Community POTW #88

[AquaRegisteel]

Mixed Venusaur

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Nature: Naughty Nature / Hasty Nature
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spe
Trait: Chlorophyll
- Growth
- Giga Drain
- Earthquake
- Sludge Bomb / HP Fire / Sleep Powder

Growth is standard in the sun, for sure. Giga Drain is now available through BW2 Tutors, so that is your best attack. Earthquake smashed Heatran and Chandelure, which is cool. Sludge Bomb beats any dragons that usually wall. HP Fire hits...stuff, and gets an equivalent STAB boost, but Sludge Bomb hits most of what would be hit by HP Fire. Sleep Powder shuts down a counter, like Dragons who wall you without Sludge Bomb.

Prediction for next week: Altaria.

[multi-scale]

Abilities
Overgrow: No.
Chloroyphyll: Thanks to Ninetales coming with Drought, this has turned Venasaur into the game's best sun sweeper. Growth now gives +2 in both attacking stats under the sunlight, so after one turn in sun Venasaur has basically used Shell Smash without any defense drops.

Venasaur got much better this generation thanks to Drought, Growth, and Chloryphyll. Apparently it can't used Power Whip or Giga Drain (although it may be available in BW2), but its STABs hit every other weather starter for SE damage. Power Whip (if available) would smash Tyranitar and Politoed on their weaker defense stat while Sludge Bomb deals with Abomasnow (but Venasaur will take a lot from Blizzard, but you'll have Fire pokemon on a sun team anyway).

Partners
Ninetales is a given. Never use Venasaur without it. Venasaur is also good at stopping opposing weather starters, but pack a Fire Type for Abomasnow. Ferrothorn is also a good choice as it's Power Whip does solid damage to Politoed and Tyranitar (but watch out for Fire Blast). Venasaur also sports a resistance to Fighting types and hits Terrakion hard with Grass STAB, so use things that can benefit off that. Jellicent has resistances to Fire and Ice while Venasaur resists Electric, making it a solid combination. Rotom-W also likes Venasaur because it 4x resists Grass, while Rotom resists Fire and Ice.

With Tornadus-T out and wreaking havoc, it's imperative to pack a counter, as it will destroy Venasaur with Hurricane. It Tornadus-T is choiced, Venasaur and Blissey can stop it together with the help of Stealth Rock, has Blissey or Chansey can switch into Hurricane and Venasaur can come into Superpower.

[Jazz Hands]

SunnySaur
Venusaur (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Chlorophyll
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SAtk / 252 Spd
Modest Nature (+SAtk, -Atk)
- Growth
- SolarBeam
- Hidden Power [Fire]
- Sleep Powder

Venusaur is lethal. I mean, Growth gives it +2 sp.attack in sun, and then there's Solarbeam. It wrecks everything, even if it resists it! Chlorophyll doubles it's already decent speed, meaning that you can use Sleep Powder on any fire types that might get in the way.

[multi-scale]

Counters
It really depends on weather and the Hidden Power. In the sun Venasaur is a super fast killing machine, but as long as it doesn't have HP Ground Heatran beats it. Heatran resists Grass 4x and is immune to Poison and will beat Venasaur with a sun boosted Fire Blast. In fact, a set of Growth/Grass move/Sludge Bomb/HP Ice is walled by Heatran completely. However, physical sets will kill Heatran with Earthquake and a boosted HP Ground will do the same. If it has HP Ground over HP Ice Dragonite is a good option. Grass is resisted 4x and it can either set up a DDance or hit with a sun boosted Fire Punch/Blast. Ferrothorn will wall it if it doesn't carry HP Fire, but it can't hurt it at all without Gyro Ball. Jirachi can if there is no HP Ground or Fire, but it can take HP Fire in the rain and paralyze Venasaur. In any other weather Venasaur is much slower and much easier to kill. In Hail a 100% accurate Blizzard from something like Kyurem should finish it off. In rain Tirnadus-T is probably the best. It can outspeed and hit Vensaur hard with Hurricane. Venasaur can't kill it without HP Ice or a boosted Sludge Bomb. It also can't cripple Therian Form like it could with Incarnation Form thanks to Torndaus-T's better defenses. It can also Roost off the damage or U-Turn out and heal with Regenerator. Reuniclus with Trick Room can outspeed it and tank special sets with Calm Mind and beat it with a Psychic move.

[your boss]

Taunt comes to mind against Subseedsaur, then Tornadus can use Rain Dance and kill it with Hurricane.

