View Poll Results: Do you support Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?

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  • Mitt Romney

    86 27.22%
  • Barack Obama

    230 72.78%
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Thread: Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

  1. #801
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    More like, doing what every smart Presidential candidate will do.
    Oh yes. Because it worked for Romney last time he's running for President. You can only etch a sketch so much.

    Cutting Planned Parenthood would not hurt abortion as a whole, that is unless you wish to make the argument that Planned Parenthood will only do abortions.

    As for Roe v Wade, selecting Supreme Court Judges who support rightfully overturn it, is not pushing for legislation.
    Romney said he may not want to push them but the Congressional Republicans are a different story.

    We already covered this did we not?
    Yes but Romney is still repeating what he said about it and wants it to die down. If he's truly sorry, then there wouldn't haven't been signs like these in the fundraisers which said no video and audio recording allowed.

    http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012..._video_ba.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Oh yes. Because it worked for Romney last time he's running for President. You can only etch a sketch so much.
    Romney did not make it to the nomination the last time. And honestly are you telling me that you are denying one of the most fundamental things of Presidential Politics? That they move to the center after the nomination.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Romney said he may not want to push them but the Congressional Republicans are a different story.
    Your argument was about Romney... Argument Failed

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Yes but Romney is still repeating what he said about it and wants it to die down.
    Provide proof he is still using that line?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    If he's truly sorry, then there wouldn't haven't been signs like these in the fundraisers which said no video and audio recording allowed.

    http://blogs.suntimes.com/sweet/2012..._video_ba.html
    I am surprised those signs were not there before. Infact I would think they already are, as such events with high profile candidates usually do not allow filming or audio.

  3. #803
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cyanfoxes View Post
    I favor Obama, mainly because I really don't like Romney.
    If that is all you are going on, don't vote.

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    If that is all you are going on, don't vote.
    Why? The President doesn't have much power anymore, it's all Congress, really. The president can give them ideas for laws, but in the end, its all the Congress.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    Why? The President doesn't have much power anymore, it's all Congress, really. The president can give them ideas for laws, but in the end, its all the Congress.
    The President does not have any power because Obama largely went about governing poorly, he did not delegate with Congress what he wanted early on, thus giving Pelosi and Reed all the power when it came to Health Care and the Stimulus. And by the time he realized he needed to change course, he became a lame duck President with the Republican take over and his failure to craft a deal during the debt ceiling crisis. The reason the Presidency does not have any power this term is not because of Congress, its merely because the President himself was too inexperienced and too hands off to actually use it until he lost it.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The President does not have any power because Obama largely went about governing poorly, he did not delegate with Congress what he wanted early on, thus giving Pelosi and Reed all the power when it came to Health Care and the Stimulus. And by the time he realized he needed to change course, he became a lame duck President with the Republican take over and his failure to craft a deal during the debt ceiling crisis. The reason the Presidency does not have any power this term is not because of Congress, its merely because the President himself was too inexperienced and too hands off to actually use it until he lost it.
    Don't go blaming Congress's power on Obama, that's bull. The president had diminished power far before Obama was elected.
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  7. #807
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Romney did not make it to the nomination the last time. And honestly are you telling me that you are denying one of the most fundamental things of Presidential Politics? That they move to the center after the nomination.
    And that will backfire on Romney considering that there are Republicans that will expect him to keep his word.

    Your argument was about Romney... Argument Failed
    No actually. Let's ask Grover Norquist about that since Romney signed the No Tax Pledge. He did say that Romney will do as told.

    http://www.thedailybeast.com/article...eech-cpac.html

    Provide proof he is still using that line?
    He said it on Fox News and then CNN. If he was truly sorry for his comments on the 47 percent, it would have been done the day AFTER the videos were leaked.

