Pedophilia

[Iceberg]

Pedophilia:

sexual desire in an adult for a child.

It is very important to note that sexual relations with a pre-pubescent child and a teenager are two very different things. Statutory rape would be an adult having sex with a teenager. The laws around this differ by state/province/country (for instance, in Canada an 18-year-old having sex with a 16-year-old would not be statutory rape). Pedophilia involves pre-pubescent children. It is very important that you acknowledge that this topic is not about statutory rape.

A recent article by "The Conservative Papers" highlights a group of people who believe legalizing homosexual marriage will lead to legalizing pedophilia:

In a related commentary on WND, Reisman said, “The APA path to pedophile norms follows the success of the homosexual anarchy campaign. Arguably, the pedophile media lobby directed the passionate boy-boy kisses on the TV series ‘Glee,’ to enable fellow ‘minor-attracted persons’ to increasingly be seen as a boy’s sex ‘friend.’

It is hinted throughout the entire article that homosexuality being legalized has opened the gate way for pedophilia. As well, the article also says that according to some, pedophilia should be legalized because it is just another sexual orientation:

Barber said the symposium themes became clear quickly:

Pedophiles are unfairly “demonized” in society.

The concept of “wrong” should not be applied to “minor-attracted persons.”

“Children are not inherently unable to consent” to sex with an adult.

“An adult’s desire to have sex with children is ‘normative.’”

The article goes on further to connect the normalizing of pedophilia to the Islamic community, saying:

we have a now growing Islamic community, where pedophilia is widely accepted.....practice of pedophilia, it has been widely acceptable behavior in the Islamic world.

How does this make you feel? Do you believe pedophilia is just another sexual orientation? Do you think it is at all comparable to homosexuality? Do you think it is fair to compare pedophilia to homosexuality? Do you agree with the connection between Islam and pedophilia? Do you think pedophilia should be legalized? Do you have any other thoughts on pedophilia, such as punishment/prevention ideas?

Here are my thoughts:

Firstly, I do not believe pedophilia is just another sexual orientation. This is for a simple reason, in a hetero/homosexual relationship both parties are consensual and fully understand what they are getting into. In a pedophilic relationship only one party is consensual and knows what they are getting into.

According to the American Psychological Association (APA) children who were victims of child abuse:

exhibit behavior problems ranging from separation anxiety to posttraumatic stress disorder.

(Full article here)

According to this source, victims of child molestation experience problems from eating disorders, panic attacks, relationship/trust issues, chronic nightmares/flash-backs, and many more problems.

It really is evident that pedophilia has a stark negative impact on the child. Not only does it cause them problems for life, it also takes away the child's innocence. There is a reason parents wait until a certain age to talk to their kids about sex; children just aren't fit to be exposed to it.

Many professionals agree that even the presence of sex in the media is bad enough for kids, let alone sex in the flesh involving a child. This paper by UCLA (University of California, Los Angeles) highlights the negative effects of sex on children.

I must agree with the connection of Islam and pedophilia. Mohammed, the Islamic prophet himself married a 6 year old girl (Aisha) and consummated that marriage when Aisha was 9:

Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.]Narrated Aisha: The prophet engaged me when I was a girl of six. We went to Medina and stayed at the home of Harith Kharzraj. Then I got ill and my hair fell down. Later on my hair grew (again) and my mother, Um Ruman, came to me while I was playing in a swing with some of my girl friends. She called me, and I went to her, not knowing what she wanted to do to me. She caught me by the hand and made me stand at the door of the house. I was breathless then, and when my breathing became all right, she took some water and rubbed my face and head with it. Then she took me into the house. There in the house I saw some Ansari women who said, "Best wishes and Allah's blessing and a good luck." Then she entrusted me to them and they prepared me (for the marriage). Unexpectedly Allah's messenger came to me in the forenoon and my mother handed me over to him, and at that time I was a girl of nine years of age.

Here is a very well written and supported article of the relation of Islam and pedophilia.

http://answering-islam.org/Silas/childbrides.htm#s1

However, I do not believe Islam is the only, or even main cause of pedophilia in Western society. Many pedophiles exist outside of it. Such as this instance of reportedly 200 Catholic priests being involved in sexual abuse scandals in California alone.

