View Poll Results: Do you support Barack Obama or Mitt Romney?

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  • Barack Obama

    230 72.78%
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Thread: Obama Vs. Romney: 2012 US Election

  1. #2751
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    Because Economic Strength =/= having a flawless health care system, again another red herring on your part.
    What problem exactly does Canadian health care have?
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    They can also prevent jobs through burdensome regulations like what Obama has been putting up.
    And yet no regulation allowed the BP oil mess we are still cleaning up and paying for.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    Neither of those fix the fundamental problems with it.
    Please explain the problem. By raising the age to that beyond the average age limit you elimintate a lot of users.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    Yes Reagan would be turning in his grave right now at seeing how radical of a President we have right now. Lets not forget what Reagan's views on socialized medicine and Liberalism was.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S0NWqvRidlk
    And what did Reagan do that Obama hasn't.
    Here is what Obama has done. -Gave Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants
    -Negotiated with Terrorists
    -Raised Taxes on a Large Scale Four Times
    -Negotiated with the "Evil Empire" without Pre-conditions
    -Made a Decision to "Cut and Run"

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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    What problem exactly does Canadian health care have?
    I would suggest watching this part of 20/20 to understand it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9u2UU6-wlk

    or this documentary by Steven Crowder

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q2jijuj1ysw

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    And yet no regulation allowed the BP oil mess we are still cleaning up and paying for.
    Really? Are you saying there is NO regulation in oil drilling?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Please explain the problem. By raising the age to that beyond the average age limit you elimintate a lot of users.
    Except people continue to grow older and older, you are merely kicking the can down the road especially as we have a rising number of elderly, and a smaller birth rate.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    And what did Reagan do that Obama hasn't.
    Here is what Obama has done. -Gave Amnesty to Illegal Immigrants
    Of which he was promised by the Democrats that we would close down the border to prevent more illegal immigration, how did that work out?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    -Negotiated with Terrorists
    Are you saying that Obama has NEVER negotiated with terrorists? That should surprise the Taliban

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    -Raised Taxes on a Large Scale Four Times
    And also massively lowered it even through a Democratic Congress.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    -Negotiated with the "Evil Empire" without Pre-conditions
    And? Soviet Union =/= Iran in status or power.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    -Made a Decision to "Cut and Run"
    And? Seriously this seems to be ANOTHER of your red herrings in terms of avoiding a true debate.
    Last edited by BigLutz; 12th December 2012 at 3:57 AM.

  3. #2753
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    I would suggest watching this part of 20/20 to understand it.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l9u2UU6-wlk



    Really? Are you saying there is NO regulation in oil drilling?
    I am saying they were not good enough.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post


    Except people continue to grow older and older, you are merely kicking the can down the road especially as we have a rising number of elderly, and a smaller birth rate.
    You do realize that people die, don't you. If you make it so that it is rare to reach retirement age you end the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    Of which he was promised by the Democrats that we would close down the border to prevent more illegal immigration, how did that work out?
    Pretty good, more mexicians are heading home than entering during obamas 4 years.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    Are you saying that Obama has NEVER negotiated with terrorists? That should surprise the Taliban
    Yeah I am sure it would, got a link?
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    And also massively lowered it even through a Democratic Congress.
    Kind of like how Obama allowed a massive tax loss for 4 years and now wants to raise it.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    And? Soviet Union =/= Iran in status or power.
    Point, is evil evil or not.
    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post



    And? Seriously this seems to be ANOTHER of your red herrings in terms of avoiding a true debate.
    Why do you call them red Herrings? I have added things true, but I have not detered from the filibuster. A flawed system that has outlived it's purpose.

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  4. #2754
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    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    I am saying they were not good enough.
    How about the mere fact of human error?

