View Poll Results: Do you support Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?

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  • Mitt Romney

    86 27.22%
  • Barack Obama

    230 72.78%
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Thread: Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

  1. #2576
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Well think again. (Sandy Cheeks, 2001)
    Proof?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    I would say no, just like if a atheist asked a creationist if his great great great great grandparents were a great ape I have no choice cause there is no god.
    So you are pushing your own personal view onto a person to cause them personal pain, where have I heard that before...

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    If they are perfect, no no they cant.
    So being perfect means that you cannot cause pain for the greater good?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Even if the potential disaster was world war 3. We can not measure potential vs real.
    Yeah we largely can, with economics and judging and forecasting the markets.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    And unless the reasons are probable enough and there is no better alternative should we ever consider it.
    The probably alternative is moving away from the policies that have created this malaze.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    No, not for one loss. However if the party itself is in turmoil then change is needed. Fox news is even admiting that the GOP may be in trouble. That equates to about 2 and a half real troubles for ever one Fox news problem And yet it should.
    And yet one could say the Democratic party was in turmoil in 2010 after such a monumental loss. Yet as you say ONE loss is not enough to change views.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    The banks are getting money and not using it. there is your problem right there.
    Banks are not monolithic turnstiles, they are betting their money on people being able to pay it back. As such creating a economic environment in which people are forgoing spending for saving and paying off debts does not create a environment of growth, and thus a bank worries about the ability of people paying it back.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Because I have a problem with you? No.
    Then maybe you should get out of this debate, you are letting your emotions cause you to make ignorant arguments.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Why do they have to be Christian. Even you don't agree with that why did you add it.
    Merely because the politician in question was a christian.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Why should I care what happens to a embroy that never lived, has no brain. Remember life is mental activity's not how you are born.
    No YOUR definition of life is based on mental activity. Furthermore are you saying that embryo would not develop a brain?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt The Cat
    It's not like pregnancy is 100% safe either. You are aware that women can die giving birth, yes? That might not be something they want to risk.
    With modern technology and medicine such a thing has become incredibly rare. But lets play a little game.

    Lets say you were kidnapped, you were strapped to a chair with a blood transfusion going from you to a man or woman tied to another chair. You are told that you must stay there for 9 months, you will be fed, and kept healthy, showered, etc etc. You can even leave if you wish, but if you leave you will be disconnected, and that person you are connected to and looking at will die. Or you can wait 9 months, and that person would live. Now there is also say a less than 1% chance you could die during these nine months. Would you look that person in the eye and disconnect yourself, letting them die?

  2. #2577
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    With modern technology and medicine such a thing has become incredibly rare. But lets play a little game.

    Lets say you were kidnapped, you were strapped to a chair with a blood transfusion going from you to a man or woman tied to another chair. You are told that you must stay there for 9 months, you will be fed, and kept healthy, showered, etc etc. You can even leave if you wish, but if you leave you will be disconnected, and that person you are connected to and looking at will die. Or you can wait 9 months, and that person would live. Now there is also say a less than 1% chance you could die during these nine months. Would you look that person in the eye and disconnect yourself, letting them die?
    Full grown man =/= unborn baby. It's not the same thing.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

  3. #2578
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Full grown man =/= unborn baby. It's not the same thing.
    If we to believe both are human lives, both have a future and potential to do things. Then what exactly is the difference?

  4. #2579
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Proof?



    So you are pushing your own personal view onto a person to cause them personal pain, where have I heard that before...
    How, no one can prove God exist, and worse no one can prove god cares. I can not and do not read gods mind.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    So being perfect means that you cannot cause pain for the greater good?
    Exactly If you can cause the same good without the pain then you are a jerk. If you can not you are not perfect.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post

    Yeah we largely can, with economics and judging and forecasting the markets.
    And that is why we are still on the Tax cuts even though they are forecasted to cause the problems
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    The probably alternative is moving away from the policies that have created this malaze.
    So return to pre 2008
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post






    Banks are not monolithic turnstiles, they are betting their money on people being able to pay it back. As such creating a economic environment in which people are forgoing spending for saving and paying off debts does not create a environment of growth, and thus a bank worries about the ability of people paying it back.
    Banks do not want to have people pay of there debt, they want to collect interest on the loan, but never pay down the balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post

    Then maybe you should get out of this debate, you are letting your emotions cause you to make ignorant arguments.
    I think you miss understand. I do not have a problem with you, so why do I care to Quote you.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    Merely because the politician in question was a christian.
    Romney is not christian, He is Mormon. A christian believes there is one god who is revealed in three persons, the father the son and hte Holy ghost. Also that through faith are ye saved not through works lest any man should boast.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    No YOUR definition of life is based on mental activity. Furthermore are you saying that embryo would not develop a brain?
    NO my definition of personhood is mental activitys. I am saying they have no brain at the time of abortion what exactly did we lose.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    With modern technology and medicine such a thing has become incredibly rare. But lets play a little game.

