Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

[Silver Soul]

Obama made many mistakes, but this one they lied, attempted to cover up, and worst of all ignored all the warnings and requests.

So has Bush. Your point?

No not really, he funded the resistance against the Soviet Union by Afghan locals, there was no Taliban at the time. Now granted we left Afghanistan alone afterwards and allowed a power vaccum to occur, but to compare that to this incident is insane.

That's the problem. You are not looking at this in a long-term view.

[BigLutz]

So has Bush. Your point?

Any specific thing you wish to compare it to?

That's the problem. You are not looking at this in a long-term view.

Really? Who could predict that the next few Presidents would ignore Afghanistan and allow a power vaccum to form, or that such a Government that formed would eventually ally themselves with a terrorist villain who had not even risen to power yet, and would eventually be sent back to Afghanistan after Clinton refused to take custody of him.

[Silver Soul]

Any specific thing you wish to compare it to?

Maybe oh I don't know, ignoring the warnings of the 9/11 attacks?!

Really? Who could predict that the next few Presidents would ignore Afghanistan and allow a power vaccum to form, or that such a Government that formed would eventually ally themselves with a terrorist villain who had not even risen to power yet, and would eventually be sent back to Afghanistan after Clinton refused to take custody of him.

Or who could predict that two wars in the Middle East would raise the deficit and many lives lost due to chaos?

[marioguy]

Although not directly related, John Stewart and Bill O'Reilly had a debate on Saturday that covered some pretty important politics. Here's the full video. I'll probably have to update the link when that version gets deleted.

[BigLutz]

Maybe oh I don't know, ignoring the warnings of the 9/11 attacks?!

That largely happened in a pre terrorism mindset, you cannot equate that to Obama ignoring the warnings here in Libya. Furthermore it does not reach the bar I set, in that the Libya attack they lied, covered up, ignored the warnings, and ignored requests by those on the ground for help. Granted Bush ignored the warnings ( Despite the fact that there was largely nothing he could have done to stop it ) you do not rise to the level of lying, covering up, and 'ignoring warnings on the ground for help' when it comes to the 9/11 attacks. Try again.

Or who could predict that two wars in the Middle East would raise the deficit and many lives lost due to chaos?

And may I ask what does that have to do with the subject of Libya? It seems like you are desperately scrambling to defend Obama

[Brutaka]

( Despite the fact that there was largely nothing he could have done to stop it )

Except, I dunno, evacuate the buildings and those surrounding it...? I'm not sure how much info he had, but he could have done something. Warn the country, I dunno.

It seems like you are desperately scrambling to defend Obama

I hate these arguments. They're childish and to be honest, not even good arguments. More insults that debates really. No offense to you, but seriously.

[TheWatersGreatGuardian]

Can't wait till the VP debate. Ryan against Biden? That is going to be hilarious. Ryan is going to eat Biden

[BigLutz]

Except, I dunno, evacuate the buildings and those surrounding it...? I'm not sure how much info he had, but he could have done something. Warn the country, I dunno.

A: They had no idea it was going to be the World Trade Center

B: They honestly believed the attack would happen on July 4th, when that came and went they believed they were in the clear. And honestly going out and warning the country would have done what exactly? Create alot of hysteria, probably grounded the airline industry to a halt, for something they largely could not defend against.

[Brutaka]

Can't wait till the VP debate. Ryan against Biden? That is going to be hilarious. Ryan is going to eat Biden

I cant wait for it either. The fact checkers are going to go insane of Ryan's arguments, just you wait.

[BigLutz]

I cant wait for it either. The fact checkers are going to go insane of Ryan's arguments, just you wait.

I dont know about that Ryan is usually a budget wok with a very good grasp of the numbers, probably even more so than the fact checkers. Its largely Joe Biden that tends to make up crap on the spot, including and not limited to plagiarizing in previous debates.

[Brutaka]

I dont know about that Ryan is usually a budget wok with a very good grasp of the numbers, probably even more so than the fact checkers. Its largely Joe Biden that tends to make up crap on the spot, including and not limited to plagiarizing in previous debates.

The problem is that Ryan lies about things people can look up on the internet. Like his marathon times. It's not important really, but it says something about integrity.

[BigLutz]

The problem is that Ryan lies about things people can look up on the internet. Like his marathon times. It's not important really, but it says something about integrity.

Yes and Obama lies about Romney's budget. Thing is no one cares about some one's marathon times, things like some one's budget, or with Biden, completely copying some one else's history and speech, is a much larger problem.

[Coyote_Dynamo]

I am voting for Obama.

[Brutaka]

Yes and Obama lies about Romney's budget. Thing is no one cares about some one's marathon times, things like some one's budget, or with Biden, completely copying some one else's history and speech, is a much larger problem.

