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Thread: Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands - Sovereignty competition between two largest Asian countries

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    Default Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands - Sovereignty competition between two largest Asian countries

    The Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands issue is currently the largest politic affair in China and Japan.

    Currently (Well, not really 'currently', because it was quite long ago), China claimed that island is their own land since ancient history. On the other hand, Japan claimed the island is their own land by international law. Both sides stand firmly to their own reasoning, and is now leading to a situation of almost ready to confront each other with military force.

    I wanted to ask these questions to see different people's views about this issue:
    1) Which country do you think Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands belongs to? and Why?
    2) What do you think China and Japan government will do on their next move?

    By historical view, Senkaku/Diaoyu Islands was actually an island without owner. China was the first one to discover the island, but never take actual action to claim dominion for that island. Therefore it actually has no right to claim that island is them after Japan had took physical action to claim dominion.
    To my viewpoint, China (especially the current China ruled by the Communist Party) was always barefaced and shameless towards claimable affairs, despite whether the claimable item is really their own things or not. It may have the guts to flame this affair towards the direction of military confront, but I don't expect China to win. China was in fact always the loser according to historical wars in its country.

    P.S. But however, just merely my personal view, I hope this affair will expand to become local war, where China lose towards Japan, then China will not be so arrogant in some later future.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Crystal View Post
    I hope this affair will expand to become local war
    You're not going to be convincing many people your argument is valid if you close it out by wishing two countries would engage in war with each other, and that the one you like less loses so they can get their purported hubris shoved back in their faces. If you don't understand why that is not cool, perhaps you shouldn't be trying to make debate posts.

    I'm... not sure how much of a debate this is, though. Seems more like a discussion topic to me.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserin View Post
    You're not going to be convincing many people your argument is valid if you close it out by wishing two countries would engage in war with each other, and that the one you like less loses so they can get their purported hubris shoved back in their faces. If you don't understand why that is not cool, perhaps you shouldn't be trying to make debate posts.

    I'm... not sure how much of a debate this is, though. Seems more like a discussion topic to me.
    Oh come on. Not that I agree with him, but there's no reason why you need to question his place here just because they said something you disagree with.

    My view is that China is growing power in the region, and that they are very well aware of this. So, they are going to take any route to assert strategic/military dominance in the region. They do not have a claim. They probably even know they don't have a claim. China just doesn't care and they know if they're going to grab for territory that they're going to have to at least pretend to go about doing it the proper way.

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    If Japan has legal right to the island, it deserves to keep it. It doesn't matter that ancient China used to have control of it. If it did, we'd have to give to America back to its natives.

    I didn't know that Japan still had a military after WWII.
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    It's my understanding that these are uninhabitated islands that have only become important because oil was discovered there. If Japan owns them under international law, and there are no natives to object or choose the nation they want to be a part of, then Japan should keep the islands.

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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    I didn't know that Japan still had a military after WWII.
    ...What gave you that idea?
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    What, so China's the one being "arrogant"? Excuse me? If anything, the arrogant one here is Japan, who's been trying to claim every island in sight. Have you heard about the Liancourt Rocks? That island (or islands, I'm not sure) is South Korean property by law, yet Japan still claims that it's theirs. And I've heard that that's not the only one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond, king of ducks View Post
    ...What gave you that idea?
    That was one of the terms in their surrender.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dryzera View Post
    Oh come on. Not that I agree with him, but there's no reason why you need to question his place here just because they said something you disagree with.
    I think it's pretty reasonable, considering he wished war would befall two countries (not cool) and then hoped one would lose out of what sounds like pure spite. It has nothing to do with me disagreeing and everything to do with that being a positively shitty thing to say, ever, no matter which countries are involved.


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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    That was one of the terms in their surrender.
    And you think the demilitarisation would have persisted for 70+ years?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Raymond, king of ducks View Post
    And you think the demilitarisation would have persisted for 70+ years?
    Yes. Why wouldn't it?
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    That was one of the terms in their surrender.
    They do have a de facto militairy. It is a self defense unit that sometimes goes on non combat missions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by marioguy View Post
    Yes. Why wouldn't it?
    Because leaving a now non-threatening country defenseless for the best part of a century is shoe on head retarded?

    By the way, the actual japanese militiary was merely disarmed, not destroyed. Once liberated, there was no reason to leave the country without the ability to defend itself.
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    Japan has full rights to the islands so why shouldn't they have control over the islands . China is trying to assert their dominance like even with India they disagree to recognise their border with India .
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flame Mistress View Post
    What, so China's the one being "arrogant"? Excuse me? If anything, the arrogant one here is Japan, who's been trying to claim every island in sight. Have you heard about the Liancourt Rocks? That island (or islands, I'm not sure) is South Korean property by law, yet Japan still claims that it's theirs. And I've heard that that's not the only one.
    Have you not heard about Tibet? or parts of India and Pakistan or even Taiwan? Land that China claims as theirs? It is easy to make Japan look like the arrogant one but China is doing exactly the same.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserin View Post
    I think it's pretty reasonable, considering he wished war would befall two countries (not cool) and then hoped one would lose out of what sounds like pure spite. It has nothing to do with me disagreeing and everything to do with that being a positively shitty thing to say, ever, no matter which countries are involved.
    who would ever think that someone with an obvious bias towards Japan would want one of Japan's bloodiest and most hated enemies to lose to a war with...Japan

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    P.S. But however, just merely my personal view, I hope this affair will expand to become local war, where China lose towards Japan, then China will not be so arrogant in some later future.
    That is really an awful statement. I don't care who you support, war should not be something we hope for. You do realize that both Chinese AND Japanese lives would be lost?