[MatchMaster]

Last generation, Venusaur was outclassed by Roserade, who has the same typing, but more Speed and Special Attack. Venusaur has risen above it now though, due to what it got in the fifth generation. First of all, it got Chlorophyll, which brings its mediocre speed stats to high levels. Next, it got an improved Growth, which gives it a +2 boost to both its Attack and Special Attack when in the sun. Lastly, the advent of Drought Ninetales gives Venusaur endless sunlight to use the aforementioned traits. Although it sounds crazy, it can even function in Ubers, as Groudon is a very prominent force in the tier. The changes in BW2 also went in its favor: It got Giga Drain and Seed Bomb from the move tutors, meaning they can be used with Chlorophyll. The only real flaw with Venusaur is its movepool, which mostly consists of Grass- and Poison-type moves. It also has a somewhat lackluster Defense stat, so it struggles against 2 of the most common priority moves: Bullet Punch and ExtremeSpeed. Overall Venusaur is a great Pokemon that should always be considered when making a sun team.

Abilities
Overgrow:The power of Grass-type moves increase by 1.5× in a pinch. Not too useful, as Venusaur's main selling point is Chlorophyll. The only reason you would want to use this is if you really want Power Whip and Leaf Storm, but then you would be better off using Tangrowth or Roserade.
Chlorophyll: As mentioned before, Venusaur's main reason it improved so much. Allows Venusaur to be the fastest unboosted Pokemon in OU, making it an excellent sweeper.

Special Growth
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Modest / Timid
EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
- Giga Drain / Grass Knot / SolarBeam
- Hidden Power Fire
- Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb
- Growth

This is Venusaur's most effective set. The First moveslot is completely up to the player. Giga Drain is generally the recommended option, as it recovers Venusaur's health while dealing respectable damage. Grass Knot can be used to hit Tyranitar, Suicune, and Groudon harder. SolarBeam is viable as Venusaur is almost always used in the sun. Just make sure that the opponent's weather inducers are eliminated before you use it, since the opponent can trap Venusaur for a turn if they switch in when SolarBeam is selected. Hidden Power Fire is usually a necessity so Venusaur can take down Steel-type without leaving it to its teammates. Sleep Powder can eliminate an opponent's Pokemon for the rest of the match, while Sludge Bomb provides secondary STAB and more coverage. Growth is the staple of the set, boosting Venusaur's Special Attack to 500+.

Physical Growth
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Lonely / Adamant
EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
- Seed Bomb
- Return / Earthquake
- Hidden Power Fire / Sleep Powder
- Growth

This is another approach at a sweeper, except with more coverage. Seed Bomb hits reasonably hard after a boost. Return gives good coverage with Seed Bomb. Hidden Power Fire is recommended in the last slot, as Seed Bomb and Return are walled by the ever-present Steel-types. Sleep Powder could still be used if you have a teammate that can handle these threats along with the handful of other Pokemon that wall this set. Earthquake could also be used over Return to hit Chandelure. In this case, Sleep Powder is more viable over Hidden Power Fire, as Earthquake hit Steel-types super-effectively.

Swords Dance
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
- Seed Bomb
- Sleep Powder
- Earthquake
- Swords Dance

This set is designed to catch it's normal switch-ins off-guard, particularly Dialga and Steel Arceus. Seed Bomb is the main STAB of choice, OHKOing Jellicent, Kyogre, and all but the most defensive of Groudon after a boost. Earthquake can surprise Poison-types, particularly Toxicroak and Tentacruel.

Mixed Growth
Item: Life Orb
Ability: Chlorophyll
Nature: Jolly
EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
- Grass Knot / Giga Drain
- Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
- Earthquake
- Growth

Rather than being Physically-based, Venusaur is also capable of running a set that doesn't focus on either Special or Physical attacks. Grass Knot OHKOs both Kyogre and Groudon after a boost. Giga Drain is still an option though, to give Venusaur more longevity. Sludge Bomb can hit more targets for neutral damage, but is notable as it stops Venusaur from being setup bait for Shaymin-S. Sleep Powder immobilizes Pokemon for possibly the rest of the match, so it could be used over Sludge Bomb. Earthquake is one of this set's selling points, surprising Dialga, Heatran, and Jirachi.

Other Options
SubSeed is viable, and it stands out as Venusaur is probably the only common Grass/Poison-type to use it. Outrage can catch Latios by surprise, but isn't too good as it lacks STAB. Venusaur also has other moves including Power Whip and Leaf Storm, but it must forgo Chlorophyll for them. Like most Pokemon, it got Sleep Talk in BW2, making a mono-attacking set with Rest, Sleep Talk, Growth, and Giga Drain or Grass Knot viable, to heal paralysis, which really hinders Venusaur. Double-Edge could be used over Return, but the recoil discourages this as Venusaur generally wants to stay in as long as it can. Petal Dance is Venusaur's most powerful move, but due it's side effect of being locked into it combined with the fact that Grass-type moves are resisted by six types, it's discouraged. Block, Knock Off. and Toxic round out Venusaur's support movepool, but don't see much use.

