Research Ladder team: Team Mud v. 1.8(+1500 points on PS!)

[someonewhodied]

lol. one does not simply "adjust" to include shedinja. think of it like this, i'd have to adjust my entire style, as well as half my team, just to have a voltturn counter, when i don't plan on replacing my main one now. especially a poor one at that. yeah, it walls most scrotom-cores(bar hp fire). but it can't do sh*t to either. please think of results etc before posting.

:/ ok. so i have one taunter. what do i do if my taunter isn't out at the time? exactly.

lolwut!? have you ever even tried it? now im, like, 80% sure you are trolling, so im not going to respond to your response.



that's all it takes. switch half my team(or more than that). yup, its a good idea.

"hashtag" sarcasm.

i dont wanna be a d*ck, but im not changing my entire team just so i can have shedinja. its not particularly helpful either. questions, yes. unreasonable changes, no.

now, can i have the questions/ideas commented on? i'd like some sort of landorus-t set before i start testing, and i'll check smogon later.

Actually, I include shedinja on pretty much most of my teams and I rarely let it get killed. It really only shines in phaser teams due to only being hit by 5 types, weather, hazards, and statuses, but you can have other pokemon cover that. It also is good in BPass teams with a harden or honeclaws BPass set.

And on normal teams, run it with willowisp, protect, sucker punch, and swords dance/honeclaws. Sucker punch actually makes shedinja really useful.

[That Crazy Russian™]

am i running a baton pass team? NO!

idc what you run, or how it works for you. different things work for different people. i love abusing dual weather, but not just some random guy can use it and use it well. ive never used shedinja, and i dont plan too, because its just too much that needs to protect it. its a gimmick. please stop suggesting it.

harden is a terrible move.

the fact you rely on an unreliable priority shows me how well you are at team-building. WoW/protect/sd/sucker punch is just stupid. that's set up bait right there. protect is next to useless on shedinja. hone claws is always outclassed by swords dance, unless running crap like stone edge or some other non-100 acc move.

why would i use the frailest pokemon in existence for a priority move that is just asking to be set-up on, when i can run, say, sdgoxicroak, and actually be a viable threat?

of those 5 types, they are all fairly common.

fire
dark
ghost
rock
flying

every single one of those is common on every team. im sorry to be a d*ck, but im asking you to not post/advertise crap pokemon. if you have questions or legitimate answers to certain problems, by all means post. if not, and you're only advertising shedinja, post elsewhere. all it is is wasting my time by responding to crap.

[Chingchar]

Try the Flame Charge set on Genesect don't know if you tried it already but it is actually quite effective and then you won't get locked in into using one move. I once tried using a special attacking Breloom in a battle with a friend for a laugh and it actually did quite well so I think that putting HP ice on Breloom isn't such a bad idea. One of the Pokes I use is actually a Landorus-T and this is it's set:

Landorus-T@Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EV's 100,Sp.Def/ 152 Atk/ 252 Speed
Moveset
- Stealth Rock
- U-Turn
- Earthquake/ Toxic
- Swords Dance/Sandstorm/Rain Dance

Set up rocks and U-turn away or try setting up with swords dance and hitting hard with Earthquake and even U-Turn or you can try a more supportive role with it using stealth rocks, poisoning the opponent and then U-turn the suggestion with sandstorm or Rain dance is to set it up again if Tyranitar or Politoed faints but if you don't need it don't use you could try Bulk up in stead of Swords Dance if you're going for the supportive role.

Anyway the team looks cool and hope the suggestions help.

[That Crazy Russian™]

Try the Flame Charge set on Genesect don't know if you tried it already but it is actually quite effective and then you won't get locked in into using one move. I once tried using a special attacking Breloom in a battle with a friend for a laugh and it actually did quite well so I think that putting HP ice on Breloom isn't such a bad idea. One of the Pokes I use is actually a Landorus-T and this is it's set:

Landorus-T@Leftovers
Ability: Intimidate
EV's 100,Sp.Def/ 152 Atk/ 252 Speed
Moveset
- Stealth Rock
- U-Turn
- Earthquake/ Toxic
- Swords Dance/Sandstorm/Rain Dance

Set up rocks and U-turn away or try setting up with swords dance and hitting hard with Earthquake and even U-Turn or you can try a more supportive role with it using stealth rocks, poisoning the opponent and then U-turn the suggestion with sandstorm or Rain dance is to set it up again if Tyranitar or Politoed faints but if you don't need it don't use you could try Bulk up in stead of Swords Dance if you're going for the supportive role.

