Research Ladder team: Team Mud v. 1.8(+1500 points on PS!)

[That Crazy Russian™]

(Owahahahahah!) Tyranitar @Chople Berry
- Sand Stream -
Sassy
252 hp/ 4 atk/ 252 SpD
- Stealth Rocks
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Fire Blast

This pokemon's name goes out to the band "Disturbed." every team needs a little moar Ow-ah-ah-ah-ah! An Electrolyte original, this patches up some defensive issues, while still giving me the ability to f*ck with latios, latias, espeon, gengar, reuniculus, etc. damn thats some good pursuit! its specially defensive capabilities are great, btw. crunch/pursuit are standard. they're my "f*cking with tools" so to speak. stone edge allows me to beat even +1 volcs, still fairly bad for my team. gotta love that dinosaur. rocks for rocks. duh.


(War Machine) Politoed @Leftovers
- Drizzle -
Modest
252 hp/ 252 SpA/ 4 SpD
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Toxic
- Perish song

War machine. O F*ck Yeah. woot! AC*DC ftw! Tried the SpD set. didn't fit my style at all. so, i went back to the 3 attack set, because it works wonders. only this time, i chose perish song utility, because it hits everything encore did, and more. H-Pump for STAB, hp grass can check opposing gastrodon switch-ins. Ice beam gets those dragons, while max HP and max SpA leave it partially bulky, yet offensive at the same time.


(Wubbaffet) Wobbuffet @Leftovers
- Shadow tag -
Bold
28 hp/ 252 def/ 228 SpD
- Encore
- Destiny bond
- Counter
- Mirror coat

The replacement of virizion, it is great for checking random things, like terrakion. its massive 190 hp stat is great in just cushioning every blow. it also forms a great psuedo-core with genesect, in the gene+duggy core. wubba is just a beast. o, it also is great on perish song sh*t with politoed, as you set up, and i can kill a major threat, while i might not need wub anymore. destiny bond is great as last filler stuff, to better take on, say, volcarona, who will just get to plus 6 while it'll kill me and die itself.


(Thunderstruck) Jirachi @Choice Scarf
- Serene Grace -
Naive
252 atk/ 4 SpA/ 252 speed
- Iron Head
- Fire Punch
- Ice punch
- Trick

Eh. tried the Submind set. didn't particularly like it. so, i gave it a choice scarf so it can outspeed opposing genesect, thunderus-t, non-scarved terrakion, etc, all being very real threats. unfortunately, this still leaves me walled by heatran, as well as tentacruel(unless in rain). U-turn is a nice alternative to Thunder, to keep momentum going, but it has poor coverage, and frankly, i'd rather not use it. Trick is also a good tool to use, to get opposing set-up sweepers, i.e. volca, by switching in on a QD, outspeeding, and tricking to cripple them for the battle.


(St. Jimmy) Landorus @Choice Scarf
- Sand Force -
Naive
4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 Speed
- Stone edge
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- HP Ice

damn. did you catch the license plate of that truck that did that illegal u-turn??? a great revenge killer, and also my ferrothorn and weather and, more importantly, volcarona counter. Superpower is great as a hit and run move, hitting ferrothorn for great, great damage. QuakeEdge coverage gives it a nice STAB, whilst being able to handle flying types and volcarona very well. choice scarf allows it to beat +1 volca, something they never see coming. u-turn is great as momentum, especially with genesect handling everything.


(Iron Man) Genesect @Life Orb(To be tested)
- Download -
Naive
4 atk/ 252 SpA/ 252 speed
- Rock Polish
- Bug Buzz
- Thunderbolt
- Ice beam

This thing is the sh*t. Literally, just spam u-turn. that's all you need to do. The Ozz-man is present in gene's name, btw. anyway, like t-tar, its fairly simple to use. Originally Magnezone's spot, with the rise of genesect i deemed it more a hinderence than anything. so, genesect replaced it, doing its job and more, by not being set-up bait. the momentum that u-turn provides is real nice, and the coverage moves allow it to clean up late game, even without STAB bug buzz. Genesect gets rid of: scizor, dragonite, ferrothorn, starmie, breloom, and more.


That Crazy Russian's rating: 1524 → 1534
(+8 for winning, +2 from bonus pool) This is my ranking on PS! had to reladder, because mom deleted cookies :/

Credit and help goes to a multitude of people, but those that helped the most are Dragonicwari, Usatoday, Psilo, Mulder, and Electrolyte from Smogon. thanks guys!

[someonewhodied]

Try perish song instead of encore on politoed.
With the large amount of choice items being used, encore is pretty much useless on anything except a BPass or set-up pokemon, and those teams usually carry an espeon.

Pursuit (TTar) also doesn't work against BPass teams or voltswitch allowing espy/xatu to get out safely.