In conclusion, pedophilia is not comparable to homosexuality or any other sexual orientation because in a pedophilic relationship both parties are not consensual or aware of what they are doing. Pedophilia has vast and terrible effects on the children subjected to it. There are many causes for pedophilia, including cultural and genetic factors. Above all else, pedophilia should not be legalized because it truly is a terrible thing.

What are your thoughts?

[Malanu]

Lets see, Alcohol is legal and pot is on the verge. Pot smokers have used the status of alcohol to gain respectability. It is a stretch no doubt, but strange things happen when you are totally sure something won't happen.

[ChedWick]

Correct, pedophilia is not equivalent to homosexuality or any other orientation because it pits a mature person against another younger person who is not yet mature or prepared enough for such a relationship. I will however point out that in more recent years, we seem to coddle our young in an attempt to protect them. In time past, 16 or even 14 (id have to do some research) was an ideal age of marriage and procreation. But in our modern world, those at such a young age, are prey to those with desire not yet suited to their targets.

[BigLutz]

Correct, pedophilia is not equivalent to homosexuality or any other orientation because it pits a mature person against another younger person who is not yet mature or prepared enough for such a relationship.

I actually have to disagree, if we break down sex to it's most primal level, reproduction, it is entirely equivalent to homosexuality and other orientations. Homosexuality, Beastiality, Pedophilia, all do not lead to reproduction, the person is sexually attractive to some one or some thing that is unable to physically reproduce.

I mean we can all go round and round about what is adult, and what is consent, but at the end of the day it all comes down to our basic primal urges, and for those one or two percent outside the whole that are wired in a different way sexually.

[PikaPika677]

This is one of my rare posts in Debate and I'm probably going to get shot down real quick but bear with me.

Allowing homosexuality isn't the same as allowing pedophilia. They're two different things. Whether or not gay marriage is legalized or not doesn't make pedophilia any more ethical.

I think I did that right.

[SugarFreeJazz]

However, I do not believe Islam is the only, or even main cause of pedophilia in Western society. Many pedophiles exist outside of it.

And you could even say (and you would if you had even the smallest of frontal lobes in your brain), that Islam is not in any way, shape, or form, a cause of pedophilia in western society. Society even! Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder, not a sexual or religious orientation.

[Soiherdyouliekme]

I actually have to disagree, if we break down sex to it's most primal level, reproduction, it is entirely equivalent to homosexuality and other orientations. Homosexuality, Beastiality, Pedophilia, all do not lead to reproduction, the person is sexually attractive to some one or some thing that is unable to physically reproduce.

I mean we can all go round and round about what is adult, and what is consent, but at the end of the day it all comes down to our basic primal urges, and for those one or two percent outside the whole that are wired in a different way sexually.

Where does having sex with an infertile person fit into this?

[BigLutz]

Where does having sex with an infertile person fit into this?

Infertility is not a physical trait that one can easily see or smell so I don't think it would fit in at all.

[Eterna]

Pedophilia is a completely natural sexual orientation. It should in no way be legalized however due to a minor being unable to give consent. I for one think it's wrong to vilify people with this orientation, they cannot help how they are born, I think a pedophile who refuses to give into his urges and leads a normal life should be treated with the same volume of respect and compassion any other human being would normally receive.

And you could even say (and you would if you had even the smallest of frontal lobes in your brain), that Islam is not in any way, shape, or form, a cause of pedophilia in western society. Society even! Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder, not a sexual or religious orientation.

Do you have any proof at all that it's a disorder? I'll need citation.

[CSolarstorm]

[U]Pedophilia is a completely natural sexual orientation. [...] Do you have any proof at all that it's a disorder? I'll need citation.

Let's get this settled right now. Wikipedia:

"As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children"

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[6] According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), it is a paraphilia in which a person has intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children and on which feelings they have either acted or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty.[1]"

To make it clear again:
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines pedophilia as a disorder.
The International Classification of Diseases defines pedophilia as a disease.

To make my stance clear: Based on the bolded point, there's no problem if no distress or difficulty is happening. If they are not acting on their urges, then there's no possibility of trauma, and if they are not bothered by their own fantasies, they don't have a problem, so I don't see that as a disorder or a disease. A happy non-active pedophile is someone I have no trouble respecting.