Anyway the team looks cool and hope the suggestions help.

if i find 252 atk on gene is better than 252 SpA, i just might try that with a expert belt set. it can actually work, though i lose the chance to speed-tie other genesects. but, the locking moves part really isnt that bad, when im doing u-turn 90% of the time. so, im iffy on that.

it would if you could explain the evs a bit more on that. i'll probably try landorus-t scarf set though, dragon's "speed rocker".

thanks ^_^

[That Crazy Russian™]

so far, ive been testing it on PS!(f*ck you broken ladder!), and multiple things are good. breloom is great over virizion(might not replace it, but....), and landorus-t is great over gliscor. might change it to a bulkier set as opposed to scarf. the atk evs from SpA havent done well at all. so, genesect is left as is. o, and i guess this is a semi-bump.. right now, im sitting at 1418, because i had to reset my ladder because someone deleted all the cookies :/

[Voice Of The Forest]

OK DARK to retaliate to your harsh and quite hurtful comments :[ im going to rate this as a real person.
The team fails to terrakion hard especially cb as it can ohko anything bar landorus which is two hit ko'd and if you come across the sub sd set may god have mercy upon your poor soul. Now with russia being known for inventive i thought you would have been able to see this and come up with a good counter to terrakion. a well made abomasnow will destroy this team as it can ohko both tyranitar and politoed with wood hammer jirachi doesnt appreciate coming into a earthquake if its played right. Hidden power fire will destroy genesect and ice shard destroys your virizion and landorus therian as it can also disrupt your weather. Hail in general gives your team trouble as heatran is almost seen with tentacruel on hail teams tentacruel will wall the politoed and heatran can wall your jirachi and genesect. A specs gastrodon will give you hell if it gets the storm drain boost and aside from virizion you cant touch a physically defensive set. a tornadus therian also hurts you semi bad. Thundurus will make you hurt especially if its sub nasty plot. Volcarona as you mentioned can sweep through your team if played right as can a sub dd gyarados especially if toed goes down as it needs to just set up to plus 2 and its gg
overall the team has many major holes and flaws be careful when playing this team as it may be your downfall if you lose the counter to that pokemon

[That Crazy Russian™]

OK DARK to retaliate to your harsh and quite hurtful comments :[

ahahahaha! dont worry, ill edit it sometime. consider it payback for trolling me with that seedot and torchic on that CC battle :P

The team fails to terrakion hard especially cb as it can ohko anything bar landorus which is two hit ko'd and if you come across the sub sd set may god have mercy upon your poor soul.

not really. i generally lead with genesect, and for some reason, they get really, really scared and switch while i get the free u-turn. but it can't switch in safely, and even if it stayed in, lando-t always takes care of it. i switch out, it either close combats for ~20% or eqs for nothing, and i always outspeed and ko with eq. but, it does require some prediction.

Now with russia being known for inventive i thought you would have been able to see this and come up with a good counter to terrakion.

*cough* gliscor/scarf landorus-t are great counters *cough*

a well made abomasnow will destroy this team as it can ohko both tyranitar and politoed with wood hammer jirachi doesnt appreciate coming into a earthquake if its played right. Hidden power fire will destroy genesect and ice shard destroys your virizion and landorus therian as it can also disrupt your weather.

again, not really. pretty much the general threats ko it and outspeed. so it kills a poke. it has to have perfect prediction, and even then, i can sac to bring something in.

