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Thread: Community POTW #88

  1. #26
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    Last generation, Venusaur was outclassed by Roserade, who has the same typing, but more Speed and Special Attack. Venusaur has risen above it now though, due to what it got in the fifth generation. First of all, it got Chlorophyll, which brings its mediocre speed stats to high levels. Next, it got an improved Growth, which gives it a +2 boost to both its Attack and Special Attack when in the sun. Lastly, the advent of Drought Ninetales gives Venusaur endless sunlight to use the aforementioned traits. Although it sounds crazy, it can even function in Ubers, as Groudon is a very prominent force in the tier. The changes in BW2 also went in its favor: It got Giga Drain and Seed Bomb from the move tutors, meaning they can be used with Chlorophyll. The only real flaw with Venusaur is its movepool, which mostly consists of Grass- and Poison-type moves. It also has a somewhat lackluster Defense stat, so it struggles against 2 of the most common priority moves: Bullet Punch and ExtremeSpeed. Overall Venusaur is a great Pokemon that should always be considered when making a sun team.

    Abilities
    Overgrow:The power of Grass-type moves increase by 1.5× in a pinch. Not too useful, as Venusaur's main selling point is Chlorophyll. The only reason you would want to use this is if you really want Power Whip and Leaf Storm, but then you would be better off using Tangrowth or Roserade.
    Chlorophyll: As mentioned before, Venusaur's main reason it improved so much. Allows Venusaur to be the fastest unboosted Pokemon in OU, making it an excellent sweeper.

    Special Growth
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Modest / Timid
    EVs: 4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Giga Drain / Grass Knot / SolarBeam
    - Hidden Power Fire
    - Sleep Powder / Sludge Bomb
    - Growth

    This is Venusaur's most effective set. The First moveslot is completely up to the player. Giga Drain is generally the recommended option, as it recovers Venusaur's health while dealing respectable damage. Grass Knot can be used to hit Tyranitar, Suicune, and Groudon harder. SolarBeam is viable as Venusaur is almost always used in the sun. Just make sure that the opponent's weather inducers are eliminated before you use it, since the opponent can trap Venusaur for a turn if they switch in when SolarBeam is selected. Hidden Power Fire is usually a necessity so Venusaur can take down Steel-type without leaving it to its teammates. Sleep Powder can eliminate an opponent's Pokemon for the rest of the match, while Sludge Bomb provides secondary STAB and more coverage. Growth is the staple of the set, boosting Venusaur's Special Attack to 500+.

    Physical Growth
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Lonely / Adamant
    EVs: 252 Atk / 4 SpA / 252 Spe
    - Seed Bomb
    - Return / Earthquake
    - Hidden Power Fire / Sleep Powder
    - Growth

    This is another approach at a sweeper, except with more coverage. Seed Bomb hits reasonably hard after a boost. Return gives good coverage with Seed Bomb. Hidden Power Fire is recommended in the last slot, as Seed Bomb and Return are walled by the ever-present Steel-types. Sleep Powder could still be used if you have a teammate that can handle these threats along with the handful of other Pokemon that wall this set. Earthquake could also be used over Return to hit Chandelure. In this case, Sleep Powder is more viable over Hidden Power Fire, as Earthquake hit Steel-types super-effectively.

    Swords Dance
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 92 HP / 252 Atk / 164 Spe
    - Seed Bomb
    - Sleep Powder
    - Earthquake
    - Swords Dance

    This set is designed to catch it's normal switch-ins off-guard, particularly Dialga and Steel Arceus. Seed Bomb is the main STAB of choice, OHKOing Jellicent, Kyogre, and all but the most defensive of Groudon after a boost. Earthquake can surprise Poison-types, particularly Toxicroak and Tentacruel.

