Community POTW #92 - Special

[sbktdreed]

Black Kyurem
Adamant w/ 252 Attack, 152 Speed, 106 HP
Item: Muscle Band/Choice Band/Life Orb/Persim Berry/Lum Berry
Fusion Bolt
Outrage
Freeze Shock
Stone Edge/Rock Slide/Shadow Claw/Payback

White Kyurem
Modest w/ 252 Sp Attack, 152 Speed, 106 HP
Item: Wise Specs/Choice Speces/Life Orb/White Herb
Ice Burn
Draco Meteor
Fusion Flare
Endeavor

Partners
Hail-users
Safeguard-users

Countering:
Black Kyurem- Defensive and high Sp Attack with Fighting/Rock/Dragon/Steel-type moves like Arcanine, TR Lickilicky and TR Flash Cannon Probopass/Magnezone.
White Kyurem- Defensive and high Attack with Fighting/Rock/Dragon/Steel-type moves like Swampert, Hitmontop, Reversal/Superpower Stoutland, Revenge/Iron Head Bouffalant, and TR Scrafty/Tyranitar/Dusknoir/Metagross.
Other pokemon includes Blastoise, Gyro Ball Ferrothorn, TR Flash Cannon Empoleon, and TR Iron Head Bronzong/Escavalier.

[Vandslaux]

^ The only thing that you list as a counter that can actually switch into a Specs Draco Meteor or Fusion Flare is Probopass, and Probopass in Ubers? Really? Empoleon could take one DM I guess possibly, but probably dies to a second one. Also, if you run Focus Blast>Endeavor, all of those pokemon lose.

White Kyurem @ Choice Specs
Timid
4 HP/252 SpA/252 Speed
Draco Meteor
Ice Beam
Focus Blast
Fusion Flare

This thing OHKOes offensive Excadrill, and does one thing only 4 special attackers in Ubers can do: 2HKO Excadrill. The others being Darkrai, Kyogre, and Mewtwo. But that's beside the point. Specs Draco Meteor is incredibly tough to switch into: Think Specs Latios's Draco Meteor, but 40 base points stronger.

[MatchMaster]

You posted this here? I'm sorry I should have looked. I saw this on another site, but with Zekrom and Bolt Strike.

Please explain how Darkrai would win?

Darkrai used Dark Void
Kyreum-B fell asleep!
Kyreum-B used Sleep talk
Kyreum-B used Outrage!
Darkrai fainted!

And like I said (and you know), it's a late game sweeper, so Exadrill should be gone.

Except that's assuming you selected Sleep Talk on the turn Darkrai used Dark Void, which can be risky since its a wasted turn if Darkrai simply attacks Kyurem-B. Offensive Sleep Talkers are also generally meant to switch into a Sleep-inducing move, so opponents will usually try to avoid putting these to sleep on purpose.

[Blue Harvest]

Someone used Kyreum-B as a surefire Darkrai counter:

Kyreum-B @ Life Orb/Leftovers
252 Atk, 252 Spe, 4 HP
Nature: Adamant
-Sleep Talk
-Fusion Bolt
-Outrage

How many moves do you really even need? Sleep talk will kill Darkrai. It's more late game, just in case something that resists Electric and Dragon moves could check it. Exadrill's horrible defensive stats won't do anything anyways really, so...

Yeah, late game sweeper, Darkrai counter before Sleep Clause. I mean, what other moves do you even need late game? It's not like Kyreum has a nice Mew movepool...or even an Arceus one... or even a Ditto one.

Loses to Sub Darkrai, loses to Nasty Plot, Fusion Bolt doesn't OHKO.

A decent check but by no means a counter. No point in wasting moveslots when Darkrai is more easily checked by Scarf Zekrom running that exact set.

[jeffdavid102]

Loses to Sub Darkrai, loses to Nasty Plot, Fusion Bolt doesn't OHKO.

A decent check but by no means a counter. No point in wasting moveslots when Darkrai is more easily checked by Scarf Zekrom running that exact set.