    I am surprised those signs were not there before. Infact I would think they already are, as such events with high profile candidates usually do not allow filming or audio.
    Wow... try harder.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    Don't go blaming Congress's power on Obama, that's bull. The president had diminished power far before Obama was elected.
    Lets look at the past history

    Patriot Act: Bush worked with Congress to pass the legislation and get the necessary tools he and his advisers believed would be needed to combat terrorism

    Stem Cell Research: Bush worked with Congress to find a bi partisan resolution

    Iraq War Resolution: Bush worked with Congress to get the necessary time table and requirements needed for the Iraq War

    No Child Left Behind: Bush worked with Senator Kennedy to create a bi partisan school reform law

    Social Security Reform: Bush worked with the Republican Leadership in Congress to try and reform Social Security

    Now lets look at Obama

    Stimulus: Obama took a largely hands off approach letting Congress write and pass the Stimulus, thus creating a good amount of the waste and fraud in it

    Health Care Reform: Obama took a hands off approach until the health care reform bill appeared to be stuck, he then made a speech where he laid out what he wanted in his plan "The You Lie" comment happens here. Obama's plan is never put forth, and Obama is stuck saying "Just pass me something, anything, for me to sign" I am paraphrasing that. And ends up signing the bill passed by Congress

    Cap and Trade: Obama lets the Democratic House take control over this, and it never makes it to the Senate

    Debt Ceiling Hike: Obama works with the Republican leadership and then renigs on the deal. The Republican Leadership finds that it is not worth dealing with Obama and in turn works with the Democratic Leadership to craft a deal, thus making Obama a Lame Duck President.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul
    And that will backfire on Romney considering that there are Republicans that will expect him to keep his word.
    I believe Republicans are largely adults and know what happens in terms of Presidential Politics.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul
    No actually. Let's ask Grover Norquist about that since Romney signed the No Tax Pledge. He did say that Romney will do as told.
    And who is Grover Norquist? Is he a deep adviser to Romney? Is he some one that Romney has known and trusted and confided in for decades? No. He is some one who put out a tax pledge for them to sign, a tax pledge that would make him largely irrelevent if he came out and said that Romney would not keep his word.

    Not to mention the two have nothing in common, Romney can veto a tax bill, but going out and pushing for Abortion Reform and advocating for it takes alot more time and political capital.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul
    He said it on Fox News and then CNN. If he was truly sorry for his comments on the 47 percent, it would have been done the day AFTER the videos were leaked.
    Except that is not how politics works, he may feel truly sorry for it, but for a political campaign you wait for the most opportune time to release the statement. That is why the Obama Administration has the "Friday Night News Dump" where you drop all the bad news on Friday Night, so that when it is reported over the weekend, no one will be watching the news or paying attention. Here Romney's Campaign thought the best time to release the statement was after Obama being trounced in the debate.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul
    Wow... try harder.
    So.. .no response.

  9. #809
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Lets look at the past history

    Patriot Act: Bush worked with Congress to pass the legislation and get the necessary tools he and his advisers believed would be needed to combat terrorism

    Stem Cell Research: Bush worked with Congress to find a bi partisan resolution

    Iraq War Resolution: Bush worked with Congress to get the necessary time table and requirements needed for the Iraq War

    No Child Left Behind: Bush worked with Senator Kennedy to create a bi partisan school reform law

    Social Security Reform: Bush worked with the Republican Leadership in Congress to try and reform Social Security

    Now lets look at Obama

    Stimulus: Obama took a largely hands off approach letting Congress write and pass the Stimulus, thus creating a good amount of the waste and fraud in it

    Health Care Reform: Obama took a hands off approach until the health care reform bill appeared to be stuck, he then made a speech where he laid out what he wanted in his plan "The You Lie" comment happens here. Obama's plan is never put forth, and Obama is stuck saying "Just pass me something, anything, for me to sign" I am paraphrasing that. And ends up signing the bill passed by Congress

    Cap and Trade: Obama lets the Democratic House take control over this, and it never makes it to the Senate

