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Thread: Should disobedient Pokemon be disqualified from official battles?

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    Default Should disobedient Pokemon be disqualified from official battles?

    I found a thread on Bulbagarden that really gave me food for thought:

    In the anime, we have seen many Pokémon be disobedient to their trainers. However, should there be a line drawn in terms of a Pokémon not listening to its trainer in an official battle like a Pokémon League/Gym Battle, Contest/Grand Festival or a smaller tournament like Don George or the Junior World Cup?

    I mean in some battles it is possible for an out of control Pokémon to actually do more harm than good in terms of beating the opponent. In some instances, it is possible for bystanders to actually get hurt during the battle.

    Remember Mamoswine being tossed into the Judges’ booth during the contest battle between Dawn and James dressed up as Jesselina in the DP series?

    Luckily, the audience wasn’t hurt during Dragonite’s outburst after being hit from Dragon Claw because that rampage could have really did some damage. Like Infernape’s Blaze during the 8th gym match in DP it nearly destroyed the arena with its Flamethrower.

    Charizard napping caused Ash to lose in the Indigo League so that is one example of a league not taking disobedient Pokemon lightly. However, that battle with Richie was basically a free for all with neither trainer really giving commands save for Butterfree using Sleep Powder on Squirtle.

    So, what do you think should a trainer be disqualified because their Pokemon doesn’t listen to it?

    Minus attacks like Thrash, Outrage, etc. that “naturally” cause a Pokemon to act out of control.
    And I'm inclined to agree with him. Hell, the only reason this isn't so in the actual Anime is because (all together now) the writers says so.

    So what are your thoughts on all this?

    And if you have a burning hatred for Bulbagarden, DON'T BRING IT UP! NOT EVEN CROSSED OUT!
    Last edited by matt0044; 3rd October 2012 at 11:23 PM.
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    Well I think that first of all, trainers should be able to control the Pokemon and it's moves before putting it in an important battle. I think that disqualifying the trainer and the Pokemon would be harsh in some scenarios. Like if you use a move that creats an out of control effect like outrage, the trainer should be able to regain control of the Pokemon. If not, then he should be disqualified. If the pokemon gets out of control for no reason the trainer should have a limited amount of time to regain control of its pokemon. If he does not succeed disqualification. The trainer should not say awhhh it's all right that you got out of control when the Pokemon nearly destroyed and/or nearly kills someone. So it's the Pokemon and the trainers fault if they get out of control more than once. Anyway, I hope this helps.

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    Last edited by Necro101; 2nd October 2012 at 8:10 PM.

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    Only under two circumstances.

    1. If the Pokemon's disobedience leaves the Pokemon unable to fight. Charizard napping (at least one other Pokemon was DQ'd for falling asleep I remember), a Pokemon leaving the arena, Emolga purposely switching out with Volt Switch, if a Pokemon knocks itself out in confusion or an angry fit.

    2. If the Pokemon seriously injuries a Pokemon or Person with their rampage. Not only Dragonite but when Tyson's Meowth went into a fit of rage and kept trying to attack Persian after knocking it out.

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    I kinda be inclined to disagree with him. A Trainer shouldnt be disqualified from an official battle because they cant get their Pokemon to obey them at the moment.. Pokemon battles are meant for a Trainer to bond with their Pokemon in the anime not to just battle and win like in the games -_- When a person battles with a disobdient Pokemon and are aware of the fact they obivously are trying their best to bond with them. But some butthurt fans are still mad about Iris and Dragonite from the WTJC so thats most likely why this statement was made. Notice how no one complained when disobdient Charzaird beat Blaine..
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    Every moment you mentioned has different explanation but talking about most recent one, do you really think people could have got hurt when there are two champions sitting there watching the battle? If they really thought that battle is going out of hand then they would have controlled it ignoring the fact that Champions like Cynthia don't usually participate in such manner.

    Overall I am not sure about this whole disobedience stuff. Nobody ever got hurt badly due to these Pokemon. The worst I can remember is Ash's hand getting burned while rubbing Charizard which actually was the after effect of its disobedience action.

