View Poll Results: Do you support Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?

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Thread: Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

  1. #2701
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheWatersGreatGuardian View Post
    My issue with taxing the rich more than anyone else is I think it will decrease motivation for people to try to get a job that will make a lot of money. and where is the stimulus money coming from? Enough spending.

    That's not how taxes work. Higher income jobs get a higher income, even after you deduct taxes. You can't get a higher income but earn less because of taxes, it's not possible.
    And the stimulus money comes from the tax hikes.
    Last edited by YourFavoriteUser; 3rd December 2012 at 10:59 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    That's not how taxes work. Higher income jobs get a higher income, even after you deduct taxes. You can't get a higher income but earn less because of taxes, it's not possible.
    And the stimulus money comes from the tax hikes.
    The problem comes when you have different tax brackets in a progressive tax system. If I make around $180,000 a year, and have the chance to expand within the next year or so, putting me at say $210,000 a year, but get hit by much higher taxes. I am going to hold off on it. It was the same problem with Obamacare in which they drew specific lines saying if you cross the line of say 50 employees or more, you have to pay X amount of health care. Well if you are sitting at 48, you are not going to be that inclined to hire more.

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    If rich people can't make lots of money, they'll want to make less money?

    I really don't understand republican logic.
    Jackpot!

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    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    If rich people can't make lots of money, they'll want to make less money?

    I really don't understand republican logic.
    Obviously you did not read my post about how for those on the edge, it may be more cost effective to make less money.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The problem comes when you have different tax brackets in a progressive tax system. If I make around $180,000 a year, and have the chance to expand within the next year or so, putting me at say $210,000 a year, but get hit by much higher taxes. I am going to hold off on it.
    So you wouldn't take a higher paying job because you'll be paying more taxes? Even though with or without the taxes you'd be making more income?
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    So you wouldn't take a higher paying job because you'll be paying more taxes? Even though with or without the taxes you'd be making more income?
    Who said you would be making more income? With large changes in the tax rates based on middle class and rich being a albartary line, a slight change going over that line could leave you making less overall.

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    who cares this dumb election is over i don't like either

    obama is a penis
    but mitty is a acid-spitting, marigold-sniffing penis with fangs

    obama but still who cares

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    Gallup: Dennis Jacobe: U.S. Small-Business Owners Pessimistic Post-Election

    Count small businesses out of the loop after the election, and President Barack Obama can only lurch ahead. The numbers above are what they are, but perhaps the rest of you have differing opinions on their importance. Gallup and Wells Fargo put this index together, and May was the highest point for the year. Of course, we’ve yet to get into future expectations.:

    • 21% of small business owners expecting decreasing jobs at their companies in next 12 months
    • 34% expecting decreasing capital spending from companies in next 12 months
    • 30% expecting “poor” cash flows and 28% expecting “poor” financial positions in next 12 months (highest percentages measured to date on both counts)

    If a weakened market intermixes with uncertainty as 2013 approaches, well, one imagines that Obama and his associates will find themselves stuck soon enough. A new recession is the only possible conclusion to reach from the gridlock in Washington, D.C., no matter what Congress does with the so-called “fiscal cliff”. Congressional unity may be more visible after what the United Nations just scheduled.:

    Hill Global Affairs: Julian Pecquet: Obama punts to Congress over repercussions for UN Palestine vote

    600 million is the magic number this time, as in $600 million, the stated amount of American aid. Concerns about the International Criminal Court have surfaced, and Senators Lindsey Graham, Chuck Schumer, John Barrasso, and Robert Menendez have written an amendment to an upcoming defense authorization bill shuttering the Palestinian Liberation Organization’s Washington, D.C., office. Some urgency, presumably unwanted, could spill from, say, Syria in the coming months.:

    Reuters: Russia, Turkey agree to differ over Syria conflict
    New York Times: Syria Moves Its Chemical Weapons, and U.S. and Allies Take Notice

    It looks like Russian President Vladimir Putin and Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan are a few tools short of containment for the coming bloodbath, and as I anticipated, the Kurds remain the biggest wild card for both authoritarian leaders. Russia appears to have shifted toward some semblance of neutrality toward Syria, and it’s providing a huge chunk of Turkey’s energy supplies, which could join both countries ever more tightly as winter starts blowing in. I would imagine that there are some fields for cooperation if any stockpiles of weapons of mass destruction are confirmed to be loose in that area, with at least some jihad groups racing each other to gain control over the things. Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu probably can’t move quickly enough in order to permanently rid the Middle East of this particular threat.:

    Atlantic: Jeffrey Goldberg: Israel Asked Jordan for Approval to Bomb Syrian WMD Sites

    As Israeli war plans circulate as steadily as the American and Israeli drones buzzing the skies near Syria, Jordanian intelligence agents are monitoring the rebels as closely as they can with the intent of countering Turkish- and Qatari-armed jihadists, probing for any weaknesses or openings that Israel will invariably utilize. Come to think of it, Jordan’s position relative to, say, Egypt could make it the last place separating the jihadists’ rampage from Bashar Al-Assad’s mounting fury before the various segments of the Islamic Community fully mobilize, even as their brethren explode across North Africa at the same time.:

    Daily Telegraph: Al-Qaeda ‘intensifying efforts to establish new base in Libya’
    Washington Post: In northern Mali, music silenced as Islamists drive out artists

    Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is reaching out to Ansar Al-Sharia, also as I anticipated, marking a sort of fiefdom from which Al-Qaeda operatives can get their hands on various anti-aircraft missiles left behind by Muammar Gaddafi. Some of these jihadists fought us in Iraq and are now transferring their experiences to… Syria. On the other side of the Sahara, Timbuktu has grown as soundless as the desert itself. The only music deemed permissible nowadays is set to Koranic verses, with the effect of shattering the once-lyrical culture there, and more modern incarnations have come to reflect concerns about “corruption and human rights abuses” anywhere still in Mali, as well as women trapped in war conditions. That may have been the point behind the Sharia supremacists’ ban on music, leaving any foreign musicians, such as U2, with few if any companions still in that beleaguered region. If music itself nullifies Islam, no matter the style, then it might only be a matter of time before the bloodbath closer to Libya and Egypt starts flowing west, blazing a path of carnage and terror, making further attention from President Barack Obama, Senators Mitch McConnell and Ted Cruz, and Congressman Michael McCaul, among other politicians, ever more necessary.
    Last edited by ccangelopearl1362; 4th December 2012 at 5:02 AM.
    Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Obviously you did not read my post about how for those on the edge, it may be more cost effective to make less money.
    You're right. I entered this page before you posted your post. I only saw your post after I posted my own post. I didn't edit my post, because my point still stands. Paying more taxes doesn't counteract that you're also making more money.
    Jackpot!

    I have a theory that the Pokémon world and the Mother world are one in the same. I won't go into spoilers for Mother 3, but think of Black and White's story of the dragon and the twins. Also, chimeras are kind of like Pokémon.

    Werster is without a doubt the Pokémon Master.

  10. #2710
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    BigLutz, this is for you.

    The way our tax system works, tax rates apply to marginal income.

    Let's say you make $180,000 per year right now and you're looking at a raise to $210,000, for example.

    Let's also assume, for simplistic purposes, that we have a tax bracket at 0% for under $100,000 a year, 10% for $100,000 or more, 20% for $150,000 or more, 30% for $200,000 or more, 40% for $300,000 or more, 50% for $400,000 or more, 60% for $500,000 or more, 70% for $600,000 or more, 80% for $700,000 or more, and 90% for anything above $800,000 per year.

    The way our tax system works, you get taxed nothing on the first $100,000 of income. You then get taxed 10% on the income from $100,000 to $150,000, or $5000. You then also get taxed 20% on anything between $150,000 to $200,000 and 30% on any income between 200,000 and $300,000.

    So if your current income is $180,000, you are taxed 10% on the income fom $100k to $150k, and then 20% on the remaining $30k which brings you to $180k. That's $5,000 and $6,000, for $11,000 total tax, bringing your after-tax income to $169,000.

    If you get a raise to $210,000, your taxes are the same 10% on the 100k to $150k, and 20% on the $150k to $200k, and then 30% of the remaining $10k before you hit $210k. That's $5,000 and $10,000, plus and additional $3,000 on the last $10k for a total $18,000 tax. Your after-tax income is now $192,000, which is higher than your before-tax income before the raise.


    A person making a million a year, under these numbers, would have this tax bill: $5,000 on the 10% bracket, $10,000 on the 20% bracket, $30,000 on the 30% bracket, $40,000 on the 40% bracket, $50,000 on the 50% bracket, $60,000 on the 60% bracket, $70,000 on the 70% bracket, $80,000 on the 80% bracket, and $180,000 on the 90% bracket. Their total taxes would amount to $525,000 (after-tax income of $475,000), but they would still make more than someone making $600,000 a year before taxes (after-tax income of $405,000) or even $800,000 per year (after-tax income of $465,000).