    Mixed Growth
    Item: Life Orb
    Ability: Chlorophyll
    Nature: Jolly
    EVs: 92 Atk / 252 SpA / 164 Spe
    - Grass Knot / Giga Drain
    - Sludge Bomb / Sleep Powder
    - Earthquake
    - Growth

    Rather than being Physically-based, Venusaur is also capable of running a set that doesn't focus on either Special or Physical attacks. Grass Knot OHKOs both Kyogre and Groudon after a boost. Giga Drain is still an option though, to give Venusaur more longevity. Sludge Bomb can hit more targets for neutral damage, but is notable as it stops Venusaur from being setup bait for Shaymin-S. Sleep Powder immobilizes Pokemon for possibly the rest of the match, so it could be used over Sludge Bomb. Earthquake is one of this set's selling points, surprising Dialga, Heatran, and Jirachi.

    Other Options
    SubSeed is viable, and it stands out as Venusaur is probably the only common Grass/Poison-type to use it. Outrage can catch Latios by surprise, but isn't too good as it lacks STAB. Venusaur also has other moves including Power Whip and Leaf Storm, but it must forgo Chlorophyll for them. Like most Pokemon, it got Sleep Talk in BW2, making a mono-attacking set with Rest, Sleep Talk, Growth, and Giga Drain or Grass Knot viable, to heal paralysis, which really hinders Venusaur. Double-Edge could be used over Return, but the recoil discourages this as Venusaur generally wants to stay in as long as it can. Petal Dance is Venusaur's most powerful move, but due it's side effect of being locked into it combined with the fact that Grass-type moves are resisted by six types, it's discouraged. Block, Knock Off. and Toxic round out Venusaur's support movepool, but don't see much use.

    Counters
    Venusaur is very difficult to counter due to Sleep Powder, but once Sleep Clause is activated, it's more manageable. Heracross comes to mind, as it can absorb Sleep Powder, but must get lucky, as only Megahorn will OHKO. Another way would be to get rid of Venusaur's sunlight. Choice Scarf Abomasnow does this best, as it can come in on anything but Sludge Bomb and Hidden Power Fire, and hit Venusaur with Blizzard. Tyranitar can also do this, but will lose to Venusaur who carry Seed Bomb, Grass Knot, or Earthquake. Heatran works well as it resists and is immune to Venusaur's STAB moves, and it benefits from the sun, and works even better if it's carrying an Air Balloon to avoid Earthquake. Paralyzing Venusaur severely hinders its sweep. Whimsicott and Thundurus work the best at this, as they have Prankster to give it a priority Stun Spore and Thunder Wave, respectively.
    Last edited by MatchMaster; 3rd September 2012 at 5:15 PM.
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  2. #27
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    Chlorophyll Venasaur Quite powerful in sun but I think it should be noted that if the weather is changed solarbeam turns into a liability, so other moves could work... especially as a lot of the weather changers are weak to grass and could fall switching into battle.

    too bad they never released chlorophyll Venasaur internationally, or thet could have at least given it a chance to be female
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  3. #28
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    Pun time (haven't done this in a bit):

    Sweep in the Sun, Like a Saur!
    I'm Saury, could you repeat that?
    Saurus (Zodiac reference)
    I'm in a depression from this Saurow!


  4. #29
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    5th gen has been very kind to the aging Grass starter. Chorophyll, Drought Ninetales and new Growth mechanics helped its rise to OU and become a staple on Sun teams everywhere. Even Giga Drain got a boost and new Sleep mechanics make Sleep Powder even better!

    Counters
    Unfortunately, Venusaur is very difficult to counter due to having an insanely fast Sleep Powder and each of it's sets having mutually exclusive counters. Blissey and Chansey will always handle special variants with ease, but physical variants can rip them apart with Seed Bomb, for example.
    Balloon Heatran is probably the best counter. It can take anything Venasaur throws at him, bar Earthquake/HP[Fighting], and roast it with Sun-boosted Fire Blasts.
    Err, I guess if Venasaur lacks Hidden Power[Fire], then a ton of Steel types can take it on, like Jirachi, or Ferrothorn...Lati@s can also take it on with HP[Fire]/Psyshock, especially if he lacks Sludge Bomb... I guess you can see where I'm going with this.
    Another thing to note is that Venasaur is nigh impossible to counter until Sleep Clause has been activated, so sacrifice something to take the sleep, and that will make it much easier to deal with.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  5. #30
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    Free your mind