    And then there is Reason Behind Disobedience clause. What if the trainer is trying to boost its Pokemon's confidence? In the start of BW Excadrill was not listening to Iris due to some sort of inferiority complex. If Iris had sent it in battle at that time then disqualifying it at that time would have been unfair.

    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    at least one other Pokemon was DQ'd for falling asleep I remember
    That was Ash's Squirtle in the same battle. Though the whole sleep thing was not out of disobedience but because of Butterfree's Sleep Powder.
    Last edited by Umbilical Noose; 2nd October 2012 at 8:49 PM.

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    Officially; No I can't see it happening.

    Unofficially: Yeah, the writers shouldn't include it too often.

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    Tbh, I think it depends on if the disobedient Pokemon is willing to battle or not.
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    Ash's charizard disqualified itself so i suppose there's a clause in there that says if it battles, then its okay but if the pokemon slacks off and refuses to fight then its a DQ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sceptile lover View Post
    Overall I am not sure about this whole disobedience stuff. Nobody ever got hurt badly due to these Pokemon. The worst I can remember is Ash's hand getting burned while rubbing Charizard which actually was the after effect of its disobedience action.
    People could've gotten hurt with Dragonite getting out of control. Just saying...

    I mean, if Charizard could get DQ'd for sleeping, what does that make this? Trainers should work on gaining their Pokemon's trust outside tournaments or official matches where something could possible go wrong.
    Last edited by matt0044; 11th October 2012 at 4:24 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ConUxie223 View Post
    I kinda be inclined to disagree with him. A Trainer shouldnt be disqualified from an official battle because they cant get their Pokemon to obey them at the moment.. Pokemon battles are meant for a Trainer to bond with their Pokemon in the anime not to just battle and win like in the games -_-
    And if someone gets sent to the hospital from a stray attack? Remember when Dragonite went crazy?


    When a person battles with a disobdient Pokemon and are aware of the fact they obivously are trying their best to bond with them. But some butthurt fans are still mad about Iris and Dragonite from the WTJC so thats most likely why this statement was made. Notice how no one complained when disobdient Charzaird beat Blaine..
    Gee, I wonder why...

    Oh, I know! It must be because Charizard wasn't being disobedient in that fight.

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    I'm surprised Iris hasn't been disqualified with that disobedient Dragonite she had in the tournament.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ConUxie223 View Post
    I kinda be inclined to disagree with him. A Trainer shouldnt be disqualified from an official battle because they cant get their Pokemon to obey them at the moment.. Pokemon battles are meant for a Trainer to bond with their Pokemon in the anime not to just battle and win like in the games -_- When a person battles with a disobdient Pokemon and are aware of the fact they obivously are trying their best to bond with them. But some butthurt fans are still mad about Iris and Dragonite from the WTJC so thats most likely why this statement was made. Notice how no one complained when disobdient Charzaird beat Blaine..
    Why should they have complained? Charizard was obedient against Blaine.
    Notice how Charizard was disqualified for not listening in the Indigo League and automatically counted as a loss in the first Blaine fight for not listening.

    Iris should have been disqualified in the WTJC, she had no control over Dragonite, the first and second round were bad enough, but the 3rd had it rampaging and endangering everyone there, and Iris just stood there and watched. Bonding with the Pokemon is fine, but tournaments are official battles meant to show the skill of the trainer, a disobedient Pokemon has no place there, since it defeats the very purpose of the tournament. If the method Iris used to win the first 2 rounds is allowed, then anyone can win as long as someone lends/gives them a ridiculously powerful Pokemon. They don't even need to issue a command, just let it out of the ball and recall at the end.

    Iris didn't win a single round in that tournament, Dragonite did it all on his own, yet she takes the credit. That makes no sense and she should have been disqualified the moment it was clear she had no control in round 2.

