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Thread: BWS2-18 Virgil & Team Eevee [FIRST POST UPDATED 10/19]

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    Quote Originally Posted by Joltik-Kid View Post
    Druddigon as a species only had one lost though and that was a COTD. So I don't see how the species can be dubbed "weak" based on one battle were it not only was at a disadvantage, but the character using it wasn't important either.

    Another thing is people seem to think that Virgil is gonna be like Paul and switch out his Pokemon every time Ash sends in something that counters his current evolution. One, that's overestimating Virgil as a character (who we know nothing about right now) and two, Ash doesn't fall for the same tactic twice, if he keeps in a Pokemon that loses due to type disadvantage, he's not gonna call it a fluke and try the same tactic over again. Plus I've already mentioned it before in this thread (or somewhere) but the Eeveelutions (minus Vaporeon and even then) all have poorly one sided movepools.
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    Thanks guys for explaining the Ex Special thing, but I still doubt that they're actually going by that logic. I think its more likely that they're just going for whatever they feel like and it has purely been coincidental that they're in this Ex Special category.

    If anything, I really so assume that they just try and make them as one being super effective against another. Currently we have:

    Electric>Water>Fire>Ice>Grass and Dark>Psychic.

    I think that next we could be seeing Flying and another type to partially fill in that void. But like I said before, this isn't really the place for that kind of discussion, so after this post, my thoughts about said subject will end.

    Thanks again for the explanation
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    Quote Originally Posted by dman_dustin View Post
    And what Eevee wasn't popular when it first came out? It suddenly had a huge surge of popularity after 15 years.

    Doesn't change the fact that Virgil shouldn't have all of them. Maybe they don't want to play favorites but a character having all of them, undermines the whole idea of marketing them, because someone is getting screwed over in terms of screen time, and I can't see how possible it would be to share around eight of them.
    The big change has been with B2W2: Eevee is now marketed as being capturable early on, where it wasn't before. The reason why we're getting Virgil now is because BW2 is B2W2's marketing season.

    Take a look at 'history':
    RBY: Eevee was already very popular, the line got two episodes featuring most of the Eeveelutions (ultimate test and the battling Eevee-brothers).
    GSC: You got an Eevee from Bill, the line yet again got two episodes featuring most of the Eeveelutions (where one was an Eevee in the first it became an Espeon later). Gary.
    RSE/FRLG: No Eevee's were present to be captured in RSE, when FRLG came out, May got an Eevee during the FRLG marketing season: AG-BF. Also Anabel sort of counts.
    DPt/HGSS: You got an Eevee from Bebe, similar to Bill in HgSs, there was a rare chance you could catch one in the Trophy Garden, only 5% each day, so it took a long time to get one. Hence why we only saw more of them as HgSs had come out.

    See the big change with Eevee being readily capturable every single day in B2W2? That's why we're getting Virgil and Kotetsu (Riolu/cario).

    Your second point doesn't make any sense, why create multiple characters for the Eeveelutions? It would only take more time to showcase them all, and that costs money. Now they only have to show Virgil and the fanboys wet themselves the crowd instantly recognizes the Eeveelution trainer, goes online, and buys whatever combination of Eeveelution merchandise they like, totally unrelated to Virgil anyhow.. There's a reason why the toys never say 'Virgil's Eevee, or Jolteon, or Glaceon' or whatever even if they have the Best Wishes-logo on them. Only Pikachu and a few select others get that.

    Take a look at DP for that matter, if you saw Zoey with Leafeon, you wouldn't be as much inclined to go and buy Jolteon merchandise now would you? Simply because you don't associate Jolteon with Zoey at all. You not buying a toy when they can arguably get you to do so if they create a character that makes you associate all of them with him, is a profit loss for them.

    People don't even have to know the guy who has them at all, considering the posts here. Nobody knew what Virgil would be like and yet every Eeveelution fanboy left and right jumped on the bandwagon.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    So? Still doesn't excuse all the meaningless hate towards Virgil just for existing and having the eeveelutions.
    The 'hate' is towards the fanboys that have lost their minds. Virgil can exist, the fanboys just need to calm down and get realistic for once. This has been worse then Auraholism.

    Quote Originally Posted by The 4th Kira View Post
    The people who were bashing his team only did so because they were threatened by Virgil. They know that he's going to defeat Ash at the League, so they bashed his Pokemon in order to vent their frustration. I personally think his team is incredibly diverse as far as types go and they can cover each other's weaknesses, which will probably make up for their lack of physical strength. It's funny though because if Virgil had a team of big bad Pokemon like Tobias did, people would still complain about him. It just goes to show that what I said earlier is more of a fact than an opinion.
    This is a nice one.. xD

    People weren't generally bashing his team, people were just far more annoyed by the biased Eevee-fanboys that adore him, state that he's going to win the league, eventhough when this was that we only knew he had the Eevee's and one facial shot!