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    You do realize that people die, don't you. If you make it so that it is rare to reach retirement age you end the problem.
    Are we going to hold off medicine to contribute to such death? If not you still have the problem that people are living longer and will continue to do so as we event new medicine. And again you have not answer the fact that with a lower birth rate you are growing into a Europe style problem of more takers than makers.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Pretty good, more mexicians are heading home than entering during obamas 4 years.
    And when the economy turns around they will come back.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Yeah I am sure it would, got a link?
    http://thecable.foreignpolicy.com/po..._talks_ongoing

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Kind of like how Obama allowed a massive tax loss for 4 years and now wants to raise it.
    Not so, Reagan's raising in taxes was largely based on negotiations with a Democratic Congress to cut the budget, the same cannot be said here.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Point, is evil evil or not.
    Point is that one is a equal in strength and power and thus one does not lower itself to negotiate with another, same cannot be said about Iran.

    Quote Originally Posted by ebilly99 View Post
    Why do you call them red Herrings? I have added things true, but I have not detered from the filibuster. A flawed system that has outlived it's purpose.
    You are largely avoiding the subject, invoking health care in Canada and Reagan to avoid losing the argument. But again you have not addressed one thing I continue to say, are you willing to have the system taken away when Republicans have power in the Senate again? When they can pass through what ever Right Wing bill they want merely by their simple majority?

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    Fox News Channel: US Egyptian Christians Fear for Faith under Morsi’s Islamist Agenda
    New York Times: Morsi’s Opponents Describe Abuse by President’s Allies

    Huh. I thought that this could happen as the Muslim Brotherhood and the Salafis overran Egypt, and now, it appears to be happening. Coptic Christians have applied for asylum in greater numbers in the wake of the Islamic implosions throughout North Africa and the Middle East. The Coptic Orthodox Church is considered one of the oldest of its kind on Earth, dating back to… the early 450s, evidently. Supreme Guide Mohammed Badie, Sheikh Yusuf Al-Qaradawi, and Qatari Emir Hamad bin Khalifa Al-Thani could call for as much Sharia as they could find, and its totality would freeze those regions in its grip, consigning Tunisian President Moncef Marzouki, United Arab Emirates President Khalifa bin Zayed Al-Nahyan, and the like to oblivion, for all practical purposes. At least American President Barack Obama himself might have a few new maneuvers in pursuit of a path that thinks ahead of those aforementioned Islamists.:

    Foreign Policy: Aaron Zelin: Rally ‘Round the Jihadist

    The Al-Nusra Front is now a designated terror group, but the Syrian themselves remain focused on Bashar Assad’s military units as the true terrorizing force. The Muslim Brotherhood’s Syria branch has naturally condemned this designation, and the Al-Nusra Front itself is reportedly providing social services, which could very well persuade other Muslims across Syria to start backing it more actively. By this point in time, Assad has settled on causing as much destruction as he can, leaving any jihadists still there without much on which they could build a Sharia state. A different case study in failed statehood could already be happening to the west.:

    Reuters: Mali PM forced to quit as army strengthens grip

    Leave it to yours truly to acknowledge that Cheick Modibo Diarra was a complete unknown to me… until Captain Amadou Sanogo and the other soldiers behind that coup earlier this year forced him out of his job just yesterday. The prevalent perception is that a military junta has taken control of Mali, and France, the United Nations, and other entities could attempt to head off whatever Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb is planning. The North African Caliphate, the Islamic Federation of North Africa, or whatever title the Islamic terrorists use for their supposed fiefdom might not mean much else at this point, and they might not be the only area of the world shaping up to become an ungovernable morass.:

    Jamestown Foundation: Pavel Baev: Russia Steps and Slips into Foreign Policy Limbo

    Apparently, Russian President Vladimir Putin was considering that visit to Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan as early as September, but when Putin criticized that Patriot missile battery deployment against Syria earlier this month, Erdogan gave him a brush-off. Putin didn’t fare any better later in his trip, where his Turkmen counterpart reportedly spent some of his country’s energy revenues on some opulent VIP palaces. In Eastern Europe, Ukraine is now at a similar level to Syria in perceptions of corruption, and Prime Minister Mykola Azarov tried to get a contract to build a liquefied natural gas terminal… only to discover that the entire deal was a fraud, resulting in the dissolution of the government, including the resignation of Azarov himself. For Russia’s part, it’s at a similar level to Iran and Honduras in corruption perception, which leaves Putin as “the focal point of mutually reinforcing” discontentment among the many factions now clamoring for control of Russia. Either he could crush these factions completely and end as the only figure of any import up there, or any of those factions could overrun him without being able to exert any influence over the others. The Obama administration’s notion of “resetting” the relationship between these two countries would become impractical, and any efforts to slow down the technological transition would end up just as deadlocked, which could even be why union operatives are mobilizing across America to make as much noise as possible leading up to Inauguration Day 2013.:

    Daily Caller: Neil Munro: White House declines to condemn union violence in Michigan
    National Review: Robert Costa: Inside the Boehner-Ryan Alliance

    The fact that these unions even consider the violence, such as an attack against one Steven Crowder, necessary could likely mean a loss of faith beforehand, and I wouldn’t be surprised if they found any sympathizers among socialists in, say, Egypt. It’ll be all that the Obama administration can do to prevent a meltdown, and Congressmen John Boehner and Paul Ryan could need to hunker down as time rolls on. Whereas Boehner’s been pressing Obama for various cuts, presumably related to health entitlements, Ryan has avoided any visibility on news networks. Their staffers regularly communicate with each other, so if Boehner’s planning anything about this fiscal cliff, then Ryan should know something about it. As for the rest of the country, well, depending on the level of resentment against those trends I’ve tracked, Boehner and Ryan could be out of time already.
    Last edited by ccangelopearl1362; 13th December 2012 at 12:24 AM.
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  6. #2756
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    So according to a revised CRS study, there was little evidence that Bush Tax Cuts spurred growth. Also, the lower rates that were in place since 2001 had a strong impact in increasing income equality.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...p_ref=politics

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    So according to a revised CRS study, there was little evidence that Bush Tax Cuts spurred growth. Also, the lower rates that were in place since 2001 had a strong impact in increasing income equality.

    http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/1...p_ref=politics
    So how do they explain this: GDP grew at an annual rate of just 1.7 percent in the six quarters before the 2003 tax cuts. In the six quarters following the tax cuts, the growth rate was 4.1 percent.

    or

    The economy lost 267,000 jobs in the six quarters before the 2003 tax cuts. In the next six quarters, it added 307,000 jobs, followed by 5 million jobs in the next seven quarters.

    http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-bush-tax-cuts

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    .dotcom bubble, popping, BigLutz. Then recovering before the cuts.
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  9. #2759
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    Quote Originally Posted by Byzantine View Post
    .dotcom bubble, popping, BigLutz. Then recovering before the cuts.
    So the recovery started at the EXACT same time as the tax cuts what a freaking coincidence you would think one may have caused another!

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    So how do they explain this: GDP grew at an annual rate of just 1.7 percent in the six quarters before the 2003 tax cuts. In the six quarters following the tax cuts, the growth rate was 4.1 percent.

    or

    The economy lost 267,000 jobs in the six quarters before the 2003 tax cuts. In the next six quarters, it added 307,000 jobs, followed by 5 million jobs in the next seven quarters.

    http://www.heritage.org/research/rep...-bush-tax-cuts
    Ah, Heritage Foundation. Didn't Jim DeMint resigned as Senator to become head of the conservative organization? On top of that, you choose to use a conservative source over a nonpartisan source.

    I'm trying to say that times are changing. There are even some Congressional Republicans I mentioned that are willing to take the option in raising taxes on the wealthy.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    So the recovery started at the EXACT same time as the tax cuts what a freaking coincidence you would think one may have caused another!
    2 nearly simultaneous events does not explicitly imply one was the catalyst of the other.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    Ah, Heritage Foundation. Didn't Jim DeMint resigned as Senator to become head of the conservative organization? On top of that, you choose to use a conservative source over a nonpartisan source.

    I'm trying to say that times are changing. There are even some Congressional Republicans I mentioned that are willing to take the option in raising taxes on the wealthy.
    No doubt but do you deny that the tax cuts played a role in turning around the economy in 2003?

    Quote Originally Posted by spyro and sonic View Post
    2 nearly simultaneous events does not explicitly imply one was the catalyst of the other.
    No doubt but when we look at what turned around the economy we need to look for a catalyst, unless you can provide a different one, a large set of tax cuts seems to be the only available explanation.