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    No. They usually lose anyway.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    Iris didn't win a single round in that tournament, Dragonite did it all on his own, yet she takes the credit. That makes no sense and she should have been disqualified the moment it was clear she had no control in round 2.
    Georgia said the most truthful thing then: "That was Dragonite's win, not your's."
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Georgia said the most truthful thing then: "That was Dragonite's win, not your's."
    So what? Iris still would've won if D-nite listened to her. The power of that beast is there whether it listens or not. It would've been great if it listened to Iris, but the writers were establishing a story.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Georgia said the most truthful thing then: "That was Dragonite's win, not your's."
    Georgia always makes up excuses for why she loses. If Dragonite was obeying, Iris would have won even faster so what she said didn't even make sense.

    "My loss doesn't count, I lost to you, not a DRAGON TYPE"

    "My loss doesn't count, I lost to a Dragon Type, not YOU"

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    So what? Iris still would've won if D-nite listened to her. The power of that beast is there whether it listens or not. It would've been great if it listened to Iris, but the writers were establishing a story.
    Sure Iris would've but she didn't in that match and Georgia meant that Dragonite won the match while Iris did jacksquat since her orders never got through to the behemoth then. She was commenting how there was practically no bond between Trainer and Pokemon on their end and Iris deserves no credit.
    Pokemon: The Black & White Adventure: 14 year old Hilda is a Pokemon Trainer with a secret: she can talk to Pokemon. After setting off into Unova with her starter, she gets involved in the affairs of Team Plasma and becomes acquainted with N, a mysterious guy her age with the exact same abilities as her. While enjoying her life, a tangled web of mystery is weaved around her and the reveal may shock her beyond belief...

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    If this was not a kid's show, do you think that Dragonite would have hit walls and the ground and nothing in the sky?
    Mamoswine would have surely injured someone with its recklessness.
    Charizard rampaged on after beating a Tauros in ONE HIT on the Orange Island. If it was not for Loreli's Slowbro who knows what would have happened.

    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Sure Iris would've but she didn't in that match and Georgia meant that Dragonite won the match while Iris did jacksquat since her orders never got through to the behemoth then. She was commenting how there was practically no bond between Trainer and Pokemon on their end and Iris deserves no credit.
    Agreed. Same with Ash and Charizard and Dawn and Mamoswine.
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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Sure Iris would've but she didn't in that match and Georgia meant that Dragonite won the match while Iris did jacksquat since her orders never got through to the behemoth then. She was commenting how there was practically no bond between Trainer and Pokemon on their end and Iris deserves no credit.
    Well of course she said that, she had to say something to soften that embarassing loss. I saw it as a little karma from Iris and Georgia's first battle when Beartic creamed Axew :P

    I don't think it really matters since at the end of the tournament, Georgia told Iris to keep working to become a dragon master and she was looking forward to when D-nite starts listening.

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    That was Ash's Squirtle in the same battle. Though the whole sleep thing was not out of disobedience but because of Butterfree's Sleep Powder.
    Yep, but I was thinking it was Bulbasaur and kept wondering why it sounded wrong. It's been so long since I watched that battle.

    Squirtle getting DQ'd was an extreme exception to the norm. I figured that the writers only called it against Ash because they were setting him up to lose before the battle even started.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    Squirtle getting DQ'd was an extreme exception to the norm. I figured that the writers only called it against Ash because they were setting him up to lose before the battle even started.
    Plus, they were making stuff up as they went along then.
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    No, as long as they stay on the field and battle.


    Pokemon battles are meant for a Trainer to bond with their Pokemon in the anime not to just battle and win like in the games
    This...
    Bonding with the Pokemon is fine, but tournaments are official battles meant to show the skill of the trainer



    Oh, I know! It must be because Charizard wasn't being disobedient in that fight.
    Wasn't Charizard battling for himself? Also, didn't Charizard burn Ash when he tried to give him a command?



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    Quote Originally Posted by lolipiece View Post
    And if someone gets sent to the hospital from a stray attack? Remember when Dragonite went crazy?




    Gee, I wonder why...

