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Thread: Improvement for the hopeless.

  1. #1
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    Default Improvement for the hopeless.

    Attachment 5939I made my first Gen V competitive team the other day. Predictably, it failed. Hard. To be fully honest, I'm not even sure it's salvageable, but I'd like your opinion on it, too.



    Team building

    The first member of my team was an obvious choice, and one of the few 'mons I've had my eye on since Gen V was released.


    I thought for a while about what set to use, and I eventually settled on an anti-lead Chandelure setup. For the next piece of my team, I couldn't decide between TechniLoom and Scizor. In the end, I decided Spore's crippling ability gave Loom the edge.

    Now, I needed a special wall. Time to break out an old friend...


    That's right. Regice not only serves as an exceptional special wall, but he also kills every dragon in existance, except maybe Garchomp. Of course, a physical would be nice too, no? I was thinking Skarmory, but I don't want to let Volcarona and Heatran walk all over my team, so...

    Of course, both my walls die to Infernape and nearly everything else Fighting typed. What to do about that...

    Hypnosis abuse, anyone?
    So, now I take a look at what my team is weak to...
    Scizor immediately comes to mind, along with Heatran. I need a steel killer, and maybe a new wall.

    Skarmory patches the gap in my team nicely. Unfortunately, half my team is now weak to fire types, so I need something that will overwhelm any fire type, and isn't weak to Ghost types. That puts out Starmie...

    This is the one I'm not too sure about. Sure, with a Focus Sash he gets the jump on Infernape most of the time, and Volcarona screams and runs at the sight of him, but Heatran still gives me trouble and Scizor is a nightmare, and he's generally a frail 'Mon.

    Terrakion trumps Kabutops in every possible way. I'm also considering a couple more switches, on par with advice I've received thusfar.


    Now, to the team.




    Chandelure @ Choice Scarf
    Timid/Flash Fire
    252 Sp. Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
    -Fire Blast
    -Shadow Ball
    -Energy Ball
    -Psychic/Hidden Power (Fighting)/Hidden Power (Ground)

    Ah, Anti-Lead Chandelure. With his 80 base Speed, he's not something you'd ever expect to be fast, but he outspeeds a lot with his scarf. Fire Blast hits hard, Shadow Ball and Energy Ball are coverage, and the last move is filler. He likes to kill anything that tries to set up on him, but a speedy lead with a decent advantage (Like Starmie, for instance) slaughters him.


    Breloom @ Life Orb
    Jolly
    252 Spd, 252 Atk, 6 HP
    -Spore
    -Mach Punch
    -Bullet Seed
    -Sword's Dance

    Do I really need to say anything? TechniLoom with Spore and Sword's Dance. Spore the enemy, Sword's Dance once (or twice, if I'm feeling cocky), Mach Punch/Seed the hell out of everything.



    Latias @ Leftovers
    Timid / Levitate
    252 HP, 252 Spd, 6 Sp. Atk
    -Recover
    -Calm Mind
    -Dragon Pulse
    -Hidden Power (Fire)

    Calm Mind sweeper Latias. Recover for healing/stall, Calm Mind for that nice special boost, Dragon Pulse gets STAB, and HP Fire is there I suppose for coverage. Suggested by Messudupotatoasia.



    Skarmory @ Leftovers
    Impish / Sturdy
    252 HP, 252 Def, 4 Sp. Def
    -Stealth Rock
    -Whirlwind
    -Roost
    -Brave Bird

    Literally ripped it from Smogon. Phaser Skarmory, with Roost to heal, and Brave Bird I guess as an offensive option.


    Gardevoir @ ??? (Ideas? Focus Sash maybe?)
    Modest / Synchronize?
    252 Sp. Atk, 252 HP, 4 Spd (Thinking about going 252 Sp. Atk, 252 Sp. Def)
    -Hypnosis
    -Dream Eater
    -Calm Mind
    -Focus Blast

    Puts it to sleep, kills it. Calm Mind is I suppose for an extra boost, although I'm open to a different option here. Focus Blast sends those pesky Dark types running. Not sure about the EV spread.