    Debt Ceiling Hike: Obama works with the Republican leadership and then renigs on the deal. The Republican Leadership finds that it is not worth dealing with Obama and in turn works with the Democratic Leadership to craft a deal, thus making Obama a Lame Duck President.
    You know what? I'm not even gonna use news articles to argue that. Someone needs to read the Constitution. Clearly, the outline the powers of the President. All the President can do is suggest laws. If Congress didn't approve of it, they don't have to approve it. The President can't do hardly anything on his own. All the President can do is veto a bill Congress wants, and even then that can be overridden.
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  10. #810
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    You know what? I'm not even gonna use news articles to argue that. Someone needs to read the Constitution. Clearly, the outline the powers of the President. All the President can do is suggest laws. If Congress didn't approve of it, they don't have to approve it. The President can't do hardly anything on his own. All the President can do is veto a bill Congress wants, and even then that can be overridden.
    Of which I do not deny, but look at what happened under President Bush when it came to bills that he wanted. He worked with Congress, worked with the leaders in Congress, and provided a voice and leadership in helping craft bills that he wanted. The President is supposed to be a leader, he is supposed to provide that kind of leadership.

    On the other hand look at President Obama's first two hurdles. He sat back and did not provide leadership or vision on the Stimulus, and what did we get? A mishmash of ideas, of each Congressman pulling it in 450 different directions, and in the end it lacked any real coherent form, and had way too much pork as each Congressman wanted their share. The same goes for Health Care Reform, you had three competing bills that were being fought over, no real traction getting them through, and in the end the President had to beg them to just pass something. That is not leadership.

    Finally lets look at what happened when President Obama decided to show some leadership, he brought Republicans in to work on a debt ceiling deal, he worked with them and hammered out a deal. That is leadership, that is what a President is supposed to do. And then what happened? Like a novice he overplayed his hand and tossed away the deal that had been worked on. The Republicans left the table and decided that President Obama was not serious after that.

    At the end of the day what Obama lacked his first two years was being a strong executive, leading the country by giving his vision to Congress on bills that should be passed. Especially since he was the leader of a party that had largely a super majority in Congress that should be easy for him. He instead punted.

  11. #811
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    Even still, the President is more or less a figurehead. I wont go as far as comparing it to the Queen of England, but you get the idea. Congress can do all most whatever they want(as long as a majority exists). So while a President has to look like he leads, all is good. It's really just Congress pulling every string.

    Anyways, I believe all political fights are 100% pointless, no one wins. I've talked to Republicans like you, who think Romney is god's gift to the USA, and I've talked to Democrats who think he's a total sh*thead.

    In fact, the only reason I got into this was cuz I'm an opinionated person who likes to argue.
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  12. #812
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    Even still, the President is more or less a figurehead. I wont go as far as comparing it to the Queen of England, but you get the idea. Congress can do all most whatever they want(as long as a majority exists). So while a President has to look like he leads, all is good. It's really just Congress pulling every string.
    Not really, as leader of this country with veto power and the ability to speak to tens of millions of Americans when ever he wishes, not to mention the political capital garnered by the President's election. The President has substantial amount of power, especially when it comes to members of his own party who wish to have that President campaign for them come election time. The President is leader of his country and his political party, that in and of itself amounts to ALOT of power.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    In fact, the only reason I got into this was cuz I'm an opinionated person who likes to argue.
    Well it is good to have you around and I do honestly mean that
    Last edited by BigLutz; 11th October 2012 at 3:15 AM.

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    Executive branch elected positions have more power than what is strictly assigned to them. They aren't just a leader of a branch of government (which in and of itself, has a lot of power to regulate and appoint people to boards and committees which don't need legislative approval, or in most cases, the approval doesn't take too much effort). They are an extremely influential person that weirlds a lot of power, and are also the defacto leader of their political party at that level of government. IE a Dem Governor isn't just Governor of the State of Whatever. He's also likely the leading Democratic leader and all of the Dem party movers and shakers will be connected to him.