In fact, I have used a similar set on Heracross even better. I did not scarf it, but gave it a band and it hit like a truck. It resists both Focus Blast and Dark Pulse which is usually all Darkrai uses. Both of its STABs hit super-effectively. And it gets a Guts boost from sleep. ST/Close Combat/Mega Horn

For Kyurem relevant:

Kyurem-W @ Choice Specs/Choice Scarf
Timid
4 HP / 252 SpA / 252 Spd
- Fusion Flare
- Draco Meteor
- Ice Beam
- Focus Blast

Hits like a boss. Fusion Flare and Draco Meteor by themselves are unresisted. Ice Beam is powerful with Kyurem-W's insane SpAtt. Focus Blast provides good coverage. If this is your main sweeper, spin support is almost mandatory, because it has decent bulk, but it's nothing compared to other Ubers like Lugia. It also enjoys Chansey giving it HP back since it has no reliable coverage of its own. Modest could work, but you'll miss outrunning Zekrom and Reshiram........so don't use it.

[Blue Harvest]

The problem with Heracross is that besides beating Darkrai (and really nothing is 100%, Darkrai can still win) it isn't very useful in ubers otherwise. Too slow, not really bulky, relatively bad coverage.

[philzone]

I see people use freeze shock + power herb on kyurem black a lot in ubers. Sounds good at first, but fails after. Should go in the other options area.
Edit: counters for black kyurem: extreme killer arceus is what I resort to mainly. if it is locked in to a choiced move that isn't dragon type, palkia can enter and KO with draco meteor or spacial rend. Dialga is a similar matter. Rocks kill most sets, so a layer of rock won't harm anyone (except the foe, of course).

[Ilan]

I see people use freeze shock + power herb on kyurem black a lot in ubers. Sounds good at first, but fails after. Should go in the other options area.
Edit: counters for black kyurem: extreme killer arceus is what I resort to mainly. if it is locked in to a choiced move that isn't dragon type, palkia can enter and KO with draco meteor or spacial rend. Dialga is a similar matter. Rocks kill most sets, so a layer of rock won't harm anyone (except the foe, of course).

Counter- can switch to every move it hae and beat it I don't think arceus can switch to every move.. I don't think they have any counters..
maybe Steelix is a counter to a kyurem-B not carrying ice beam.

[Kraleck]

Black & White Kyurem suffer from the same problem Normal Form Kyurem or "Grey Kyurem" does - Speed. Base 95 Speed is a problem if its opponent can get something in safely (usually a lucky switch or a KO replacement). Pokemon with STAB on one of Kyurem's weaknesses (Dragon, Steel, Rock, and Fighting) and a Speed advantage include:
-Haxorus (Base 97)
-Hydreigon (Base 98)
-Genesect (Base 99)
-Palkia, Jirachi, Salamence, Flygon (Base 100)
-Garchomp (Base 102)
-Mienshao (Base 105)
-Keldeo, Cobalion, Terrakion, Virizion, Infernape (Base 108)
-Durant (Base 109)
-Archeops, Latios, Latias (Base 110)
-Aerodactyl (Base 130)

Many of those don't have the ability to soak a hit from Kyurem, but they can all chip off a decent chunk of HP and go down swinging. Even then, several other faster Pokemon can still hit with those Move Types (Alakazam's Focus Blast, Dugtrio's Rock Slide/Stone Edge) and Kyurem has to deal with Stealth Rock in any Form to get in...unless you lead with it...

[Ilan]

Found a counter: 252 Atk Choice Band Kyurem-B (+Atk) Outrage vs 252 HP/252 Def Ferrothorn (+Def) : 33.24% - 39.2% (3-4 hits to KO)
and I think bronzong can also take on him since he doesn't get STAB on Volt Strike
Kyurem-W have chansey and blissey.
252 SpAtk Choice Specs Kyurem-W (+SpAtk) Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Chansey (+SpDef) : 30.4% - 35.94% (3-4 hits to KO)
I think Reshiem is better than kyurem-W since it have less weknesses and STAB on his fire move.

