View Poll Results: Do you support Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?

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  • Mitt Romney

    86 27.22%
  • Barack Obama

    230 72.78%
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Thread: Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

  1. #2501
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    So you deny the Hurricane helped Obama...



    http://washington.cbslocal.com/2012/...ld-off-romney/



    http://thinkprogress.org/climate/201...ion/?mobile=nc



    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2012...#ixzz2BpStKkGS

    You can whine about how much you think Romney's ideas are wrong, but the fact is that he was tied or leading in national polls before Sandy, and was losing afterwards. Sandy gave Obama 6 days of pure TV coverage to look Presidential just days before the election. And at the end of the day, swung the swing voters into Obama's favor. Three Different Polls prove that.
    Obama was winning Wisconsin, Nevada, and Ohio already, decisively, before the hurricane. You're as funny as Karl Rove, who flailed around on Fox News insisting Ohio wasn't settled yet. Romney lost the election on issues and demographics, not any hurricane or voter fraud or the "liberal media conspiracy". Sandy was something that helped Obama make it close to a landslide, not an election clincher. There wasn't really one election clincher, but I like this USA Today infographic a lot: http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/p...a-won/1688263/
    Note how it mentions the hurricane as one of many factors. Obama is an exceedingly lucky man for sure, but you're trying to pretend Romney didn't run a horrible campaign with a lackluster ground game. Romney had only two great successes, winning the primary, and the first debate.
    Also, I know you're going to dispute this like crazy, but I really want to see exactly what you say about it: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/op...pagewanted=all

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Now it's been a while since I have taken economics, but I believe the goal of business is to make money, not to lose it.
    Not at the expense of everything else in this country. This mindset of "nothing else matters except money" is something that needs to be eliminated from this country.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Obama was winning Wisconsin, Nevada, and Ohio already, decisively, before the hurricane. You're as funny as Karl Rove, who flailed around on Fox News insisting Ohio wasn't settled yet.
    Decisively? Hurricane Sandy struck on the 29th. Take away the outliers Obama was winning Ohio by one or two points, well within the margin of error. With Wisconsin, NBC had him up by 3 and Rasmussen had him with a tie. I will give you Nevada but that was always a long shot.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Romney lost the election on issues and demographics, not any hurricane or voter fraud or the "liberal media conspiracy". Sandy was something that helped Obama make it close to a landslide, not an election clincher.
    So you dispute three different polls, showing a significant number of people were influenced by Sandy? And you say I am Karl Rove...

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Note how it mentions the hurricane as one of many factors. Obama is an exceedingly lucky man for sure, but you're trying to pretend Romney didn't run a horrible campaign with a lackluster ground game. Romney had only two great successes, winning the primary, and the first debate.
    Except Romney really didn't run a horrible campaign, did he have a bad ground game? Sure. But the fact that he was within the margin of error on so many battleground states before Sandy, and leading or tied in the National Vote does not suggest at all that he ran a bad campaign.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Also, I know you're going to dispute this like crazy, but I really want to see exactly what you say about it: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/08/op...pagewanted=all
    And Bush won largely on values in 2004, mobilizing evangelicals to turn out with anti gay measures. How did that work for the Republicans in the following years?

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat
    Not at the expense of everything else in this country. This mindset of "nothing else matters except money" is something that needs to be eliminated from this country.
    It is ignorant to say that nothing matters to these people but money. Take the Las Vegas small business owner that just laid off 22 employees.

    "I had to lay off 22 people today to make sure that my business is gonna thrive and I’m gonna be around for years to come. I have to build up that nest egg now for the taxes and regulations that are coming my way. "

    http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11...-22-employees/

    With added expenses thrown on by the Government these people have to find a way to make their business thrive or else risk losing it all.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 12th November 2012 at 5:19 AM.
    "No. I don't agree with him on a LOT of issues. Unlike most Republicans, who are blindly loyal to their party" ~ Maedar on Barack Obama

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    It is ignorant to say that nothing matters to these people but money. Take the Las Vegas small business owner that just laid off 22 employees.

