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Thread: Community POTW #92 - Special

  1. #26

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    One quick word of advice. Freeze Shock can be somewhat useful on Kyurem-B because he has little else in the way of good physical moves, but Kyurem-W should never run Freeze Burn. Between Draco Meteor, Dragon Pulse, Blizzard, Ice Beam, Fusion Flare, Focus Blast, and Earth Power, there is really no shortage of good special moves in Kyurem-W's movepool. Ice Beam, or even Blizzard, will always be better and more reliable options. Trust me, if Kyurem-B got as much as Ice Punch, I wouldn't even recommend Freeze Shock in the first place.

  2. #27
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    dunno if this is posted yet, but:
    Kyurem-W @ Choice Scarf
    TurboBlaze
    Modest
    252 SpA/4 SpD/252 Spe
    -Draco Meteor
    -Fusion Flare
    -Ice Beam
    -Dragon Pulse

    Solid STABs with the best coverage move. Awesome revenge killer, but needs spin support.
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  3. #28

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    I will be back to post something. Just leaving a footnote about the last potw that needs to be corrected.



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    White Kyurem

    Item: Choice Scarf
    Nature: Modest
    EVs: 252 SpA / 252 Spe / 4 Def
    Ability: Turboblaze
    Moveset:
    - Dragon Pulse
    - Blizzard
    - Fusion Flare
    - Ice Beam

    Simple, use whatever move fits. If there is no hail, ice beam is safe than blizzard.
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  5. #30
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    Kyurem-W is definitely the better of the two. It has a better movepool, and can still KO things with uber Special Defense. Poor Kyurem-B doesn't get a physical Ice move besides Freeze Shock, which has an undesirable side effect. This probably won't drop it from the Ubers tier but Kyurem-B will probably be passed up for Kyurem-W a lot of the time.

    I'm not gonna post any sets because they've basically been covered. One week. We can do this people.

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  6. #31
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    Kyurem Black

    Set: Substitute Attacker
    ~ Substitute
    ~ Outrage / Dragon Claw
    ~ Freeze Shock
    ~ Fusion Bolt
    Item: Leftovers
    Nature: Jolly
    Evs: 52 HP / 204 Atk / 252 Spe

    After playing around with this set, I've found it works fantastically with entry hazard support. The premise is simple: Sub on a switch or a status move, then hit hard. Sub is mainly used for Freeze Shock to have a turn to charge, as it will hit anything that's slower than Kyurem when its behind a Sub, and even it they resist it hits hard. Jolly with max speed investment allows for a Sub to be set quickly, as well as to ensure Kyurem will have a turn to charge Freeze Shock against a slower opponent. The HP evs allow for 101 HP Subs, so Night Shades and Seismic Tosses won't break them in one hit. The rest are put into attack for power, as even without max investment and with leftovers over life orb, Kyurem can OHKO to 2HKO most opponents with Freeze Shock after entry hazard damage. Outrage allows for Dragon STAB and hit quite hard, while Dragon Claw means you wont have to stay locked in on a move. Fusion Bolt is to slam Kyogre, Manaphy, and Ho-oh among other things.

  7. #32
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    Black an white kyruem. Two of the most powerful monsters in ubers with their attack stats only being passed by deoxys-A. However, both have a limited movepool that is very lackluster.

    White-Kyruem: The best movepool wise out of the two, being able to abuse moves like draco meteor and ice beam more so than its counterpart. Also add fusion flare into the mix and you have a pokemon than can abuse all of the weather conditions barring sandstorm.

    Black Kyruem: The one who got the short end of the stick. While it has amazing attack, it has a move pool that has little to suit it. The prime example of this is that the only physical ice move it gets is freeze shock which could allow your opponent to get 1 set up or a status move in. But with B-kyruem's attack anymove you use will 2-3HKO your opponent.




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    Cool, two awesome uber pokemon.

