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Thread: BWS2-17 Iris VS Drayden [FIRST POST UPDATED 10/19]

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    While I agree there is more, the fact remains that if she wins this she pretty much failed her quest.
    How so?

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    She was given that Axew with the specific purpose of training it, then when she succeeded return to battle Drayden, that was her quest she set out on.Simply been given Dragonite (she never properly fought, caught or trained it, it just joined her at full potential) and using it in battle with Drayden is a way of bypassing the actual work that came with her quest.
    Except she did work with Dragonite. She helped it and kept using it in Junior Cup in order to establish some sort of connection between her and Dragonite. Also, preceding this episode is Hydreigon's appearance which may most likely lead to more development. Iris wasn't given Axew to focus on just him, she's traveling and interacting with other dragons which is a part of her goal.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    It also feels as cheap as if Ash was allowed to skip the badges and just go straight to the league with a "enter free" card het got at the start.
    It's not like Ash doesn't get cheap wins or mid-battle evolutions.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    Iris skipped the training and becoming strong enough to battle Drayden part, she might have trained Exadrill, but she is using Dragonite, and she had nothing to do with its strength.
    Ugh, you're just like Trip. Strength isn't everything! Dragonite doesn't trust humans, Iris is supposed to fix that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    She might have trained her understanding Dragons and bonded with some, but her just watching powerless as Dragonite started wrecking the stadium (until Ash put it down) showed she has a LONG way to go before she properly understands Dragons (she's improved, but nowhere near the end yet).
    Which shows that Iris is far from being flawless as some people suggest. The flashback in the Deino episode showed that a lady Dragon Master was able to calm a rampaging dragon just by placing her hand on the dragon's body. Iris is nowhere near capable of doing that.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    So in the end she hasn't come close to the goal she had when she set out and as such a win here would be extremely cheap and poor writing.
    Beating Drayden =/= her goal.

    Drayden merely wants to see what Iris has accomplished in terms of her growth, hence the fact she's using Excadrill as well. I don't think Iris should win but I mean, even IF she beats Drayden, that doesn't change the fact that Axew hasn't grown as much as he was supposed to and that she's not that close to her goal yet. Why else do you think Iris was scared of going to Opelucid?
    Last edited by Janovy; 20th September 2012 at 9:42 AM.


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    I wonder who challanges who to battle. Iris didn't exactly seem thrilled at the prospect of going to Opelucid so I can't see her challenging Drayden. So maybe Draydon asks for/demands the match and Iris has to deal with nerves during the battle?

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    Quote Originally Posted by The 4th Kira View Post
    I don't think Iris is destined to beat Drayden like Ash is destined to beat Trip, though. I really don't want her to win because it'll just add more fuel to the fire. I'm so fed up with Iris haters, and I don't want to spend another week trying to reason with them. I just want Iris to learn some things from Drayden and then move on with her life.
    I see your point...but I don't think many people will hate on her because she beat Drayden, plus there's the fact that Excadrill needs revenge against Haxorus.

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    It would be a pretty bad choice on the writers part if she did win.

    She got owned by Drayden, was given Axew and asked to train it to its full potential and then they'd battle again.
    She has still barely done anything with Axew and has pretty much failed at her "test" since its the weakest Pokemon of the whole group
    She is now battling Drayden with Dragonite instead, a last minute fully evolved Pokemon she never even captured properly.

    So winning this would be poor writing, since she pretty much side-stepped her own goal. Axew should be one to actually beat Drayden and nobody else, since that proves she can train Dragons into powerhouses and worthy of calling herself a Dragon master. (Which was the goal she clearly stated early BW)
    Everyone complains about Axew when they fail to notice how much he's actually come. In the beginning of Best Wishes, he got totally owned by Pansage who was going super-easy on it. Now Axew is able to fight in real battles, actually winning some, and even manage to land a hit on Garchomp. That's development in my eyes.
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    Cynthias garcjomp is so powerful it could take a judgment to the face and escape unscathed. Plus it was going easy on axes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Shraeder View Post
    I see your point...but I don't think many people will hate on her because she beat Drayden, plus there's the fact that Excadrill needs revenge against Haxorus.



