Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

[Bolt the Cat]

Yes it is better then decline.

8% is still kind of highish. I wouldn't get too excited about unemployment stagnating in that range.

You say we don't want Obamacare yet democrats totally slaughtered the republicans.

Obamacare wasn't the only issue in this election.

[ebilly99]

8% is still kind of highish. I wouldn't get too excited about unemployment stagnating in that range.



Obamacare wasn't the only issue in this election.

I agree that 7.9 is high, but it is getting better. True about Obama care but there are still quite a few who think it is a good idea.

[Gothitelle K]

You, Mourdock, and everyone else that believes that rape resulting in preganacy is good.

No one said that rape was good. I admit, the way he said it was unjust but all it was to say that he thinks that people should keep the baby even in rape and which I agree with him.

[ebilly99]

No one said that rape was good. I admit, the way he said it was unjust but all it was to say that he thinks that people should keep the baby even in rape and which I agree with him.

I mean really when are women going to understand that there opinion does not matter, and that men are more important then women. If a man wants you to have a baby and goes to the trouble to rape you, you better have his child.

[BigLutz]

But there was evidence that the right was shrinking.

Were they shrinking in 2010 when they had the biggest victory since the 1930s?

No becuase we don't have a problem with Legal Latinos, we have a problem with illegal ones. Also lets face it the problem today is to much to handle. It is only possible to change momentum by allowing more americans to join.

But that does not get rid of the illegal ones, unless you are proposing the immoral and unfair idea of amnesty.

I do not believe in God, and I don't think others should force morality down my throat. If I met a rape victim I would judge them for there deeds. I would tell them that the way they lived there life is more important then the way they were born.

That isn't what I said, would you go up to a person and say "God did not intend you to be born". As that is what you are arguing for.

Those who think that if God exist he cares

So a caring God only makes good things happen?

Yes it is better then decline.

So malaze and putting us in the position of possibly suffering a even worse decline is better?

You say we don't want Obamacare yet democrats totally slaughtered the republicans.

And when Obamacare was the central focus in 2010 the Republicans totally slaughtered the Democrats.

Um no, I support proping up the middle and poor class and forcing those that take advantage of the tax code to pay there fair share. I support reform in the tax and the government aid but do not support dropping it completely.

How well did that propping up do in early 2008 during the tax rebates given out to the middle and lower class? Oh that is right, they used the money to save and pay off debt, not stimulate the economy.

You, Mourdock, and everyone else that believes that rape resulting in preganacy is good.

I want you to find me the exact quote where I said "Rape resulting in pregnancy is good" or "Rape is good" EXACT QUOTE.

[I am Lu]

So a caring God only makes good things happen?

The problem lies in using God as an argument.

It's forcing religion into a political issue. Religion and politics are supposed to be separate. That's the whole point of separation of church and state. If we outlawed abortion on the basis that "God doesn't like it," then we would be living a theocracy and the possibility of what happened to Savita Halappanavar in Ireland could become real in the United States.

The idea that a woman who is a victim of a rape or whose life is endangered by a pregnancy should be forced to carry a baby to term doesn't resonate with most of modern America. That's why Republican politicians who made loony comments about redefining rape or abortion were not elected back.

See this.

[7 tyranitars]

By that argument if the Republicans win in 2014 they have no problem with their message, and if they win in 2016 it is the Democrats that have the massive message problem.

I don't expect the democrats to win 2016 in the first place, unless Obama pulls a Reagan/Bush Sr. Which has more to do with that it is hard for a party to win a new term after a president of their political colour finished both of his terms. Depending on the size of their defeat it could be a message problem or not.

So the Republicans should pander to the Latinos by ignoring the law like the Democrats? Do you realize how poorly that makes the Latinos look? But the thing is that being more in favor of the terribly unfair thing called Amnesty will not get you more Latino votes. 1986 Reagan gave 3 million people Amnesty, in 1988 George HW Bush did not win the Latino vote. In 2006 John McCain was one of the ones leading the charge on amnesty and immigration reform, in 2008 he failed to win the Latino vote.

Not just talking about latino vote because that isn't the only group where they suffered a loss.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain what Richard Mourdock said that was so wrong.

As said by Bolt the cat:

That God intended for people to be born through rape.

Which does not sound so fantastic to most people out there..

Or more realistically the public did not blame the incumbent for the economy being in the crapper.

Either that or the public thinks the economy is recovering perhaps it was even because they believed Romney wouldn't be a good way to fix the economy.

[BigLutz]

I don't expect the democrats to win 2016 in the first place, unless Obama pulls a Reagan/Bush Sr. Which has more to do with that it is hard for a party to win a new term after a president of their political colour finished both of his terms. Depending on the size of their defeat it could be a message problem or not.

Well you should also remember that the incumbent in the next election is... Joe Biden.