    My kyurem white set
    Snow blind
    Choice scarf
    Modest
    252 spd,252 sp att,4hp
    Draco meteor
    Fusion flare
    Ice beam
    Focus blast

    Ok. This guy is staple in my ubers team. Nature and evs to put dents in most teams. Draco meteor hits very hard, as well as ice beam. Fusion flare destroys forretress (who seems very frequent in ubers), and focus blast for arceus and darkrai.

    Counters for white form.
    Stealth rocks are staple against this. Palkia, and dialga are strong, but palkia is killed by dragon moves. Dialga survies more and comes back with draco meteor

  9. #34
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    Black Kyurem and White Kyurem. Both are very destructive forces who each have their advantages and disadvantages.

    Even Giovanni couldn't tear down these walls

    White Kyurem
    Ability: Turboblaze
    Nature: Timid
    Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
    EV's: 56 HP/200 SPA/252 SP

    Substitute
    Roost
    Fusion Flare/Earth Power
    Dragon Pulse/Ice Beam

    Black Kyurem
    Ability: Teravolt
    Nature: Jolly
    Item: Leftovers/Life Orb
    EV's: 56 HP/200 AT/252 SP

    Substitute
    Roost
    Fusion Bolt
    Outrage/Dragon Claw

    It doesn't take much for Kyurem to reach 404 hit points which create substitutes Seismic Toss and Night Shade can't break. Roost allows it to heal when its health runs low. The biggest point of contention is the item. Leftovers grants it the ability to stay in longer. Life Orb grants it a power boost at the expense of hit points. I've given them 405 hit points rather than 404 to allow it to create 4 substitutes or survive 4 rounds of Stealth Rock damage.

    I need to hone my claws so that they can crush you better.

    Black Kyurem
    Ability: Teravolt
    Nature: Jolly
    Item: Salac Berry
    EV's: 4 HP/252 AT/252 SP or 52 HP/204 AT/252 SP

    Substitute
    Hone Claws
    Fusion Bolt
    Dragon Claw/Outrage

    The idea behind this set is to use Hone Claws to boost your insane attack into even more insane levels. After three subs, the Salac Berry activates improving its speed. Either EV spread could be used although the second spread allows you withstand Seismic Toss or Night Shade and keep your sub up allowing more uses of Hone Claws.

    Can anything stop the sheer power of these mythical beasts?

    White Kyurem
    Ability: Turboblaze
    Nature: Timid
    Item: Choice Scarf
    EV's: 4 DE/252 SPA/252 SP

    Draco Meteor
    Ice Beam
    Fusion Flare
    Earth Power/Focus Blast

    Black Kyurem
    Ability: Teravolt
    Nature: Jolly
    Item: Choice Scarf
    EV's: 4 DE/252 AT/252 SP

    Outrage
    Freeze Shock
    Fusion Bolt
    Dragon Claw

    At 95 base speed, they aren't going to be outrunning everything, but what they can outrun better be prepared to take a massive attack as otherwise, major holes will be ripped through the opponent's team. White Kyurem will have an easier time as it can claw through steels much better than Black Kyurem.
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  10. #35
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    Kyurem-W@Choice Scarf/Choice Specs
    Turboblaze
    Modest/Timid/Hasty
    4HP/252SAtk/252Spe
    -Fusion Flare/Earth Power
    -Draco Meteor/Dragon Pulse
    -Ice Beam/Blizzard
    -Earth Power/Focus Blast/Sleep Talk/Outrage

    Kyurem-W is a beast in Ubers. With a massive base 170 special attack, who wouldn't be scared of it? Fusion Flare is a good attack that can easily kill Abomasnow, Genesect, Jirachi (provided it's in the sun) and Ferrothorn. Shaymin also dies against it but there's no point as Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse easily finishes the job. Earth Power OHKOs Heatran and Excadrill. Draco Meteor and Dragon Pulse are excellent STABs. I recommend Draco Meteor with Choice Scarf Modest or Timid and Dragon Pulse for Choice Scarf Modest, Choice Specs Timid and Choice Specs Modest. Ice Beam may seem strange as we got powerful STABs already but it can OHKO's Lugia thanks to Turboblaze, which negates Multiscale. Ice Beam can also OHKO Gliscor as well. Hail is optional if you have a hail team. Blizzard becomes useful then as it won't miss at all. Focus Blast isn't exactly the best move to use but it OHKO's Heatran as well as 2-3 hit KO Blissey. Sleep Talk is if you're team is having troubles with Darkrai. Outrage is only if it's only Choice Scarf and the only reason why you use Hasty nature. It 2HKO's Blissey and OHKO Latios and Latias if they choose to Calm Mind. Choice Specs Modest allows it to have a sky high 723 special attack.

