Community POTW #88

[Ilan]

Lacking Leftovers makes Ivysaur a worse Venusaur. Also it doesn't really take hits any better, at least not enough to validate losing Leftovers.

It has worse Special Attack and Speed too.


Edit: Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur

Well although being the first fully evolved pokemon in the pokedex it have very few viable sets so not much to say

We;; it have 2 moves that show on most sets sleep powder and growth..

I don't know if it was posted but.. something out of the box

@choice specs
252 sp.attack, 252 speed, 4 defense
Modest
Chlorophyll
-Sludge Bomb
-Giga Drain
-Solar Beam
-HP fire

Sadly chlorophyll Venusar doesn't have access to leaf Storm but if ever recived leaf storm will be beter than solar beam it is a sun specs user, the good part over the growth variant is lack of set up move so it can just strike a strong STAB with lots of power since it have not so great special or physical coverage and earthquake isn't a good option..
so Sludge Bomb is a STAB it can hit everything grass can't hit effectively except steel and poison. there HP fire comes (heatran heatran heatran.. ok we have heatran put a counter to him, ok?) Solar beam is good when the sun rises and other weather starters had fainted Giga Drain is a reliable Stab to beat some other weathers.

The good thing about Grass and fire coverage is that it hit all other weather inducers so politoed will likely not switch.

[Star Champion AJ]

Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur

Maybe because people like Charizard and Blastoise, though both of them are in UU iirc...

[Ilan]

I an idea for a pun: I am the 1% (most people in gen 1 didn't take bulbasaur )

[YourPermanentRecord631]

Maybe because people like Charizard and Blastoise, though both of them are in UU iirc...

Actually Charizard is NU

@Ilan Yeah it hurts, maybe Chlorophyll was given to get payback on the Bulbasaur haters.

[Takeo]

Lol Bulbasaur was my starter

[Star Champion AJ]

Actually Charizard is NU

@Ilan Yeah it hurts, maybe Chlorophyll was given to get payback on the Bulbasaur haters.

You can't have a 4x Stealth Rock weakness without being punished, though certain Pokémon are really good even with that problemo.

Now, some bad puns for Venusaur
Chlorophyll payback time!
Bulbasaur, Charmander or Squirtle? I choose Chlorophyll!
Chlorophyll, the reason Charizard and Blastoise are too mainstream!

[MetalCrow]

Lacking Leftovers makes Ivysaur a worse Venusaur. Also it doesn't really take hits any better, at least not enough to validate losing Leftovers.

It has worse Special Attack and Speed too.


Edit: Only two pages? No one loves Venusaur

I find that hard to believe...with eviolite, ivysaur's nature-neutral defensive stats jump up to 324 HP/~327 Defense/~387 Sp. Def.
In addition to that, ivysaur has access to 3 forms of recovery: Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Leech Seed. Ivysaur's speed stat may cap at 219 or 240 based on nature, but it also can abuse chlorophyll, thus doubling its speed into, at least, 438...sure ivysaur doesn't get leftovers, and it's even more weather dependant than venusaur (if that's even possible), but i see merits to using it

[YourPermanentRecord631]

Lol Bulbasaur was my starter

It's like Turtwig, both were the most underappreciated starter of their respective generation yet there are those who were smart to pick it.

[Blue Harvest]

I find that hard to believe...with eviolite, ivysaur's nature-neutral defensive stats jump up to 324 HP/~327 Defense/~387 Sp. Def.
In addition to that, ivysaur has access to 3 forms of recovery: Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Leech Seed. Ivysaur's speed stat may cap at 219 or 240 based on nature, but it also can abuse chlorophyll, thus doubling its speed into, at least, 438...sure ivysaur doesn't get leftovers, and it's even more weather dependant than venusaur (if that's even possible), but i see merits to using it

Ivysaur takes hit about 25% better than Venusaur but at the cost of 6.25% of your HP every turn. Leftovers means that over a full game Venusaur will probably survive more hits. It also is ENORMOUSLY helpful in Subseeding.

Oh, and besides defenses Venusaur is better at everything else.

[Vandslaux]

I've been having fun with mixed lately.

Venusaur @ Life Orb
Naive
Chlorophyll
4 Atk/252 SpA/252 Speed
Growth
Giga Drain
Sludge Bomb
Earthquake

It's fun to troll Heatran switchins as you Growth to OHKO them with EQ. Pack Mamo with this. And possibly something to eliminate Ferro.