    If you want to go into detail/facts: His team isn't diverse, it will consist of six types at the league at most, which is a narrow group, unless you're a type specialist. Take a look at Paul's (heavily bashed) team during the Sinnoh league:
    - Aggron: Steel/Rock
    - Gastrodon: Water/Ground
    - Drapion: Poison/Dark
    - Ninjask: Bug/Flying
    - Froslass: Ice/Ghost
    - Electivire: Electric
    That's 11 types, now tell me again that Virgil's team is incredibly diverse with a straight face.

    Look at Ash's team at any point during the league, he will have more then six types on his team. Unless he's going to run with:
    - Pikachu
    - Oshawott
    - Palpitoad
    - Krookodile
    - Scraggy
    - Pignite

    In which case he'd have six types: Electric, Water, Ground, Dark, Fighting, Fire. In which case he'd still be more diverse, considering that 2/3rd of his team would consist of dual types.

    They can only cover eachother weaknesses on paper, or double/triple battles. Something Ash's pokemon are also capable of on paper, or double/triple battles.

    If Virgil had a team of big bad pokemon I'd be happy because I wouldn't have to hear the Eevee Fanboy's going wild and crazy.

    Quote Originally Posted by ShinyCharyZard View Post
    Thanks guys for explaining the Ex Special thing, but I still doubt that they're actually going by that logic. I think its more likely that they're just going for whatever they feel like and it has purely been coincidental that they're in this Ex Special category.

    If anything, I really so assume that they just try and make them as one being super effective against another. Currently we have:

    Electric>Water>Fire>Ice>Grass and Dark>Psychic.

    I think that next we could be seeing Flying and another type to partially fill in that void. But like I said before, this isn't really the place for that kind of discussion, so after this post, my thoughts about said subject will end.

    Thanks again for the explanation
    If we go by your logic, then Flying would be a middle man between Rock and Bug. So you wouldn't necessarily need it actually..
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    The only hate I have towards Virgil is that people are treating him like some god.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    The only hate I have towards Virgil is that people are treating him like some god.
    Or genius, solely based on Eeveelutions being present..
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    Virgil has hate? But he hasn't even appeared yetXD I'm curious how Ash will deal with all of his team, how long it will last and what number this fight will be placed in? I assume this guy is going to be the Tobias of the league, at least they are giving him an episode before the league though.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    Virgil has hate? But he hasn't even appeared yetXD I'm curious how Ash will deal with all of his team, how long it will last and what number this fight will be placed in? I assume this guy is going to be the Tobias of the league, at least they are giving him an episode before the league though.
    Iris had hate before appearing because she took Hikari spot /rimshot.
    Kotetsu had hate before appearing because he had a Riolu and also a Samurott.
    Shootie had hate because he was Shinji succesor as a main rival.
    Kenyan has hate because he has hate and because he beat Belle two, the only rival that gets no hate besides from Thing and me in the Don tournament.
    Last edited by Pepsi_Plunge; 13th November 2012 at 6:19 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    Virgil has hate? But he hasn't even appeared yet XD I'm curious how Ash will deal with all of his team, how long it will last and what number this fight will be placed in? I assume this guy is going to be the Tobias of the league, at least they are giving him an episode before the league though.
    Virgil's fans generate hate, because they - in general - only like him because of a fanboy attitude towards Eeveelutions, which causes Virgil to be disliked.

    It's all because they make claims they can't really back up logically, such as how his team is 'more diverse' when it's only consisting of six types during a full league battle, where Ash's team will also at least consist of six types, but in general will consist of any number between that and nine, for instance: Pikachu, Unfezant, Oshawott, Pignite, Snivy, Scraggy: Eight types.

    Also, assuming that Virgil is going to be the Tobias of the league. There are major differences: Tobias was a writing tool in order to get Ash out of the league, while making him look like the second best contender in the league (the finalist couldn't beat Darkrai), while Virgil is a marketing tool meant to be associated with the Eeveelutions in order to sell plushies. Tobias was introduced through the course of the league, while Virgil is a character met before the league, and during the league we move back toward, Trip, Bianca, Stephan and Kotetsu judging by the summaries. Yes, Virgil will remain in the league and Ash will fight him (again, only for marketing reasons), but the summaries indicate that he's not the most important contender and isn't going to be built up like Tobias was built up. Even more, Tobias was presented as an elite trainer, while Virgil works at his family's company..

    I'm not expecting him to get past the third round. Meaning he will get to use each Eeveelution+Eevee at least once and then get kicked off..