    "I had to lay off 22 people today to make sure that my business is gonna thrive and I’m gonna be around for years to come. I have to build up that nest egg now for the taxes and regulations that are coming my way. "

    http://lasvegas.cbslocal.com/2012/11...-22-employees/

    With added expenses thrown on by the Government these people have to find a way to make their business thrive or else risk losing it all.
    It's more so with the large corporations, the ones who keep giving themselves extra bonuses when their employees need it more. The ones who have the gall to keep racism and sexism alive by paying minorities and women less money and create an inequality of opportunity in this country. The ones who send lobbyists to Washington to pressure lawmakers into enacting laws that benefit them at the expense of everyone else. The ones that bend democracy to their will. These are the kind of behaviors that need fixing the most, eliminate that and all this nonsense involving the debt and the job market will be that much closer to being fixed.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    It's more so with the large corporations, the ones who keep giving themselves extra bonuses when their employees need it more.
    You realize that the companies I have largely posted are not huge mega corporations rights? The only one I can think of is the one that owns Red Lobster/Olive Garden and even that isn't really something like you are inferring.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    The ones who have the gall to keep racism and sexism alive by paying minorities and women less money and create an inequality of opportunity in this country.
    Guess you didn't read the article I posted about Motherhood being the cause for pay inequality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    The ones who send lobbyists to Washington to pressure lawmakers into enacting laws that benefit them at the expense of everyone else. The ones that bend democracy to their will. These are the kind of behaviors that need fixing the most, eliminate that and all this nonsense involving the debt and the job market will be that much closer to being fixed.
    Except it won't, right now it is laws like the ones Obama is enacting that are causing the debts and causing the downturn in the jobs market. You can point fingers at these strawmen corporations all you like. But at the end of the day its something like Obamacare that does so much damage.
    "No. I don't agree with him on a LOT of issues. Unlike most Republicans, who are blindly loyal to their party" ~ Maedar on Barack Obama

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    Fox News Channel: Military Timeline from Night of Benghazi Attack Begs More Questions

    Three separate areas of the United States government have now each produced a separate timeline for the attack in Benghazi, and more questions than answers are popping up. David Petraeus’ resignation and subsequent absence from congressional hearings this coming week won’t help matters much, leaving the following tidbits wide open for scrutiny.:

    • 9:42 p.m., Benghazi time; 3:42 p.m., Washington, D.C., time: start of “incident” (Central Intelligence Agency timeline starts two minutes earlier)
    • 3:57 p.m., D.C. time: unarmed, unmanned drone directed to Benghazi on orders from General Carter Ham of United States Africa Command
    • 4:32 p.m., D.C. time: notification of Leon Panetta and General Martin Dempsey
    • 5:00 p.m., D.C. time: scheduled meeting with Pres. Obama at White House
    • Midnight, Benghazi time; 6:00 p.m., D.C. time: radio calls for help and air support from CIA team and personnel still inside facility (British sources report “almost continuous fire on the annex after the team fled from the consulate”)
    • 6:00-8:00 p.m., D.C. time; midnight-2:00 a.m., Benghazi time: discussion between Panetta, Dempsey, and Ham of additional response options
    • 2:53 a.m., Benghazi time: orders to deploy to Benghazi to support American operatives formalized

    Among the would-be rescue teams was a group from the Charlie 110 Company, which was undertaking counterterrorism exercises in Croatia, and they appear to have not received permission to enter Libyan airspace. The timetable involving that team has yet to be disclosed, assuming that there are any viable leads there, but by the morning of September 12, Ambassador Chris Stevens’ body was accounted for, and David Petraeus’ resignation only adds to the fog surrounding Libya, at least, as we might perceive. Elsewhere in that country, the situation seems to be even more lawless.:

    Washington Post: U.S.-backed force in Libya faces challenges

    I could call Al-Qaeda a group of vultures, but caution would tell me that such a comparison might insult vultures by this point in time. While the Libyans’ military and police units stay embryonic, two of their most powerful militias, the Libyan Shield and the Supreme Security Committee, were instigating some of the trouble plaguing Libya’s efforts to reestablish security, with the LS blocking residents displaced from Misrata, but also engaging in daily clashes with the SSC. Libyan lawmakers are split over any solutions, but I’d venture a guess that they’ll be no less nervous about similar efforts by America, its allies, and other Arab countries against… Bashar Al-Assad.:

    British Broadcasting Corporation: Gulf states recognize Syria opposition
    Ahram: Will Syria’s Muslim Brotherhood take power after Assad?