[Eterna]

Let's get this settled right now. Wikipedia:

"As a medical diagnosis, pedophilia, or paedophilia, is defined as a psychiatric disorder in persons who are 16 years of age or older typically characterized by a primary or exclusive sexual interest in prepubescent children"

"The International Classification of Diseases (ICD) defines pedophilia as a "disorder of adult personality and behaviour" in which there is a sexual preference for children of prepubertal or early pubertal age.[6] According to the Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders (DSM), it is a paraphilia in which a person has intense and recurrent sexual urges towards and fantasies about prepubescent children and on which feelings they have either acted or which cause distress or interpersonal difficulty.[1]"

To make it clear again:
The Diagnostic and Statistical Manual of Mental Disorders defines pedophilia as a disorder.
The International Classification of Diseases defines pedophilia as a disease.

To make my stance clear: Based on the bolded point, there's no problem if no distress or difficulty is happening. If they are not acting on their urges, then there's no possibility of trauma, and if they are not bothered by their own fantasies, they don't have a problem, so I don't see that as a disorder or a disease. A happy non-active pedophile is someone I have no trouble respecting.

Regardless of it not being a orientation, it's still naturally occurring in people so my point still stands.

[CSolarstorm]

Regardless of it not being a orientation, it's still naturally occurring in people so my point still stands.

Actually, natural occurances are a crummy way of determining good and bad. For example, peanut butter is good and hurricanes are bad. It's better to judge merit by what harms us and what doesn't. But it doesn't matter: I agree with you that pedophiles deserve the same respect as long as they don't act on ther urges.

I mean we can all go round and round about what is adult, and what is consent, but at the end of the day it all comes down to our basic primal urges, and for those one or two percent outside the whole that are wired in a different way sexually.

Not all of us believe that our 'primal urges' are a better framing device than 'ideal adult behavior'.

[marioguy]

Pedophilia is a completely natural sexual orientation. It should in no way be legalized however due to a minor being unable to give consent. I for one think it's wrong to vilify people with this orientation, they cannot help how they are born, I think a pedophile who refuses to give into his urges and leads a normal life should be treated with the same volume of respect and compassion any other human being would normally receive.

I agree with you completely. Homosexuality was once also considered a mental disorder. I think, correct me if I'm mistaken on this, it's no longer considered a mental disorder because people realized that being attracted to someone of the same gender doesn't hurt anyone. Same thing with pedophilia, as long as it stays as just attraction.

Having sex with a child is one of the worst crimes in my opinion. Children cannot consent, so it's rape no matter what. I really hate when people confused pedophile with child molester, because it's the same as confusing person with rapist. This common confusion demonizes pedophiles. I believe that there are many more pedophiles out there that what people may believe. It's like bisexuality. They can keep their attraction a secret, because they also are attracted to something considered "socially normal."

[CSolarstorm]

I agree with you completely. Homosexuality was once also considered a mental disorder. I think, correct me if I'm mistaken on this, it's no longer considered a mental disorder because people realized that being attracted to someone of the same gender doesn't hurt anyone. Same thing with pedophilia, as long as it stays as just attraction.

Not necessarily. They removed homosexuality because neither the desire nor act hurts anyone. But with pedophilia, psychologists are understandably concerned with making sure pedophiles don't act on their desires, so they urge them to get professional help with managing their desires. It would stand to reason that if homosexual acts were any more dangerous than something that could be taken care of with a simple health lesson, the APA would have justifiably kept homosexuality a disorder too so they could urge homosexuals to get assistance with managing their desires to prevent problems. And I would be totally okay with that. But they don't, so I'm not, because obviously homosexual acts don't carry any confirmed, solid consequences that are comparable to child molestation.

Get what I'm saying?

[Eterna]

Actually, natural occurances are a crummy way of determining good and bad. For example, peanut butter is good and hurricanes are bad. It's better to judge merit by what harms us and what doesn't. But it doesn't matter: I agree with you that pedophiles deserve the same respect as long as they don't act on ther urges.

I never said or implied pedophilia was good or bad, I simply meant it was a natural occurrence.

[marioguy]

I wonder if Christian conservatives believe that pedophilia is more natural than homosexuality because it's between one man and one (soon to be) woman.