    Under a progressive tax system, it is impossible for your income to decrease because a raise put you in a new tax bracket because tax brackets apply to marginal income, meaning the income over the amount set as the barrier to the bracket.

    Quod Erat Demonstrandum.
    Last edited by General_Ridley; 4th December 2012 at 7:30 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Who said you would be making more income? With large changes in the tax rates based on middle class and rich being a albartary line, a slight change going over that line could leave you making less overall.
    No it wouldn't. As the article I posted and General Ridley both stated, that's not how our tax system works. It's impossible to for a higher income job to receive lower pay because of taxes. It just doesn't work like that.
    Last edited by YourFavoriteUser; 4th December 2012 at 10:51 PM.
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    Reuters: Qatar, Arab Spring sponsor, jails poet for life

    If Sharia supremacy is the only way to ensure the survival of the Islamic Community against globalization, then imprisoning the likes of Muhammad bin Al-Dheeb Al-Ajami could actually turn out to be more consistent than Amnesty International and Human Rights Watch could opine. With the House of Saud sidelined in its own backyard, Emir Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani actively encouraged the protests throughout North Africa and the Middle East through Al-Jazeera, but his subordinates believe that Ajami wanted something similar against them. Mr. Ajami wrote a poem expressing solidarity with Tunisia “in the face of the repressive elite”, as the specific line in question states. Anyone particularly curious about Thani’s intended direction can simply ask, say, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, who also has an Al-Jazeera presence. Then again, between China’s increased interest in Middle Eastern energy and the thousands of protesters outside Egypt’s presidential palace, perhaps Qaradawi’s dream will turn to be more chaotic than he’d want.:

    Fox News Channel: Egyptian President Morsi Leaves Presidential Palace as Protests Turn Violent

    The videos of the actual uproar I find as riveting as past ones ever since that Thanksgiving decree, and perhaps we need not imagine the situation on the ground for the protesters involved against any loyalists for the Muslim Brotherhood. President Muhammad Morsi headed out of the building after listening to his security team, and as protesters moved closer to the perimeter, the police didn’t attempt to push them back. Similar protests have popped up across Egypt, from Alexandria to Aswan, and television networks are joining their fellow media people in devising their own stance of solidarity, namely blackening their screens throughout this upcoming Wednesday. I’d call it real-time history, however grim the outcome will inevitably be, and other Sharia supremacists could leap ahead on their own to purify their own surroundings through bloodshed.:

    New York Times: Pakistan Reels with Violence against Shiites

    Calligraphers are busy carving tombstones in remembrance of Hazara Shiites gunned down by Sunni supremacists, and the deaths are gruesome in their variety: shop owners “gunned down at their counters, students as they play cricket, pilgrims dragged from buses and executed on the roadside”, without even any covers for the gunmen’s faces. The Hazaras are unsettled that the Pakistani state is failing to protect their community against this “cancerous sectarian ideology”, and as the bodies pile up, Lashkar-e-Jhangvi is the main terror group issuing pronouncements against Shiites, calling them “the greatest infidels” on the planet, in an eerie echo of none other than Muhammad Morsi himself, if my memory’s accurate. The Muslim Brotherhood could search for any elements within the Inter-Services Intelligence Directorate to work with, and an arc of sorts would form around the Arabian Peninsula and the Persian Gulf, tying any ships traversing the corresponding waterways down, demanding a response from the rest of the world. United States President Barack Obama and German Chancellor Angela Merkel would be just two world leaders needing headache relief if ships started avoiding that area completely.:

    Washington Post: A year later, a different Russia beckons

    The protesters in Russia have a conspicuous sense of timing, which might be why those factions are utilizing those corruption charges to the hilt. One Yelena Tkach has sought opinions on issues ranging from housing maintenance equipment to mapping green space, but along the way, she appears to have encountered a few bumps within Moscow’s government. Meanwhile, opposition activists have faced pressures from loyalists to President Vladimir Putin, such that the Russian state looks to be rumbling ever closer to flying apart in crackdown after crackdown, making any discussion of a “reset” rather impractical, I might think. If anyone has any ideas for timetables for how this will ultimately go, then I’m all ears.
    Last edited by ccangelopearl1362; 5th December 2012 at 6:57 AM.
    Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

  13. #2713
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    The problem comes when you have different tax brackets in a progressive tax system. If I make around $180,000 a year, and have the chance to expand within the next year or so, putting me at say $210,000 a year, but get hit by much higher taxes. I am going to hold off on it. It was the same problem with Obamacare in which they drew specific lines saying if you cross the line of say 50 employees or more, you have to pay X amount of health care. Well if you are sitting at 48, you are not going to be that inclined to hire more.
    There is a way to solve that though. (if the USA doesn't use this system already)

    -This is a system with made up numbers and this is supposed to be just an example-

    0-30000 You pay 22% taxes
    30000-50000 you pay 32%
    50000-100000 you pay 44%
    100000+ You pay 52%

    Let's say you earned 82000 a year.

