that's the sign of someone who can't handle their alcohol. I don't care if you had a really bad fight. Grow up. Adults fight all the time, sleeping with someone else isn't going to make the fight go away or make you feel any better about the situation once it's all said and done.

    The problem I notice a lot with people who cheat or have cheated is their is a real lack of communication with their significant other and by the time they do end up cheating, they are already emotionally cut off from the other person. They never attempted to talk about whatever was going wrong in the relationship that led them to cheat. If you aren't mature enough to have an adult conversation with your SO about your relationship then maybe you shouldn't be in one. I don't think it's possible to truly love someone and cheat on them. That might be a really harsh thing to say but it's how I feel. I believe that when you truly do love someone, even the thought of doing something that might hurt them emotionally and/or physically makes you ill. For you to actually go out and do it tells me that either the love is gone or it was never there.

    People also need to be more honest about what they want. Some people aren't relationship people but don't want to admit it less it make them seem like a ****/manhoe. There is nothing wrong if you are a promiscuous person. You are human with human desires, but when you tell someone that they are the only person you want to be with or will be with, then you have to live up to that. If you find that you can't, then end it and save everyone the headache and time.
    at least i agree with someone here.
    you said it exactly.
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    I honestly do not see any reason for it, it hurts your actual partner more than you could understand. The only foreseeable reason would be your partner can't "saisfy" your needs??

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    Then you need to find a partner that does and then be faithful to that partner. You know I have the Opinion that it isn't the partner that isn't satisfying. If you're not happy you should look first at yourself and be honest. When my wife and I stopped blaming each other for what was wrong with "us" and looked at what we could do better, the relationship exploded into something wonderful!

    So true!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mandi. View Post
    I believe there was a debate on this before, but it's gone so I decided to make a fresh new one.

    I never really gave much thought on this topic before I got into a very loving relationship about a year ago. And thinking about the idea of cheating disgusts me and confuses me to no end.

    The question is
    WHY do people cheat when they're committed to loving that one special person they're with?

    Why do so many people think cheating is acceptable nowadays?


    I know many people aren't truly in love with their partner which I could probably understand why cheating would happen. But when you are TRULY in love with somebody, yet still manage to cheat and sleep with other men or woman? What is going through your head?

    I think my view is already clear but I can't say enough about how wrong I feel cheating is.
    My views on love and sex have became so strict ever since I've been with my guy. I would never even think of being with another man. Even if there's a bunch of guys who are considered attractive wanting to be with me, I'd never cause my boyfriend pain. Besides, being with this guy, I just don't find anybody else attractive. I just don't see it.

    Nowadays it seems like everyone will just get with any random person they find hot. And it just doesn't seem right at all.

    How can you possibly not think of the pain you're causing your partner when you cheat? I believe if you're going to want to sleep with every hot person you meet, then you should break off your relationship, because cheating isn't worth the pain.

    To end my post, I'll ask the main question.
    What are you views on cheating?
    What's generally referred to as love is actually three different things; infatuation, love and lust. Infatuation is makes you like someone very much, you want to spend almost all the time with the other and you become generally unaware and don't see faults. Infatuation can only last up to 18 months (it's like addictions, the brain becomes used to the hormone level). Love is what makes you able to live together, I don't know a lot of information about this, but it's supposedly the same for a family member as for a partner. Lust is sexual arousal and describing that detailed probably isn't necessary.
    Those three parts of love are all distinct and doesn't have to be for the same person. So even if you feel love for your spouse, that does not mean that you also feel lust.

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    Humans are fickle. When they are bored they want excitement, sometimes an affair reawakens emotions and feelings they haven't experienced in years with their current partner. Despite their better judgement, sometimes that lust for something fresh and new manages to consume their actions.

    Though, don't mistake my reason for an excuse. I think that cheating is a horrible, selfish, greedy thing to do to someone whom you truly love. Of course that does not apply across the board to people whom are not in love, however it is still a bit of a jerk move.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Richarizard View Post
    Though, don't mistake my reason for an excuse. I think that cheating is a horrible, selfish, greedy thing to do to someone whom you truly love. Of course that does not apply across the board to people whom are not in love, however it is still a bit of a jerk move.
    I'd say what makes cheating bad is less about love and more about being in a committed relationship. Being in that kind of relationship means you're committed to being with that one person, after all. Betraying that trust is an awful thing to do, whether or not you love that person (though it becomes far more personal if you do).

    After all, marriages weren't always about being with the person you loved (though one often learned to love one's spouse). But the fact of the matter is that if you're in a committed relationship with a person, turning around and cheating is wrong.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psychic View Post
    I'd say what makes cheating bad is less about love and more about being in a committed relationship. Being in that kind of relationship means you're committed to being with that one person, after all. Betraying that trust is an awful thing to do, whether or not you love that person (though it becomes far more personal if you do).

    After all, marriages weren't always about being with the person you loved (though one often learned to love one's spouse). But the fact of the matter is that if you're in a committed relationship with a person, turning around and cheating is wrong.

    ~Psychic
    Very true - but at what point would you deem a relationship committed? And what if one person is more so than the other, does that constitute as a committed relationship?

    There's also the consideration of people feeling trapped in a relationship. If the emotions aren't mutual between both people, but one feels too pressured to be able to call it off - they may end up cheating. But who would be in the wrong here? The person who cheated, or the one making the other feel like they cannot leave?
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    Depends on what kind of force the partner is applying I suppose.

    But I can't imagine a scenario where cheating is the best solution. Understanding emotions aside and depending on the coercing, cheating would make someone who used coercion even more angry and hurt. If you are physically forced or abuse to stay in a relationship, just tell somebody. Don't drag another person into the drama.
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