    Anyway, on another note, this whole Libya thing has completely blown a hole in what has overall been a decent foreign policy from the perspective of an average viewer/citizen.

    http://youtu.be/A3ldyGsZ1Io

    Pat Smith, the mother of Sean Smith who was slain in Libya on Sept 11 2012, says she has been directly lied to by President Obama, Vice President Biden, and Susan Rice. She says they have given her conflicting answers and are now freezing her out. She says she doesn't even know what the cause of death of her own son is.

    For Internet fanatics out there, Sean Smith was also known as Vilerat. He was a moderator on the Something Awful Forums of the Debate&Discussion (D&D) section.
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    Mitt Romney: People Don't 'Die In Their Apartment Because They Don't Have Insurance'

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1957419.html

    Oh boy...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Mitt Romney: People Don't 'Die In Their Apartment Because They Don't Have Insurance'

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_1957419.html

    Oh boy...
    Is it not true? Did we not have safety nets from Medicaid before Obamacare? Did we not have clinics, city run hospitals, and the open door policy in the emergency room? Or would you have us believe that people were just dying in the streets, or the apartments before Obamacare happened.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Is it not true? Did we not have safety nets from Medicaid before Obamacare? Did we not have clinics, city run hospitals, and the open door policy in the emergency room? Or would you have us believe that people were just dying in the streets, or the apartments before Obamacare happened.
    Did you read the whole article even. "People don't just die in their apartments" as a quote by Romney wasn't the overall point that was trying to be made.

    -While it's difficult to tell how many people die each year from lack of health insurance, one study, from a health care advocacy group, puts the number at 26,000 deaths per year.
    -Roughly 4 in 25 Americans, or nearly 49 million Americans, had no health insurance last year, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Repealing Obamacare would deny access to health insurance to about 30 million uninsured Americans who would have received it under health care reform.
    -Letting so many people go uninsured ultimately can cost both individuals and society. When people lack health insurance, their health worsens, and their health treatments become more expensive, research has found. People without health insurance also are in danger of facing massive medical bills, debt, and bankruptcy if they get sick or injured.
    -On top of that, society at large sometimes must pay for the uninsured through higher taxes and health care costs. The government often helps pay for unpaid emergency room bills. States and cities that run hospitals lose money when hospital bills go unpaid. And economists have found that hospitals sometimes charge higher prices for health care, and health insurance companies sometimes charge higher premiums, because the uninsured often are unable to pay for health care.
    Last edited by Cosmical El Amarna; 12th October 2012 at 3:39 AM.
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  17. #817
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    This debate is pathetic. Biden looks like a total fool. Can't stop laughing, and can't stop interrupting Ryan. Is he not taking this seriously?

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    This debate is pathetic. Biden looks like a total fool. Can't stop laughing, and can't stop interrupting Ryan. Is he not taking this seriously?
    He has a sense of humor. We all should.
    Anyways, Ryan has Obama's smirk and Biden is going after it as roughly as Romney did. Role swap, weird...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka View Post
    He has a sense of humor. We all should.
    Anyways, Ryan has Obama's smirk and Biden is going after it as roughly as Romney did. Role swap, weird...
    Laughing at your opponent is not having a sense of humor. It's extremely rude, is what it is, not to mention it makes it look like he doesn't have anything substantial to respond with. Romney and Ryan haven't done anything of the sort, nor did Obama.

    Also, Romney was only marginally more of a rude jackass than Obama was. Biden alone has been way way worse than the both of them put together. Especially considering that Ryan has been extremely cordial in comparison to all of them.

    I'd always heard about him, but I'd never actually watched Biden speak live. He really is a gigantic moron, though.

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    Oh bother, Ryan pulled the same skirting around the details stunt he did back in the 20% tax cut interview. He did it again! On the same issue! On live TV! Mother of God, what he is he doing?? I don't like the guy at all, but come ON already!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    This debate is pathetic. Biden looks like a total fool. Can't stop laughing, and can't stop interrupting Ryan. Is he not taking this seriously?
    And ironically, Ryan came out as the fool. People like you forget that Biden is a far experienced debater and Senator.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    And ironically, Ryan came out as the fool. People like you forget that Biden is a far experienced debater and Senator.
    Its too bad nobody here doesn't have a bias, because I think you would jump off a cliff for the obama administration if they asked you too. Likewise, I could never support the fool that is in office right now.