    Venusaur (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Roar
    - Leech Seed

    Its gimmick time and taking a page from the great BD, for those who don't know who this beautiful user is, well that just shows how noobish you are in this competitive community. Omg no sun! but whats this?, Rain instead!. Venusaur does a few things for a rain team that no other mon could do effectively. For one, it's a great way of getting momentum vs volt turn teams. Sleep powder is really nice for keeping ferrothorn from bugging you, and it's probably the best way of slowing down volt turn. Leech seed and giga drain keep Venusaur alive for a really long time depsite its lack of direct recovery. Roar in conujunction with entry hazards is really effective, which are other wise hard to take down in rain. Roar stops a lot of threats from setting up, ex: it gets bulk up breloom out of your face, lol. Venusaur absorbs Toxic Spikes, survives Terrakion Close Combat and besides Attack has overall better stats than Breloom. The 120 defense evs are to help take fighting attacks. CB terrakion has a 4% chance to 2hko for instance. Venusaurs bulk is really underated I think. It takes hits from Rotom-W all day even without max special defense, and has enough bulk on the physical side to stop the thing if need be. Oh?, wondering why its not running chlorophyll?, it's because it's illegal with giga drain, and giga drain gives Venusaur a ton more survivablity.

    All hail BD, All hail Venusaur

    BH is a slut, I'm punnier then you.


  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
    Free your mind


    Venusaur (F) @ Leftovers
    Trait: Overgrow
    EVs: 252 HP / 120 Def / 136 SDef
    Calm Nature (+SDef, -Atk)
    - Sleep Powder
    - Giga Drain
    - Roar
    - Leech Seed

    Its gimmick time and taking a page from the great BD, for those who don't know who this beautiful user is, well that just shows how noobish you are in this competitive community. Omg no sun! but whats this?, Rain instead!. Venusaur does a few things for a rain team that no other mon could do effectively. For one, it's a great way of getting momentum vs volt turn teams. Sleep powder is really nice for keeping ferrothorn from bugging you, and it's probably the best way of slowing down volt turn. Leech seed and giga drain keep Venusaur alive for a really long time depsite its lack of direct recovery. Roar in conujunction with entry hazards is really effective, which are other wise hard to take down in rain. Roar stops a lot of threats from setting up, ex: it gets bulk up breloom out of your face, lol. Venusaur absorbs Toxic Spikes, survives Terrakion Close Combat and besides Attack has overall better stats than Breloom. The 120 defense evs are to help take fighting attacks. CB terrakion has a 4% chance to 2hko for instance. Venusaurs bulk is really underated I think. It takes hits from Rotom-W all day even without max special defense, and has enough bulk on the physical side to stop the thing if need be. Oh?, wondering why its not running chlorophyll?, it's because it's illegal with giga drain, and giga drain gives Venusaur a ton more survivablity.

    All hail BD, All hail Venusaur

    BH is a slut, I'm punnier then you.
    chlorophyll + giga drain is legal now!
    now you can use this set effectively in the rain and when playing against sun.

    Quote Originally Posted by Aurawarrior8 View Post

    Counters
    Unfortunately, Venusaur is very difficult to counter due to having an insanely fast Sleep Powder and each of it's sets having mutually exclusive counters. Blissey and Chansey will always handle special variants with ease, but physical variants can rip them apart with Seed Bomb, for example.
    Balloon Heatran is probably the best counter. It can take anything Venasaur throws at him, bar Earthquake/HP[Fighting], and roast it with Sun-boosted Fire Blasts.
    Err, I guess if Venasaur lacks Hidden Power[Fire], then a ton of Steel types can take it on, like Jirachi, or Ferrothorn...Lati@s can also take it on with HP[Fire]/Psyshock, especially if he lacks Sludge Bomb... I guess you can see where I'm going with this.
    Another thing to note is that Venasaur is nigh impossible to counter until Sleep Clause has been activated, so sacrifice something to take the sleep, and that will make it much easier to deal with.
    blissey and chansey actually lose to special venusaur who run growth and giga drain
    Last edited by Ísjaki; 3rd September 2012 at 4:09 AM.