    Kotetsu on the other hand is being used a writing tool. They make him a lot like Ash, going through the same situations in BW2-10 even, but tweaking him a little bit in that he doesn't want to be a Pokemon Master, but a Pokemon Champion. If the writers have to make Ash lose, then they are going to make him lose to somebody who Ash wouldn't feel to bad about losing to, a friend who has a similar dream, and gets closer to that dream by defeating him.

    - Trip: I'm not going to count him as his dream was actually battling Alder, in which he succeeded in obtaining. Also the reason why he likely got kicked out in the preliminaries.
    - Bianca: Just generally wants to do well, so I'm going to assume she will go through a couple of rounds.
    - Stephan: Finally wants a match with Ash. The writers have made them rivals, but they've only fought once and Stephan wants a rematch, will likely face Ash and lose.
    - Virgil: Is a marketingploy, I assume he's entering because he wants to make sure his team is strong enough. Meaning he's going through a few rounds, but not going to win.
    - Kotetsu: Has the explicit dream of becoming a Pokemon Champion..

    In that sense Virgil and Bianca could better be seen as the Nando's of this series, competitors that generally want to do well, but don't see the end goal as their goal. Just like how Nando just wanted to test his merits in both coordinating and battling.
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    Quote Originally Posted by BlueDragonfangirl View Post
    Virgil has hate? But he hasn't even appeared yetXD I'm curious how Ash will deal with all of his team, how long it will last and what number this fight will be placed in? I assume this guy is going to be the Tobias of the league, at least they are giving him an episode before the league though.
    He has hate because everybody is assuming he's gonna pwn Ash in the league lol. I just dislike him because I don't like the characters that appear just as league opponents.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    The only hate I have towards Virgil is that people are treating him like some god.
    They are. I never though Virgil was any closer to be stronger than Tobais. That's only opinion and nothing more. But if they want Ash to lose to anyone, he can because he's done it before. This is why I liked Tobais because people knew zero about him and hated him until after the damn match was over so that the complaining can start not before the boy even begins.

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    He has hate because everybody is assuming he's gonna pwn Ash in the league lol. I just dislike him because I don't like the characters that appear just as league opponents.
    If he does, I will love him. Not everyone fancies Ash.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    He has hate because everybody is assuming he's gonna pwn Ash in the league lol. I just dislike him because I don't like the characters that appear just as league opponents.
    Well you can dislike him because of that but he is the likeliest candidate of knocking Ash out of the league like Ritchie, Harrison, Tyson, and Tobias.
    No one is treating him like a god, it's just that we don't have unrealistic hopes that Bianca/Stephan/Kotetsu will knock him out. Would be nice for Bianca to do it (to me) but I doubt it.



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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Well you can dislike him because of that but he is the likeliest candidate of knocking Ash out of the league like Ritchie, Harrison, Tyson, and Tobias.
    No one is treating him like a god, it's just that we don't have unrealistic hopes that Bianca/Stephan/Kotetsu will knock him out. Would be nice for Bianca to do it (to me) but I doubt it.
    I think the same. He seems the classical older Trainer that will beat Ash at the League. And I don't think that the Ranger thing is much of an issue. He could have traveled to the various cities, won the badges and always returned at home. We don't know that, but we know that he has won 8 badges and as such he should be a decent Trainer. That's what matters.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    we know that he has won 8 badges and as such he should be a decent Trainer.
    Well unless he won them Kanto Ash style.... kidding XD

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    well only problem i have with this i'd rather ash get an eevee himself..not have some trainer with all the eeveeultions..that is just lazy ****ing writting is what it is

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    Quote Originally Posted by knux-the-killer View Post
    If he does, I will love him. Not everyone fancies Ash.
    Somebodies watching the wrong show lol.

    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Well you can dislike him because of that but he is the likeliest candidate of knocking Ash out of the league like Ritchie, Harrison, Tyson, and Tobias.
    No one is treating him like a god, it's just that we don't have unrealistic hopes that Bianca/Stephan/Kotetsu will knock him out. Would be nice for Bianca to do it (to me) but I doubt it.
    Ya and I want them to change this ridiculous formula already. Seriously he has three rivals that could of done it. The writers rely on the same **** over and over again cuz the kiddies don't know what the hell is going on anyways.

    Quote Originally Posted by Cresselia92 View Post
    I think the same. He seems the classical older Trainer that will beat Ash at the League. And I don't think that the Ranger thing is much of an issue. He could have traveled to the various cities, won the badges and always returned at home. We don't know that, but we know that he has won 8 badges and as such he should be a decent Trainer. That's what matters.
    The point is this formula is crap already when he has rivals.
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    Why can't Ash just simply get through all his rivals and win the league? :-(
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    Quote Originally Posted by ludiloco View Post
    Why can't Ash just simply get through all his rivals and win the league? :-(
    Because the league he has to win and will win is the Indigo league its what makes most sense to me.