    You probably want some spinners such as Fortress and Tentacruel. Magic Bounce users are also pretty useful as well. Entry hazards are quite a pain so I suggest you get rid of them before you send it out. With that high special attack, it's all worth it.


    Kyurem-B@Life Orb/Choice Scarf/Choice Band/Power Herb/Focus Sash
    Teravolt
    Adamant/Jolly/Naive
    252Atk/4 SAtk/252Spe
    -Fusion Bolt/Stone Edge
    -Outrage
    -Earth Power/ Dragon Claw/Freeze Shock
    -Roost/Ice Beam

    This set is to be used in ubers (even though PO has allowed it in OU) Fusion Bolt is pretty powerful which allows it too OHKO not defense invested Kyogre. Stone Edge can be used for Thundurus. Outrage is indeed a power attack and with Kyurem-B's max 723 attack with Choice Band and Adamant. Earth Power allows it to OHKO Heatran and Excadrill. Dragon Claw is another option if Kyurem-B is going to stay for one turn. Kyurem-B's physical movepool is pretty shallow so Freeze Shock is only if you want to hit hard but you should only have Power Herb on the set. It may seems redundant since you have Outrage but Multiscale Lugia has it's ability negated due to Teravolt. Roost is there for instant recovery while Ice Beam is if you wish to OHKO gliscor.

    Life Orb is an option to hit hard although entry hazards already cause enough troubles so you might not want to damage it more. Choice Scarf is to out speed other uber pokemon. Choice Band already gives it a huge attack stat. Power Herb is only for Freeze Shock. Focus Sash is only if you allow it to lead.

    You probably want some spinners such as Fortress and Tentacruel. Magic Bounce users are also pretty useful as well. Entry hazards are quite a pain so I suggest you get rid of them before you send it out. With that high attack, it's all worth it.


    A doubles set for Kyurem-W would be...


    Kyurem-W@Choice Scarf
    Turboblaze
    Modest
    4HP/252SAtk/252Spe
    -Icy Wind
    -Blizzard
    -Draco Meteor
    -Earth Power

    With this set, you wanna set up hail ASAP. Blizzard is very powerful with the STAB as well as hitting both of the pokemon. Icy Wind lowers both of the foes speed as well. Draco Meteor easily OHKOs anything. Earth Power is for Heatran and Excadrill.


    I said this was a set. Not a good one.

    A doubles set for Kyurem-B would be...

    Kyurem-B@Choice Scarf
    Teravolt
    Adamant/Naughty
    252Atk/4SAtk/252Spe
    -Rock Slide
    -Outrage
    -Blizzard
    -Icy Wind

    Set up hail with Abomasnow. Blizzard packs a punch. Icy Wind allows lower speed. Rock Slide hits both foes plus there's that flinch chance. Outrage packs a ton.


    It wasn't horrible when I tested the set but it wasn't amazing either.

    For partners, they both can use Abomasnow. Hail+Blizzard is very powerful especially with Kyurem-W.

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  11. #36
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    Someone used Kyreum-B as a surefire Darkrai counter:

    Kyreum-B @ Life Orb/Leftovers
    252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Nature: Adamant
    -Sleep Talk
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Outrage

    How many moves do you really even need? Sleep talk will kill Darkrai. It's more late game, just in case something that resists Electric and Dragon moves could check it. Exadrill's horrible defensive stats won't do anything anyways really, so...