    Terrakion @ Choice Band
    Jolly / Justified
    252 Atk, 252 Spd, 6 HP
    -Close Combat
    -Stone Edge
    -Earthquake
    -X-Scissor

    Typical Choice Band Terrakion. Earthquake takes out Infernape and Heatran, Close Combat and Stone Edge are crazy powerful STABs, and X-Scissor is filler.


    So... My strong points...

    Well, TechniLoom performs exceptionally, and Chandelure and Gardevoir do quite nicely as well.

    Weak points...


    Regice is good in theory, but Heatran, Volcarona, and Scizor run too rampantly to make him effective in practice.



    EDIT: Fixed a couple mistakes.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 4th September 2012 at 3:49 AM.


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  2. #2
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    Thinking about switching Gardevoir for Sigilyph and Kabutops for Terrakion.


    You can shoot my body full of holes but ya can't kill the spirit of Rock N' Roll, baby! \m/

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevensevens View Post
    Thinking about switching Gardevoir for Sigilyph and Kabutops for Terrakion.
    Use reuniculus and terrakion and switch regice with blissey or chansey or if you want a check for dragons then try empoleon maybe it is UU but have a unique typing.


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    The synergy seems pretty good, so that can't be the problem of the failing.

    As for Regice, I recommend an a bit more offensive set:
        Spoiler:- Sky's Regice:


    Kabutops is way too frail for OU. A pokemon that can deal with Heatran and Infernape is of course pretty hard, since, especiallly Infernape is hard to counter. Terrakion, as you said yourself, will be perfect, as it retains good synergy due to semi-similar typing.

    Gardevoir is a defensive Psy-type, but Hypnosis + Dream Eater simply won't work, cuz' people usually switch out the sleeping pokemon, and kill the inducer, with a move such as Pursuit. A bulkier Psy-type like Uxie can help your team more, with i.e. Dual Screens, Knock Off, Memento or Heal Bell. It even gets Rocks, meaning Skarm could go with Spikes.

    Final point: Use Flash Fire on Chandelure, to give it a 3rd immunity, while making Fire Blast an insanely powerful move, coming from a Chandelure. Also, Shadow Tag Chandeliers are uber.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ilan View Post
    Use reuniculus and terrakion and switch regice with blissey or chansey or if you want a check for dragons then try empoleon maybe it is UU but have a unique typing.
    I'll look into Reuniculus and Blissey sets. I thought about Empoleon, but I couldn't find a set that went well with my team.
    Quote Originally Posted by The Skydryver View Post
    The synergy seems pretty good, so that can't be the problem of the failing.

    As for Regice, I recommend an a bit more offensive set:
        Spoiler:- Sky's Regice:


    Kabutops is way too frail for OU. A pokemon that can deal with Heatran and Infernape is of course pretty hard, since, especiallly Infernape is hard to counter. Terrakion, as you said yourself, will be perfect, as it retains good synergy due to semi-similar typing.

    Gardevoir is a defensive Psy-type, but Hypnosis + Dream Eater simply won't work, cuz' people usually switch out the sleeping pokemon, and kill the inducer, with a move such as Pursuit. A bulkier Psy-type like Uxie can help your team more, with i.e. Dual Screens, Knock Off, Memento or Heal Bell. It even gets Rocks, meaning Skarm could go with Spikes.

    Final point: Use Flash Fire on Chandelure, to give it a 3rd immunity, while making Fire Blast an insanely powerful move, coming from a Chandelure. Also, Shadow Tag Chandeliers are uber.
    I like the Regice set. I'll try it out, and see if it works well.

    I'm thinking of this Terrakion set...

        Spoiler:- Terrakion:


    I'm considering switching Gardevoir for this...

        Spoiler:- Uxie:


    I was looking at a Sigilyph set, but it simply requires too much setup to be effective.

    I didn't know ST Chandelure was Uber, I'll change that now. Thanks.
    Last edited by Divine Retribution; 4th September 2012 at 12:21 AM.


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  6. #6
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    For Uxie, as it is a dual screener, use Light Clay > Leftovers. Also, it is Taunt bait, if you seem to have trouble with that, use U-Turn > Memento.
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  7. #7

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sevensevens
    I made my first Gen V competitive team the other day. Predictably, it failed. Hard. To be fully honest, I'm not even sure it's salvageable, but I'd like your opinion on it, too.
    It's not the worst team I've ever seen, it's actually better than most of the "First Competitive Team" I see here, Marriland, and Smogon.

