Cheating on your partner.. is it as wrong as people make it out to be

[iFi Salamander]

Except we're talking about men with normal testosterone levels...

You aren't thinking.

Raised testosterone levels amplify the need for dominance. Therefore more testosterone more dominance, dominance leads to the need to feel like the stronger human being. This in turn builds the rigid social guidelines you mentioned. Therefore the need to appeal to these rules=to the level of testosterone times x. X being the correlation. By having more testosterone you are more insecure about coming out of your shell because of your pride.

Women have far less testosterone than women so will then more openly defy the social guidlines.

Of course for women they barely exist to begin with because they lack the testosterone to bring them forth in the first place.

[ChedWick]

What fantasy world are you living in? Homeless shelters aren't exactly as common as fastfood joints that you see coming across every exit on the freeway. Even if you do have access to one, the time you're allowed to stay there is very limited, because there are other people seeking refuge. Homeless shelters can't take in everyone.

You may not want to accept it, but there is a such thing as just being completely and thoroughly fucked.



I take it you also think things like crimes of passion and the like should be completely erased from the legal system then.

I live in the real world thank you very much.

Do please define crimes of passion because that's a very vague way of putting at few things that come to mind.

Takes one to know one, "almost-genius."
And I wasn't denying it. You are ignoring what else I said. Estrogen and testosterone do create visible biological differences. What they do not do is dictate personality traits or individual actions.

Roid rage would like a word with you.

[arceus7]

Cheating occurs for 3 no 4 reasons

Lack of communication ( this leads to a break down in the emotions between people and they either loose their passion or the feeling of love ect whatever)
A partner feeling incompetent ( This one right here is why alot of sane men in their 30-50s cheat, they find someone who they feel like they can take care of)
Your not in a real relationship and your being manipulated. ( This is a loveless relationship and your a blooming idiot)

The other reason is your a horny ermine who has no control over his or her emotions , these are the most dangerous of humans as they will do anything in the name of their emotions. After all the horrible things people do spawn from how they feel one way or another.

Here's an example say your a guy, and your sex drive is insane and you let yourself go in your head and you constantly need sex or think about it. Like an addiction and you cant think normally without having it, and your wife is ... unwilling to give it up, this is the result of not being able to reign in your emotions before these feelings became an addiction and a lack of communication on one level.

[Dryzera]

I live in the real world thank you very much.

Act like it.

Do please define crimes of passion because that's a very vague way of putting at few things that come to mind.

To wikipedia!

A crime of passion, or crime passionnel, in popular usage, refers to a crime in which the perpetrator commits a crime, especially assault, murder or rape, against someone because of sudden strong impulse such as sudden rage or heartbreak rather than as a premeditated crime.

Also, you may want to look into justifiable homicide.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justifiable_homicide

So I'll just reiterate this one more time. You, I, and we as a society can justify the taking of another persons life, but yet you cannot in any way be assed to justify the act of cheating on someone, even in the event of consistent physical and or mental abuse? That's mega screwed up man.

[bel9]

His source is the same pseudoscientific evo-psych bs that the internet loves to use to tell women to get back in the kitchen.

Anyone want to play some bingo?

[Pesky Persian]

You aren't thinking.

Raised testosterone levels amplify the need for dominance. Therefore more testosterone more dominance, dominance leads to the need to feel like the stronger human being. This in turn builds the rigid social guidelines you mentioned. Therefore the need to appeal to these rules=to the level of testosterone times x. X being the correlation. By having more testosterone you are more insecure about coming out of your shell because of your pride.

Women have far less testosterone than women so will then more openly defy the social guidlines.

Of course for women they barely exist to begin with because they lack the testosterone to bring them forth in the first place.

You're not seeing the bigger picture. Humans are not slaves to hormones. Desire for dominance is not a sex-specific trait. Personalities are not 100% genetic. The nature vs. nurture argument is outdated. Nature and nurture both play a role in human psychological development.

If men are more dominant because of testosterone, how do you explain women with normal hormones and dominant personalities? What about men who are more submissive? What about past and present matriarchal societies? Hunter-gatherer groups were largely matriarchal. It wasn't until humans settled down to farm that patriarchy became the global norm. Society plays a huge part in gender stereotypes. Girls are taught from a ypung age that it's okay to be the victim. Boys are taught that men are always the hero.