Counters
Venusaur is very difficult to counter due to Sleep Powder, but once Sleep Clause is activated, it's more manageable. Heracross comes to mind, as it can absorb Sleep Powder, but must get lucky, as only Megahorn will OHKO. Another way would be to get rid of Venusaur's sunlight. Choice Scarf Abomasnow does this best, as it can come in on anything but Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire, and hit Venusaur with Blizzard. Tyranitar can also do this, but will lose to Venusaur who carry Seed Bomb, Grass Knot, or Earthquake. Heatran works well as it resists and is immune to Venusaur's STAB moves, and it benefits from the sun, and works even better if it's carrying an Air Balloon to avoid Earthquake. Paralyzing Venusaur severely hinders its sweep. Whimsicott and Thundurus work the best at this, as they have Prankster to give it a priority Stun Spore and Thunder Wave, respectively.

[Dragrath]

Chlorophyll Venasaur Quite powerful in sun but I think it should be noted that if the weather is changed solarbeam turns into a liability, so other moves could work... especially as a lot of the weather changers are weak to grass and could fall switching into battle.

too bad they never released chlorophyll Venasaur internationally, or thet could have at least given it a chance to be female

[your boss]

Pun time (haven't done this in a bit):

Sweep in the Sun, Like a Saur!
I'm Saury, could you repeat that?
Saurus (Zodiac reference)
I'm in a depression from this Saurow!

[Aurath8]

5th gen has been very kind to the aging Grass starter. Chorophyll, Drought Ninetales and new Growth mechanics helped its rise to OU and become a staple on Sun teams everywhere. Even Giga Drain got a boost and new Sleep mechanics make Sleep Powder even better!

Counters
Unfortunately, Venusaur is very difficult to counter due to having an insanely fast Sleep Powder and each of it's sets having mutually exclusive counters. Blissey and Chansey will always handle special variants with ease, but physical variants can rip them apart with Seed Bomb, for example.
Balloon Heatran is probably the best counter. It can take anything Venasaur throws at him, bar Earthquake/HP[Fighting], and roast it with Sun-boosted Fire Blasts.
Err, I guess if Venasaur lacks Hidden Power[Fire], then a ton of Steel types can take it on, like Jirachi, or Ferrothorn...Lati@s can also take it on with HP[Fire]/Psyshock, especially if he lacks Sludge Bomb... I guess you can see where I'm going with this.
Another thing to note is that Venasaur is nigh impossible to counter until Sleep Clause has been activated, so sacrifice something to take the sleep, and that will make it much easier to deal with.

[Takeo]

Free your mind


Venusaur (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Roar
- Leech Seed

Its gimmick time and taking a page from the great BD, for those who don't know who this beautiful user is, well that just shows how noobish you are in this competitive community. Omg no sun! but whats this?, Rain instead!. Venusaur does a few things for a rain team that no other mon could do effectively. For one, it's a great way of getting momentum vs volt turn teams. Sleep powder is really nice for keeping ferrothorn from bugging you, and it's probably the best way of slowing down volt turn. Leech seed and giga drain keep Venusaur alive for a really long time depsite its lack of direct recovery. Roar in conujunction with entry hazards is really effective, which are other wise hard to take down in rain. Roar stops a lot of threats from setting up, ex: it gets bulk up breloom out of your face, lol. Venusaur absorbs Toxic Spikes, survives Terrakion Close Combat and besides Attack has overall better stats than Breloom. The 120 defense evs are to help take fighting attacks. CB terrakion has a 4% chance to 2hko for instance. Venusaurs bulk is really underated I think. It takes hits from Rotom-W all day even without max special defense, and has enough bulk on the physical side to stop the thing if need be. Oh?, wondering why its not running chlorophyll?, it's because it's illegal with giga drain, and giga drain gives Venusaur a ton more survivablity.

All hail BD, All hail Venusaur

BH is a slut, I'm punnier then you.