    One thing I have to clarify is that there isn't such thing as a "lead" in Gen V, so I don't get the whole "This is an Anti Lead Scarf Chandelure" since 1.) there aren't really any specific lead Pokes in Gen V and 2.) A lot of people like to start off the match with stuff like Tyranitar, Scarf Rotom-W, and Politoed, so Scarf Chandelure really isn't an "Anti Lead Poke" since it's beaten by so many common Pokemon.

    This team is rather Scizor weak. Magnezone will easily trap your Skarmory while Stealth Rock or a random Pursuit will make quick work of Chandelure, leaving a team with Pokemon that are all OHKOed or 2HKOed by a Choice Band Bullet Punch. Also strong Fighters like Terrakion and Breloom can easily give this team trouble, scoring tons of KOs left and right if you're not careful. Sun teams will easily beat this team when they trap Chandelure with Dugtrio and then proceed to send in their Venusaur and destroy everything in sight with Giga Drain and Hidden Power Fire. Also, this team is really slow, so fast Pokemon like Starmie and Tornadus-T can come in and fire off a powerful STAB attack that your team has immense trouble handling. You also said Heatran is also causing some troubles. And that seems to be the truth. So obviously, there are some bits of flaws in the team.

    First and foremost, I would suggest dropping Regice. It doesn't work in practice, in fact I don't even think it works in theory lol. Scizor beats it, Fighting types beat it, Sun team beats it, strong Rain boosted hits beat it, Tyranitar beats it, etc. And it only makes each flaw in your team an even bigger one and it's absolutely worthless for your team in my opinion. I would take it out for a check to many of your threats like a Gliscor, which takes care of most Scizor, most Terrakion, and most Breloom sets. However, Gliscor may not be your cup of tea, so I might also suggest a Latias that will serve as some check to those Fighting types.

    Then I'll take out Gardevoir, since that thing doesn't work very well in the OU environment and the fact that it's outclassed by Alakazam and Reuniclus. Again, it makes your Scizor weakness that much more of a problem. I suggest you fill Gardevoir's spot with Gastrodon, which can take on Starmie and Heatran for you. Or as a more offensive approach, you can use Scarf Rotom-W (which I recommend slightly more than Gastrodon).

    Chandelure can go away for a Heatran instead. Heatran has that nice Steel typing and bulk to take on Tornadus-T. It also has access to Stealth Rock, meaning Skarmory can instead use Spikes. It's also not something that is Pursuit weak like Chandelure, so it's a more reliable counter to Scizor. And prehaps the biggest reason to use Heatran is the fact that it causes Sun teams a large headache if they don't have a Dugtrio.

        Spoiler:- Set Dump:

  8. #8
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    I tried the Regice setup recommended by Sky. I was impressed, it performed a LOT better than my old set. Still, something wasn't right, so I tried the Gliscor and Latias sets suggested by Mess. Latias performed the best, so Regice is getting replaced. I'm still looking for an adequate replacement to Gardevoir (the above Rotom-W is what I'm considering now.). I'm testing my team with Heatran or Infernape instead of Chandelure. Chandelure ended up being an awesome revenge killer, but if there's a better option out there, I'm all for it.


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  9. #9
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    On Chandalure run Modest over Timid, he has fine Spd with Choice Scarf so the SpAtk can help.
    I'd recomend a Bulky Rotom-W over Gradevoir, due to countering Fires, sand abusers and waters well. And like you said Heatran, Volcarona and Scizor. a set like this is good:
    Rotom-W @ Leftovers
    EVs: 252 HP / 252 SpAtk / 4 in anything else
    Modest Nature
    -Thuder
    -Hydropump
    -Substitute
    -Thunder Wave
    Just a littel prediction and this set becomes dangerus.

    Also consider Deoxys-D over Regice, due too Ice being a bad defensive type (at least normal only has 1 weakness and has 1 immuity) and Deoxys-D seting up Stealth Rock and Spikes. Opening a moveslot on Scarm or just switch him altoogeter. Seems well built. I can also recomend trying Choice spec and Overheat over Scarf and Fire Blast on Chandalure, but it slows him down. I also recomend Scarf over Band on Terrakion.

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