Thats just my opinion though. Other than that, the team looks great.

[SkyDriver]

Thunder on Genesect is viable as you have rain, but then again, if Toed is taken out, it will become unreliable. As for more team members, they benefit from one, but may be hindered by another weather, so why don't you focus on a single weather?

[That Crazy Russian™]

ok, can only quote one person, so here's the first part of the first person and my response:

voltturn is easily taken care of by virizion, and can even damage tornadus with stone edge, hitting roughly 65-70%, and if sr is up, well...

scarftar pursuit does affect u-turns/baton passes/ volt switches if the pursuiter is slower than the opponent i believe, but even still u-turn xatu is almost never used, and baton pass is only used on bp teams, which is ****ed over by encore.

perish song is meh. id rather have a definite turn to set-up/whatever, than take a boosted hit. a +1 or +2 poke can do a lot in 3 turns. thats potentially 3koes, and none of my pokemon are particularly bulky, bar politoed and virizion special-wise.

Thunder on Genesect is viable as you have rain, but then again, if Toed is taken out, it will become unreliable. As for more team members, they benefit from one, but may be hindered by another weather, so why don't you focus on a single weather?

i try and work on keeping the weather up right, by planning ahead. its fairly easy to use, even if you dont plan ahead. everything can work in weather, and when being against a weather team, you can potentially abuse their's. all benefit or have a specific niche in the team, but some problems ive been having is that:

flamethrower only 2hkoes ferro in rain, even with a +1 boost.

tentacruel can be a problem, as gliscor doesnt ohko with eq, (but bulkier sets can survive a rain-boosted scald), and rain dish is a *****.

lastly, i find virizion worn down very easily. the sand really hampers its ability to function, as you essentially lose 16% health every turn, even if you dont set up, and the STAB close combat is only really good for blissey(and doesnt even ohko, i believe). i really need a voltturn counter though.

[Ttar's stone edge]

If your after a volt turn counter, breloom works very well. Which ever set you want to use, but seed bomb/ bullet seed will destroy rotom, and focus punch/ mach punch will wreck scizor after boosts. It's up to you which set you use :3

[Ghosts of the Forums]

just pointing out, pursuit will not work against baton pass. that's about the one way they can get out without taking damage. you might want to scarf jirachi, and replace ice punch with trick, as it causes major head games, and, as an added bonus, ***ks any genesect lead.

[That Crazy Russian™]

hmm...ive never thought of breloom, as virizion has the massive special bulk.

if i had to try, id go techniloom. Spore + Bullet Seed + Mach Punch + Swords Dance/ Substitute/ filler move

id need some good calcs and evs to do specific things,

- ko mamoswine and outspeed it with mach punch

- 2hko scizor and not be ohkoed back with any move.


the reason virizion is used is because it has great coverage moves, and hp ice is great to get dragons and other random crap.

on the other hand, priority is also nice( and is very much needed against random scarf crap)

this is the time jesusfreak and/or BH rates this thread and sh*ts on it :P

EDIT: after thinking it, breloom really doesn't fit into the team. landorus is a major threat without virizion. how viable is this set:

Breloom @Life Orb
- Technician -
Jolly/(+atk/ -SpD)
"evs need tweaking"
- Hp Ice (60)
- Mach Punch
- Bullet Seed
- Spore

evs need tweaking to ohko landorus/gliscor, possibly outspeed as well, and to 2hko and outspeed scizor with mach punch. i really think this might work.

@GOTF: lolwut? most genesect are scarved, and the e-belt ones i outspeed and ohko with fire punch/flamethrower gene.

though i did try a scarf set with u-turn>thunder, and it worked reasonably well. forgot about trick :/

[Ghosts of the Forums]

you want a volt-turn counter? lando-t. boom. sh*t all over u-turn and volt switch users alike. except for genesect. but that's what scarf rachi is for.

[That Crazy Russian™]

you want a volt-turn counter? lando-t. boom. sh*t all over u-turn and volt switch users alike. except for genesect. but that's what scarf rachi is for.

read above post edit :P

lando-t has been briefly considered over gliscor, but the flying gem acro is really useful. as well as subsd.

if i get time, ill be testing two things: lando-t and breloom, as soon as i get a preliminary set for breloom. the form/proposed idea was above post.