    Lets say you were kidnapped, you were strapped to a chair with a blood transfusion going from you to a man or woman tied to another chair. You are told that you must stay there for 9 months, you will be fed, and kept healthy, showered, etc etc. You can even leave if you wish, but if you leave you will be disconnected, and that person you are connected to and looking at will die. Or you can wait 9 months, and that person would live. Now there is also say a less than 1% chance you could die during these nine months. Would you look that person in the eye and disconnect yourself, letting them die?
    Maybe, but I would expect that person to be in prison for the attempt. But lets shuffle the deck a little. Lets say a mad scientist graphs a slime mold onto your arm. He now says you have to leave it on for 9 months as it grows and collects your "Psychic energy's" When it does it will be self aware. Now tell me why it is bad to scrape that slime of your arm and go home.

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  5. #2580
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    If we to believe both are human lives, both have a future and potential to do things. Then what exactly is the difference?
    I know they are both humans. I do not believe they are both People. Humans are nothing special, People are.

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  6. #2581
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    How, no one can prove God exist, and worse no one can prove god cares. I can not and do not read gods mind.
    But again you are putting your own personal beliefs onto some one, causing them personal pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Exactly If you can cause the same good without the pain then you are a jerk. If you can not you are not perfect.
    Sometimes we have to have the pain to appreciate the good?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    And that is why we are still on the Tax cuts even though they are forecasted to cause the problems
    Not really getting what you are saying.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    So return to pre 2008 Banks do not want to have people pay of there debt, they want to collect interest on the loan, but never pay down the balance.
    Yet they also do not want to have a person default on their payment, something that is of large risk in such a stagnant or falling economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    I think you miss understand. I do not have a problem with you, so why do I care to Quote you
    If you do not want to quote me, why did you respond to a rebuttal in which I specifically asked for a quote.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Romney is not christian, He is Mormon. A christian believes there is one god who is revealed in three persons, the father the son and hte Holy ghost. Also that through faith are ye saved not through works lest any man should boast.
    We were not talking about Romney, but referencing those that used their Christian faith to define life created from rape.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    NO my definition of personhood is mental activitys. I am saying they have no brain at the time of abortion what exactly did we lose.
    We lost a person, that is unless you are saying that the embryo would have died with or without the abortion.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Maybe, but I would expect that person to be in prison for the attempt.
    If they were in prison, then you would not have been kidnapped and put in the position in the first place. But is someone less worthy of living merely for being in prison?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    But lets shuffle the deck a little. Lets say a mad scientist graphs a slime mold onto your arm. He now says you have to leave it on for 9 months as it grows and collects your "Psychic energy's" When it does it will be self aware. Now tell me why it is bad to scrape that slime of your arm and go home.
    That slime mold has no chance of becoming a human being.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    I know they are both humans. I do not believe they are both People. Humans are nothing special, People are.
    Personhood is incredibly subjective, a embryo has just as much of a chance of growing and living a healthy life as anyone else.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 18th November 2012 at 1:03 AM.

  7. #2582
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    But again you are putting your own personal beliefs onto some one, causing them personal pain.
    You want me to be frank. I know that every God put out there is a lie. Logic proves this one after another. I can not prove that there can not exist any form of god, but I can say without a doubt that there is no god that cares for the human race. This is not a opinion, it is the defalt position.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    Sometimes we have to have the pain to appreciate the good?
    Not in a perfect world or under the eyes of a perfect person (#1 reason god can not exist)
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    Yet they also do not want to have a person default on their payment, something that is of large risk in such a stagnant or falling economy.
    True there is a balance.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    If you do not want to quote me, why did you respond to a rebuttal in which I specifically asked for a quote.
    I missed the I.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    We were not talking about Romney, but referencing those that used their Christian faith to define life created from rape.
    Ok but why should they use there religion on the governments dime
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post

    We lost a person, that is unless you are saying that the embryo would have died with or without the abortion.
    Is killing a great ape equal to killing a human. It should be as the Great ape is a person in some country's.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    If they were in prison, then you would not have been kidnapped and put in the position in the first place.