[Kaiserin]

I wonder if Christian conservatives believe that pedophilia is more natural than homosexuality because it's between one man and one (soon to be) woman.

Maybe you should ask certain Catholic priests about that one.

...Although I guess the popular accusation is that they molest little boys as opposed to little girls. But hey.

I'd also like to point out that, in the DSM definition SunnyC provided, they use the words "primary or exclusive sexual interest" in prepubescent children. Not someone who may or may not have a mild fetish of some kind, but someone who gets off first and foremost to sexualizing kids. One could say "it's fine as long as it stays a fantasy" or something like that, but when you consider a lot of rapists (of the non-statutory kind) and murderers often have their individual issues festering in their minds for a long time before they act on them... I'm really not sure that's such a good thing to leave unchecked. Even if it supposedly starts out as the aforementioned mild fetish, because, again, a lot of rapists and murderers have mild screws loose that just get worse over time. Torturing small animals or housepets to varying degrees, for example.

[marioguy]

I'd also like to point out that, in the DSM definition SunnyC provided, they use the words "primary or exclusive sexual interest" in prepubescent children. Not someone who may or may not have a mild fetish of some kind, but someone who gets off first and foremost to sexualizing kids. One could say "it's fine as long as it stays a fantasy" or something like that, but when you consider a lot of rapists (of the non-statutory kind) and murderers often have their individual issues festering in their minds for a long time before they act on them... I'm really not sure that's such a good thing to leave unchecked. Even if it supposedly starts out as the aforementioned mild fetish, because, again, a lot of rapists and murderers have mild screws loose that just get worse over time. Torturing small animals or housepets to varying degrees, for example.

So you're saying we should keep tabs on all pedophiles so they don't turn into child molesters? Should we also keep tabs on all men to make sure that they don't become rapists? How about we keep tabs on everybody, just to make sure no one is planning to kill someone else?

There is a pretty interesting debate on ZU about simulated child pornography .

[Grim Heaper]

...so what if an 18 year old is dating a 16/17 year old, is that pedophilia?

[CSolarstorm]

...so what if an 18 year old is dating a 16/17 year old, is that pedophilia?

Nope. That's not anything. If they have sex, that's statutory rape. Plus pedophilia is about kids, not teenagers.

[Snorunt conservationist]

Do you have any proof at all that it's a disorder? I'll need citation.

It involves ****ing children. How's that for a citation?

SugarFreeJazz makes a good point. Many paedophiles have my sympathy. I doubt many of them want to have their urges, and many probably do their best to stop them.

[marioguy]

It involves ****ing children.

No it doesn't. It's about being attracted to children.

[Snorunt conservationist]

No it doesn't. It's about being attracted to children.

So no paedophile has ever ****ed a child?

[BigLutz]

Not all of us believe that our 'primal urges' are a better framing device than 'ideal adult behavior'.

Oh I completely agree, if it was we would go around raping people. I was just pointing out how biologically the two are linked.

That being said, I don't see Pedophilia becoming legalized no matter how far Homosexual rights go. The only way I see it happening is if we had a massive event that wiped out the vast majority of humanity and we needed to repopulate as fast as we could, which ironically we would have to ban homosexual activity then to keep the gene pool strong.

But honestly outside of a massive zombie invasion, or a meteor wiping out most of the population, it isn't going to happen outside maybe one or two radical judges. That being said, I would say that Pedophilia in terms of art will probably become legalized in some form or fashion from drawn art to old movies with nude children to allow that portion of the population some kind of sexual release.

[Akriloth]

Correct, pedophilia is not equivalent to homosexuality or any other orientation because it pits a mature person against another younger person who is not yet mature or prepared enough for such a relationship. I will however point out that in more recent years, we seem to coddle our young in an attempt to protect them. In time past, 16 or even 14 (id have to do some research) was an ideal age of marriage and procreation. But in our modern world, those at such a young age, are prey to those with desire not yet suited to their targets.

This. 100% this. You took the words right out of my mouth.

And despite the fact that in the past it was normal to see 16 and 14 year old girls marrying 25 year old men in today's society that is not the norm and can harm the kid, who has not matured as much as the adult in the relationship.