[Montresor]

Free your mind


Venusaur (F) @ Leftovers
Trait: Overgrow
EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
- Sleep Powder
- Giga Drain
- Roar
- Leech Seed

Its gimmick time and taking a page from the great BD, for those who don't know who this beautiful user is, well that just shows how noobish you are in this competitive community. Omg no sun! but whats this?, Rain instead!. Venusaur does a few things for a rain team that no other mon could do effectively. For one, it's a great way of getting momentum vs volt turn teams. Sleep powder is really nice for keeping ferrothorn from bugging you, and it's probably the best way of slowing down volt turn. Leech seed and giga drain keep Venusaur alive for a really long time depsite its lack of direct recovery. Roar in conujunction with entry hazards is really effective, which are other wise hard to take down in rain. Roar stops a lot of threats from setting up, ex: it gets bulk up breloom out of your face, lol. Venusaur absorbs Toxic Spikes, survives Terrakion Close Combat and besides Attack has overall better stats than Breloom. The 120 defense evs are to help take fighting attacks. CB terrakion has a 4% chance to 2hko for instance. Venusaurs bulk is really underated I think. It takes hits from Rotom-W all day even without max special defense, and has enough bulk on the physical side to stop the thing if need be. Oh?, wondering why its not running chlorophyll?, it's because it's illegal with giga drain, and giga drain gives Venusaur a ton more survivablity.

All hail BD, All hail Venusaur

BH is a slut, I'm punnier then you.

chlorophyll + giga drain is legal now!
now you can use this set effectively in the rain and when playing against sun.

Counters
Unfortunately, Venusaur is very difficult to counter due to having an insanely fast Sleep Powder and each of it's sets having mutually exclusive counters. Blissey and Chansey will always handle special variants with ease, but physical variants can rip them apart with Seed Bomb, for example.
Balloon Heatran is probably the best counter. It can take anything Venasaur throws at him, bar Earthquake/HP[Fighting], and roast it with Sun-boosted Fire Blasts.
Err, I guess if Venasaur lacks Hidden Power[Fire], then a ton of Steel types can take it on, like Jirachi, or Ferrothorn...Lati@s can also take it on with HP[Fire]/Psyshock, especially if he lacks Sludge Bomb... I guess you can see where I'm going with this.
Another thing to note is that Venasaur is nigh impossible to counter until Sleep Clause has been activated, so sacrifice something to take the sleep, and that will make it much easier to deal with.

blissey and chansey actually lose to special venusaur who run growth and giga drain

[Kraleck]

Venusaur is rather lackluster on raw Base Stats. Great Specials, Above-Average HP, Barely-Above-Average Physicals, and Average Speed. Kinda reminiscent of Flygon's numbers, if you ask me.

However, Chlorophyll and the 5th Gen buff to Growth made it rise from mediocrity into a force to be reckoned with. A maximum Speed stat with only a Chlorophyll buff nets you a whopping 568 with a Speed-Up Nature, 518 with a Speed-Neutral Nature, or 466 with a Speed-Down Nature. Consider, though, that even a maxed out Speed Stat on Speed Deoxys only reaches 504, meaning you can invest a few EVs in something besides Speed (unless you go with a Speed-Down Nature for some weird reason).

Bulldoze is an interesting option over EQ. The main reason is if you know your opponent can change the Weather. Abomasnow and (potentially) Tyranitar are the worst weather offenders to Venusaur, but only Tyranitar will have something to fear from Bulldoze. Other Weather-mon outside of Kyogre have disadvantages in Speed and Type or have to spend a turn to change the weather.

Most importantly, Cloud Nine can screw with Venusaur's plans by a mere smidge. Golduck outruns Venusaur and Altaria Speed-ties, while Lickilicky has considerable 110/95/95 endurance. This means Golduck can fight back with Ice Beam, Ice Punch, or Psychic, Altaria can use Flamethrower, Heat Wave, or Power Herb+STAB Sky Attack, and Lickilicky can use Gyro Ball, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Flamethrower, or Fire Punch with less fear.

"Less" fear. Not "no" fear. Venusaur has considerable advantage over Golduck in Stats and Type, Altaria can't use Natural Cure and Cloud Nine to eliminate Sleep, and Lickilicky can't outrun Sleep Powder nor Toxic. Other Pokemon with some advantage over Venusaur include Ice Shard users, bulky Trick Room users, and Pranksters with Status Move Paralysis infliction (Whimsicott's Stun Spore, Murkrow, Volbeat, Illumise, and Liepard's Thunder Wave) or Speed debuffing (Whimsicott's Cotton Spore). Even then, Pranksters may also have Spite (Sableye) or Role Play (Liepard) to ruin your day.