    You would pay 22% on the first 30000
    32% on the 20000 between 30000 and 50000
    and 44% on the rest of your income.

    That way you won't lose money if you get payed more. You just get a "smaller" increase after taxes.
    Last edited by 7 tyranitars; 5th December 2012 at 7:23 PM.
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    38 Senate Republicans voted against a United Nations treaty on the rights of people with disabilities, even though GOP veterans such as Bob Dole, John McCain, Dick Lugar, and Bob Thornburgh supported the bill.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...n_2238181.html

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    Washington Post: Military intervention in Mali could begin in early 2013, Ivory Coast leader says
    New York Times: American Commander Details Al-Qaeda’s Strength in Mali

    As Ivorian President Alassane Ouattara and Chadian President Idriss Deby lead the mobilization against the jihadists in Mali, their neighbors may want some more time to think through their current options. France appears to be at the center of this possible operation, and even now, the troops in question are upgrading their exercises. Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb might be on its way to receiving reinforcements from Nigerian terrorists, namely Boko Haram, making for an ever bigger mess throughout North Africa. The other Islamic supremacists further to the northeast might need only a few detachments to consolidate their elements with the groups across Mali, from the Salafis to Al-Gamaa Al-Islamiya… all the way to the Al-Nusra Front, sidelining any more secular Muslims in the process. One wonders how quickly the Christians and the Alawites will simply decide to clear out should the Islamists in Syria rally behind, say, Muhammad Morsi, Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, or Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani, which could go on to endanger, say, the Shiites. Sadly, I’m not certain that we can count on much help from certain German companies.:

    Weekly Standard: Benjamin Weinthal and Emanuele Ottolenghi: An Unholy Alliance

    Name Herrenknecht AG as the main culprit for one of the troublesome transactions mentioned, in which it sold two machines capable of drilling tunnels to expand Tehran’s metro system… or escape routes for nuclear enrichment activities. The Islamic Revolutionary Guards still hold a sizable portion of Iran’s markets, meaning that they’re the ones getting their hands on all of this equipment. I should be able to remember this during our war against Iran, but former Wyoming Senator Alan Simpson and Detroit Councilwoman JoAnn Watson may have taken care of that issue on a slightly different battlefield.:

    Business Insider: Walter Hickey: Here’s Former Senator Alan Simpson Dancing to ‘Gangnam Style’
    Fox News Channel: Detroit Councilwoman to Obama: We Voted for You, Now Bail Us Out

    I’ve played that first clip at least a few times, and even today, the thought of it has yours truly in stitches… perhaps especially because, with respect to Senator Simpson, there’s a sense of implacability among those who supported the President during the election, such as Councilwoman Watson, evidently enough. She said that “there ought to be a quid pro quo” regarding Detroit’s financial fiascoes, citing a political figure who “came home with some bacon” during his time in Washington, D.C., a quote which got clamors of approval from the other councilpersons around her. I can only wonder how quickly Detroit and other cities would supposedly deteriorate if the funds in question didn’t appear, but I doubt she’ll be too happy with the current gridlock in America’s capital.
    Last edited by ccangelopearl1362; 9th December 2012 at 3:19 AM.
    Babylon 5, Codename: Kids Next Door, 24, and now, My Little Pony: Friendship is Magic. I am many things at once, and many people might have different opinions about little, old me. If freedom is my main idea, then harmony, individuality, and modernization are the three attributes I now sense and track. Those three attributes and that idea combined to make the United States of America a great global superpower and Pearlshipping and Wishfulshipping great Pokémon couples, and now, they've combined to make those four shows truly great television programs to me. I will enjoy enthusiastically supporting the Equestrian ponies' adventures for peace, for humankind, for the future.

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    I like those pictures so much. Save it as my pc background. Wonderful!!!!!!!!!