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Cosmical Tel El Amarna View Post
    Did you read the whole article even. "People don't just die in their apartments" as a quote by Romney wasn't the overall point that was trying to be made.
    Well lets look at this

    "-While it's difficult to tell how many people die each year from lack of health insurance, one study, from a health care advocacy group, puts the number at 26,000 deaths per year."

    That as said is put out by a advocacy group, and makes you wonder if they would actually survive even with insurance.

    "-Roughly 4 in 25 Americans, or nearly 49 million Americans, had no health insurance last year, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Repealing Obamacare would deny access to health insurance to about 30 million uninsured Americans who would have received it under health care reform."

    And of those 30 million, it goes down to 20 million or less when you cut out those that can pay for insurance and refuse to get it.

    "-Letting so many people go uninsured ultimately can cost both individuals and society. When people lack health insurance, their health worsens, and their health treatments become more expensive, research has found. People without health insurance also are in danger of facing massive medical bills, debt, and bankruptcy if they get sick or injured."

    No doubt which is the reason we need to bring down the costs of premiums and make sure that health care is given at businesses, something that Obamacare does not really do.

    "-On top of that, society at large sometimes must pay for the uninsured through higher taxes and health care costs. The government often helps pay for unpaid emergency room bills. States and cities that run hospitals lose money when hospital bills go unpaid. And economists have found that hospitals sometimes charge higher prices for health care, and health insurance companies sometimes charge higher premiums, because the uninsured often are unable to pay for health care."

    That is also true, but one could say that far more of the hospital costs go to their own insurance for frivolous lawsuits.

    Quote Originally Posted by Brutaka
    He has a sense of humor. We all should.
    Anyways, Ryan has Obama's smirk and Biden is going after it as roughly as Romney did. Role swap, weird...
    Gotta agree with others, smirking and rude laughing is not having a sense of humor, and it really could damaging Biden.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    Its too bad nobody here doesn't have a bias, because I think you would jump off a cliff for the obama administration if they asked you too. Likewise, I could never support the fool that is in office right now.
    Oh sure. Support the etch-a-sketch vague "Job Creator".

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Well lets look at this

    "-While it's difficult to tell how many people die each year from lack of health insurance, one study, from a health care advocacy group, puts the number at 26,000 deaths per year."

    That as said is put out by a advocacy group, and makes you wonder if they would actually survive even with insurance.

    "-Roughly 4 in 25 Americans, or nearly 49 million Americans, had no health insurance last year, according to the U.S. Census Bureau. Repealing Obamacare would deny access to health insurance to about 30 million uninsured Americans who would have received it under health care reform."

    And of those 30 million, it goes down to 20 million or less when you cut out those that can pay for insurance and refuse to get it.

    "-Letting so many people go uninsured ultimately can cost both individuals and society. When people lack health insurance, their health worsens, and their health treatments become more expensive, research has found. People without health insurance also are in danger of facing massive medical bills, debt, and bankruptcy if they get sick or injured."

    No doubt which is the reason we need to bring down the costs of premiums and make sure that health care is given at businesses, something that Obamacare does not really do.

    "-On top of that, society at large sometimes must pay for the uninsured through higher taxes and health care costs. The government often helps pay for unpaid emergency room bills. States and cities that run hospitals lose money when hospital bills go unpaid. And economists have found that hospitals sometimes charge higher prices for health care, and health insurance companies sometimes charge higher premiums, because the uninsured often are unable to pay for health care."

    That is also true, but one could say that far more of the hospital costs go to their own insurance for frivolous lawsuits.



    Gotta agree with others, smirking and rude laughing is not having a sense of humor, and it really could damaging Biden.
    I never felt like Biden was debating. i felt like I was being lectured by him with all his gesturing and finger waving at the moderator.

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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