Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

[BigLutz]

Perhaps, but then they would have lost this one aswell, which they didn't.

By that argument if the Republicans win in 2014 they have no problem with their message, and if they win in 2016 it is the Democrats that have the massive message problem.

Even a conservative party needs to move forward sometimes, because former voters will be replaced by people with differend views. Not to mention that being in favor of a more strict immigration system does not win you the latino vote. That could work if you stop the latino vote from becoming to big of a factor but it is too late for it.

So the Republicans should pander to the Latinos by ignoring the law like the Democrats? Do you realize how poorly that makes the Latinos look? But the thing is that being more in favor of the terribly unfair thing called Amnesty will not get you more Latino votes. 1986 Reagan gave 3 million people Amnesty, in 1988 George HW Bush did not win the Latino vote. In 2006 John McCain was one of the ones leading the charge on amnesty and immigration reform, in 2008 he failed to win the Latino vote.

But that isn't all, there are more things that didn't really help the GOP out. Remember those inteligent remarks about rape not making women pregnant that some of the senators from the gop said,namely Richard Mourdock and Todd Akin? Both got defeated.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain what Richard Mourdock said that was so wrong.

But most importantly when you can't win an election with the economy in the crapper, either that is not true or you did something wrong as a candidate or a political party.

Or more realistically the public did not blame the incumbent for the economy being in the crapper.

2010 it was a attempt at getting rid of the ones in power, and it got worse.

The Democrats were the ones swept out of power, so again what does that say about their message?

Maybe reality has a liberal agenda

Care to explain then why the liberal economic policy is so divorced from reality then?

[Bolt the Cat]

And I am still waiting for someone to explain what Richard Mourdock said that was so wrong.

That God intended for people to be born through rape.

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-...,6070430.story

Or more realistically the public did not blame the incumbent for the economy being in the crapper.

Wasn't his fault. The economy tanked before Obama took office.

[BigLutz]

That God intended for people to be born through rape.

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-...,6070430.story

So if I go up to a person who was born from a rape and say "God didn't intend for you to be born" would that person or anyone else agree with me? Again I do not see what was wrong with what he said in a religious sense. Is rape wrong? Of course. But if one is to believe God is the creator of all life, and that horrific attack results in life, then God intended for that pregnancy to happen.

Wasn't his fault. The economy tanked before Obama took office.

Never said it was? Now it's fault that we are having a prolonged malaze of a recovery and thus putting us in a position for a even harder recession, but the public is still willing to give him a chance to fix it.

[PokeJustice]

Well maybe they can stretch their values a bit to appeal to all Christians instead of fundamentalists. And if they did that, I think Latinos would gravitate to the Republicans as opposed to the atheistic Democrats. At any rate, I think the Republicans need to change something in their party platform if they don't want to fade into obscurity.

I don't think the nominal Catholicism of Mexicans, Central Americans, Puerto Ricans, et al. plays much of a role in their voting habits. Even whites who identify as Catholic aren't really any more conservative than whites in general.

Latinos wouldn't vote Republican even if the immigration issue dropped off the radar tomorrow. Republicans seem to enjoy pretending that Latinos are stupid and vote for a party they largely disagree with just because they think the other party is nativist or something. Latinos aren't stupid, they vote Democratic because that's where they line up politically. They aren't interested in a party that wants to increase defense spending while cutting welfare spending. They aren't interested in a party whose last presidential candidate came out strongly against any sort of foreclosure relief.

[I am Lu]

That God intended for people to be born through rape.

http://www.latimes.com/health/la-na-...,6070430.story

Er, well, when word it like that, you make it sound like he said God intended all people to be born of rape.

What Mourdock actually said (and it's still equally disgusting) is that in cases in which pregnancy is a result in rape, the baby should still be born because God intended for that pregnancy to happen. Basically, he's using God as a ploy in his anti-abortion argument.

[Gothitelle K]

Er, well, when word it like that, you make it sound like he said God intended all people to be born of rape.