Hail in general gives your team trouble as heatran is almost seen with tentacruel on hail teams tentacruel will wall the politoed and heatran can wall your jirachi and genesect.

landorus-t can destroy both, if gotten in, and can get any major counters with stone edge. a bulkier set isn't even ohkoed by Scald in the rain.
[/quote] A specs gastrodon will give you hell if it gets the storm drain boost and aside from virizion you cant touch a physically defensive set.[/quote]

specs sets have the same problem as other choice sets: they can't switch moves, so they get at most 1 ko.

a tornadus therian also hurts you semi bad. Thundurus will make you hurt especially if its sub nasty plot. Volcarona as you mentioned can sweep through your team if played right

these three were the main reason i wanted stealth rocks so bad. with sr up, they are fairly harmless.

as can a sub dd gyarados especially if toed goes down as it needs to just set up to plus 2 and its gg

generally its gg either way, but a scarf genesect always koes standard sets, so i switch out as they boost. theyre at +1/+1. i either force a switch or ko. not too bad a threat.

overall the team has many major holes and flaws be careful when playing this team as it may be your downfall if you lose the counter to that pokemon

isn't that how all teams work? lol. if you lose something specific, you generally get swept. i made this team for b/w, so some new threats aren't covered, *cough* keldeo/thunderus-t *cough*. but, eh. thats how it goes. any specific advice i could use to get rid of those threats?

[rckstr]

WHy would a terrakion be scared of genesect?

[That Crazy Russian™]

no friggin idea, it cant do anything to it, but for some reason, they always switch out. no clue as to why.

[That Crazy Russian™]

Bump

any comments? the team has done fairly decently. i got to 1550 on PS!, which is around 1170 on PO. not too bad.

[That Crazy Russian™]

major bump, lol

virizion was changed to wobbuffet, read all about it. feel free to provide some feedback

[Voice Of The Forest]

(Owahahahahah!) Tyranitar @Chople Berry
- Sand Stream -
Sassy
252 hp/ 4 atk/ 252 SpD
- Stealth Rock
- Crunch
- Pursuit
- Fire Bast

This pokemon's name goes out to the band "Disturbed." every team needs a little moar Ow-ah-ah-ah-ah! An Electrolyte original, this patches up some defensive issues, while still giving me the ability to f*ck with latios, latias, espeon, gengar, reuniculus, etc. damn thats some good pursuit! its specially defensive capabilities are great, btw. crunch/pursuit are standard. they're my "f*cking with tools" so to speak. stone edge allows me to beat even +1 volcs, still fairly bad for my team. gotta love that dinosaur. rocks for rocks. duh.
fire blast over stone edge to nail ferrothorn however id consider dropping the entire set for a subpunch tyranitar as rain is more beneficial to the team than sand.

(War Machine) Politoed @Leftovers
- Drizzle -
Modest
252 hp/ 252 SpA/ 4 SpD
- Hydro Pump
- Ice Beam
- Hp Grass/elecric
- Perish song

War machine. O F*ck Yeah. woot! AC*DC ftw! Tried the SpD set. didn't fit my style at all. so, i went back to the 3 attack set, because it works wonders. only this time, i chose perish song utility, because it hits everything encore did, and more. H-Pump for STAB, hp grass can check opposing gastrodon switch-ins. Ice beam gets those dragons, while max HP and max SpA leave it partially bulky, yet offensive at the same time.
hidden power electric will help destroy the gyarados that will destroy this team.


(Kyoto- Wubbaffet) Wobbuffet @Leftovers
- Shadow tag -
Bold
28 hp/ 252 def/ 228 SpD
- Encore
- Destiny bond/safeguard
- Counter
- Mirror coat

The replacement of virizion, it is great for checking random things, like terrakion. its massive 190 hp stat is great in just cushioning every blow. it also forms a great psuedo-core with genesect, in the gene+duggy core. wubba is just a beast. o, it also is great on perish song sh*t with politoed, as you set up, and i can kill a major threat, while i might not need wub anymore. destiny bond is great as last filler stuff, to better take on, say, volcarona, who will just get to plus 6 while it'll kill me and die itself.
safeguard to prevent poison and burns to tyranitar from rotom and other pokemon


(Thunderstruck) Jirachi @Choice Scarf
- Serene Grace -
Naive
252 atk/ 4 SpA/ 252 speed
- Iron Head
- Thunder
- Ice punch
- Trick