    While the Muslim Brotherhood attempts to patch any sympathetic elements together, the Free Syrian Army looks set to play a bigger role in coordinating with this new coalition. This new cleric fled Syria after repeated criticisms of Assad, and this time around, he’s leading the calls for “freedom for every Sunni, Alawite, Ismaili, Christian, Druze, Assyrian…” and any other Syrian seeking Assad’s downfall. The Arab League has called on other anti-Assad groups to sign up with this coalition, and as a pleasant surprise for yours truly, even if that doesn’t say much, the Muslim Brotherhood’s Syria branch may very well be sidelined as a direct consequence of the overall group’s prominence in Egypt. Muslim Brotherhood operatives there have begun to encounter stiff resistance from global observers pointing out Syria’s broader religious and ethnic diversity, but even at best, I’m opining that a steady stalemate would keep both Assad and those Sunni supremacists bogged down, which will leave one last puzzle piece to ponder.:

    New York Times: Tunisia Battles over Pulpits and a Revolution’s Legacy

    It looks like the Salafis have come out in force throughout Tunisia’s mosques, maintaining control of about 70 after fighting the new government there. Khatib Al-Idrissi is one of the clerics looking to denounce democratic principles as entirely incompatible with Sharia, and even though there’ve been no active attempts to actively bring their activities together with other Islamic supremacists scattered across North Africa, they are reinforcing each other’s separate agendas. As an example, some jihadists were caught smuggling weapons “from Libya to Mali or Algeria across Tunisia”, and clerics from Saudi Arabia have made their way to that country to call for more strident confrontations against the United States. As a matter of logical conclusions, they could coalesce to form something like an Islamic Federation of North Africa, and one of my first instincts would be to wonder just what took them so long. If they wanted decisive action against Westerners, then they could call for the return of Ayman Al-Zawahiri, but if they wanted continuity against any non-Islamic minorities in their own backyard, then they could put Muhammad Morsi in charge. Either way, we in the United States and across the planet would know that these Islamists were that much closer to completely locking religious liberty out of their society, subsuming themselves and as many of their enemies as they could under a maelstrom of destruction. Back inside the United States, one imagines how many fortunes of a different kind could be extinguished as President Barack Obama’s main legislative achievement steadily unfolds.:

    Fox News Channel: Group Turns to Social Media to Rally Support for Papa John’s amid Liberal Backlash
    Washington Post Wonkblog: Sarah Kliff: Is ObamaCare too much work for the Obama administration?

    The contrast in speed between the opposing sides is quite striking to behold, and my stomach’s starting to get an idea about this trend. Daniel Wetter, who volunteered to support Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign, is calling for a Papa John’s Appreciation Day this upcoming Friday because its founder, one John Schnatter, is worried about cutting hours to meet insurance claims for its employees. Incredibly, some officials in the Obama administration are increasingly uncertain about the workload necessary to implement the thing, and some states could opt out of any attempts to cooperate entirely, which would tell me that the businesses looking to fit into the web of regulations that law unleashed are making their calculations based on a law that might not even go into effect at all, even after everything the President and the Democrats did to essentially drag it over the proverbial finish line. If overextension and overexertion on the part of the American federal government really are the main effects to note here, then one could wonder about any shockwaves that reverberate across certain other areas of political discourse in at least the next two years.
    Last edited by ccangelopearl1362; 15th November 2012 at 1:21 AM.
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    Romney blames his election loss to Obama's "Gifts" to the minorities and young voters.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-young-voters/

    Grover Norquist claims that Obama won because he called Romney a "poopy head". Yes, he actually said that.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2116219.html

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Romney blames his election loss to Obama's "Gifts" to the minorities and young voters.

    http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...-young-voters/
    To quote Colbert: "We thought they would go back to their home planet!"

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    Grover Norquist has also said before that he wanted government so small he could "drag it into the bathroom and drown it in the bathtub" and that bipartisanship was "another name for date rape." What I'm trying to say here is that I'm not really wont to care what Grover Norquist says and believe a sensible Republican (as mostly Republicans or those who lean that way would be concerned with his opinions) would distance himself from Norquist and any of his propositions, to avoid looking like they're in cahoots with the guy who said of his party, "Our goal is to inflict pain. It is not good enough to win; it has to be a painful and devastating defeat. We're sending a message here. It is like when the king would take his opponent's head and spike it on a pole for everyone to see."

    The Democrats have some questionable minds on their team, too. But come on, "poopy head?" I know what he meant, but I can only see that as self-vitiation. I mean, surely there was something he could say that sounded more intelligent, whether he was using it in quotation (misses the tone of the intended quoted figure) or not (holds himself down by not elevating his language).
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  10. #2510

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    Young and black voters in states like Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida turned out, and lower-middle class white voters didn't. That's what cost Romney the election. It's not that there aren't enough white voters anymore to elect someone like Romney, it's that several million white voters stayed home:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art..._116106-2.html

    These voters didn't like Obama, but they didn't like Romney's career in private equity or the Republican position on manufacturing either. So they didn't vote.

  11. #2511
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeJustice View Post
    Young and black voters in states like Wisconsin, Ohio, and Florida turned out, and lower-middle class white voters didn't. That's what cost Romney the election. It's not that there aren't enough white voters anymore to elect someone like Romney, it's that several million white voters stayed home:
    http://www.realclearpolitics.com/art..._116106-2.html

    These voters didn't like Obama, but they didn't like Romney's career in private equity or the Republican position on manufacturing either. So they didn't vote.
    A personal thing to add, my mom didn't really want to vote, she would of prefered to completely avoid. I never truly got why...(I mean I understood it, but I never really got it...)

    Are long lines or fear of choosing the wrong leader for the USA really that denturent? Maybe its cause I want to actually pay attention to politics more then some others, but...lol
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pika-Pika-Red View Post
    A personal thing to add, my mom didn't really want to vote, she would of prefered to completely avoid. I never truly got why...(I mean I understood it, but I never really got it...)

    Are long lines or fear of choosing the wrong leader for the USA really that denturent? Maybe its cause I want to actually pay attention to politics more then some others, but...lol
    I think some people just don't care, feeling like it doesn't matter who gets elected. That seemed especially true this election, as neither candidate really stood out or had good ideas.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Whoever took power is going to be blamed for the inevitable. America is going down as a big power making way for China. whoever came in was going to get the stick for it

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ninja Eevee View Post
    Whoever took power is going to be blamed for the inevitable. America is going down as a big power making way for China. whoever came in was going to get the stick for it
    This. To be honest you'd be hard put to fit a cigarette paper between Obama and Romney anyway

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    Lutz, the polls were of "likely voters". Many of the pollsters had flawed likely voter models that assumed drastically lower turnout for much of Obama's base. When you look at the registed voter models, they showed Obama winning decisively. So it seems that, thanks largely to Obama's ground game, he managed to convert many registered but unlikely voters into likely voters.
    Also, this election seems to be signifying that making the election about the culture war helps Democrats now more than Republicans because of shifting opinions on immigration, gay marriage, and contraception. If the Republican Party can't shake loose of the grip the fundamentalist Christians have on it, it'll become marginalized.
    Also, obviously, Republicans are screwed in the midterms if they don't make a deal to avert the fiscal cliff. I think Boehner's ready to make that deal, but I think unfortunately he's merely a figurehead now, and Cantor is in charge.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Also, this election seems to be signifying that making the election about the culture war helps Democrats now more than Republicans because of shifting opinions on immigration, gay marriage, and contraception. If the Republican Party can't shake loose of the grip the wealthy have on it, it'll become marginalized.
    Fixed. The fundamental Christians aren't the problem, in fact the Republicans' close relation to Christianity could actually help them win over Latinos and maybe some other minorities. The problem is that the Republicans are associated with upper class businessmen, which gives them the impression that the right is out to make things better for the rich and worse for everyone else.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    I don't think Latinos are religious in a way that would endear them to the Republican brand of WASPish "family values" conservatism; for example they don't seem to care much about gay marriage

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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Lutz, the polls were of "likely voters". Many of the pollsters had flawed likely voter models that assumed drastically lower turnout for much of Obama's base. When you look at the registed voter models, they showed Obama winning decisively. So it seems that, thanks largely to Obama's ground game, he managed to convert many registered but unlikely voters into likely voters.
    And do you have any proof that the 2 or 3% of unlikely voters Obama was able to push out did not feel the same way?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Also, obviously, Republicans are screwed in the midterms if they don't make a deal to avert the fiscal cliff. I think Boehner's ready to make that deal, but I think unfortunately he's merely a figurehead now, and Cantor is in charge.
    The Republicans are screwed? It's the Democrats who have all the Senate seats up and... it's the Democrats who are now supporting going over the fiscal cliff.

    http://www.nytimes.com/2012/11/16/us...m-the-top.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by PokeJustice View Post
    I don't think Latinos are religious in a way that would endear them to the Republican brand of WASPish "family values" conservatism; for example they don't seem to care much about gay marriage
    Well maybe they can stretch their values a bit to appeal to all Christians instead of fundamentalists. And if they did that, I think Latinos would gravitate to the Republicans as opposed to the atheistic Democrats. At any rate, I think the Republicans need to change something in their party platform if they don't want to fade into obscurity.
    Quote Originally Posted by LizardonX View Post
    Tabitha has really let himself go, just how many lava cookies did he eat in the last 11 years?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bolt the Cat View Post
    Well maybe they can stretch their values a bit to appeal to all Christians instead of fundamentalists. And if they did that, I think Latinos would gravitate to the Republicans as opposed to the atheistic Democrats. At any rate, I think the Republicans need to change something in their party platform if they don't want to fade into obscurity.
    You know its funny, every single election the Republicans lose, 2006, 2008, and now 2012, everyone says "The Republicans need to change so they don't fade into obscurity". Yet in 2004 and 2010, both massive Republican wins, I never heard anyone talk about the need to change Democratic their views to avoid fading into obscurity.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 17th November 2012 at 3:48 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You know its funny, every single election the Republicans lose, 2006, 2008, and now 2012, everyone says "The Republicans need to change so they don't fade into obscurity". Yet in 2004 and 2010, both massive Republican wins, I never heard anyone talk about the need to change Democratic their views to avoid fading into obscurity.
    Because 2004 was a narrow victory, and 2010 happened because of the healthcare system. 2012 was a narrow race but people noticed that you can't win the elections with only winning the white male vote.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Because 2004 was a narrow victory,
    You realize that Bush won with the largest popular vote in history at the time, and the Republicans increased their power in the House. 2000 was a narrow victory, I would not consider 2004 that narrow of a victory.

    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    and 2010 happened because of the healthcare system.
    Then shouldn't that inform Democrats that they need to change their views on Big Government programs?

    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    2012 was a narrow race but people noticed that you can't win the elections with only winning the white male vote.
    Well in that case they do not need to change their views, merely their strategy and engage in race pandering that the Democrats seem to love to do.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You realize that Bush won with the largest popular vote in history at the time, and the Republicans increased their power in the House. 2000 was a narrow victory, I would not consider 2004 that narrow of a victory.
    You do realize that 2004 was the seventh closest electoral vote margin of all time, right? The popular vote was also closer than 2012.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    To make this victory even sweeter it is official, Obama won Florida aswell.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2109753.html

    So he won all but one of the swingstates.
    This is something that irks me. Why are the Obamaites treating this election as some kind of sports event their team just won? Obama doesn't give a flip about you, just your votes. Same with any politician really.

    When it gets down to it, I am just fed up with our political system. I voted in this election to vote against Obama, I had no love for Romney, but he was the lesser of two evils. I don't think there has been a candidate in my lifetime that I liked.
    Last edited by TheWatersGreatGuardian; 17th November 2012 at 3:52 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You realize that Bush won with the largest popular vote in history at the time, and the Republicans increased their power in the House. 2000 was a narrow victory, I would not consider 2004 that narrow of a victory.
    And John Kerry won the second highest amount of popular votes up until that time. 2004 was incredibly close, even closer than this one.
    Last edited by YourFavoriteUser; 17th November 2012 at 3:54 PM.
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