    Yeah, late game sweeper, Darkrai counter before Sleep Clause. I mean, what other moves do you even need late game? It's not like Kyreum has a nice Mew movepool...or even an Arceus one... or even a Ditto one.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Digletto View Post
    Someone used Kyreum-B as a surefire Darkrai counter:

    Kyreum-B @ Life Orb/Leftovers
    252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Nature: Adamant
    -Sleep Talk
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Outrage

    How many moves do you really even need? Sleep talk will kill Darkrai. It's more late game, just in case something that resists Electric and Dragon moves could check it. Exadrill's horrible defensive stats won't do anything anyways really, so...

    Yeah, late game sweeper, Darkrai counter before Sleep Clause. I mean, what other moves do you even need late game? It's not like Kyreum has a nice Mew movepool...or even an Arceus one... or even a Ditto one.
    I was the one who posted that set. Mostly because Kyurem-B simply lacks the movepool for other moves, and hits ridiculously hard. It should also be noted that Darkrai will win if Kyurem-B doesn't hold a Choice Scarf.

    Also, Bulky Excadrill is actually quite common, since it has an above average base 110 HP stat.
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  13. #38
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    Kyurem-B gets stone edge it is a good option against Ho-oh and Lugia which is a good filler.. you outrun ho-oh and most lugias don't use spd EVs so you might beat them.
    Black Kyurem is OU for now in PO server so you might try to find a counter but I doubt it have.. although ferrothorn resisting his Stab and his semi signature move I doubt he isn't 2HKOed maybe Steelix can take 3 attack it needs calculations..
    It is absurd he doesn't even get earthquake it would solve a little of his movepool problem..

    Oh and did somebody noticed Kyurem-B has a base 120 sp.attack? what's wrong with using Ice Beam?
    Last edited by Ilan; 1st October 2012 at 12:27 AM.


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  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by MatchMaster View Post
    I was the one who posted that set. Mostly because Kyurem-B simply lacks the movepool for other moves, and hits ridiculously hard. It should also be noted that Darkrai will win if Kyurem-B doesn't hold a Choice Scarf.

    Also, Bulky Excadrill is actually quite common, since it has an above average base 110 HP stat.
    You posted this here? I'm sorry I should have looked. I saw this on another site, but with Zekrom and Bolt Strike.

    Please explain how Darkrai would win?

    Darkrai used Dark Void
    Kyreum-B fell asleep!
    Kyreum-B used Sleep talk
    Kyreum-B used Outrage!
    Darkrai fainted!

    And like I said (and you know), it's a late game sweeper, so Exadrill should be gone.

  15. #40
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    Just one question, if normal kyurem changes forme, does it replace Scary Face with Fusion Flare/Bolt and Glaciate with Freeze Shock/Ice Burn? I'm still not sure how its movesets change. Anywayz:

    White Kyurem
    Nature:Timid
    Ability: Turboblaze
    Item: Choice Scarf
    EV: 252 Sp.Att and Speed each, 4 Hp
    Moves:
    -Fusion Flare/Earth Power(maybe)
    -Ice Beam/Earth Power
    -Draco Meteor
    -Shadow Ball/Focus Blast

    Fire/Dragon combo alone is a PERFECT coverage, even with Fire STAB.


    Black Kyurem @ Life Orb/Power Herb (that red feather thingy that makes skull bash, solarbeam etc a one-turn move)
    Nature: Hasty
    EV: 252 Att and Spd, 4 Sp.Att
    -Dragon Claw
    -Freeze Shock
    -Earth Power
    -Fusion Bolt

    Aura Flare Riolu convinces me that Freeze Shock may actually be a good ice move, despite being a 2-turn move. Don't forget the speedy sweepers are the main part of the metagame, so with its 30% par chance, only steel, bulky pokemon that can resists ice are the safest switch-in. That's where Earth Power comes in! Fusion Bolt conveniently handles skarmory. What's left is Levitate Bronzong.

    I find dragon claw safer than outrage in this set.

    So, should Sp.Att Evs be more invested in than Att?
    Last edited by pikadon92; 1st October 2012 at 4:47 AM.

