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Thread: Team Rocket Speculation V2

  1. #251
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    Quote Originally Posted by (P.O.K.E.M.O.N.) View Post
    The anime is known for being lazy, so why create new villians when you can recycle team rocket to the next region?
    And the reason they can't use the game villians is??
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hero of Ideals View Post
    Sonic has been around for 21 years and many of its characters have been around for almost 19 years and most of the mains are still in the main series, your point is invalided.
    Sonic died and he has a replacement a long time ago. (cries in the corner.)

    TRio will die eventually........Ah who am I kidding?

    Team Rocket will A) Be serious and try to capture Pikachu like old times B) Not Be serious and try to capture Pikachu like old times C) Continue with their BW antics in the next Generation D) All of the above E)Get replaced by different and original villians or F) Ash completely shuts them down in Kanto
    D) Continue with their BW antics in the next Generation
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  3. #253
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    Team Rocket went back to Kanto, because they have nothing else in Unova to accomplish, eh? Makes me wonder what they're planning next.
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    Quote Originally Posted by (P.O.K.E.M.O.N.) View Post
    The anime is known for being lazy, so why create new villians when you can recycle team rocket to the next region?
    But that's getting to be annyoing. If they are going to go back trying to catch Pikachu always blasting off, then I rather a new team and a new routine.

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    They should have the new Team interested in Ash's ability to attract rare Pokemon and try to kidnap him. Then Pikachu would have to save him.

    ... but that's veering into it's so crazy it just might work territory.

  6. #256
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    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    They should have the new Team interested in Ash's ability to attract rare Pokemon and try to kidnap him. Then Pikachu would have to save him.

    ... but that's veering into it's so crazy it just might work territory.
    Meh, they have kidnapped Ash before lol. The rat always saves his *** so it's not really that different.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    And the reason they can't use the game villians is??
    Because they cant, eg team magna and team aqua
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    Quote Originally Posted by (P.O.K.E.M.O.N.) View Post
    Because they cant, eg team magna and team aqua
    TR was still there, irrelevant. You can;t say it won't work until they actually do it once.
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    TR was still there, irrelevant. You can;t say it won't work until they actually do it once.
    It doesn't matter if team rocket was there or not, the anime cant make a decent villian, that's why the new team rocket failed.
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  10. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by (P.O.K.E.M.O.N.) View Post
    It doesn't matter if team rocket was there or not, the anime cant make a decent villian, that's why the new team rocket failed.
    Lol no they didn't, u think they failed cuz they didn't make you face palm every two seconds.
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  11. #261
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    Yeah, am I the only one who thinks "They'll be back" means a Housou special in our future?

    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    It's hard to believe that the characters in this episode are the same characters in this episode.

    This is what bothers me. For the greater part of their appearances Jessie, James, and Meowth do not even appear to be the same characters they have been for ten years.
    A hole in your point: the characters from that episode [EP048] are NOT the characters who have been around for ten years. Through AG and DP, the TRio were NOT the same TRio from the original series: they were now exaggerated cartoony caricatures who went through the same motions every episode and had certain traits and jokes of their's blown out of proportion to be the dominant parts of their characters (Jessie's a vain mega-beeyotch, James is a sensitive wuss, Meowth is a crazy Giovanni-fetishist). Back in the days of EP048, the TRio's characters were layered. They were NOT all about the "humor" or being "silly". For about a decade, they were two-dimensional tools. They are in BW too, but at least now they're tools that have an actual USE, rather than "comic relief" that isn't funny. Better to have "no personality" (as you claim) than a personality that grates on the viewer after overexposure.

    Quote Originally Posted by (P.O.K.E.M.O.N.) View Post
    the anime cant make a decent villian, that's why the new team rocket failed.
    Um, where were you last week when Giovanni was being friggin' awesome?

    And the new Team Rocket "failed" only for you people who can't accept that they could possibly become serious villains. To people who invite change, they were a success.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 9th October 2012 at 7:02 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by (P.O.K.E.M.O.N.) View Post
    It doesn't matter if team rocket was there or not, the anime cant make a decent villian, that's why the new team rocket failed.
    The anime did have a decent villain and that was Hunter J...

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  13. #263

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Yeah, am I the only one who thinks "They'll be back" means a Housou special in our future?
    Shuukan Pokemon Housoukyoku was canceled in 2004, so that'd be kind of hard. :P

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    Shuukan Pokemon Housoukyoku was canceled in 2004, so that'd be kind of hard. :P
    XD You know what I mean; the kind of thing like Dawn and Brock got back in 2011. I just call them "Housou specials" out of habit.

    Quote Originally Posted by Nacreous View Post
    The anime did have a decent villain and that was Hunter J...
    And even then she was terribly misused, disappearing for about 50 episodes after the Riolu 2-parter, not doing much when she returned, then dying in another villain's plot.

  15. #265

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    XD You know what I mean; the kind of thing like Dawn and Brock got back in 2011. I just call them "Housou specials" out of habit.
    I know, it's just a pet peeve.

    "Shuukan Pokemon Housoukyoku", which translates to "Weekly Pokemon Broadcasting Station" was the second in the line of "alternate weekly Pokemon shows", of which the currently-running Pokemon Smash is the fourth. It ran for 91 episodes between 2002-2004, 16 of which were all-new full-length anime episodes that would later become known as the "Pokemon Side Stories".

    "Housou" on its own means "to broadcast", so "housou specials" would mean... uh, "broadcast specials", which doesn't make a whole lot of sense (neither does referring to the entire show as "Housou" or "Pokemon housou"... though at least it's better than writing "HoSo" as if it was shortform for something) and I really really don't like it. Referring to unrelated TV specials by this name is even worse. Gah.