What Mourdock actually said (and it's still equally disgusting) is that in cases in which pregnancy is a result in rape, the baby should still be born because God intended for that pregnancy to happen. Basically, he's using God as a ploy in his anti-abortion argument.

Which, I agree that the baby should be born, however the way he said it was iffy.

[ebilly99]

Hmmm....an "old white men" straw man argument plus a blatant exaggeration that "anyone who uses facts" agrees with liberal ol' you. And you top it off by mimicking the meme in someone's sig? Do you really call that enlightenment and critical thinking?

Old white man, lets see if it's true.
Hispanic---- D
African american---D
Females ----D
Youth--------D
Jewish vote-D
Athiest-------D
Males over 65-R
Fundimental--R

Now lets look at the facts.
Evolution---------D
Global warming--D
Creationism-------R
Religion------------R

Also I did not notice that signature but do what you want.

[I am Lu]

Which, I agree that the baby should be born, however the way he said it was iffy.

Well, in my opinion, if it's not you in that situation, then it's not your - nor anyone else's - choice to make.

[BigLutz]

Old white man, lets see if it's true.
Hispanic---- D
African american---D
Females ----D
Youth--------D
Jewish vote-D
Athiest-------D
Males over 65-R
Fundimental--R

Now lets look at the facts.
Evolution---------D
Global warming--D
Creationism-------R
Religion------------R

Also I did not notice that signature but do what you want.

You group all females in but you forget that Soccer Mom's tend to vote Republican.

[Gothitelle K]

But most of us girls are feminazis

Well, in my opinion, if it's not you in that situation, then it's not your - nor anyone else's - choice to make.

Like, I'm going to force someone to do something they don't want...

[I am Lu]

Like, I'm going to force someone to do something they don't want...

I'm sorry, I didn't mean to suggest you were trying to.

[ebilly99]

By that argument if the Republicans win in 2014 they have no problem with their message, and if they win in 2016 it is the Democrats that have the massive message problem.

If the Republicans do not change drasticely and lose everything then yes they do. Null point as we can not see the future. Dead end.

So the Republicans should pander to the Latinos by ignoring the law like the Democrats? Do you realize how poorly that makes the Latinos look? But the thing is that being more in favor of the terribly unfair thing called Amnesty will not get you more Latino votes. 1986 Reagan gave 3 million people Amnesty, in 1988 George HW Bush did not win the Latino vote. In 2006 John McCain was one of the ones leading the charge on amnesty and immigration reform, in 2008 he failed to win the Latino vote.

Or you know make it so that Latinos that are here legally aren't treated as a pariah and by allowing easier ways for mexicans to become citizens. We need a more workers to replace the baby boomers when the economy recovers. Makeing it easier to become legal will also give more choices to get rid of the ones that are still getting in illegal.

And I am still waiting for someone to explain what Richard Mourdock said that was so wrong.

He is saying God wanted the girl to get raped and you ask why is that bad. How about we stop believing in fantasy and just admit that rape is bad.

Or more realistically the public did not blame the incumbent for the economy being in the crapper.

Like it or not the economy is better.

The Democrats were the ones swept out of power, so again what does that say about their message?

The message is that we can not expect change over night.

Care to explain then why the liberal economic policy is so divorced from reality then?

Putting more money into circulation of those who actually can spend it is a bad idea?

[Bolt the Cat]

Er, well, when word it like that, you make it sound like he said God intended all people to be born of rape.

Really? Well that's not what I meant.

What Mourdock actually said (and it's still equally disgusting) is that in cases in which pregnancy is a result in rape, the baby should still be born because God intended for that pregnancy to happen. Basically, he's using God as a ploy in his anti-abortion argument.

God is pretty much the cornerstone of every pro-life argument.

[ebilly99]

You group all females in but you forget that Soccer Mom's tend to vote Republican.

What the heck is a soccor mom anyway.

[PokeJustice]

Falling in behind "comprehensive immigration reform" won't help Republicans with Hispanics and will most certainly cost them what's left of their base. I see more potential for Republican growth among (non-Muslim) Asians than among any other minority group, too bad the Asian share of the vote isn't yet sizable enough to matter

[Bolt the Cat]

What the heck is a soccor mom anyway.