  16. #41
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    Black Kyurem
    Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 152 Speed, 106 HP
    Item: Muscle Band/Choice Band/Life Orb/Persim Berry/Lum Berry
    Fusion Bolt
    Outrage
    Freeze Shock
    Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Shadow Claw/Payback

    White Kyurem
    Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 152 Speed, 106 HP
    Item: Wise Specs/Choice Speces/Life Orb/White Herb
    Ice Burn
    Draco Meteor
    Fusion Flare
    Endeavor

    Partners
    Hail-users
    Safeguard-users

    Countering:
    Black Kyurem- Defensive and high Sp Attack with Fighting/Rock/Dragon/Steel-type moves like Arcanine, TR Lickilicky and TR Flash Cannon Probopass/Magnezone.
    White Kyurem- Defensive and high Attack with Fighting/Rock/Dragon/Steel-type moves like Swampert, Hitmontop, Reversal/Superpower Stoutland, Revenge/Iron Head Bouffalant, and TR Scrafty/Tyranitar/Dusknoir/Metagross.
    Other pokemon includes Blastoise, Gyro Ball Ferrothorn, TR Flash Cannon Empoleon, and TR Iron Head Bronzong/Escavalier.
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    ^ The only thing that you list as a counter that can actually switch into a Specs Draco Meteor or Fusion Flare is Probopass, and Probopass in Ubers? Really? Empoleon could take one DM I guess possibly, but probably dies to a second one. Also, if you run Focus Blast>Endeavor, all of those pokemon lose.

    White Kyurem @ Choice Specs
    Timid
    4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
    Draco Meteor
    Ice Beam
    Focus Blast
    Fusion Flare

    This thing OHKOes offensive Excadrill, and does one thing only 4 special attackers in Ubers can do: 2HKO Excadrill. The others being Darkrai, Kyogre, and Mewtwo. But that's beside the point. Specs Draco Meteor is incredibly tough to switch into: Think Specs Latios's Draco Meteor, but 40 base points stronger.
    Last edited by Vandslaux; 1st October 2012 at 1:14 PM.


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  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digletto View Post
    You posted this here? I'm sorry I should have looked. I saw this on another site, but with Zekrom and Bolt Strike.

    Please explain how Darkrai would win?

    Darkrai used Dark Void
    Kyreum-B fell asleep!
    Kyreum-B used Sleep talk
    Kyreum-B used Outrage!
    Darkrai fainted!

    And like I said (and you know), it's a late game sweeper, so Exadrill should be gone.
    Except that's assuming you selected Sleep Talk on the turn Darkrai used Dark Void, which can be risky since its a wasted turn if Darkrai simply attacks Kyurem-B. Offensive Sleep Talkers are also generally meant to switch into a Sleep-inducing move, so opponents will usually try to avoid putting these to sleep on purpose.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Digletto View Post
    Someone used Kyreum-B as a surefire Darkrai counter:

    Kyreum-B @ Life Orb/Leftovers
    252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
    Nature: Adamant
    -Sleep Talk
    -Fusion Bolt
    -Outrage

    How many moves do you really even need? Sleep talk will kill Darkrai. It's more late game, just in case something that resists Electric and Dragon moves could check it. Exadrill's horrible defensive stats won't do anything anyways really, so...

    Yeah, late game sweeper, Darkrai counter before Sleep Clause. I mean, what other moves do you even need late game? It's not like Kyreum has a nice Mew movepool...or even an Arceus one... or even a Ditto one.
    Loses to Sub Darkrai, loses to Nasty Plot, Fusion Bolt doesn't OHKO.

    A decent check but by no means a counter. No point in wasting moveslots when Darkrai is more easily checked by Scarf Zekrom running that exact set.

  20. #45

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    Quote Originally Posted by Blue Harvest View Post
    Loses to Sub Darkrai, loses to Nasty Plot, Fusion Bolt doesn't OHKO.