[jesusfreak94]

I find that hard to believe...with eviolite, ivysaur's nature-neutral defensive stats jump up to 324 HP/~327 Defense/~387 Sp. Def.
In addition to that, ivysaur has access to 3 forms of recovery: Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Leech Seed. Ivysaur's speed stat may cap at 219 or 240 based on nature, but it also can abuse chlorophyll, thus doubling its speed into, at least, 438...sure ivysaur doesn't get leftovers, and it's even more weather dependant than venusaur (if that's even possible), but i see merits to using it

But she is right. You could excuse Leftovers for the bulk of the Eviolite, since it does give Ivysaur more immediate bulk. Unfortunately, there's still the fact that if you're running a defensive set (which is the only reason conceivable to use Ivysaur in the first place), you have to run significant speed investment just to outpace the unboosted metagame. In fact, if Ivysaur and Venusaur were to both be EV'd to outspeed base 130s in the Sun with the rest in HP and SpD, Venusaur would have about 87% of Ivysaur's bulk, about 93% factoring in the added "bulk" from Leftovers, and all with a greater resistance to passive damage and the ability to take advantage of SubSeed far more effectively. Not only that, but Venusaur can at least be somewhat of an offensive presence even without much investment. Ivysaur's uninvested base 80 SpA and 62 Atk stats aren't going to be doing much of that.

When you look at it, SubSeed is honestly the only defensive set that either should be running, and the fact is that you don't need a lot of bulk to SubSeed. The whole point of the strategy is to avoid the opponent's attacks through Sub and Protect while constantly healing yourself with Leech Seed and Leftovers. Even Whimsicott, frail as it is, is notorious as a SubSeeder. So the added bulk of Ivysaur wouldn't really come in handy in those situations.

[Takeo]

I find that hard to believe...with eviolite, ivysaur's nature-neutral defensive stats jump up to 324 HP/~327 Defense/~387 Sp. Def.
In addition to that, ivysaur has access to 3 forms of recovery: Giga Drain, Synthesis, and Leech Seed. Ivysaur's speed stat may cap at 219 or 240 based on nature, but it also can abuse chlorophyll, thus doubling its speed into, at least, 438...sure ivysaur doesn't get leftovers, and it's even more weather dependant than venusaur (if that's even possible), but i see merits to using it

Even if you run Max Hp and Max Sp Def Ivysaur will get 60 / 103 / 145 Defenses. Venusaur is better overall defensively because of Leftovers but if you want to use Ivysaur he could make a decent switch in to bulky Water types.. maybe. Its still going to be slower than most things. Either go fully defensive or if you want Speed use Venusaur. No speed Chlorophyll Ivysaur will outrun Jolly Lucario, most Zapdos / Jirachi and Adamant Salamence. It hits 312 speed so here you can see what it will outrun.

How do I know this?, because before I became the luckiest player on Serebii I was a noob that asked BH about whether or not I should use a Evolite set.

It's like Turtwig, both were the most underappreciated starter of their respective generation yet there are those who were smart to pick it.

Except Turtwig was complete crap, it and its evolutions weren't even cute or a badass.

[KingTorterraXIV]

Except Turtwig was complete crap, it and its evolutions weren't even cute or a badass.

Takeo I will destroy you D:<

[YourPermanentRecord631]

Takeo I will destroy you D:<

I know that feel......

If only Leaf Storm was compatible with Chlorophyll, it would help Venasur deliver more power.

[Blue Harvest]

I know that feel......

Me too. I think we all want to destroy Takeo a little :(

[MetalCrow]

Even if you run Max Hp and Max Sp Def Ivysaur will get 60 / 103 / 145 Defenses. Venusaur is better overall defensively because of Leftovers but if you want to use Ivysaur he could make a decent switch in to bulky Water types.. maybe. Its still going to be slower than most things. Either go fully defensive or if you want Speed use Venusaur. No speed Chlorophyll Ivysaur will outrun Jolly Lucario, most Zapdos / Jirachi and Adamant Salamence. It hits 312 speed so here you can see what it will outrun.

How do I know this?, because before I became the luckiest player on Serebii I was a noob that asked BH about whether or not I should use a Evolite set.


Except Turtwig was complete crap, it and its evolutions weren't even cute or a badass.

Well, idk if i should take this in the humor it seems to be intended, or you're calling me a noob...so, imma refuse the latter with a poor excuse about how long it's been since i've played competetively...scratch that, how long its been since i've touched anything pokemon related, other than the potw....plus, i'm not all that fond of grass types, so i don't exactly have perfect knowledge on it all...now, if you'll excuse me, i'll go sit in the corner and count the bumps on the wall

[KingTorterraXIV]

Well, idk if i should take this in the humor it seems to be intended, or you're calling me a noob...so, imma refuse the latter with a poor excuse about how long it's been since i've played competetively...scratch that, how long its been since i've touched anything pokemon related, other than the potw....plus, i'm not all that fond of grass types, so i don't exactly have perfect knowledge on it all...now, if you'll excuse me, i'll go sit in the corner and count the bumps on the wall

[Ilan]

Well if ivisaur have that much bulk why not use it in NU? it could work better there with that bulk and 80 SP.A isn't that horrible there.. I would still use vileplume though..

[YourPermanentRecord631]

We should honor Bulbapedia by using it as the title for the Bulbasaur LC section!

[KingTorterraXIV]

We should honor Bulbapedia by using it as the title for the Bulbasaur LC section!

I guess, but Bulbasaur sucks really bad