Eh. tried the Submind set. didn't particularly like it. so, i gave it a choice scarf so it can outspeed opposing genesect, thunderus-t, non-scarved terrakion, etc, all being very real threats. unfortunately, this still leaves me walled by heatran, as well as tentacruel(unless in rain). U-turn is a nice alternative to Thunder, to keep momentum going, but it has poor coverage, and frankly, i'd rather not use it. Trick is also a good tool to use, to get opposing set-up sweepers, i.e. volca, by switching in on a QD, outspeeding, and tricking to cripple them for the battle.
Thunder will help you paralyze volcarona as well as make rachi a check to gyarados

(St. Jimmy) Landorus-T @ Choice Band
- Intimidate -
Adamant
4 hp/ 252 atk/ 252 Speed
- Stone edge
- Earthquake
- U-turn
- Superpower

damn. did you catch the license plate of that truck that did that illegal u-turn??? a great revenge killer, and also my ferrothorn and weather and, more importantly, volcarona counter. Superpower is great as a hit and run move, hitting ferrothorn for great, great damage. QuakeEdge coverage gives it a nice STAB, whilst being able to handle flying types and volcarona very well. choice scarf allows it to beat +1 volca, something they never see coming. u-turn is great as momentum, especially with genesect handling everything.
never use two scarfers just dont


(Iron Man) Genesect @Expert Belt
- Download -
Naive
4 atk/ 252 SpA/ 252 speed
- Flamethrower
- U-turn
- Thunderbolt
- Ice beam

This thing is the sh*t. Literally, just spam u-turn. that's all you need to do. The Ozz-man is present in gene's name, btw. anyway, like t-tar, its fairly simple to use. Originally Magnezone's spot, with the rise of genesect i deemed it more a hinderence than anything. so, genesect replaced it, doing its job and more, by not being set-up bait. the momentum that u-turn provides is real nice, and the coverage moves allow it to clean up late game, even without STAB bug buzz. Genesect gets rid of: scizor, dragonite, ferrothorn, starmie, breloom, and more.
three scarfers is just stupid really genesect can bluff a scarf set so i would try this out

That Crazy Russian's rating: 1524 → 1534
(+8 for winning, +2 from bonus pool) This is my ranking on PS! had to reladder, because mom deleted cookies :/

Credit and help goes to a multitude of people, but those that helped the most are Dragonicwari, Usatoday, Psilo, Mulder, and Electrolyte from Smogon. thanks guys! Usatoday is the most important of these the others are all stupid as they are inferior to Usatoday eveni am inferior to him
Much better

anyways at this point i would scrap jirachi for a physically bulky rotom wash to help defeat mamoswine and to beat gyarados

[That Crazy Russian™]

i might just consider the fb>stone edge change, as stone edge never really hits anything.

right now, im testing band genesect, and it functions well. scarfgene might be better though, as i can switch in on all the +1 dd boosted pokes and revenge/ko

scarfrachi allows me to always beat genesect 1 on 1. always. genesect is more of a threat as i have to predict really really well to beat it. gyara, i can switch to landorus and stone edge him. and scarflando is essential to nail volca at +1, gyara +1, and everything else.

o, and ill change fire punch to thunderbolt instead.

everything else, ill try, and probably change to. but actually, three scarfers isnt all that bad. they all need it to do their job.

[Voice Of The Forest]

Honestly scarf lando i can do that not lando therian

[That Crazy Russian™]

hmm, you have a point. the intimidate factor is great and all, but i notice i lack any real raw power, so today, ill try scarf landorus-incarnate out.

[That Crazy Russian™]

bump. i changed a few things. genesect was way more common than gyarados, so i changed thunder to fire punch. it always beats genesect. gyarados can be countered by a switch to a scarfgenesect, and then t-bolt. i also opted over hp electric. it just leaves me as gastrodon bait. speaking of gassy, i might change politoed to a defensive toed, or something, to beat gassy. any tips to help are nice. my current strategy is to p-song it on the switch-in and switch to wubbuffet.

landorus-i has proved great in sand. the intimidate factor is missed, but the raw power is amazing.

cb gene did not work out.

fb>stone edge is a great change.

[Soul_Fly]

Testing your team ... I'll see how it works out.

[Ghosts of the Forums]

no reason to bump a thread to sya you are testing a team that is all ready welly made.