    Oh, I know! It must be because Charizard wasn't being disobedient in that fight.
    Gee, I wonder why people forget that Dragonite was obidient for most of the battle with Ash until his Krokorok evolved when he was about to lose and won the battle that way! Charzaird obeyed Ash for the same amount of time that Dragonite obeyed Iris that episode but it didnt cost Ash anything because why? Charzaird was obidient for no reason, there was no story behind it.. No focus was put on it before the OI episode. Dragonite got 2 episode dedicated to Iris talking to Dragonite along with Cynthia. What did Ash do before the Blaine battle? Nothing. He did nothing expect send Charzaird out to battle because Charzaird had a little rivalry with Magamar. And OMG, Dragonite would not hace hurt someone! Alder or Cynthia would have intervened way before that happend. Notice how two Champions let it be disobdient, so that Iris could see where she needs to improve. Who helped Charzaird and Ash grow? Oh right, no one. It took a stand-alone episode to make Charzaird get over his disobidience. So yes, some folks on Bulbagarden are still butthurt over Dragonite but ignore Charzaird's disobdience flaws =__=

    Quote Originally Posted by PAndrews View Post
    Why should they have complained? Charizard was obedient against Blaine.
    Notice how Charizard was disqualified for not listening in the Indigo League and automatically counted as a loss in the first Blaine fight for not listening.

    Iris should have been disqualified in the WTJC, she had no control over Dragonite, the first and second round were bad enough, but the 3rd had it rampaging and endangering everyone there, and Iris just stood there and watched. Bonding with the Pokemon is fine, but tournaments are official battles meant to show the skill of the trainer, a disobedient Pokemon has no place there, since it defeats the very purpose of the tournament. If the method Iris used to win the first 2 rounds is allowed, then anyone can win as long as someone lends/gives them a ridiculously powerful Pokemon. They don't even need to issue a command, just let it out of the ball and recall at the end.

    Iris didn't win a single round in that tournament, Dragonite did it all on his own, yet she takes the credit. That makes no sense and she should have been disqualified the moment it was clear she had no control in round 2.
    I dont even think I should reply to this.. At least Iris used Dragonite to bond with it. Which she did by the time the 3rd round started, then he was hurt when he trusted Iris a little to order him around so he went a bit beserk. He won the first two fights without Iris, yeah, boo-hoo.. But by the time the 3rd round rolled around he was obeying Iris's orders! Something no disobdient Pokemon was able to do in 2 episodes, which proves that battling and consulting a Pokemon will help to both bond with them and help them obey. And wants again.. I say.. Dragonite- it happend get over it. Disobidient Pokemon will battle in matches because the officials have no right to correct a Trainer on their battling style. And the reason Charzaird was disqualified in Kanto, was because it was Kanto! The show had just started..
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    I was about to ignore this, but ...

    Disobidient Pokemon will battle in matches because the officials have no right to correct a Trainer on their battling style.
    Yes they do. That's their jobs.

    We won't even have to speculate on it because it actually happened before. In " Crusin' for a Brusin' " we saw the Judges stop the match against May even though Bulbasaur could still fight. It's not only the official's job to keep score. They have to make sure that all the Trainers and Pokemon play fair so no one gets hurt.

    I suspect that the only reason that Addler and Cynthia let the fight continue was because it looked like Ash had the situation under control.

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    Quote Originally Posted by HatersGonnaHate View Post
    So what? Iris still would've won if D-nite listened to her. The power of that beast is there whether it listens or not. It would've been great if it listened to Iris, but the writers were establishing a story.
    Despite Georgia being a rather pathetic and sore loser, it is exactly as she stated, Dragonite won, Iris didn't, she just took the credit.
    Iris didn't do anything to earn that beasts power, Dragonite trained itself to that level and then fought while ignoring her alltogether.
    So in what way is that Iris win? All she did was throw a Pokeball at it, Dragonite did EVERYTHING else itself (including its own capture :P).