    Everyone complains about Axew when they fail to notice how much he's actually come. In the beginning of Best Wishes, he got totally owned by Pansage who was going super-easy on it. Now Axew is able to fight in real battles, actually winning some, and even manage to land a hit on Garchomp. That's development in my eyes.
    Axew's potential is still unclear. He is nowhere powerful yet not too weak. He gets kidnapped alot and has won some of his battles by mastering/learning a move. However he learned some powerful moves like Outrage and Giga Impact but Iris's tendency on not making him battle when the right time comes makes me feel that she is the one restricting him and making him seem weak. It does not help that now she has Dragonite a Pokemon who outclasses Axew in every possible way.

    I can't see her beating Drayden...at least not now, Dragonite and Excadrill will lose and that will lead to some development for Dragonite's obedience and her training with her Pokemon before she challenges him again. There is a filler saga so that is where some of her development will be along with Ash's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Beating Drayden =/= her goal.

    Drayden merely wants to see what Iris has accomplished in terms of her growth, hence the fact she's using Excadrill as well. I don't think Iris should win but I mean, even IF she beats Drayden, that doesn't change the fact that Axew hasn't grown as much as he was supposed to and that she's not that close to her goal yet. Why else do you think Iris was scared of going to Opelucid?
    My thoughts exactly. It doesn't matter whether or not Iris beats Drayden or loses to Drayden. THe main thing thats gonna be showcased in this episode pretty much how far Iris has come along and potentially how she can keep growing (i.e further training with Axew, bonding with Dragonite and earning its trust, that kind of thing). Even if she does win (I doubt it though), that doesn't mean she won't get anything out of it or won't get any further development. I'm so confused as to why people think her winning would be bad =S





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    Quote Originally Posted by firestar319 View Post
    My thoughts exactly. It doesn't matter whether or not Iris beats Drayden or loses to Drayden. THe main thing thats gonna be showcased in this episode pretty much how far Iris has come along and potentially how she can keep growing (i.e further training with Axew, bonding with Dragonite and earning its trust, that kind of thing). Even if she does win (I doubt it though), that doesn't mean she won't get anything out of it or won't get any further development. I'm so confused as to why people think her winning would be bad =S
    Because Dragonite still has issues and her choosing Dragonite for choosing how far she has come is dumb considering she just got it and can't fully control him.
    She neglects Axew, who she was told to raise into a powerful Haxorus and here he still is.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Because Dragonite still has issues and her choosing Dragonite for choosing how far she has come is dumb considering she just got it and can't fully control him.
    She neglects Axew, who she was told to raise into a powerful Haxorus and here he still is.
    Hopefully she trys to do some things with Axew here. I do agree, she shouldn't win she needs to train her other Pokemon a bit more and try to master Dragonite.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Because Dragonite still has issues and her choosing Dragonite for choosing how far she has come is dumb considering she just got it and can't fully control him. She neglects Axew, who she was told to raise into a powerful Haxorus and here he still is.
    Why do people keep bringing up Axew? It's the same as Oshawott situation - marketing.

    Plus, Dragonite may very well start trusting her in the episode before this one.


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    Haxorus
    - Dual Chop
    - Dragon Claw/Pulse
    - Dragon Dance
    - Rock Smash/Brick Break

    Druddigon
    - Dragon Tail
    - Outrage
    - Fire Fang
    - Crush Claw

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Because Dragonite still has issues and her choosing Dragonite for choosing how far she has come is dumb considering she just got it and can't fully control him.
    She neglects Axew, who she was told to raise into a powerful Haxorus and here he still is.
    Don't get me wrong, I'm not excepting Iris to win this battle at all. I'm just sayin win or lose, more than likely Drayden is gonna call her out on those things (how Dragonite doesn't listen and how Axew hasn't grown as he was hoping/expecting), and it'll give Iris some drive, motivation, that kind of thing, to improve her relationship with Dragonite and make Axew a better battler down the road. Also, Dragonite may start listening in the ep before this as Janovy said, at least I hope so





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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Why do people keep bringing up Axew? It's the same as Oshawott situation - marketing.

    Plus, Dragonite may very well start trusting her in the episode before this one.
    It doesn't matter. Marketing is no excuse for development. Even Piplup who was kept being shoved down our faces, got development. Suddenly pulling two moves from its behind to make the impression that Iris trains it, isn't cutting it.