    I have no opinion in the matter. I am not Japanese or Chinese. However, I find it awful that you are hoping for war of any sort.


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    Quote Originally Posted by PocketMonstre View Post
    That is really an awful statement. I don't care who you support, war should not be something we hope for. You do realize that both Chinese AND Japanese lives would be lost?

    I have no opinion in the matter. I am not Japanese or Chinese. However, I find it awful that you are hoping for war of any sort.
    Seconded. Why on earth would you want a WAR just so that China will "realise how arrogant they are"? Plus, it's not just Chinese and Japanese lives that will be lost... think about other countries... *shudder*

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    i have no doubt in my mind that this is just another piece in the elites puzzle; this is all part of world war three. the war wont just be fought in eran and the middle east, the elites are going to burn the entire world and this 'disptue' is their excuse for a war in northeast asia.
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    "Pff, what're these? Useless little islands of no significance. Not even worth our time."

    "Hey, China, if you're not gonna take 'em, can we have them?"

    "Sure, Japan, whatev's, no prob."


    SOME TIME LATER

    "Oh hey! These islands seem to have something valuable under them!"

    "JAPAN YOU DIRTY THIEF THOSE ARE OUR ISLANDS. YOU STOLE OUR ISLANDS WE DEMAND THEM BACK CAPITALIST PIG DOGS. CHINA 4EVER #YOLO"


    And that's pretty much the extent of the argument. China is acting like a spoiled brat over a bunch of islands it never cared about or even officially claimed because someone else found something valuable underneath them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flame Mistress View Post
    What, so China's the one being "arrogant"? Excuse me? If anything, the arrogant one here is Japan, who's been trying to claim every island in sight. Have you heard about the Liancourt Rocks? That island (or islands, I'm not sure) is South Korean property by law, yet Japan still claims that it's theirs. And I've heard that that's not the only one.
    So China claiming land legally owned by Japan is justified because Japan wanted some other land? This is not an eye for an eye situation, and if South Korea actually owns it and Japan didn't get it, nobody loses anything.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyula View Post
    i have no doubt in my mind that this is just another piece in the elites puzzle; this is all part of world war three. the war wont just be fought in eran and the middle east, the elites are going to burn the entire world and this 'disptue' is their excuse for a war in northeast asia.
    Do not comprehend.


    Anyway, if Japan legally owns this land, it is theirs. End of story. China simply wants the land for its resources, and is trying the route of claiming it is theirs due to some ancestral connection. Both countries just want more land, but Japan owns the land.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyula View Post
    i have no doubt in my mind that this is just another piece in the elites puzzle; this is all part of world war three. the war wont just be fought in eran and the middle east, the elites are going to burn the entire world and this 'disptue' is their excuse for a war in northeast asia.
    Nice tinfoil hat you have there. Very fashionable nowadays.

    Yeeeeeah, if Japan legally got the claim to it before China, I feel like China's kind of SOL here. Even if they did get there first, that doesn't really mean squat if they didn't claim it.


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    Well, I saw my first question was not worth much discussion value, so one may forget it.
    But rather, I concern more on my second question.

    Currently, this issue seems to getting more serious. Ships from Taiwan now sails to the seas near the island, and warned by the naval ship of Japan.
    The diplomatic relationship between China + Taiwan and Japan is now getting very tense, a murderous atmosphere is flowing in the coastal area near that island.

    What do you think what will happen the next?
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    ^ The elites of the US will milk this for all its worth. Doubtless we will hear demagogic, sanctimonious moralising from American politicians about this issue. The Chinese elites will play their usual 6-year old child style diplomacy.

    Quote Originally Posted by Kaiserin View Post
    Nice tinfoil hat you have there. Very fashionable nowadays.
    You deny that there is going to be another world war? Do you deny that America is looking for another war? The rising tensions about these islands and the South China sea and Tibet are the seeds the American Empire has sown in order to give it's elites the excuse they need to try and pwn their rival before China grows to strong. America is trying to surround China and cause as much problems for it as possible.
    Last edited by Nyula; 27th September 2012 at 6:18 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nyula View Post
    You deny that there is going to be another world war?
    There might be, but I'm not getting my hopes that far up just yet. There also might not be. I'm not gonna ready the bomb shelters until it actually happens, personally.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyula View Post
    Do you deny that America is looking for another war?
    Define "America." I know a lot of the population sure as hell isn't, and it also depends on who gets elected.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nyula View Post
    The rising tensions about these islands and the South China sea and Tibet are the seeds the American Empire has sown in order to give it's elites the excuse they need to try and pwn their rival before China grows to strong. America is trying to surround China and cause as much problems for it as possible.
    Rival? Are you shitting me? Even if they wanted to kick them to the curb like that, America still owes China big time; they're the ones who helped bail us out a couple billion, and we really can't do much to them even if we wanted to, just because we've got that debt hanging over our heads in more than just a literal way. Chill your paranoia.


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