    Credit to the amazing Lunar <3 and EG and BH :3

  7. #32
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    Venusaur is rather lackluster on raw Base Stats. Great Specials, Above-Average HP, Barely-Above-Average Physicals, and Average Speed. Kinda reminiscent of Flygon's numbers, if you ask me.

    However, Chlorophyll and the 5th Gen buff to Growth made it rise from mediocrity into a force to be reckoned with. A maximum Speed stat with only a Chlorophyll buff nets you a whopping 568 with a Speed-Up Nature, 518 with a Speed-Neutral Nature, or 466 with a Speed-Down Nature. Consider, though, that even a maxed out Speed Stat on Speed Deoxys only reaches 504, meaning you can invest a few EVs in something besides Speed (unless you go with a Speed-Down Nature for some weird reason).

    Bulldoze is an interesting option over EQ. The main reason is if you know your opponent can change the Weather. Abomasnow and (potentially) Tyranitar are the worst weather offenders to Venusaur, but only Tyranitar will have something to fear from Bulldoze. Other Weather-mon outside of Kyogre have disadvantages in Speed and Type or have to spend a turn to change the weather.

    Most importantly, Cloud Nine can screw with Venusaur's plans by a mere smidge. Golduck outruns Venusaur and Altaria Speed-ties, while Lickilicky has considerable 110/95/95 endurance. This means Golduck can fight back with Ice Beam, Ice Punch, or Psychic, Altaria can use Flamethrower, Heat Wave, or Power Herb+STAB Sky Attack, and Lickilicky can use Gyro Ball, Fire Punch, Zen Headbutt, Flamethrower, or Fire Punch with less fear.

    "Less" fear. Not "no" fear. Venusaur has considerable advantage over Golduck in Stats and Type, Altaria can't use Natural Cure and Cloud Nine to eliminate Sleep, and Lickilicky can't outrun Sleep Powder nor Toxic. Other Pokemon with some advantage over Venusaur include Ice Shard users, bulky Trick Room users, and Pranksters with Status Move Paralysis infliction (Whimsicott's Stun Spore, Murkrow, Volbeat, Illumise, and Liepard's Thunder Wave) or Speed debuffing (Whimsicott's Cotton Spore). Even then, Pranksters may also have Spite (Sableye) or Role Play (Liepard) to ruin your day.

    Chlorophyll users that can outrun Venusaur include Jumpluff, DW Leafeon, Leavanny, DW Whimsicott, Lilligant, and Sawsbuck while Speed ties include Skiploom and Shiftry. Aside from Status Effects (primarily Paralysis), Skiploom and Jumpluff can't do much aside from small chip damages, Leavanny and DW Leafeon are 1-shot by HP (Fire), Whimsicott should stick to Prankster anyway, and that leaves Lilligant and Sawsbuck. From there, consider what little Lilligant can do to Venusaur on offense - HP (Fire). Sawsbuck has access to Megahorn and STAB Return for neutral coverage on Venusaur, both aiming at Venusaur's lower Defense.
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  8. #33
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    Venusaur
    item: leftovers
    ability: overgrow/chlorophyll
    EVs: 252HP/252DEF/4SDEF
    Nature: Bold
    Moves: leech seed
    Substitute
    Giga drain
    Hidden power (fire)

  9. #34
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    Item:Big Root/Leftovers/Black Sludge
    Adamant/Lax w/ 168 Attack, 168 Sp Attack, 174 HP
    Power Whip/Energy Ball/Seed Bomb/Giga Drain
    Sludge Bomb
    Earthquake/Bulldoze
    Leech Seed/Worry Seed

    Partners:
    Sunny Day-users if Solarbeam is used instead.
    Flying/Levitate/Telepathy-pokemon if Earthquake/Bulldoze is used

    Countering:
    High Attack and Sp Defense pokemon with Physical Fire/Ice/Psychic/Flying-type moves like:
    Avalanche Vanilluxe
    Moxie Gyarados (Ice Fang/Bounce)
    Dragonite (Fire/Ice Punch/Aerial Ace)
    Iron Fist Hitmonchan (Fire/Ice Punch)