    If Dragonite does trust her right before this episode, wow, talk about more easy fixes.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    It doesn't matter. Marketing is no excuse for development. Even Piplup who was kept being shoved down our faces, got development. Suddenly pulling two moves from its behind to make the impression that Iris trains it, isn't cutting it.
    Well yeah, Piplup had a trainer with an active goal. Piplup had 190 episodes, Piplup had way more focus.

    Dawn in general had a lot more focus than Iris.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    If Dragonite does trust her right before this episode, wow, talk about more easy fixes.
    How is it an easy fix? Is Dragonite NOT allowed to get a development episode?


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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    If Dragonite does trust her right before this episode, wow, talk about more easy fixes.
    Let's wait and see the circumstances before calling it an easy fix

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    The fact that you guys are pissed on Iris that she gets to battle Drayden and not Ash will not change anything.

    Ash won't battle Drayden, get over it. If you want someone to blame, blame Gamefreak for making B2W2.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    Well yeah, Piplup had a trainer with an active goal. Piplup had 190 episodes, Piplup had way more focus.

    Dawn in general had a lot more focus than Iris.
    Doesn't excuse it. Axew is either "strong" in some episodes yet it a total damsel in distress every 10 episodes or so.

    How is it an easy fix? Is Dragonite NOT allowed to get a development episode?
    Dragonite beats her rival, then it gets a cheap win vs Dawn, then she gets to the semifinals and loses (which is good), so having him listen that quickly isn't good.
    I'd rather it still be stubborn and lose vs Drayden. That way Drayden can give Iris further advice on taming it. Instead of having it suddenly listen to Iris right before she challenges a power Dragon Master to somehow show how far she has gotten with a Dragon she just caught.

    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    The fact that you guys are pissed on Iris that she gets to battle Drayden and not Ash will not change anything.

    Ash won't battle Drayden, get over it. If you want someone to blame, blame Gamefreak for making B2W2.
    If you are referring to me, then no. I don't give a flying care about Ash battling Drayden. I mean he didn't battle Marlon why should anyone expect something different?

    I just don't like how they handle Iris in this saga which is saddening because I really liked her very early on.
    Last edited by _Taidow_; 20th September 2012 at 5:48 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    The fact that you guys are pissed on Iris that she gets to battle Drayden and not Ash will not change anything.

    Ash won't battle Drayden, get over it. If you want someone to blame, blame Gamefreak for making B2W2.
    Whos even talking about that any more? All we are just saying she needs to work on her Pokemon before winning things like this.
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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    I just don't like how they handle Iris in this saga which is saddening because I really liked her very early on.
    That is saddening, given the fact Iris is the only one in BW who has something resembling a story and development.

    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    Whos even talking about that any more? All we are just saying she needs to work on her Pokemon before winning things like this.
    And she's working with Dragonite. She tried working with it during the whole Junior Cup and will have another episode.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    The fact that you guys are pissed on Iris that she gets to battle Drayden and not Ash will not change anything.

    Ash won't battle Drayden, get over it. If you want someone to blame, blame Gamefreak for making B2W2.
    its understandable why people are annoyed. Heck its why I'm annoyed a little..Since best wishes began the thing I was most looking forward to was Ash vs Drayden and it is disappointing its not happening. But people should learn to just be happy with what we have. What we have seen so far suggests its going to be a good battle, which should please most people,

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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    That is saddening, given the fact Iris is the only one in BW who has something resembling a story and development.
    Read my edited post above.

    Also, just because she has something that resembles a story doesn't mean it's acceptable to butcher it.

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    When BW first came out I wanted iris to surprise ash in opelucid with a gym battle.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Also, just because she has something that resembles a story doesn't mean it's acceptable to butcher it.
    I am perfectly happy with Iris's story and so are many others.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    That is saddening, given the fact Iris is the only one in BW who has something resembling a story and development.


    And she's working with Dragonite. She tried working with it during the whole Junior Cup and will have another episode.
    She hasn't been able to controll Dragonite yet though, having it work out in one episode would be sad.
    I'd like to see an episode or two having Iris Master Dragonite and maybe a few subplots before dealing with other Pokemon, her beating a guy like this without training a few other of her Pokemon would be well.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janovy View Post
    I am perfectly happy with Iris's story and so are many others.
    I'm not perfectly happy with Iris' story and so are many others.

    See how that works?

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    so is this going to be a battle with both Haxorus & Druddigon vs dragonite & Excadrill or is it one pokemon out at a time?

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