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    I swear that I'm not trolling here. And I'm not trying to derail the topic (granted, it's already been derailed, so that's a moot point). But I just have to know. How is this topic still open when the election has been over for more than a month?
    Last edited by SBaby; 15th December 2012 at 7:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigLutz View Post
    No doubt but do you deny that the tax cuts played a role in turning around the economy in 2003?
    But we went from a surplus to the deficit as a result if we keep the tax cuts going. It also turns out the tax cuts boosted income inequality.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Silver Soul View Post
    But we went from a surplus to the deficit as a result if we keep the tax cuts going. It also turns out the tax cuts boosted income inequality.
    No we went to a decifit because of the . Com bubble and 9/11 infact if the tax cuts did help the economy out of the malaise then it did more to bring in income to the government by spurring the economy than if they weren't put in place

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    Quote Originally Posted by SBaby View Post
    I swear that I'm not trolling here. And I'm not trying to derail the topic (granted, it's already been derailed, so that's a moot point). But I just have to know. How is this topic still open when the election has been over for more than a month?
    Because people are still debating. Personally, I think that this should be closed and replaced with a thread on the Obama administration.


    Anyway, it looks like John Kerry has been nominated for Secretary of State.
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    Personally, I think that this should be closed and replaced with a thread on the Obama administration.
    I’m now under the impression that we’ve turned it into a sort of all-purpose thread discussing American – and international – politics, which oddly suits me, personally speaking. The vote on November 6 convinced me that Mitt Romney, Rick Santorum, and the other Republican presidential candidates for this election had run out of time in seeking to carry the United States into an information society as smoothly as humanly possible, and on a different note, there may be some who increasingly suspect that Barack Obama is sounding more and more like… Woodrow Wilson during his second term. For my part, after everything I’ve tracked throughout this past year, I’m at a point at which I can state with certainty that I would pity either Obama or Romney, but at least one front in North America could become clear soon.:

    Washington Post: Solar firms probed for possible ‘misrepresentations’ in getting public money
    Wall Street Journal Washington Wire: Keith Johnson: Lugar Sees Natural Gas as Tool in U.S. Arsenal

    Count SolarCity, SunRun, and Sungevity out of President Obama’s green energy initiative, and at a total of $500 million, they remind me of Solyndra by itself. They were based in California and Arizona, and they “collected hundreds of millions of dollars in federal cash grants” for the purpose of building wind farms, solar panels, and other supposed sources of green energy in America. That said, some leaders within this industry had prices higher than the broader market rate, charging up to $7-8 per watt as opposed to $5 per watt. Barry Cinnamon, who used to lead Westinghouse Solar, was among those expressing concerns that some of these executives were using the program improperly, and among the companies partnering with these ones are Google, Credit Suisse, and Citigroup. SolarCity donated $579,000 to Obama’s campaigns in 2008 and 2012, so if these energy projects fail, then any investors might not need long to clear out before the entire project implodes. Natural gas looks better by comparison, especially with the Russians and the countries of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization squaring off. Richard Lugar has a new bill attempting to make American natural gas easier to export to NATO members who don’t yet have free trade agreements with America. Already, the British and the Spaniards signed up for this deal, and one other country cited as being likely to get sidelined is Iran. Another country may be on its way there soon enough, setting off even more dominoes across the Islamic Middle East into North Africa.:

    Reuters: SocGen sells Egypt arm to QNB for $2 billion
    Ahram: Diplomats ponder the good and the bad on Egypt’s constitution debate

    As Qatar National Bank gets itself a new stake, Societe Generale is pulling back to attempt to build up its capital reserves, and the most likely reason for any disruptions is that constitutional referendum. For QNB’s part, its market value is somewhere around $26 billion, enabling it to expand across the region, if with a few setbacks here and there. A personal visit from Hamad Al-Thani would be all that Muhammad Morsi and Mohammed Badie would need to cement the view throughout the rest of the Middle East that Qatar and the Muslim Brotherhood are far worthier of leadership than, say, the House of Saud, but they’d probably further split Egypt in the process. American and European diplomats will likely need contingency plans of their own to extract as many people as possible, as will Egyptian diplomats. The Muslim Brotherhood sought to rally Egyptians abroad in favor of the draft constitution, and I’d have to guess the Salafis are still waiting in the wings, precisely because they won’t have much of a choice left to them.:

    Fox News Channel: State Department Preparing for Libya Bombshell?
    New York Times: Members of Assad’s Sect Blamed in Syria Killings

    Ambassador Susan Rice is no longer under consideration to replace Hillary Clinton at the State Department, making the likes of Utah Congressman Jason Chaffetz suspicious, especially about this upcoming report about that Benghazi attack. Florida Congresswoman Ileana Ros-Lehtinen has scheduled a hearing this upcoming Thursday, leaving the rest of Congress to inquire further about American activities throughout the Islamic Community. They might need some additional questions to cover Syria as the Alawites start turning on each other. At least 125 civilians were killed in that massacre, believed to have been perpetrated by forces loyal to Bashar Assad himself, thereby elevating death over life. There may not be many practical differences left as the factions involved continue their rampages.:

    British Broadcasting Corporation: Mali intervention by Ecowas: Refugee fears

    The Inter-Agency Standing Committee has launched a warning about refugee floods and counterattacks by Islamists, drawing up four possible scenarios for which France and other countries coordinating any supposed intervention against Al-Qaeda would need to adjust their strategies and tactics.:

    • Status quo: tensions between northern and southern Mali, with Al-Qaeda in the Islamic Maghreb and the National Movement for the Liberation of Azawad among the main armed groups; factional stress among military units; Sharia likely in northern regions, with 275,000 refugees and 1,562,000 at risk from cholera
    • Intervention: war with Islamists, including sleeper cell activations; looted schools and clinics; revenge attacks in countries contributing to intervention; anti-United Nations sentiment, with 575,000 refugees and 1,952,000 at risk from cholera
    • Internal rifts: intensified splits within Malian army; communal violence; closed borders; some evacuations, with 355,000 refugees and 1,952,000 at risk from cholera
    • Attacks against southern Mali: civil war, with children among those forced to fight; reinforcements to jihad groups from worldwide, attacking Mopti, Sevare, and Bamako; Sharia spreading, with 725,000 refugees and 1,952,000 at risk from cholera

    Could any of these scenarios combine? The overall point would be that even with American President Barack Obama and French President Francois Hollande attempting to coordinate activities to counter these Sharia terrorists, anarchy could be more likely to engulf West Africa, with at least some using it as a staging area for further attacks worldwide. I could welcome a new all-purpose thread on the Obama administration’s activities, but the rest of you probably won’t need to guess how optimistic I am.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccangelopearl1362 View Post
    I’m now under the impression that we’ve turned it into a sort of all-purpose thread discussing American – and international – politics, which oddly suits me, personally speaking.
    I have no problem with that type of thread- I'd love it, honestly. But with the election being over for over a month now, this is out of date. I think we should dump this thread in favor of a thread about the Obama administration rather than the election. Just about everything we've debated about since the election ended could be discussed there.
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    I honestly dislike all politicians on the stance that 99-100% of them are rather immoral. But, I've come to like Obama. Sure, some stuff hasn't gotten done as he promised, but there's not one politician that can deliver as they promise during the race. I've come to the following conclusion: both are fairly bad in the political sense, with Obama being the better choice by a fairly decent margin, but as human beings? Obama all the way. He caught so much flack for that first political debate, but from what I saw he was being the polite person and letting Romney have his turn and not interrupting Mitt, even when he was being interrupted himself. Romney was being rather incredible about evading alot of high import questions, and chose to just take every chance possible to try to turn the focal point from the stuff he was going to mess up to not letting Obama get a word in. Oh well, it's over and done with now anyways. The world will continue to spin on...
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    Quote Originally Posted by WizardTrubbish View Post
    Because people are still debating. Personally, I think that this should be closed and replaced with a thread on the Obama administration.
    I am very much in agreement. Maybe a refresher will re-rail discussion, to boot. With thanks to ccangelopearl, everyone can start using this thread.

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