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    Well this is rich. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell filibustered himself after he proposed a deal in raising the debt ceiling.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...p_ref=politics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Well this is rich. Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell filibustered himself after he proposed a deal in raising the debt ceiling.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...p_ref=politics
    Honestly he should let the Senate vote on it, the idiotic proposal by Obama is poison to those Senate Democrats in red states that are up for election in 2014, and it has no chance of getting through the House anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Honestly he should let the Senate vote on it, the idiotic proposal by Obama is poison to those Senate Democrats in red states that are up for election in 2014, and it has no chance of getting through the House anyway.
    Yeah let them vote on it and the vote kills it, we won't have time for a second vote and we go over the cliff. Then we can wait to see if in 2016 or even 2020 will be better for the GOP who killed the economy as we slide into another recession.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Yeah let them vote on it and the vote kills it, we won't have time for a second vote and we go over the cliff. Then we can wait to see if in 2016 or even 2020 will be better for the GOP who killed the economy as we slide into another recession.
    Right now it seems like the Democrats are more willing to go over the cliff than Republicans, as it gives them everything they want.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 7th December 2012 at 6:00 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Right now it seems like the Democrats are more willing to go over the cliff than Republicans, as it gives them everything they want.
    Of course it does. Let the economy go over the cliff and in 2014 we can kick out the last of the GOP. Then decrease taxes to everyone who makes under 250,000 a year and cut military spending, Create a stimulus plan and cure the recession. How can the GOP ever win its way back if that happens. Best thing to do when you are in a lions den is attack the Gazelle as well. If you can act like a Lion long enough the Hyenas will make it back . If GOP wants to survive they need to let Obama do as he wants and just give a verbal shout that they are doing it against there conscious. Then when it fails they can take back over in 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Of course it does. Let the economy go over the cliff and in 2014 we can kick out the last of the GOP. Then decrease taxes to everyone who makes under 250,000 a year and cut military spending, Create a stimulus plan and cure the recession. How can the GOP ever win its way back if that happens. Best thing to do when you are in a lions den is attack the Gazelle as well. If you can act like a Lion long enough the Hyenas will make it back . If GOP wants to survive they need to let Obama do as he wants and just give a verbal shout that they are doing it against there conscious. Then when it fails they can take back over in 2014.
    Except Obama's plan is so horribly bad, that it would be better to go over the cliff than to pass it. Also you assume that the GOP in the next few years will be blamed for this. Especially when the Democrats have more seats to defend than the GOP in the Senate in 2014.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Except Obama's plan is so horribly bad, that it would be better to go over the cliff than to pass it. Also you assume that the GOP in the next few years will be blamed for this. Especially when the Democrats have more seats to defend than the GOP in the Senate in 2014.
    Lets assume that Obama's plan is worse then going over the cliff. Can you prove it 100%? If not then how do you expect americans to see it when they see that the one plan to stop the financial problem is voted down. Also in a PR battle the Democrats are better equipped than Republicans. It won't matter the amount of seats if the GOP gets the label as the ones who killed the economy. Better to go with the flow and hope for the best while voicing the worst. Best case scenario the economy doesn't take a hit. Worst case and the Republicans can take the house and senate in a few years.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Lets assume that Obama's plan is worse then going over the cliff. Can you prove it 100%?
    It gives away the ability to raise the debt ceiling away, one of the key tools that Congress has to haggle over spending, it promises nothing in terms of dealing with entitlements, and it does not significantly address our spending problems. The fact that it gives away the ability to raise the debt ceiling alone makes it worse than going over.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    If not then how do you expect americans to see it when they see that the one plan to stop the financial problem is voted down. Also in a PR battle the Democrats are better equipped than Republicans. It won't matter the amount of seats if the GOP gets the label as the ones who killed the economy. Better to go with the flow and hope for the best while voicing the worst. Best case scenario the economy doesn't take a hit. Worst case and the Republicans can take the house and senate in a few years.
    You assume that the Democrats will win this PR battle, right now many Democrats are looking like they WANT to go over the fiscal cliff, while the Republicans are struggling to stave it off. Such a thing does not bode well for a long term PR battle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    It gives away the ability to raise the debt ceiling away, one of the key tools that Congress has to haggle over spending, it promises nothing in terms of dealing with entitlements, and it does not significantly address our spending problems. The fact that it gives away the ability to raise the debt ceiling alone makes it worse than going over.



    You assume that the Democrats will win this PR battle, right now many Democrats are looking like they WANT to go over the fiscal cliff, while the Republicans are struggling to stave it off. Such a thing does not bode well for a long term PR battle.
    The debt ceiling would more then likely be negotiated out if deals were to begin. However the Democrats are willing to cut entitlements by 400 billion, A great start. However Republicans are unwilling for any tax hikes. This must be resolved and the american people would blame the Gop by 54 percent.

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    LIGHT SIDE HAS CUPCAKES
    DARK SIDE OFFERS COOKIES
    JOIN THE DERPY SIDE.... WE GOT MUFFINS

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