    That slime mold has no chance of becoming a human being.
    I said the slime would become self aware. IE a person, so yes they would.

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  8. #2583
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    You want me to be frank. I know that every God put out there is a lie. Logic proves this one after another. I can not prove that there can not exist any form of god, but I can say without a doubt that there is no god that cares for the human race. This is not a opinion, it is the defalt position.
    No, that is still your opinion. You cannot prove that there is a God out there that does not care about the human race, you merely believe it. But as I said before, you are forcing your opinion onto some one, causing them pain.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Not in a perfect world or under the eyes of a perfect person (#1 reason god can not exist)
    And what makes you, a imperfect person, be able to judge what a perfect person would do?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    True there is a balance.
    Which is why we need to encourage economic growth, which is why directing such incentives to the middle and lower class during a down economy while forcing the rich to pay more is wrong, as it does not encourage economic growth, which is why Liberal Economic Policies is divorced from reality. Glad we finally got around to the point.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Ok but why should they use there religion on the governments dime
    Should not a representative be govern by their personal morals? If not then why not just place drones in there and not people?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Is killing a great ape equal to killing a human. It should be as the Great ape is a person in some country's. I said the slime would become self aware. IE a person, so yes they would.
    Being Self Aware does not make one a person. A cat is self aware, does that make it a person?

    To make it easier here is the legal definition of a person

    PERSON. This word is applied to men, women and children, who are called natural persons. In law, man and person are not exactly synonymous terms. Any human being is a man, whether he be a member of society or not, whatever may be the rank he holds, or whatever may be his age, sex, &c. A person is a man considered according to the rank he holds in society, with all the rights to which the place he holds entitles him, and the duties which it imposes.

    http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/person

    Here is the dictionary definition

    per·son/ˈpərsən/
    Noun:

    A human being regarded as an individual.
    Used in legal or formal contexts to refer to an unspecified individual.

    https://www.google.com/search?q=Defi...ient=firefox-a
    Last edited by BigLutz; 18th November 2012 at 1:14 AM.

  9. #2584
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    I'm just going to throw this out there: An embryo does not have a heartbeat for about four to five weeks. Before that, it's just a collection of cells. Many women who have been raped opt to get an abortion or get preventive pregnancy medication (such as Plan B) before then. I see no moral qualms about this.

    But even a heartbeat should not be the be-all, end-all for whether a woman has the choice to get an abortion or not. Savita Halappanavar at 17 weeks pregnant went to an Irish hospital with her husband in extreme pain. She was miscarrying. Throughout the ordeal, the baby still had a heartbeat, so the doctors would not provide her with an abortion according to Irish law. Savita's condition worsened, and she died in the hospital three days later. Because they wouldn't provide her an abortion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    You want me to be frank. I know that every God put out there is a lie. Logic proves this one after another. I can not prove that there can not exist any form of god, but I can say without a doubt that there is no god that cares for the human race. This is not a opinion, it is the defalt position.
    You don't seem to get it either. God may exist, God may not. What does it matter? This country is built on the idea of separation of church and state, so leave religion out of the political debates unless the persecution of your beliefs is relevant to the topic (which it's not). Forcing atheism on someone else is just as bad as them forcing their religion on you. Even worse, you're trying to say that your beliefs are fact, which is inherently wrong. Beliefs are meant to be independent of fact or truth, a gut feeling if you will. It's selfish to think everyone believes the same thing you do.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    You want me to be frank. I know that every God put out there is a lie. Logic proves this one after another. I can not prove that there can not exist any form of god, but I can say without a doubt that there is no god that cares for the human race. This is not a opinion, it is the defalt position.
    and atheists call Christians intolerant.
    Kind of hypocritical

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    I think some people just don't care, feeling like it doesn't matter who gets elected. That seemed especially true this election, as neither candidate really stood out or had good ideas.
    It does quite frankly matter lol...but I understand what you mean i guess. I just feel like that I don't care attitude has gotten us into a bit of jam of itself...
    /biased agianst cynicalness.