That God intended for people to be born through rape.

Which does not sound so fantastic to most people out there..

If you are some one who believes God creates all life which I would say most if not all Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in. Then how is that fantastic? A person cannot say "God creates all life, except the life born from rapes" if so then God does not create all life.

[ebilly99]

Were they shrinking in 2010 when they had the biggest victory since the 1930s?

Yes however the call to kick the bums out worked in favor to the GOP

But that does not get rid of the illegal ones, unless you are proposing the immoral and unfair idea of amnesty.

When more immigrants are allowed to become legal you can finally have the public support getting rid of the illegals.

That isn't what I said, would you go up to a person and say "God did not intend you to be born". As that is what you are arguing for.
[

i do not believe in god.

So a caring God only makes good things happen?

I Do not believe in god. Fine to get to the point, God is fairy tales to me.

So malaze and putting us in the position of possibly suffering a even worse decline is better?

A possible disaster is better then a real disaster. (A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush)

And when Obamacare was the central focus in 2010 the Republicans totally slaughtered the Democrats.

Yet when the last chance to stop it came they lost

How well did that propping up do in early 2008 during the tax rebates given out to the middle and lower class? Oh that is right, they used the money to save and pay off debt, not stimulate the economy.

So paying off debt is bad for economy. Saving is bad for economy? do you know how economy works. For every dollar americans put in a savings account it creates 10 bank dollars.

I want you to find me the exact quote where I said "Rape resulting in pregnancy is good" or "Rape is good" EXACT QUOTE.

In the case of legitimacy rape the body has ways to stop the pregnancy. TODD ATKINS MUCH

[BigLutz]

Yes however the call to kick the bums out worked in favor to the GOP

And the reason they called for "Kicking out the bums" is because they did not like Obamacare

When more immigrants are allowed to become legal you can finally have the public support getting rid of the illegals.

And how do you suppose we will find them or even get rid of them? Something like the Arizona style law?

i do not believe in god.

Then was not what I was saying, you do not have to believe in a God to tell a person that.

I Do not believe in god. Fine to get to the point, God is fairy tales to me.

Again not what I was saying.

A possible disaster is better then a real disaster. (A bird in the hand is worth 2 in the bush)

Unless the possible disaster is far worse.

Yet when the last chance to stop it came they lost

That isn't the point, the point is that the Democrats had their big Government policies in 2009 and the public roundly rejected them.

So paying off debt is bad for economy. Saving is bad for economy? do you know how economy works. For every dollar americans put in a savings account it creates 10 bank dollars.

And yet neither stimulates the economy.

In the case of legitimacy rape the body has ways to stop the pregnancy. TODD ATKINS MUCH

And that has what to do with what I am saying? Still waiting for that exact quote, still waiting....

[ebilly99]

And the reason they called for "Kicking out the bums" is because they did not like Obamacare

and yet the last chance to destroy it lead to a huge democrat win.

And how do you suppose we will find them or even get rid of them? Something like the Arizona style law?

Yes after it becomes easier to become american citizens. also a reward program for turning in illegals, such as tax credits.

Then was not what I was saying, you do not have to believe in a God to tell a person that.

Why would I say anything. Is a kid begging me to tell them if there life means anything. I support sentient computer freedom and you ask me if a care how one is born

Again not what I was saying.

Then please tell me what exactly you are saying.

Unless the possible disaster is far worse.

No possible disaster is never worth a now disaster. No one can stop all dangers, we must live in the present.

That isn't the point, the point is that the Democrats had their big Government policies in 2009 and the public roundly rejected them.

And the Gop was regected in 2012. what does that mean.

And yet neither stimulates the economy.

Not if banks refuse to loan out money.

And that has what to do with what I am saying? Still waiting for that exact quote, still waiting....

Exact quote where a republican supports rape, how about actions. They do speak louder then words. Like how Rick Perry wants to do away with the sex offenders list, meaning that those guilty of sex crimes get less then a slap on the wrist ???

[Bolt the Cat]

If you are some one who believes God creates all life which I would say most if not all Christians, Jews, and Muslims believe in. Then how is that fantastic? A person cannot say "God creates all life, except the life born from rapes" if so then God does not create all life.

If you believe in God, fine, good for you. But I am Lu brought up a good point earlier, that God's law by itself should not be determining what is legal and what is illegal in this country, that defies the very nature of this country. So explain to me, with logic and facts, why it's perfectly acceptable to force a woman to suffer through pregnancy and child birth when she didn't even make the decision to have a child in the first place.

[BigLutz]

and yet the last chance to destroy it lead to a huge democrat win.

Last time I checked such a thing was not pushed in the same way as it was in 2010

Why would I say anything. Is a kid begging me to tell them if there life means anything. I support sentient computer freedom and you ask me if a care how one is born

Just a yes or no, if a religious child born of rape asked if he was intended by God, would you say yes or no, stop dancing around it.

Then please tell me what exactly you are saying.

Does a loving God mean only good things can happen to a person. To put it another way does a loving parent mean they cannot do anything bad to them?

No possible disaster is never worth a now disaster.

Even when such a disaster is far worse?

No one can stop all dangers, we must live in the present.

Living in the present means understanding the possible damage ahead of us if we continue down this economic path.

And the Gop was regected in 2012. what does that mean.

Except that is not what we were talking about. Should the Democratic party change its big government ideals after 2010?

Not if banks refuse to loan out money.

As shown in 2008, people saving money and paying off loans does not result in banks giving out loans.

Exact quote where a republican supports rape, how about actions. They do speak louder then words. Like how Rick Perry wants to do away with the sex offenders list, meaning that those guilty of sex crimes get less then a slap on the wrist ???

"I want you to find me the exact quote where I said "Rape resulting in pregnancy is good" or "Rape is good" EXACT QUOTE."

My name is neither Todd Akin or Rick Perry.

If you believe in God, fine, good for you. But I am Lu brought up a good point earlier, that God's law by itself should not be determining what is legal and what is illegal in this country, that defies the very nature of this country.

The nature of this country is we elect people who shares our values and beliefs and who we believe can do a good job in Washington, if a majority of people believe a certain representative who is openly Christian shares their beliefs then they are elected.

So explain to me, with logic and facts, why it's perfectly acceptable to force a woman to suffer through pregnancy and child birth when she didn't even make the decision to have a child in the first place.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for a baby, a life, to die, for something it had no control over what brought it about? I don't know about you but suffering for 9 months is far less than permanent death.

[Bolt the Cat]

Why is it perfectly acceptable for a baby, a life, to die, for something it had no control over what brought it about? I don't know about you but suffering for 9 months is far less than permanent death.

It's not like pregnancy is 100% safe either. You are aware that women can die giving birth, yes? That might not be something they want to risk.

[ebilly99]

Last time I checked such a thing was not pushed in the same way as it was in 2010

Well think again. (Sandy Cheeks, 2001)

Just a yes or no, if a religious child born of rape asked if he was intended by God, would you say yes or no, stop dancing around it.

I would say no, just like if a atheist asked a creationist if his great great great great grandparents were a great ape I have no choice cause there is no god.

Does a loving God mean only good things can happen to a person. To put it another way does a loving parent mean they cannot do anything bad to them?

If they are perfect, no no they cant.

Even when such a disaster is far worse?

Even if the potential disaster was world war 3. We can not measure potential vs real.

Living in the present means understanding the possible damage ahead of us if we continue down this economic path.

And unless the reasons are probable enough and there is no better alternative should we ever consider it.

Except that is not what we were talking about. Should the Democratic party change its big government ideals after 2010?

No, not for one loss. However if the party itself is in turmoil then change is needed. Fox news is even admiting that the GOP may be in trouble. That equates to about 2 and a half real troubles for ever one Fox news problem

As shown in 2008, people saving money and paying off loans does not result in banks giving out loans.

And yet it should. The banks are getting money and not using it. there is your problem right there.

"I want you to find me the exact quote where I said "Rape resulting in pregnancy is good" or "Rape is good" EXACT QUOTE."

My name is neither Todd Akin or Rick Perry.

Because I have a problem with you? No.

The nature of this country is we elect people who shares our values and beliefs and who we believe can do a good job in Washington, if a majority of people believe a certain representative who is openly Christian shares their beliefs then they are elected.

Why do they have to be Christian. Even you don't agree with that why did you add it.

Why is it perfectly acceptable for a baby, a life, to die, for something it had no control over what brought it about? I don't know about you but suffering for 9 months is far less than permanent death.

Why should I care what happens to a embroy that never lived, has no brain. Remember life is mental activity's not how you are born.

[BigLutz]

Well think again. (Sandy Cheeks, 2001)

Proof?

I would say no, just like if a atheist asked a creationist if his great great great great grandparents were a great ape I have no choice cause there is no god.

So you are pushing your own personal view onto a person to cause them personal pain, where have I heard that before...

If they are perfect, no no they cant.

So being perfect means that you cannot cause pain for the greater good?

Even if the potential disaster was world war 3. We can not measure potential vs real.

Yeah we largely can, with economics and judging and forecasting the markets.

And unless the reasons are probable enough and there is no better alternative should we ever consider it.

The probably alternative is moving away from the policies that have created this malaze.

No, not for one loss. However if the party itself is in turmoil then change is needed. Fox news is even admiting that the GOP may be in trouble. That equates to about 2 and a half real troubles for ever one Fox news problem And yet it should.

And yet one could say the Democratic party was in turmoil in 2010 after such a monumental loss. Yet as you say ONE loss is not enough to change views.

The banks are getting money and not using it. there is your problem right there.

Banks are not monolithic turnstiles, they are betting their money on people being able to pay it back. As such creating a economic environment in which people are forgoing spending for saving and paying off debts does not create a environment of growth, and thus a bank worries about the ability of people paying it back.

Because I have a problem with you? No.

Then maybe you should get out of this debate, you are letting your emotions cause you to make ignorant arguments.

Why do they have to be Christian. Even you don't agree with that why did you add it.

Merely because the politician in question was a christian.

Why should I care what happens to a embroy that never lived, has no brain. Remember life is mental activity's not how you are born.

No YOUR definition of life is based on mental activity. Furthermore are you saying that embryo would not develop a brain?

It's not like pregnancy is 100% safe either. You are aware that women can die giving birth, yes? That might not be something they want to risk.

With modern technology and medicine such a thing has become incredibly rare. But lets play a little game.

Lets say you were kidnapped, you were strapped to a chair with a blood transfusion going from you to a man or woman tied to another chair. You are told that you must stay there for 9 months, you will be fed, and kept healthy, showered, etc etc. You can even leave if you wish, but if you leave you will be disconnected, and that person you are connected to and looking at will die. Or you can wait 9 months, and that person would live. Now there is also say a less than 1% chance you could die during these nine months. Would you look that person in the eye and disconnect yourself, letting them die?

[Bolt the Cat]

With modern technology and medicine such a thing has become incredibly rare. But lets play a little game.

Lets say you were kidnapped, you were strapped to a chair with a blood transfusion going from you to a man or woman tied to another chair. You are told that you must stay there for 9 months, you will be fed, and kept healthy, showered, etc etc. You can even leave if you wish, but if you leave you will be disconnected, and that person you are connected to and looking at will die. Or you can wait 9 months, and that person would live. Now there is also say a less than 1% chance you could die during these nine months. Would you look that person in the eye and disconnect yourself, letting them die?

Full grown man =/= unborn baby. It's not the same thing.

[BigLutz]

Full grown man =/= unborn baby. It's not the same thing.

If we to believe both are human lives, both have a future and potential to do things. Then what exactly is the difference?

[ebilly99]

Proof?



So you are pushing your own personal view onto a person to cause them personal pain, where have I heard that before...

How, no one can prove God exist, and worse no one can prove god cares. I can not and do not read gods mind.

So being perfect means that you cannot cause pain for the greater good?

Exactly If you can cause the same good without the pain then you are a jerk. If you can not you are not perfect.

Yeah we largely can, with economics and judging and forecasting the markets.

And that is why we are still on the Tax cuts even though they are forecasted to cause the problems

The probably alternative is moving away from the policies that have created this malaze.

So return to pre 2008

Banks are not monolithic turnstiles, they are betting their money on people being able to pay it back. As such creating a economic environment in which people are forgoing spending for saving and paying off debts does not create a environment of growth, and thus a bank worries about the ability of people paying it back.

Banks do not want to have people pay of there debt, they want to collect interest on the loan, but never pay down the balance.

Then maybe you should get out of this debate, you are letting your emotions cause you to make ignorant arguments.

I think you miss understand. I do not have a problem with you, so why do I care to Quote you.

Merely because the politician in question was a christian.

Romney is not christian, He is Mormon. A christian believes there is one god who is revealed in three persons, the father the son and hte Holy ghost. Also that through faith are ye saved not through works lest any man should boast.

No YOUR definition of life is based on mental activity. Furthermore are you saying that embryo would not develop a brain?

NO my definition of personhood is mental activitys. I am saying they have no brain at the time of abortion what exactly did we lose.

With modern technology and medicine such a thing has become incredibly rare. But lets play a little game.

Lets say you were kidnapped, you were strapped to a chair with a blood transfusion going from you to a man or woman tied to another chair. You are told that you must stay there for 9 months, you will be fed, and kept healthy, showered, etc etc. You can even leave if you wish, but if you leave you will be disconnected, and that person you are connected to and looking at will die. Or you can wait 9 months, and that person would live. Now there is also say a less than 1% chance you could die during these nine months. Would you look that person in the eye and disconnect yourself, letting them die?

Maybe, but I would expect that person to be in prison for the attempt. But lets shuffle the deck a little. Lets say a mad scientist graphs a slime mold onto your arm. He now says you have to leave it on for 9 months as it grows and collects your "Psychic energy's" When it does it will be self aware. Now tell me why it is bad to scrape that slime of your arm and go home.

[ebilly99]

If we to believe both are human lives, both have a future and potential to do things. Then what exactly is the difference?

I know they are both humans. I do not believe they are both People. Humans are nothing special, People are.