    Under Trick Room conditions:
    Dusknoir/Stench Muk (Fire/Ice Punch)
    Aerial Ace Ferrothorn/Escavialier
    Empoleon (Aerial Ace/Drill Peck/Pluck)
    Immunity/Lum Berry-equiped Snorlax (Fire/Ice Punch/Zen Headbutt)
    Shed Skin Scrafty (Fire/Ice Punch/Zen Headbutt)
    Last edited by sbktdreed; 9th September 2012 at 7:54 AM.
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  10. #35
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    Tentacruel is a viable counter, w/ Liquid Ooze. Another counter is any flying type, notably Moltres for resisting hidden power ice.
    Pikachu!

  11. #36
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    OK, I think o one posted the following statements:
    -Venusaur should really only used as a sun sweeper he is one of the best on it and it's the best thing you can do with it cause really chlorophyll is amazing.
    -Venusaur have a big problem of 4 move syndromen it will be walled depending on his coverage moves if you run HP fire or ice- Fire Types, ice-steels, fire- Dragons and fire types
    ground-flying types specially Dragonite HP rock- steels
    It depends on your team if you are using HP fire you should use a good dragon counter like mamoswine and a good fire type counter too.
    -Sleep Powder should be used in most sets cause it is amazing.
    -Giga Drain is released with chlorophyll and should be always used over energy ball.
    -Great defensive typing can't be toxic poisoned and absorbs toxic spikes, but weak to some common moves like fire and ice.
    -Sun is a blessing but it also makes venusaur extreamly weak to fire.
    -Solar beam is mosly risky but you might use it if you have dugtrio or another pokemon with sunny day.


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  12. #37

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    Ah, Venosaur, the one grass starter I never had.

    Sub
    Leech seed
    Giga drain
    Hp ice/ fire/ Toxic/ sleep powder

    But one thing I do know about this guy- never can fully get out of old habits. Subseed is a classic thing for Venosaur, since Gen I. But with Chlorophyll, he has the speed he didn't have for the last two generations. And speed is what made it out-classed for him. Sceptile, in that amount of time was better. But no more. Hp are for the obvious types he can do too well against, toxic for more action, and sleep powder... To make a nightmare of a counter, (no pun intended) into a helpless sleeping baby.

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  13. #38
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    Dinasaur:
    Venusaur@Black Sludge
    Ablility:Chlorophyll
    Nature:Bold
    Ev´s:252HP/252Def./4Sp.Def
    Moves:
    ~Giga Drain
    ~Toxic
    ~Leech Seed
    ~Amnesia

    Giga drain is the main move, it has STAB and recovers HP.Toxic is for annoy the opponent.Amnesia is for raise the Sp. Def. because he has got Bold nature(+def) and he has max Def.Leech seed is for recover hP every turn or force the switch.

  14. #39
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    Idk what the general consensus is, but evolite ivysaur seems like it would be better suited for bulkier roles...stat wise, ivysaur is only 20 points below venusaur in every stat

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    Lacking Leftovers makes Ivysaur a worse Venusaur. Also it doesn't really take hits any better, at least not enough to validate losing Leftovers.

    It has worse Special Attack and Speed too.


    Edit: Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur :(

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Lacking Leftovers makes Ivysaur a worse Venusaur. Also it doesn't really take hits any better, at least not enough to validate losing Leftovers.

    It has worse Special Attack and Speed too.


    Edit: Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur
    Well although being the first fully evolved pokemon in the pokedex it have very few viable sets so not much to say

    We;; it have 2 moves that show on most sets sleep powder and growth..