Chlorophyll users that can outrun Venusaur include Jumpluff, DW Leafeon, Leavanny, DW Whimsicott, Lilligant, and Sawsbuck while Speed ties include Skiploom and Shiftry. Aside from Status Effects (primarily Paralysis), Skiploom and Jumpluff can't do much aside from small chip damages, Leavanny and DW Leafeon are 1-shot by HP (Fire), Whimsicott should stick to Prankster anyway, and that leaves Lilligant and Sawsbuck. From there, consider what little Lilligant can do to Venusaur on offense - HP (Fire). Sawsbuck has access to Megahorn and STAB Return for neutral coverage on Venusaur, both aiming at Venusaur's lower Defense.

[Coyote_Dynamo]

Venusaur
item: leftovers
ability: overgrow/chlorophyll
EVs: 252HP/252DEF/4SDEF
Nature: Bold
Moves: leech seed
Substitute
Giga drain
Hidden power (fire)

[sbktdreed]

Item:Big Root/Leftovers/Black Sludge
Adamant/Lax w/ 168 Attack, 168 Sp Attack, 174 HP
Power Whip/Energy Ball/Seed Bomb/Giga Drain
Sludge Bomb
Earthquake/Bulldoze
Leech Seed/Worry Seed

Partners:
Sunny Day-users if Solarbeam is used instead.
Flying/Levitate/Telepathy-pokemon if Earthquake/Bulldoze is used

Countering:
High Attack and Sp Defense pokemon with Physical Fire/Ice/Psychic/Flying-type moves like:
Avalanche Vanilluxe
Moxie Gyarados (Ice Fang/Bounce)
Dragonite (Fire/Ice Punch/Aerial Ace)
Iron Fist Hitmonchan (Fire/Ice Punch)

Under Trick Room conditions:
Dusknoir/Stench Muk (Fire/Ice Punch)
Aerial Ace Ferrothorn/Escavialier
Empoleon (Aerial Ace/Drill Peck/Pluck)
Immunity/Lum Berry-equiped Snorlax (Fire/Ice Punch/Zen Headbutt)
Shed Skin Scrafty (Fire/Ice Punch/Zen Headbutt)

[billpika]

Tentacruel is a viable counter, w/ Liquid Ooze. Another counter is any flying type, notably Moltres for resisting hidden power ice.

[Ilan]

OK, I think o one posted the following statements:
-Venusaur should really only used as a sun sweeper he is one of the best on it and it's the best thing you can do with it cause really chlorophyll is amazing.
-Venusaur have a big problem of 4 move syndromen it will be walled depending on his coverage moves if you run HP fire or ice- Fire Types, ice-steels, fire- Dragons and fire types
ground-flying types specially Dragonite HP rock- steels
It depends on your team if you are using HP fire you should use a good dragon counter like mamoswine and a good fire type counter too.
-Sleep Powder should be used in most sets cause it is amazing.
-Giga Drain is released with chlorophyll and should be always used over energy ball.
-Great defensive typing can't be toxic poisoned and absorbs toxic spikes, but weak to some common moves like fire and ice.
-Sun is a blessing but it also makes venusaur extreamly weak to fire.
-Solar beam is mosly risky but you might use it if you have dugtrio or another pokemon with sunny day.

[SwiftGrovyle]

Ah, Venosaur, the one grass starter I never had.

Sub
Leech seed
Giga drain
Hp ice/ fire/ Toxic/ sleep powder

But one thing I do know about this guy- never can fully get out of old habits. Subseed is a classic thing for Venosaur, since Gen I. But with Chlorophyll, he has the speed he didn't have for the last two generations. And speed is what made it out-classed for him. Sceptile, in that amount of time was better. But no more. Hp are for the obvious types he can do too well against, toxic for more action, and sleep powder... To make a nightmare of a counter, (no pun intended) into a helpless sleeping baby.

Be back for more!

[Patri25]

Dinasaur:
Venusaur@Black Sludge
Ablility:Chlorophyll
Nature:Bold
Ev´s:252HP/252Def./4Sp.Def
Moves:
~Giga Drain
~Toxic
~Leech Seed
~Amnesia

Giga drain is the main move, it has STAB and recovers HP.Toxic is for annoy the opponent.Amnesia is for raise the Sp. Def. because he has got Bold nature(+def) and he has max Def.Leech seed is for recover hP every turn or force the switch.

[MetalCrow]

Idk what the general consensus is, but evolite ivysaur seems like it would be better suited for bulkier roles...stat wise, ivysaur is only 20 points below venusaur in every stat

[Blue Harvest]

Lacking Leftovers makes Ivysaur a worse Venusaur. Also it doesn't really take hits any better, at least not enough to validate losing Leftovers.

It has worse Special Attack and Speed too.


Edit: Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur :(