View Poll Results: Do you support Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?

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Thread: Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

  1. #2651
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    Republican Georgia Senator Saxby Chambliss unloads on Grover Norquist and the anti-tax pledge.

    http://thehill.com/blogs/on-the-mone...ist-tax-pledge

    Republican Sen. Saxby Chambliss (Ga.) on Wednesday said that addressing the nation’s looming “fiscal cliff” took precedence over honoring the anti-tax pledge he signed for conservative activist Grover Norquist.

    “I care more about my country than I do about a 20-year-old pledge,” said Chambliss to local Georgia television station 13WMAZ. “If we do it his way then we’ll continue in debt, and I just have a disagreement with him about that.”

    Chambliss said he expected that Norquist and some conservatives might hold his decision against him when he is up for reelection in 2014, but said he was confident he had made the right choice.

    “I don't worry about that because I care too much about my country. I care a lot more about it than I do Grover Norquist,” said Chambliss.

    “I'm willing to do the right thing and let the political consequences take care of themselves,” the Georgia senator added.

  2. #2652
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    I voted for Gary Johnson.
    There were SIX candidates, not just Obama and Romney.
    IMO Johnson's policies were by far the best.


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  3. #2653
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    Quote Originally Posted by SlimShady View Post
    I voted for Gary Johnson.
    There were SIX candidates, not just Obama and Romney.
    IMO Johnson's policies were by far the best.
    Pity for you that in a two party system your policies won't matter if you aren't a republican or a democrat.
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    My state only had three, Slim. They really need to nationalize control over the elections, preferably with a non-partisan panel making the decisions about this sort of thing, because it is ridiculous.
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  5. #2655
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    Quote Originally Posted by 7 tyranitars View Post
    Pity for you that in a two party system your policies won't matter if you aren't a republican or a democrat.
    So true

    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine View Post
    My state only had three, Slim. They really need to nationalize control over the elections, preferably with a non-partisan panel making the decisions about this sort of thing, because it is ridiculous.
    Really? That's a shame. They really need to give these people equal light.


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  6. #2656
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    How can you not see him as anything but a weak leader? With the Stimulus he let Congress handle it, with Obamacare he let Congress handle it, even pleading with Congress to pass something. He could not get through the Dream Act so he did it through his own power, and largely Congress both Republican and Democrats decided they did not need him after his stupidity nearly killed the debt deal. I mean seriously, this is a man that let his own party, whom he is supposed to be a leader of, walk all over him for two years. And then he talked himself out of one of the biggest debt deals of his first term. What of that does not say "Weak Leader"?
    Yeah, I'm not super happy with Obama. But unfortunately he's what we've got, and Romney would have been an even weaker leader. And I think Obama's learned a lot. I mean, this is one of the pitfalls of electing a president with not that much experience, they have a steep learning curve. I don't think he's stupid though, I just think he bought into his own myth of changing the dialogue in Washington, and ran into the harsh reality of things. I'm honestly glad none of those debt deals happened, because again, like I've said before, I don't think the debt should be what we worry about right now as long as the economy is still in the hole (and it's improving, but it's still in trouble). And hey, I bet you the DREAM act gets through in this Congressional session, given that Hispanics have asserted themselves as a major voting bloc in American politics. Republicans are starting to realize that, whatever their objections to illegal immigration, they're going to have to make a shift, if only to blatantly pander to Hispanic voters. In terms of asking Congress to handle it, a lot of his approach was based on the idea that people would come together, share ideas, and put together the best proposal. This was absurdly naive, but that's what he thought. He clearly doesn't think that anymore. I'm willing to bet the reason he didn't really campaign for any Congresspeople or Senators is because he kind of hates most of them now, even those in his party.

  7. #2657
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    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    Yeah, I'm not super happy with Obama. But unfortunately he's what we've got, and Romney would have been an even weaker leader.
    Romney ran a company successfully, ran a state successfully, and ran the Olympics successfully, how does any of that speak to him being a weak leader?

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    And I think Obama's learned a lot. I mean, this is one of the pitfalls of electing a president with not that much experience, they have a steep learning curve. I don't think he's stupid though, I just think he bought into his own myth of changing the dialogue in Washington, and ran into the harsh reality of things.
    If he honestly believes that him making speeches can change things then he is either stupid or ignorant, take your pick.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    I'm honestly glad none of those debt deals happened, because again, like I've said before, I don't think the debt should be what we worry about right now as long as the economy is still in the hole (and it's improving, but it's still in trouble).
    You want to talk about a hole in the economy, what do you think would have happened if the Debt Deal didnt go through and we defaulted? Or if our debt gets so high that people stop buying our bonds and we are forced to buy them ourselves. THAT will cause a hole in the economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    And hey, I bet you the DREAM act gets through in this Congressional session, given that Hispanics have asserted themselves as a major voting bloc in American politics. Republicans are starting to realize that, whatever their objections to illegal immigration, they're going to have to make a shift, if only to blatantly pander to Hispanic voters.
    You know what is sad, that to win the Hispanic vote that you have to reward illegal behavior. It really speaks alot for the hispanic vote.

    Quote Originally Posted by Evil Quagsire View Post
    In terms of asking Congress to handle it, a lot of his approach was based on the idea that people would come together, share ideas, and put together the best proposal. This was absurdly naive, but that's what he thought. He clearly doesn't think that anymore. I'm willing to bet the reason he didn't really campaign for any Congresspeople or Senators is because he kind of hates most of them now, even those in his party.
    No, he believed that it was not the President's job to try to lead on issues before Congress, as such he let Congress write the bill, and it turned into a disaster.

  8. #2658
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Romney ran a company successfully, ran a state successfully, and ran the Olympics successfully, how does any of that speak to him being a weak leader?
    You haven't paid a single attention in his campaign as well as the primaries, have you?


    You know what is sad, that to win the Hispanic vote that you have to reward illegal behavior. It really speaks alot for the hispanic vote.
    Attitude like that is not going to get Republicans to the White House ever which is why some high-profile Republicans such as Rubio, Christie, and Jindal are distancing from Romney's gifts comment.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    You haven't paid a single attention in his campaign as well as the primaries, have you?
    Last time I checked, Romney isn't the day to day leader of a campaign as he would be for Governor, or CEO, or Controller of the Olympics. That job is for the Campaign Manager. The actual candidate in a campaign is really just a figure head, he may change things in speeches and in pamplets, but when it comes to commercials and setting things up, and running the campaign, that is for the Campaign Manager.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Attitude like that is not going to get Republicans to the White House ever which is why some high-profile Republicans such as Rubio, Christie, and Jindal are distancing from Romney's gifts comment.
    That does not make it any less disgusting.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 23rd November 2012 at 11:45 PM.

  10. #2660
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    I just don't feel like entertaining this "discussion" on a Pokemon forum no less. You want to come back point for point on what someone has to say, to you its not a discussion it's about topping what the other person has to say. I hate getting into conversations like this because I'm just wasting my time with you. It doesn't matter the proof I bring to bear for my opinion you will shut it down because it's not about the discussion for you, it's about being right and shoving it in my face why I am wrong.

  11. #2661
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    Umm what did you expect? This is a debate forum, dissecting points and proving proof is kind of what we do here.

  12. #2662
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    No, the point of a debate forum is to have discussions and try to come to a moderate point of view. After all, that is what we are hear for right? We all have to agree on something. The world can't be polarized can it?
    (can you feel my sarcasm.)

  13. #2663
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Last time I checked, Romney isn't the day to day leader of a campaign as he would be for Governor, or CEO, or Controller of the Olympics. That job is for the Campaign Manager. The actual candidate in a campaign is really just a figure head, he may change things in speeches and in pamplets, but when it comes to commercials and setting things up, and running the campaign, that is for the Campaign Manager.
    And here's something I like to bring up. You know in the primaries, Sheldon Adelson was backing Newt Gingrich by spending millions on ads attacking Romney on his experience with Bain Capital BEFORE he backed Romney and lost in all races he donated millions to this election. The major damage against Romney was already done in the primaries because of the Super PACs. In Jon Stewart's words, "This election wasn't murder, it was an auto-unerotic asphyxiation."

    That does not make it any less disgusting.
    And here's something those like Bill O'Reilly need to know is that they can't insinuate that the ones who voted for Obama want "stuff" since that would only make those feel antagonized by the GOP and not want to vote for them. The results showed that Romney got the lowest percentage with 23 percent of the Latino voters since Bob Dole in 1996 and Obama had 93 percent of the African American vote as well as 73 percent of the Asian Americans. That means no more Southern Strategy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    And here's something I like to bring up. You know in the primaries, Sheldon Adelson was backing Newt Gingrich by spending millions on ads attacking Romney on his experience with Bain Capital BEFORE he backed Romney and lost in all races he donated millions to this election. The major damage against Romney was already done in the primaries because of the Super PACs. In Jon Stewart's words, "This election wasn't murder, it was an auto-unerotic asphyxiation."
    And you have proof that such attack ads did damage to Romney in the main election?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    And here's something those like Bill O'Reilly need to know is that they can't insinuate that the ones who voted for Obama want "stuff" since that would only make those feel antagonized by the GOP and not want to vote for them. The results showed that Romney got the lowest percentage with 23 percent of the Latino voters since Bob Dole in 1996 and Obama had 93 percent of the African American vote as well as 73 percent of the Asian Americans. That means no more Southern Strategy.
    If they do not want stuff then the GOP does not need to worry about passing the DREAM act do they?

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    And you have proof that such attack ads did damage to Romney in the main election?
    You missed all the flip-flopping, have you? The attacks on his record really caused him to fail in convincing voters about his experience in business and even had to go right-wing to pander to the GOP base only for it to haunt him in the general election. In the end, what caused Romney to lose the election was not Hurricane Sandy which Republicans shouldn't blame Chris Christie for... It was Romney himself.

    If they do not want stuff then the GOP does not need to worry about passing the DREAM act do they?
    And ironically, Republicans are more than free to give stuff to the wealthy aka "job creators".
    Last edited by Silver Soul; 24th November 2012 at 6:49 PM.

  16. #2666
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    And you have proof that such attack ads did damage to Romney in the main election?



    If they do not want stuff then the GOP does not need to worry about passing the DREAM act do they?
    1. Those attack adds did do damage. If I remember correctly, many independents were mad at thinking the Republicans were unstable. I think in the primaries, the Republicans tried to hard to kill each other that it killed all of their chances. Flip-flopping and stuff killed Romney.

    2. People are innately selfish. If they can get something for free, they are going to take it.

  17. #2667
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    Who cares, there's one guy but then there's another.

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    Quote Originally Posted by miles0624 View Post
    1. Those attack adds did do damage. If I remember correctly, many independents were mad at thinking the Republicans were unstable. I think in the primaries, the Republicans tried to hard to kill each other that it killed all of their chances. Flip-flopping and stuff killed Romney.
    Yet it was Obama's attack on Romney in early June that is credited with painting the narrative.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul
    You missed all the flip-flopping, have you? The attacks on his record really caused him to fail in convincing voters about his experience in business and even had to go right-wing to pander to the GOP base only for it to haunt him in the general election. In the end, what caused Romney to lose the election was not Hurricane Sandy which Republicans shouldn't blame Chris Christie for... It was Romney himself.
    Is that why Romney was tied or leading in National Polls going into Sandy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul
    And ironically, Republicans are more than free to give stuff to the wealthy aka "job creators".
    As that creates jobs and helps the economy. Passing the Dream Act merely rewards criminal behavior.

  19. #2669
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Yet it was Obama's attack on Romney in early June that is credited with painting the narrative.
    I actually thought it was Gringrich (may be wrong). Wasn't it his attacking style that pulled the south more toward him. His style showed that he could be more of a leader and actually lead the country, and made Romney seem inexperienced. But it was his own mouth that got him in trouble.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Is that why Romney was tied or leading in National Polls going into Sandy?
    I'm not really sure those pools were realistic. I was actually in Ohio campaigning for Romney, and his team had a poor strategy at best. We stayed there for two weeks, and we only hit the upperscale neighborhoods, along with a few middle class. This also was with phone banking apparently we had hit some of the houses multiple times, and got cussed out back. (Also, was the first time I got a door slammed in my face. You Yankees are mean up there.) He needed to actually go his some democratic neighborhoods, because with the setup, we needed to swing some of them.


    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    As that creates jobs and helps the economy. Passing the Dream Act merely rewards criminal behavior.
    Agreed

  20. #2670
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    Quote Originally Posted by miles0624 View Post
    I actually thought it was Gringrich (may be wrong). Wasn't it his attacking style that pulled the south more toward him. His style showed that he could be more of a leader and actually lead the country, and made Romney seem inexperienced. But it was his own mouth that got him in trouble.
    Yeah but you have to remember those ads were not only 10 or so months before the election, but also not angled toward what became the battleground states.

    Quote Originally Posted by miles0624 View Post
    I'm not really sure those pools were realistic. I was actually in Ohio campaigning for Romney, and his team had a poor strategy at best. We stayed there for two weeks, and we only hit the upperscale neighborhoods, along with a few middle class. This also was with phone banking apparently we had hit some of the houses multiple times, and got cussed out back. (Also, was the first time I got a door slammed in my face. You Yankees are mean up there.) He needed to actually go his some democratic neighborhoods, because with the setup, we needed to swing some of them.
    Alot of that may be that multi million dollar computer system Romney thought would help him, except his team did not test it and it ended up crashing on election day.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Is that why Romney was tied or leading in National Polls going into Sandy?
    Nate Silver points out that Romney already lost the momentum in the second debate. You have to look at the electoral math.

    As that creates jobs and helps the economy. Passing the Dream Act merely rewards criminal behavior.
    According to the recent jobs reports, trickle-down economics are not working and even Bill Kristol says that it won't hurt to raise taxes on the wealthy. When I say "job creators", I was being sarcastic. And another thing about the DREAM Act, there has to be something done about immigration reform.
    Last edited by Silver Soul; 24th November 2012 at 8:29 PM.

  22. #2672
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Nate Silver points out that Romney already lost the momentum in the second debate. You have to look at the electoral math.
    You seem to be confusing a loss of momentum with losing. Romney was riding incredibly high after the first debate, there was no chance that Obama would have two repeat terrible performances.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    According to the recent jobs reports, trickle-down economics are not working
    Yes because the past four years has been flushed with trickle down economics with Obama threatening higher taxes with every other breath, while increasing Regulations.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    and even Bill Kristol says that it won't hurt to raise taxes on the wealthy. When I say "job creators", I was being sarcastic.
    And both Obama and Bill Clinton have said you do not raise taxes in a down economy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    And another thing about the DREAM Act, there has to be something done about immigration reform.
    Yeah it is called building a border and enforcing the law

  23. #2673
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    You seem to be confusing a loss of momentum with losing. Romney was riding incredibly high after the first debate, there was no chance that Obama would have two repeat terrible performances.
    The lead was modest at best. Usually the challenger pulls a performance in the polls after the first debate against the incumbent and the gains are from undecided voters.

    Yes because the past four years has been flushed with trickle down economics with Obama threatening higher taxes with every other breath, while increasing Regulations.
    We could have at least eliminate some tax loopholes but for some reason, that's not good apparently.

    And both Obama and Bill Clinton have said you do not raise taxes in a down economy.
    That is true but there needs to be ways to increase revenue. And you should know that the corporate tax rates are at an all time low.

    Yeah it is called building a border and enforcing the law
    However, we can't enforce the law in the way in happened in Arizona with SB 1070 and the reception from this election showed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    The lead was modest at best. Usually the challenger pulls a performance in the polls after the first debate against the incumbent and the gains are from undecided voters.
    No usually the debates do not change the polls, Obama's pathetic debate just shocked everyone and made them question his Presidential credentials.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    We could have at least eliminate some tax loopholes but for some reason, that's not good apparently.
    We could, no argument there.

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    That is true but there needs to be ways to increase revenue. And you should know that the corporate tax rates are at an all time low.
    Corporate Tax Rates? The same Corporate Tax Rates that are the highest in the world?

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...s-economically

    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    However, we can't enforce the law in the way in happened in Arizona with SB 1070 and the reception from this election showed.
    I honestly do not see why the Arizona law is so wrong. If a cop pulls you over for a misdemeanor, and you do not have a ID on you, The cop should be able to consider any number of things including if you are a illegal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    No usually the debates do not change the polls, Obama's pathetic debate just shocked everyone and made them question his Presidential credentials.
    Keep in mind before the debate, Romney wasn't polling in Reagan/Clinton-istic numbers and it wasn't possible for Romney to win in that way following the blunders in August and September. Don't be like Dick Morris who predicted a Romney landslide.


    Corporate Tax Rates? The same Corporate Tax Rates that are the highest in the world?

    http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/...s-economically
    And let me counter with that there are big corporations such as Verizon and General Electric that make big profits but don't pay taxes.

    I honestly do not see why the Arizona law is so wrong. If a cop pulls you over for a misdemeanor, and you do not have a ID on you, The cop should be able to consider any number of things including if you are a illegal.
    The law was only passed in Arizona because of the Republican supermajority and the problem is that can lead to racial profiling.

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