    I don't know if it was posted but.. something out of the box

    @choice specs
    252 sp.attack, 252 speed, 4 defense
    Modest
    Chlorophyll
    -Sludge Bomb
    -Giga Drain
    -Solar Beam
    -HP fire

    Sadly chlorophyll Venusar doesn't have access to leaf Storm but if ever recived leaf storm will be beter than solar beam it is a sun specs user, the good part over the growth variant is lack of set up move so it can just strike a strong STAB with lots of power since it have not so great special or physical coverage and earthquake isn't a good option..
    so Sludge Bomb is a STAB it can hit everything grass can't hit effectively except steel and poison. there HP fire comes (heatran heatran heatran.. ok we have heatran put a counter to him, ok?) Solar beam is good when the sun rises and other weather starters had fainted Giga Drain is a reliable Stab to beat some other weathers.

    The good thing about Grass and fire coverage is that it hit all other weather inducers so politoed will likely not switch.


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    Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.
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  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur
    Maybe because people like Charizard and Blastoise, though both of them are in UU iirc...
    I claim Flygon, the super awesome Dragon

  18. #43
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    I an idea for a pun: I am the 1% (most people in gen 1 didn't take bulbasaur )
    Last edited by Ilan; 7th September 2012 at 8:59 PM.


    Quote Originally Posted by Professor Oak
    Only two things are infinite, the universe and the amount of zubat in caves, and I'm not sure about the former.
    Shortcut to damage calculator

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArcanusX View Post
    Maybe because people like Charizard and Blastoise, though both of them are in UU iirc...
    Actually Charizard is NU

    @Ilan Yeah it hurts, maybe Chlorophyll was given to get payback on the Bulbasaur haters.


  20. #45
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    Lol Bulbasaur was my starter


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    Quote Originally Posted by Duranteater View Post
    Actually Charizard is NU

    @Ilan Yeah it hurts, maybe Chlorophyll was given to get payback on the Bulbasaur haters.
    You can't have a 4x Stealth Rock weakness without being punished, though certain Pokémon are really good even with that problemo.

    Now, some bad puns for Venusaur
    Chlorophyll payback time!
    Bulbasaur, Charmander or Squirtle? I choose Chlorophyll!
    Chlorophyll, the reason Charizard and Blastoise are too mainstream!
    I claim Flygon, the super awesome Dragon

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Lacking Leftovers makes Ivysaur a worse Venusaur. Also it doesn't really take hits any better, at least not enough to validate losing Leftovers.

    It has worse Special Attack and Speed too.


    Edit: Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur
    I find that hard to believe...with eviolite, ivysaur's nature-neutral defensive stats jump up to 324 HP/~327 Defense/~387 Sp. Def.
    In addition to that, ivysaur has access to 3 forms of recovery: Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Leech Seed. Ivysaur's speed stat may cap at 219 or 240 based on nature, but it also can abuse chlorophyll, thus doubling its speed into, at least, 438...sure ivysaur doesn't get leftovers, and it's even more weather dependant than venusaur (if that's even possible), but i see merits to using it

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Takeo View Post
    Lol Bulbasaur was my starter
    It's like Turtwig, both were the most underappreciated starter of their respective generation yet there are those who were smart to pick it.


  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by MetalCrow View Post
    I find that hard to believe...with eviolite, ivysaur's nature-neutral defensive stats jump up to 324 HP/~327 Defense/~387 Sp. Def.
    In addition to that, ivysaur has access to 3 forms of recovery: Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Leech Seed. Ivysaur's speed stat may cap at 219 or 240 based on nature, but it also can abuse chlorophyll, thus doubling its speed into, at least, 438...sure ivysaur doesn't get leftovers, and it's even more weather dependant than venusaur (if that's even possible), but i see merits to using it
    Ivysaur takes hit about 25% better than Venusaur but at the cost of 6.25% of your HP every turn. Leftovers means that over a full game Venusaur will probably survive more hits. It also is ENORMOUSLY helpful in Subseeding.

    Oh, and besides defenses Venusaur is better at everything else.

  25. #50
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    I've been having fun with mixed lately.

    Venusaur @ Life Orb
    Naive
    Chlorophyll
    4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Speed
    Growth
    Giga Drain
    Sludge Bomb
    Earthquake

    It's fun to troll Heatran switchins as you Growth to OHKO them with EQ. Pack Mamo with this. And possibly something to eliminate Ferro.


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