[Voice Of The Forest]

HAI Dark -_- how you doing darky poopoo anyways this is a nice team you have here however im going to ask how do you deal with abomasnow? a ebelt set with wood hammer and ice shard can rip through this team bar genesect so im going to say you might want to replace genesect or rachi with a tentacruel to help sponge a hit but to also get a spinner on this team. How do you deal with dragons just out of curiosity
anyways pursut will hit through u-turn and volt switch as previously mentioned and im going to say this if you add breloom give some thought to a banded set it utterlydestroys everything in its path

[That Crazy Russian™]

ey! ey USA! ey breh! eeeeeeeey!

abomasnow is fairly easy to do deal with. it would be a problem if it has massive speed, but both jirachi and gene can outspeed it and kill it. If the pokemon keeps out-predicting my switch-ins, to safely get rachi or gene in there, well, then ive probably already lost the battle to the opponent. plus, either gene or jirachi are my leads(generally) for their great speed and coverage moves, and the ability to take out most weather starters(screw you ninetails!)

dragons are a different story. like i said, iron head flinch utility is great, especially at checking random crap. both jirachi and genesect outspeed the common ±0 dragons, haxorus, dragonite, salamence, etc. those are the only three ive seen,

gliscor has the bulk to take a +1/+1 dragon claw from dragonite. at 0/0. proud of that.

jirachi outspeeds and ohkoes salamence

if its jirachi vs. dragonite, i iron head flinch(hopefully, alternative is later) to break multiscale and to judge the bulk a bit.

hydreigon is my b*tch. no problems there.

now, if the dnite gets to +1/+1, i have to pllay around, not give him any reason to get to +2/+2(cuz then its practically game over, but ive learned how to play through that. thanks dragon!). really, it's multiscale will be broken, and i high-speed switch/ sacrifice something to get genesect in(hopefully off an outrage).

good questions ^_^

i dont really think cruel is the best choice, but it does bring some cards to the table, i think its said. rapid spin being foremost. but, this team isn't meant to be defensive at all, putting all the pressure on the opponent and trying not to get any back. instead of set-up, its a giant group of powerhouses and d*ck pokemon like Silver's ingame team.

the spins arent as needed as much on this team, just because it does so well against stall, especially with power-houses jirachi and genesect, who can tear through teams. i try not to give them the chance to set-up, and the common setters arent problems at all, but a little taunt would be nice to help smooth my prediction.

i thought techniloom was "in" right now :P

[Ghosts of the Forums]

please don't use that breloom set. please. breloom doesn't have 60 base special attack for nothing, you know.

[Blue Harvest]

please don't use that breloom set. please. breloom doesn't have 60 base special attack for nothing, you know.

It only needs 68 EVs with a neutral nature and LO to OHKO 252 HP Gliscor after Stealth Rocks. Not to mention OHKOing Dragonite and Salamence (does 100% minimum to mence).

I'm not sure how good of a set it is in practice but it surely could pull in some surprise kills.

[Dragonicwari]

Aw, I get mentioned so much. Glad I have been of use

Anyways, how does your team deal with Volc, I know how good you are at controlling the weather from first hand experience, but if it is allowed to get to +1 I could see it doing some serious damage. I think your best counter is TTar and even that is kind of a hit or miss thing in the event stone edge misses

[That Crazy Russian™]

Aw, I get mentioned so much. Glad I have been of use

Anyways, how does your team deal with Volc, I know how good you are at controlling the weather from first hand experience, but if it is allowed to get to +1 I could see it doing some serious damage. I think your best counter is TTar and even that is kind of a hit or miss thing in the event stone edge misses

lol. didn't expect it? this is my main rmt, and ive had sooo much help from you.

this. this right here is also a problem. this is why stealth rocks are needed so bad. virizion kinda checks it, can switch in on anything in rain, even @ +1 i dont think bug buzz ohkoes, but its still bad. luckily, volcarona hasnt been seen often, in fact ive never seen it, but its still a major threat. its more wearing down and everything, like ddnite. i really need a decent check.

jesusfreak also posted on my wall after asking him something. he actually made me realize virizion is half decent as a rain-pivot, taking even boosted pumps easily, but still fails against tornadus :/

a special shoutout also goes to my main comrade from smogon, Electrolyte. he originally helped me out with the team, on PO.

[Ghosts of the Forums]

did you try investing a little bit into gliscor's hp? maybe 20 ev's?

[That Crazy Russian™]

ive tried both these sets:

Gliscor @flying gem
- sand veil -
jolly/(+def - SpA)
184 hp/ 252 def/ 72 speed
- earthquake
- acrobatics
- substitute
- roost

and the one above. the speed issue makes me want the 252/252 variant, as well as power.

it wouldn't matter anyway, as +1 fiery dance is sure to ohko, and i need all the speed available. hence, why i might try landorus-t. possibly a scarf set, or a bulkier stealth rock set.

[someonewhodied]

if you really want to shut down voltswitch, get a shedinja.