Pretty much overprotective fundamentalist parents that believe that the government should make everything safe for their kids.

Falling in behind "comprehensive immigration reform" won't help Republicans with Hispanics and will most certainly cost them what's left of their base. I see more potential for Republican growth among (non-Muslim) Asians than among any other minority group, too bad the Asian share of the vote isn't yet sizable enough to matter

The Asian demographic hasn't really been growing as substantially as the Latinos, but I can see that happening in maybe 10 years or so.

[BigLutz]

If the Republicans do not change drasticely and lose everything then yes they do. Null point as we can not see the future. Dead end.

We did not know the future of the 2012 elections in 2008 which was my point.

Or you know make it so that Latinos that are here legally aren't treated as a pariah and by allowing easier ways for mexicans to become citizens. We need a more workers to replace the baby boomers when the economy recovers. Makeing it easier to become legal will also give more choices to get rid of the ones that are still getting in illegal.

Why do we need to focus on making it easier for Mexicans becoming citizens? Should we not make it easier for all and punish those that tried to skip the line?

He is saying God wanted the girl to get raped and you ask why is that bad.

No he is saying God wanted the pregnancy to happen, not all rape results in pregnancy. And again I ask, would you go up to a child of a rape victim and say "God did not want you to be alive"?

How about we stop believing in fantasy and just admit that rape is bad.

Who is saying it isn't?

Like it or not the economy is better.

Do you consider 8% unemployment better? 14 to 16% Underemployment better? Do you consider barely making natural growth better? I call that sitting on the knife's edge of recession.

The message is that we can not expect change over night.

No the message is that the public does not want big Government policies like Obamacare, again should the Democrats change their views on that after losing soundly for enacting Obamacare in 2010?

Putting more money into circulation of those who actually can spend it is a bad idea?

So giving those who can help the economy more money is a good idea? Watch out, you support "Old White Men" economic policies!

[Bolt the Cat]

No he is saying God wanted the pregnancy to happen, not all rape results in pregnancy. And again I ask, would you go up to a child of a rape victim and say "God did not want you to be alive"?

Wanting the pregnancy to happen means wanting the rape to happen as well. And who's to say that that child couldn't have been born from a pregnancy that wasn't caused by rape?

Who is saying it isn't?

You, Mourdock, and everyone else that believes that rape resulting in preganacy is good.

[ebilly99]

We did not know the future of the 2012 elections in 2008 which was my point.

But there was evidence that the right was shrinking.

Why do we need to focus on making it easier for Mexicans becoming citizens? Should we not make it easier for all and punish those that tried to skip the line?

No becuase we don't have a problem with Legal Latinos, we have a problem with illegal ones. Also lets face it the problem today is to much to handle. It is only possible to change momentum by allowing more americans to join.

No he is saying God wanted the pregnancy to happen, not all rape results in pregnancy. And again I ask, would you go up to a child of a rape victim and say "God did not want you to be alive"?

I do not believe in God, and I don't think others should force morality down my throat. If I met a rape victim I would judge them for there deeds. I would tell them that the way they lived there life is more important then the way they were born.

Who is saying it isn't?

Those who think that if God exist he cares

Do you consider 8% unemployment better? 14 to 16% Underemployment better? Do you consider barely making natural growth better? I call that sitting on the knife's edge of recession.

Yes it is better then decline.

No the message is that the public does not want big Government policies like Obamacare, again should the Democrats change their views on that after losing soundly for enacting Obamacare in 2010?

You say we don't want Obamacare yet democrats totally slaughtered the republicans.

So giving those who can help the economy more money is a good idea? Watch out, you support "Old White Men" economic policies!

Um no, I support proping up the middle and poor class and forcing those that take advantage of the tax code to pay there fair share. I support reform in the tax and the government aid but do not support dropping it completely.

[Sir_Floating_Anchor]

Romney is much brighter economic-wise from my understanding, but I don't mind paying a bit more for someone with a more egalitarian mind