    As for whether or not they had good ideas or not...meh I can't provide anything for that. My judgement of it would faulter due to my lack of understanding of economics...In fact this would be the first election a payed attention too, and economics isn't until next semester. (Me being a senior and all.)


    When refering to learning..."In other words, groups are not where ideas are born. Groups are where ideas are evaluated."
    My eyes! (my eyes!) are filled with curiosity! You think! (You think!) that you have power over me! In this life! (This life!) There’s no room for you and me! So turn around and face the day with me!
    Such a sexy song. Urgh.

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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    and atheists call Christians intolerant.
    Kind of hypocritical
    He asked me if I would tell a kid if god created them for a purpose. After telling him about my beliefs three times And giving a answer that is factually correct he states it is faith based. It is not. I explained that there is no reason to believe in god, and that every god today can not exist. Where exactly am I being intolerant.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    He asked me if I would tell a kid if god created them for a purpose. After telling him about my beliefs three times And giving a answer that is factually correct he states it is faith based. It is not. I explained that there is no reason to believe in god, and that every god today can not exist. Where exactly am I being intolerant.
    You have no proof other than your opinions, yet you are trumpeting your belief as the only truth

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

  15. #2590
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    He asked me if I would tell a kid if god created them for a purpose. After telling him about my beliefs three times And giving a answer that is factually correct he states it is faith based.
    Correction you danced around it multiple times until I pinned you down.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    It is not. I explained that there is no reason to believe in god, and that every god today can not exist. Where exactly am I being intolerant.
    There is no reason not to believe in God, yet you assert your view as fact.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Correction you danced around it multiple times until I pinned you down.



    There is no reason not to believe in God, yet you assert your view as fact.
    and there is no proof that God does not exist and he is saying his belief (key word, belief) is a fact

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    He asked me if I would tell a kid if god created them for a purpose. After telling him about my beliefs three times And giving a answer that is factually correct he states it is faith based. It is not. I explained that there is no reason to believe in god, and that every god today can not exist. Where exactly am I being intolerant.
    Intolerance rises out of being unaccepting of other people's beliefs. You can believe there is no God, someone else can. As long as these beliefs do not negatively affect someone else, then there should be no problem with them. I happen to be a devout Christian, but I would never force my personal beliefs on someone else or public policy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Correction you danced around it multiple times until I pinned you down.



    There is no reason not to believe in God, yet you assert your view as fact.
    I stated that there was no reason to give a answer to the question as it does not apply for me. What god would you want me to take down first. I can do the egyptians or greeks if you want some breating room... Or I can dismantle the perfect gods (Yhwh, Jesus and Allah) your choice.

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    Then the question of Lutz is stricken you can strike mine as well. However there is no evidence for god, and quite a bit against god's claims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Then the question of Lutz is stricken you can strike mine as well. However there is no evidence for god, and quite a bit against god's claims.
    Strike the question, but you had to get a last word in there didn't you?

    Doesn't have much to do with your post here, but I thought I would put this here:

    "Science without religion is lame; religion without science is blind." (Albert Einstein)

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Then the question of Lutz is stricken you can strike mine as well. However there is no evidence for god, and quite a bit against god's claims.
    There is no evidence against God either.

    This a roundabout discussion. It will get us nowhere. You don't believe in God, others do. We should just leave it at that.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    I stated that there was no reason to give a answer to the question as it does not apply for me. What god would you want me to take down first. I can do the egyptians or greeks if you want some breating room... Or I can dismantle the perfect gods (Yhwh, Jesus and Allah) your choice.
    No one cares. Is it so much to ask that you let other people believe what they want to despite what you may think?

    Quote Originally Posted by Pika-Pika-Red View Post
    It does quite frankly matter lol...but I understand what you mean i guess. I just feel like that I don't care attitude has gotten us into a bit of jam of itself...
    /biased agianst cynicalness.
    That's because of the prevailing attitude of hopelessness against greedy corporations and/or government entities who seem to manipulate the law to make things better for themselves and worse for everyone else. Also, neither candidates really inspired much confidence or had any really specific plan for the country.
    Last edited by Bolt the Cat; 18th November 2012 at 1:48 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Sorry for getting us so far off track. I was wrong to do so.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Sorry for forcing my beliefs on others. I was wrong to do so.
    Agree completely.

    "What good is it for a man to gain the world, yet forfeit his soul?"

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    So, about that election.....

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