[iFi Salamander]

You're not seeing the bigger picture. Humans are not slaves to hormones. Desire for dominance is not a sex-specific trait. Personalities are not 100% genetic. The nature vs. nurture argument is outdated. Nature and nurture both play a role in human psychological development.

If men are more dominant because of testosterone, how do you explain women with normal hormones and dominant personalities? What about men who are more submissive? What about past and present matriarchal societies? Hunter-gatherer groups were largely matriarchal. It wasn't until humans settled down to farm that patriarchy became the global norm. Society plays a huge part in gender stereotypes. Girls are taught from a ypung age that it's okay to be the victim. Boys are taught that men are always the hero.

I was merely defining the statistics, not explaining that every single man is that way.

[Pesky Persian]

I was merely defining the statistics, not explaining that every single man is that way.

I'd wager the statistics are more societal too. Testosterone doesn't tell men it's acceptable to treat women like shit. Culture and how they're raised does. It's why feminism is such a big thing (I'm not talking about man-hating feminists, by the way because I know there are people here who shout "Feminazi!" every time someone brings up the dreaded f-word and I'm not talking about the four-letter one...).

Edit: I'm not saying all men treat women poorly. And I'm not saying only men treat people in general poorly. There are women out there who aren't very good human beings either. I'm just saying that as far as crimes and attitudes against women go, it's largely how men are raised and not due to testosterone.

[iFi Salamander]

I'd wager the statistics are more societal too. Testosterone doesn't tell men it's acceptable to treat women like shit. Culture and how they're raised does. It's why feminism is such a big thing (I'm not talking about man-hating feminists, by the way because I know there are people here who shout "Feminazi!" every time someone brings up the dreaded f-word and I'm not talking about the four-letter one...).

Edit: I'm not saying all men treat women poorly. And I'm not saying only men treat people in general poorly. There are women out there who aren't very good human beings either. I'm just saying that as far as crimes and attitudes against women go, it's largely how men are raised and not due to testosterone.

You are drifting away from the premise. I am not saying society isn't part to blame but it sounds like this is a world issue that upsets you an you are going all feminist.

I am just saying this in the same way I'd say Africian American's have higher crime rate. It is just the way it is.

[Pesky Persian]

You are drifting away from the premise. I am not saying society isn't part to blame but it sounds like this is a world issue that upsets you an you are going all feminist.

I am just saying this in the same way I'd say Africian American's have higher crime rate. It is just the way it is.

Wait...

You used genetic arguments to explain why fewer men admit to being abused... And then you bring up African American crime rates? Please tell me you're not going to pull some poorly understood genetic argument for that one too.

[iFi Salamander]

Wait...

You used genetic arguments to explain why fewer men admit to being abused... And then you bring up African American crime rates? Please tell me you're not going to pull some poorly understood genetic argument for that one too.

No, I am using an anecdote to get you to comprehend my point.

[Pesky Persian]

No, I am using an anecdote to get you to comprehend my point.

You're not making a very good point. You just flip-flopped your argument. First, you tried to use the genetic argument, then you conceded that society plays a role.

Have you ever considered a career in politics?

[iFi Salamander]

You're not making a very good point. You just flip-flopped your argument. First, you tried to use the genetic argument, then you conceded that society plays a role.

Have you ever considered a career in politics?

Testosterone is the reason those rigid guidelines in society got that way, and I even used an equation to show how. I was simply saying it was a chain of reasons. I don't think you really got it though...

That would require boring law school.

[Pesky Persian]

Testosterone is the reason those rigid guidelines in society got that way, and I even used an equation to show how. I was simply saying it was a chain of reasons. I don't think you really got it though...

That would require boring law school.

You haven't given any evidence to support that, other than one article that says nothing about hormones relating to societal norms. Kochou even gave an interesting research article that refuted stereotypes about elevated testosterone levels. I get where you're attempting to come from, but your evidence to support it is poor (and considering the article talked about elevated testosterone levels [which is not the same as normal, baseline levels] your evidence is circumstantial at best).

[iFi Salamander]

You haven't given any evidence to support that, other than one article that says nothing about hormones relating to societal norms. Kochou even gave an interesting research article that refuted stereotypes about elevated testosterone levels. I get where you're attempting to come from, but your evidence to support it is poor (and considering the article talked about elevated testosterone levels [which is not the same as normal, baseline levels] your evidence is circumstantial at best).

It is funny how once I have proven my point you drop to denying my empirical evidence as a last desperate chance for me not to be right.