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    I heard Oshawott's voice after the preview for this episode, not sure if its confirmed or anything and I could see him falling in love with an Eeveelution or all of them!

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    I agree with what people are saying, that he is going to be the one to beat ash in the leagues. But why? He's got Trip, Stephan, Bianca (Not a fan) why can't one of the rivals he's had for a while beat him. I'd settle with kotetsu!! Back to this episode, i'm really not keen on a guy with nothing but eeveelutions. but then again it will probably make a good episode.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    I heard Oshawott's voice after the preview for this episode, not sure if its confirmed or anything and I could see him falling in love with an Eeveelution or all of them!
    Oshawott doesn't have a speaking appearance here, its va wasnt listed

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    Quote Originally Posted by Ash&Pikachu-Fan View Post
    I heard Oshawott's voice after the preview for this episode, not sure if its confirmed or anything and I could see him falling in love with an Eeveelution or all of them!
    Oh yea. I did hear him as well. Maybe he just said it, just to say it. Like Ace said, his voice actor isn't on the list, so he's probably not having a speaking role.

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    Quote Originally Posted by _Taidow_ View Post
    Well you can dislike him because of that but he is the likeliest candidate of knocking Ash out of the league like Ritchie, Harrison, Tyson, and Tobias.
    No one is treating him like a god, it's just that we don't have unrealistic hopes that Bianca/Stephan/Kotetsu will knock him out. Would be nice for Bianca to do it (to me) but I doubt it.
    Based on absolutely nothing.

    No one is treating him like a god? Well it comes darn close.. Believing in 'God' is believing in a character from man written book, that you can't prove to exist by any means, but do ascribe the most lunatic events to. So a character you don't have a good picture of at all. Just like we know nothiing of Virgil, and in particular his battle strength, and yet you ascribe him as being the most likely to knock Ash out of the tournament. You are believing in Virgil, as a christian would believe in god: with no proof of existing factors at all.

    Why is he the likeliest? I have no clue. And why is that? Because we haven't even seen him battle, that's why. That's a chunk of speculation from your part. If anything, then Kotetsu is more like Ritchie (a literary foil to Ash), and thus more likely. You are treating Virgil like a god, or at least giving him more credit then that he deserves at this point. You're giving him the title of 'the likeliest candidate of knocking Ash out of the league' while you haven't even seen him battle once. That's overappraising the character and it got annoying, really fast I might add. I care to appraise what I've seen, and so far, Kotetsu is doing fine in battles, thus I will not stand by idle and let the Virgil bandwagon continue like that... Especially when you counter substantiated arguments with claims of them being 'unrealistic hopes'. That sounds like something a christian would say when you dash their believes... 'you have unrealistic hopes and need to read the bible in order to save it, blabla' <- At least that was said to me.

    Unrealistic hope is again your opinion in this case, and that's one I generally in this case don't give about anymore, as it's clear that there isn't any logic behind your motives other then that he looks older and thus has more chance to beat Ash. We've at least seen Bianca, Stephan and Kotetsu fight. Bianca and Kotetsu might be a bit ditzy outside of battles, but in their battles, they're not at all. Samurott beating Mantine without getting hit once is a testament to that, you can't deny that, and yet you are favoring a character that hasn't even battled on screen, again with the overappraising a character what the Virgil-fans tend to do. The summaries are talking about Bianca and Kotetsu, Virgil is just there. Virgil is a marketing ploy for Eeveelution plushies, while Kotetsu is a writing tool that foils Ash's character like Ritchie did back in Kanto.

    I'm getting sick and tired of it. And don't call this Virgil hate, I might've liked the guy if his 'fans' weren't so obsessive..

    Quote Originally Posted by YokoKurama View Post
    Oh yea. I did hear him as well. Maybe he just said it, just to say it. Like Ace said, his voice actor isn't on the list, so he's probably not having a speaking role.
    Oshawott doesn't get mute roles.. That's clear to say..
    Last edited by Locormus; 13th November 2012 at 10:06 PM.
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    Ash losing to an team of Eevee evolutions is bad writing, if he was to lose, I perfer someone with a powerful team. And I doubt Ash is gonna do the Indigo league again.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Alexander18 View Post
    Ash losing to an team of Eevee evolutions is bad writing, if he was to lose, I perfer someone with a powerful team. And I doubt Ash is gonna do the Indigo league again.
    Who knows, that kid with the Eevee from way back then might have an Eevee team now and all the stans would claim that he will be the one to beat Ash..

    Bet on it..
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