[That Crazy Russian™]

if you really want to shut down voltswitch, get a shedinja.

you have to be trolling me.....

but im gonna respond normally, because you may just not know better.

shedinja is a poor choice because:

a) im running sand. 1 hp. yeah. get the picture.

b) i have no protection from hazards. so, unless im leading with it, i wasted a slot on my team.

c) shedinja also has almost zero offensive prescence in the ou metagame, and can't just be tacked on. no, it has to have a team built around it.

it's fairly useless. it is classified as a gimmick for a reason. kudos if you can build a successful team around it.

now, because im already starting to get (unsure of) trolling posts/slightly unhelpful, i shall rephrase my question to make it slightly better:

i am looking for a voltturn replacement if and only if i get rid of virizion, and it needs to be more efficient at taking care of it than virizion already is.

these are threats to the team as of yet:

ddnite(if +2/+2)
volcarona
venusaur(can do major damage to it)
keldeo

these are some issues that can or might need addressing:

- Hazards need spinning
- Need stealth rock

those are my priority questions. another very helpful thing is to tweak evs, so im not wasting precious evs, for example, putting 252 speed in virizion is essentially pointless, as i dont really outspeed anything significant, bar speed-tieing with keldeo/terrakion.

these pokemon i'll try testing when i get the chance:

techniloom> virizion(see how it fares against the rain boosted surfs and h-pump)

landorus-t> gliscor(need a set for it. suggestions welcome.)

^^thinking bulky sr layer

possibly 252 atk>252 SpA on genesect(thanks jesusfreak!)

[someonewhodied]

I don't mean slap it on. of course I mean that you should adjust your team accordingly.

You could easily slap taunt on a pokemon to prevent hazards.

Shedinja is easy to use. Just get rid of damaging weather/hazards and have a magic bouncer. Thats all it takes.

[That Crazy Russian™]

I don't mean slap it on. of course I mean that you should adjust your team accordingly.

lol. one does not simply "adjust" to include shedinja. think of it like this, i'd have to adjust my entire style, as well as half my team, just to have a voltturn counter, when i don't plan on replacing my main one now. especially a poor one at that. yeah, it walls most scrotom-cores(bar hp fire). but it can't do sh*t to either. please think of results etc before posting.

You could easily slap taunt on a pokemon to prevent hazards

:/ ok. so i have one taunter. what do i do if my taunter isn't out at the time? exactly.

Shedinja is easy to use.

lolwut!? have you ever even tried it? now im, like, 80% sure you are trolling, so im not going to respond to your response.

Just get rid of damaging weather/hazards and have a magic bouncer. Thats all it takes.

that's all it takes. switch half my team(or more than that). yup, its a good idea.

"hashtag" sarcasm.

i dont wanna be a d*ck, but im not changing my entire team just so i can have shedinja. its not particularly helpful either. questions, yes. unreasonable changes, no.

now, can i have the questions/ideas commented on? i'd like some sort of landorus-t set before i start testing, and i'll check smogon later.

[Dragonicwari]

I was considering using a scarfed Landorus incarnate. I realize you said Landorus T, but I gave it a lot of thought (as I was going to use landorus just because you use Gliscor lol, and the type combo goes well with my planned team) and Scarfed Landorus I did more for my team because it will outspeed a +1/+1/+1 Volc and (I think) Ko it with stone edge. You could even use something like this to include rocks;

Landorus @ scarf
Sand/sheer force
Naive
4hp/ 252 atk/ 252 spd
Earthquake
Stone edge/rock slide
U turn/ stealth rock/ hp ice
^Same as above^

Yes, I realize it's scarfed and I'm suggesting having rocks. I call it speed stoning.

[That Crazy Russian™]

I was considering using a scarfed Landorus incarnate. I realize you said Landorus T, but I gave it a lot of thought (as I was going to use landorus just because you use Gliscor lol, and the type combo goes well with my planned team) and Scarfed Landorus I did more for my team because it will outspeed a +1/+1/+1 Volc and (I think) Ko it with stone edge. You could even use something like this to include rocks;

Landorus @ scarf
Sand/sheer force
Naive
4hp/ 252 atk/ 252 spd
Earthquake
Stone edge/rock slide
U turn/ stealth rock/ hp ice
^Same as above^

Yes, I realize it's scarfed and I'm suggesting having rocks. I call it speed stoning.

i also considered it, but discarded it in the favor of intimidate, as bulkieness seriously is great.

ive used a choiced sr poke before, and it works great as a lead, as as they switch, you sr, and switch out of the counter.

if i tried that(i'll add it in those to test), i'm unsure as to u-turn or hp ice in the last slot.

[Dragonicwari]

U-turn would be the safer option as it will remove some urge to try and outpredict your opponent with hidden power ice. You can also then run jolly and be (slightly) more bulky

[That Crazy Russian™]

but then i lose the ability to hit breloom effectively, and ko it. although, i could always u-turn into, say, jirachi....hmm....a lotta testing to be done.