[That Crazy Russian™]

thank you soulfly. its a)good to see people checking the thread out, and b) it'll be good to see your result. i myself have peaked at 1620, but have no proof of anything up til 1588.

no reason to bump a thread to sya you are testing a team that is all ready well made.

aw, thanks GoTF

[Soul_Fly]

Ok I'm back with my analysis.

This is a HARD team to run. Please note. Not BAD, just HARD. But maybe that's because I'm relatively inexperienced compared to many other guys.

In the starting it was a disaster. My rating dropped from 1048 to 924 during the first half an hour or so, where I only managed to win ONE battle, that too against a noob with a gimmick team.

The thing with a team that is half choiced is that it's a double edged sword. While I get the pace advantage since I don't need to set up, I am prone to getting revenge killed or just becoming set-up bait as I have to waste a turn switching to avoid an OHKO as I'm locked into a move and cannot do anything else.
This problem is specific to the 900-1000 ladder region as many teams run life orb sets there. (until recently, me included)
Bulky Latios in Particular sets up with ease once tyranitar is down... (which is quite often with Close Combat/Superpower floating around in a team) and All I can do is hope to get genesect in before it's too late and spam Ice beam hoping doesn't carry HP fire. it effectively almost guarantees a loss.
Similar case with MoxieMence. Switches into something like Landorus locked into earthquake and gets in a dragon dance while I waste a turn switching and proceeds to outrage all over the place.

then against sun teams it's an uphill battle to keep Politoed alive, being the bulky variety it's screwed around with Venasuar with Sunny Day and I spend my time switch-stalling b/w Tyranitar and Poli to keep it at bay (and uhm it doesn't work) One chlorophyll is active it's game over.

Then after a ton of practice I realized that prediction is the key. It's the golden key with this team, without it I'm murdered. Then It started getting a bit better.
Genesect Shines as a lead. Even though it's ****ing common, it still shines and the choiced flamethrower is a wonderful tool.
Tyranitar doesn't really do anything for my apart from setting up rocks and dying, common fighting types all outspeed it and 2HKO so it's a choice between doing moderate damage to them or setting up rocks. Only plus is coming in on something that cannot do anything and then pursuit-ing the **** outta it's running ***.
The Bulky Politoed has been a mixed bag, I swear , in the rain that hydro pump is a terror to behold and apart from a venasaur or a speedy jolteon packing thunder it's good. The speed is really missed against certain opponents, as I like running a Speedy Variety in many of my teams but it can be managed.

Landorus works great as a team with Tyranitar, both complimenting each other well and he is the one I switch out to, to counter a fighting type. The 101 base speed stat is a really magic number which allows it to outspeed most of the meta game, but as I said it has often proven to be a free set-up bait unless I predict the switch in and switch at the same time too.

Jirachi is good at what it does and Trick is a ****ing boon. I love this set. IT surprisingly counters opposing para-flinch Jirachi very well.
Wobbuffet again hasn't been as good as I had hoped. Volt-turn really ruins it's trip. And with so many pokemon packing it. It's a gamble most of the time based to prediction and analysis, and praying that they don't have it. SR Damage + 2x effective u-turn really does **** the **** out of it. Even if it's not a bug. They then just switch to a blissey/chanse/ferro and wall it all day.
I recommend replacing Destiny Bond with Safeguard as it isn't fast enough to destiny bond anything. Except perhaps maybe the occasional Curselax. Safeguard allows it to avoid poison/burn thus letting it do it's job better.

That's all.

After getting the hang of this.. ladder ranking gone up to 947.... and I'll ladder maybe later.

Hope it helps.

[That Crazy Russian™]

the problem is, i dont think you are using it right. wobbuffet shouldn't really be used to trap everything. you can usually tell if a pokemon is voltturning, and switch appropriately.

the way to handle sun is to know the right time to switch weathers. i usually switch to sand though. the key to winning weather wars is to use them at the right time. i personally have no problem with sun teams.

tyranitar should never switch into or stay in on any fighting type. chople berry is there for any stray focus blasts, and it really helps a lot.

at any rate, i wish you the best. i myself hit 1620 with it on PS.

changes have been made to movesets, etc,