    A decent check but by no means a counter. No point in wasting moveslots when Darkrai is more easily checked by Scarf Zekrom running that exact set.
    In fact, I have used a similar set on Heracross even better. I did not scarf it, but gave it a band and it hit like a truck. It resists both Focus Blast and Dark Pulse which is usually all Darkrai uses. Both of its STABs hit super-effectively. And it gets a Guts boost from sleep. ST/Close Combat/Mega Horn

    For Kyurem relevant:

    Kyurem-W @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
    Timid
    4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
    - Fusion Flare
    - Draco Meteor
    - Ice Beam
    - Focus Blast

    Hits like a boss. Fusion Flare and Draco Meteor by themselves are unresisted. Ice Beam is powerful with Kyurem-W's insane SpAtt. Focus Blast provides good coverage. If this is your main sweeper, spin support is almost mandatory, because it has decent bulk, but it's nothing compared to other Ubers like Lugia. It also enjoys Chansey giving it HP back since it has no reliable coverage of its own. Modest could work, but you'll miss outrunning Zekrom and Reshiram........so don't use it.




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  21. #46
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    The problem with Heracross is that besides beating Darkrai (and really nothing is 100%, Darkrai can still win) it isn't very useful in ubers otherwise. Too slow, not really bulky, relatively bad coverage.

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    I see people use freeze shock + power herb on kyurem black a lot in ubers. Sounds good at first, but fails after. Should go in the other options area.
    Edit: counters for black kyurem: extreme killer arceus is what I resort to mainly. if it is locked in to a choiced move that isn't dragon type, palkia can enter and KO with draco meteor or spacial rend. Dialga is a similar matter. Rocks kill most sets, so a layer of rock won't harm anyone (except the foe, of course).
    Last edited by philzone; 2nd October 2012 at 6:36 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by philzone View Post
    I see people use freeze shock + power herb on kyurem black a lot in ubers. Sounds good at first, but fails after. Should go in the other options area.
    Edit: counters for black kyurem: extreme killer arceus is what I resort to mainly. if it is locked in to a choiced move that isn't dragon type, palkia can enter and KO with draco meteor or spacial rend. Dialga is a similar matter. Rocks kill most sets, so a layer of rock won't harm anyone (except the foe, of course).
    Counter- can switch to every move it hae and beat it I don't think arceus can switch to every move.. I don't think they have any counters..
    maybe Steelix is a counter to a kyurem-B not carrying ice beam.


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    Black & White Kyurem suffer from the same problem Normal Form Kyurem or "Grey Kyurem" does - Speed. Base 95 Speed is a problem if its opponent can get something in safely (usually a lucky switch or a KO replacement). Pokemon with STAB on one of Kyurem's weaknesses (Dragon, Steel, Rock, and Fighting) and a Speed advantage include:
    -Haxorus (Base 97)
    -Hydreigon (Base 98)
    -Genesect (Base 99)
    -Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Flygon (Base 100)
    -Garchomp (Base 102)
    -Mienshao (Base 105)
    -Keldeo, Cobalion, Terrakion, Virizion, Infernape (Base 108)
    -Durant (Base 109)
    -Archeops, Latios, Latias (Base 110)
    -Aerodactyl (Base 130)

    Many of those don't have the ability to soak a hit from Kyurem, but they can all chip off a decent chunk of HP and go down swinging. Even then, several other faster Pokemon can still hit with those Move Types (Alakazam's Focus Blast, Dugtrio's Rock Slide/Stone Edge) and Kyurem has to deal with Stealth Rock in any Form to get in...unless you lead with it...
    Pokémon X Friend Safari: Snover, Bergmite, Piloswine.

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  25. #50
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
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    Found a counter: 252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def) : 33.24% - 39.2% (3-4 hits to KO)
    and I think bronzong can also take on him since he doesn't get STAB on Volt Strike
    Kyurem-W have chansey and blissey.
    252 SpAtk Choice Specs Kyurem-W (+SpAtk) Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Chansey (+SpDef) : 30.4% - 35.94% (3-4 hits to KO)
    I think Reshiem is better than kyurem-W since it have less weknesses and STAB on his fire move.
    Last edited by Ilan; 3rd October 2012 at 2:13 PM.


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