During the debate, Obama didn't lie, him and along with everyone else thoroughly believed that was his plan, because of the way Romney was preaching it beforehand. Ryan had even said that the plans were 20% tax cuts across the board. That would indeed cost 5 trillion. It isn't Obama's fault that suddenly Romney decided to switch gears on him.

And I know it doesn't matter, but if he's lying about something small like that, he's most likely lying about bigger things as well, and obvious things at that.

[BigLutz]

During the debate, Obama didn't lie, him and along with everyone else thoroughly believed that was his plan, because of the way Romney was preaching it beforehand. Ryan had even said that the plans were 20% tax cuts across the board. That would indeed cost 5 trillion. It isn't Obama's fault that suddenly Romney decided to switch gears on him.

Umm no, even the person who reviewed Romney's budget who Obama is using as a source, has said Obama is lying.

"I can’t tell exactly how the Obama campaign reached that characterization of my work. It might be that they assume that Governor Romney wants to keep the taxes from the Affordable Care Act in place, despite the fact that the Governor has called for its complete repeal. The main conclusion of my study is that under plausible assumptions, a proposal along the lines suggested by Governor Romney can both be revenue neutral and keep the net tax burden on taxpayers with incomes above $200,000 about the same. That is, an increase in the tax burden on lower and middle income individuals is not required in order to make the overall plan revenue neutral. "

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/...an_653917.html

And as mentioned when CNN fact checked it, they found Obama to be lying, and even Obama's own campaign staff admitted it was a lie

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q0g8COdYcU0

And I know it doesn't matter, but if he's lying about something small like that, he's most likely lying about bigger things as well, and obvious things at that.

By that logic, because Biden lied in the past with plagiarism, and Obama lied about big things like Romney's budget, both are probably lying about even bigger things as well!

[Brutaka]

Umm no, even the person who reviewed Romney's budget who Obama is using as a source, has said Obama is lying.

I guess Ryan was lying about his own mate's plan as well.

By that logic, because Biden lied in the past with plagiarism, and Obama lied about big things like Romney's budget, both are probably lying about even bigger things as well!

Romney/Obama/Ryan/Biden, they are liars as far I'm concerned. But Romney's sugar-coated plans probably sound more appealing to the populous so I suppose it matters little.

[BigLutz]

I guess Ryan was lying about his own mate's plan as well.

Show me where Ryan said that Romney's plan would raise taxes on the Middle Class?

Romney/Obama/Ryan/Biden, they are liars as far I'm concerned. But Romney's sugar-coated plans probably sound more appealing to the populous so I suppose it matters little.

And yet one could say Obama lies about the big things, from troop deaths to his opponent's plans, on the other hand you have Ryan lying about... a marathon time. Wanna guess which the public cares more about?

[Brutaka]

Show me where Ryan said that Romney's plan would raise taxes on the Middle Class?

I didn't say that. I said Ryan said that they would cut taxes by 20%. That break would cost 5 trillion. There aren't enough deductions to cover that. Romney said he wouldn't do such a thing. Conflicting ideas much?

And yet one could say Obama lies about the big things, from troop deaths to his plans, on the other hand you have Ryan lying about... a marathon time. Wanna guess which the public cares more about?

Im 100% Romney/Ryan are lying about more than marathon times. All of them are liars, I don't care what you believe, they all lie about big things and small things alike.

[BigLutz]

I didn't say that. I said Ryan said that they would cut taxes by 20%. That break would cost 5 trillion. There aren't enough deductions to cover that. Romney said he wouldn't do such a thing. Conflicting ideas much?

As I said both CNN and the Economist Obama cited provide proof that they can cut 5 trillion dollars and still make it revenue neutral, if you wish to go to the first link the math is there to prove it.

Im 100% Romney/Ryan are lying about more than marathon times. All of them are liars, I don't care what you believe, they all lie about big things and small things alike.

And yet show me proof of Romney or Ryan lying about something as large as the Libyan Embassy attacks like Obama's team did.

[Brutaka]

And yet show me proof of Romney or Ryan lying about something as large as the Libyan Embassy attacks like Obama's team did.

You ask of the impossible; Romney hasn't done anything like that since hasn't had the chance. He isn't president, he couldn't do something that massive.
Still, is Etch-a-Sketching considered dishonest?
http://www.businessweek.com/articles...-etch-a-sketch
http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinio...3a7_story.html
And in that second article:
'Once again, Romney showed that his campaign will launch attacks with little regard for their veracity. “Unlike President Obama,” he said, “I will not raise taxes on the middle class.” While the definition of the “middle class” is flexible, Obama has in fact asked Congress to retain current tax rates for families earning less than $250,000 a year.

“I will begin my presidency with a jobs tour,” Romney also said. “President Obama began with an apology tour.” There was no apology tour. And Romney suggested that Republicans had been initially eager to work with the president, when in fact the party was determined from the beginning to oppose virtually all of Obama’s initiatives.'

Thar be two lies by Romney right there.