I could find you hundreds of articles to prove my same point, the reality is I did the homework, and you'll just keep denying them so why even bother continuing this debate?

[Pesky Persian]

It is funny how once I have proven my point you drop to denying my empirical evidence as a last desperate chance for me not to be right.

I could find you hundreds of articles to prove my same point, the reality is I did the homework, and you'll just keep denying them so why even bother continuing this debate?

You actually haven't proven anything. Even biological theories on patriarchy have nothing to do with hormones directly and everything to do with men having to be more competitive against each other to gain women. Batman's principle is a good example of this biological theory. The vast majority of sociologists reject the idea of patriarchy being a result of genetics. Male dominance is widely seen as a social norm that has been passed down over the years through culture. The reason for patriarchy is still up for debate, but the point is that hormones have little or nothing to do with the way men are raised to behave in modern society.

[iFi Salamander]

You actually haven't proven anything. Even biological theories on patriarchy have nothing to do with hormones directly and everything to do with men having to be more competitive against each other to gain women. Batman's principle is a good example of this biological theory. The vast majority of sociologists reject the idea of patriarchy being a result of genetics. Male dominance is widely seen as a social norm that has been passed down over the years through culture. The reason for patriarchy is still up for debate, but the point is that hormones have little or nothing to do with the way men are raised to behave in modern society.

You can not seriously tell me that when you stick two male dogs and a female dog together, their competition for a mate has nothing to do with hormones, namely testosterone. I am not talking about patriarchy, I am telling you why men compete with each other, and how this built the rigid social expectancies.

Men by nature are hard-wired to be hunters and primary supporters. Yes society makes a male feel more socially uncomfortable about coming out about an abusive relationship. I am explaining how we got to that point.

Also I can't remember the last time I have heard any man of dignity say they took a beating from a girl. Even rarer is a male who claims to have gotten raped. Hell most guys can't say no under that level of coercing.

[Pesky Persian]

You can not seriously tell me that when you stick two male dogs and a female dog together, their competition for a mate has nothing to do with hormones, namely testosterone. I am not talking about patriarchy, I am telling you why men compete with each other, and how this built the rigid social expectancies.

Men by nature are hard-wired to be hunters and primary supporters. Yes society makes a male feel more socially uncomfortable about coming out about an abusive relationship. I am explaining how we got to that point.

Also I can't remember the last time I have heard any man of dignity say they took a beating from a girl. Even rarer is a male who claims to have gotten raped. Hell most guys can't say no under that level of coercing.

Actually, the dogs would likely only fight over the female if she's in heat, meaning she'd be releasing pheromones that cause a behavior response in the males by stimulating the increase of sex hormones. Under normal conditions, male dogs aren't more likely to fight (in fact, speaking specifically of dogs, females are typically more aggressive towards other females than males are to males under normal conditions). The pheromone argument doesn't hold up in humans because vomeronasal organ (used to detect pheromone chemoreceptors to send to the brain) is considered nonfunctional in humans. We don't have the genetic code to make it work, basically.

Hormones have little to do with cultural behavior in modern humans. Society has a much bigger influence.

[kochoupink]

Anyone want to play some bingo?

This is my favorite you are my favorite thank you.
iFi Salamander, did you actually read the scientific papers I sent you on how testosterone affecting personality and decisions was in fact a myth?

Roid rage would like a word with you.

That's an overdose of testosterone. Overdoses of anything have unpredictable effects. He's arguing that natural levels of testosterone control human decision-making enough to override basic survival instinct.

[Profesco]

Anyone want to play some bingo?

As an unlaid male undergrad studying evolution and psychology, it is very difficult for me to find this funny or clever (but not impossible). Another name for the field: anthropological psychology. The study of the human species and its development throughout its historic lifespan. Our bodies have evolved, I'm sure we can all agree. I sincerely do not understand the immediate ridicule that occurs when it is further posed that our brains are parts of our bodies and therefore have also evolved. If it were limited to opposition to the bad science (of which there is, in the jargon, a "crapton," and to a good example of which we are currently being treated) that would be one thing, but people just seem to have this automatic aversive reaction to the idea of the human brain with an evolutionary past. Of course that is not reducible to just genes, or just environments, or even just cultures, but our brains were and are most certainly built by, affected by, and contributors to all of those forces.



Yes I just came here to whine and pontificate. It's a modern implementation of a natural reaction to what I perceived as a threat to my social status, so it's okay.