[philzone]

Prisim Berry

Do we have one of these?

I would suggest lum berry to suprise darkrai and other status pokemon by insta-healing. Could be other option

[Ilan]

Do we have one of these?

I would suggest lum berry to suprise darkrai and other status pokemon by insta-healing. Could be other option

We have all beries now .
Lum berry is always better.

[firerank9]

One thing to note with these pokemon forms, they maintain the Dragon/Ice Typeing. As Such, some good counters for Black Kyurem are Lucario/Aura Sphere, Any Spicial Fire/Dragon Moves, and Ninetails trained in Spical attack can and will 1 Hit KO.
Likewise, White Kyurem's weakness is any Fire/Fighting/Rock/ and Steel type Physical attack, which can be done by EVERY Fighting type that can learn Close Combat, or a Metagross's Meteor Mash.

[MatchMaster]

Kyurem-W have chansey and blissey.
252 SpAtk Choice Specs Kyurem-W (+SpAtk) Draco Meteor vs 252 HP/252 SpDef Eviolite Chansey (+SpDef) : 30.4% - 35.94% (3-4 hits to KO)

Both are 2HKO'd by Focus Blast after Stealth Rock and at least 2 layers of Spikes, and it will become even harder for them to stay alive if they switch into Focus Blast.

[Ilan]

One thing to note with these pokemon forms, they maintain the Dragon/Ice Typeing. As Such, some good counters for Black Kyurem are Lucario/Aura Sphere, Any Spicial Fire/Dragon Moves, and Ninetails trained in Spical attack can and will 1 Hit KO.
Likewise, White Kyurem's weakness is any Fire/Fighting/Rock/ and Steel type Physical attack, which can be done by EVERY Fighting type that can learn Close Combat, or a Metagross's Meteor Mash.

You really underestimate them if you think those are counters lucario can't switch to any attack he is too frail and he is also slower than kyurem they are not weak to fire only neutral, they have some bulk to survive some weak CC..
ninetales can't switch to Outrage and draco meteor.
those might be checks counters are those who can switch..


too bad chansey isn't a counter. so I can't think of any counter at all to Kyurem-W

[sbktdreed]

Do we have one of these?

I would suggest lum berry to suprise darkrai and other status pokemon by insta-healing. Could be other option

The biggest reason I chose Persim over Lum, because there's less of a chance to mess up the Outrage fix-up unless confusion occurs before safeguarding Kyurem. With the Lum Berry, there are other status conditions that can come into play you can use to use up the Lum Berry as well like Poison, Burn, Sleep, or Paralysis. It's a big problem when Kyurem damages itself because of confusion.

[philzone]

The biggest reason I chose Prisim over Lum, because there's less of a chance to mess up the Outrage fix-up unless confusion occurs before safeguarding Kyurem. With the Lum Berry, there are other status conditions that can come into play you can use to use up the Lum Berry as well like Poison, Burn, Sleep, or Paralysis. It's a big problem when Kyurem damages itself because of confusion.

Prisim berry doesn't exist. It is a PERSIM berry. Also, burn would be nice to get rid of, as the att loss is bad for it. And paralysis cripples it as it won't be able to confront stuff like rayquaza and palkia

[Ilan]

The biggest reason I chose Prisim over Lum, because there's less of a chance to mess up the Outrage fix-up unless confusion occurs before safeguarding Kyurem. With the Lum Berry, there are other status conditions that can come into play you can use to use up the Lum Berry as well like Poison, Burn, Sleep, or Paralysis. It's a big problem when Kyurem damages itself because of confusion.

Oh it was you who suggested it NVM..
But I will explain it anyway:
Lum berry is better since all status screw kyurem-B anyway and what's wrong with curing that annoying burn or toxic or whatever statuses are always annoying..
It also let him to check darkai. (and that random sableye)

[philzone]

Partners.
You will need a rapid spinner to take care of entry hazards. Go for hitmontop or forretress. (I use Forretress mainly).

[Blue Harvest]

Due to my computer exploding Serebii will be writing the POTW tonight!