    If she bonds with it and gets it to listen to her properly, its a different story, but if it basically fights on its own, then its his wins and nobody else's

    Quote Originally Posted by ConUxie223 View Post
    Gee, I wonder why people forget that Dragonite was obidient for most of the battle with Ash until his Krokorok evolved when he was about to lose and won the battle that way! Charzaird obeyed Ash for the same amount of time that Dragonite obeyed Iris that episode but it didnt cost Ash anything because why? Charzaird was obidient for no reason, there was no story behind it.. No focus was put on it before the OI episode. Dragonite got 2 episode dedicated to Iris talking to Dragonite along with Cynthia. What did Ash do before the Blaine battle? Nothing. He did nothing expect send Charzaird out to battle because Charzaird had a little rivalry with Magamar. And OMG, Dragonite would not hace hurt someone! Alder or Cynthia would have intervened way before that happend. Notice how two Champions let it be disobdient, so that Iris could see where she needs to improve. Who helped Charzaird and Ash grow? Oh right, no one. It took a stand-alone episode to make Charzaird get over his disobidience. So yes, some folks on Bulbagarden are still butthurt over Dragonite but ignore Charzaird's disobdience flaws =__=
    Did you not watch any Kanto episodes or something?
    It was stated after evolving Charmeleon viewed Ash as weak and didn't want to listen anymore. He later only participated in battles if he found his opponent worthy. If not, he took a nap.
    He found Magmar a worthy opponent and decided to fight him, he found Charmander semi-worthy as a fellow firetype, but beyond that all he ever did was sleep unless a Pokemon annoyed him, such as Tauros (then went on a rampage). This was flat-out stated and shown.
    This also cost Ash the Indigo League and a loss vs Blaine the first time they fought.

    As for how they grew, Ash gained the remaining badges, entered a league and continued getting stronger, add that to spending a full night defrosting and caring for a severely injured Charizard and you see why Charizard stopped viewing Ash as weak and started to respect him again (which he did as a Charmander before). Beyond that the only major thing Charizard did was beat Blaine. Its only other event was the League, where it got disqualified.

    Now take Iris and Dragonite.
    Dragonite ignores her completely 2 battles in a row, then listens in battle 3 for no apparent reason outside of plot convenience (2 conversations mean little, especially when getting ignored), then goes on a rampage again after taking 1 hit from Krookodile. And yes, Dragonite could have seriously hurt someone, he was firing wildly into the area, including freezing the wall the spectators were sitting behind. Firing slightly higher meant frozen/crispy spectators.

    I dont even think I should reply to this.. At least Iris used Dragonite to bond with it. Which she did by the time the 3rd round started, then he was hurt when he trusted Iris a little to order him around so he went a bit beserk. He won the first two fights without Iris, yeah, boo-hoo.. But by the time the 3rd round rolled around he was obeying Iris's orders! Something no disobdient Pokemon was able to do in 2 episodes, which proves that battling and consulting a Pokemon will help to both bond with them and help them obey. And wants again.. I say.. Dragonite- it happend get over it. Disobidient Pokemon will battle in matches because the officials have no right to correct a Trainer on their battling style. And the reason Charzaird was disqualified in Kanto, was because it was Kanto! The show had just started..
    You're kidding right.
    This is an official tournament meant to show the skill of a trainer, not the Iris bonding special
    Iris had NO CONTROL over Dragonite in Rounds 1 & 2, she didn't do anything to earn or deserve those wins and the fact that it just listened out of nowhere in Round 3 made even less sense.
    In Round 3 not only did it start ignoring her AGAIN, it went on a rampage and endangered everyone there, because SHE COULDN"T CONTROL IT.
    THe match should have been stopped by the officials right then and there, it was clear beyond a doubt she had absolutely no control over Dragonite.

    Tournaments are meant to show the skill of a trainer, Iris failed to command her Dragonite, it went on a rampage and she shafted her remaining 3 Pokemon entirely for it. So in what way did she show ANY skill and deserve even 1 win, letalone 2?

    Bonding has nothing to with it, it was an OFFICIAL Tournament, it was meant for skilled trainers to show who is the most skilled and battle Adler. What Iris did would be no different from Cynthia giving her Garchomp to Ash, and then having Garchomp win all matches and facing Adler while Ash sits on the side playing with his dex. Would those have been wins for Ash? It would have been his Garchomp, he just wasn't controlling it. Thats EXACTLY what Iris did.

    And yes, the officials have every right to disqualify a trainer, thats why they are there in the first place, to judge the matches.

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