    As for the actual question, though (:P)... nah, I don't think they're just setting up a TV special. They're popular characters, and I'm sure they'll be back in the main show, as villains, going after Pikachu and be at least somewhat more like their older selves. There's been tons of hints recently in various non-main series material (radio show, 15th Anniversary Special, Live Caster segments) that the writers do realize the new direction they took these characters in didn't really catch on with fans, who liked them the way they were.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    They're popular characters, and I'm sure they'll be back in the main show, as villains, going after Pikachu and be at least somewhat more like their older selves. There's been tons of hints recently in various non-main series material (radio show, 15th Anniversary Special, Live Caster segments) that the writers do realize the new direction they took these characters in didn't really catch on with fans, who liked them the way they were .
    Which is why the radio show exists, to keep old TR around and pander to these fans while TR is written out of the main show. The writers clearly want them gone, so why should they have to bow to fans' wishes and keep them on the show as their old annoying selves when that's not what they want? The radio show would be redundant if that was the case.

    Also, "the new direction they took these characters in didn't really catch on with fans, who liked them the way they were"? Neither you nor the writers can speak for ALL fans, as there are plenty who did NOT like them the way they were and DID appreciate the new direction. And yes, this holds true for Japan as well, I've seen people there who like new TR better.

    Besides, why market the two-parter as "Team Rocket's final battle / final mission" if they were going to be back as regulars later? And popularity means nothing. Dawn and Piplup were really popular, and did they return as regulars? No, they returned in a one-shot special and then as guest stars for a few episodes. Paul, as much as I despise him, was popular. We haven't seen or heard anything of him after DP ended. So saying TR can't be written off just because they're popular is dead wrong. If the writers want them gone, they're gone.
    Last edited by AgentPierce; 9th October 2012 at 7:49 PM.

  17. #267
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    Through AG and DP, the TRio were NOT the same TRio from the original series: they were now exaggerated cartoony caricatures who went through the same motions every episode and had certain traits and jokes of their's blown out of proportion to be the dominant parts of their characters (Jessie's a vain mega-beeyotch, James is a sensitive wuss, Meowth is a crazy Giovanni-fetishist).
    To be completely honest ... that's the way I always remembered them.

    Even back in Kanto they showed personality traits that would be carried over in other seasons. Jessie was aggressive and selfish but did show signs that she cared about her teammates. James always a crybaby. The first time I remember him whining was in " Challenge of the Samurari "; the fourth episode of the series and their third appearance. Meowth started showing signs of being Giovanni obbessed in the first episode of the St. Anne arch. It reached critical mass in Johto, sure, but be always seemed to want to get back in Giovanni's good graces.

    Even in later seasons they showed that was not what they were all about. There were episodes that empathized their humanity over their villainy. To show us that these grunts were actually people who just so happened to have a job at an Evil Organization. When they showed signs of having these traits in Unova, mainly when they changed back their Uniforms, Meowth's Mission, and more recently when they decided to save Giovanni and ultimately the Unova Region it gave people hope that at least some members of the TRio could be redeemed.

    I don't want them to die. I don't even want them to leave. I just want the old TRio back, but if they're not going back to old form or getting a decent middle ground then I would accept this being the beginning of the end for them.

  18. #268
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    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    To be completely honest ... that's the way I always remembered them.
    Then your memory is faulty.

    Even back in Kanto they showed personality traits that would be carried over in other seasons. Jessie was aggressive and selfish but did show signs that she cared about her teammates. James always a crybaby. The first time I remember him whining was in " Challenge of the Samurari "; the fourth episode of the series and their third appearance. Meowth started showing signs of being Giovanni obsessed in the first episode of the St. Anne arc.
    Key word there: personality traits. In AG and DP, these traits stopped being traits and became their whole personalities. The writers wanted their job to be easy, so they established a pattern and progressively flattened each character's personalities so that they'd be simple to write. No longer were the TRio unpredictable or have any real depth to them: they did the same things over and over again, reacted the same way to every situation, and beat us over the head with the same jokes and same style of failure. That's the difference here.

    There were episodes that empathized their humanity over their villainy.
    First off, what villainy? Secondly, their "humanity", at least in DP, was about as shallow and cheaply written as their humor. The Dustox release episode makes me gag everytime.

    To show us that these grunts were actually people who just so happened to have a job at an Evil Organization.
    And that's all well and good, but that doesn't change the fact that they still have a job at an Evil Organizaiton. If they're not going to actually do anything valuable in that regard, just joke around all the time and fail at everything in regions their boss sends them to just to get them out of his hair, then what's the point in them being part of Team Rocket at all?

    I don't even want them to leave.
    Welcome to Misty/May/Max/Dawn/Brock fans' world, then.

  19. #269

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    Team Rocket were the exact same through EP002 -> DP191. BW001 started their change.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Haunter227 View Post
    Team Rocket were the exact same through EP002 -> DP191. BW001 started their change.
    Not quite, they were the same personality wise but those traits became a lot more focused on in ag onwards. It became all they were.

    For me its when I went from disliking them to hating them

  21. #271

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    Quote Originally Posted by AgentPierce View Post
    Which is why the radio show exists, to keep old TR around and pander to these fans while TR is written out of the main show. The writers clearly want them gone, so why should they have to bow to fans' wishes and keep them on the show as their old annoying selves when that's not what they want? The radio show would be redundant if that was the case.
    I don't really think you're looking at the situation clearly. While there might (and probably is) be people on the writing staff who genuinely wanted the characters to change the way they did in BW, and had some responsibility in writing the characters according to their own wishes, the people ultimately in charge wants the show to be successful and popular among its viewers. Regardless of any personal opinions on any writers' parts, the extreme change the Rocket trio went through when BW debuted was done because it was believed that people would respond positively to this shaking-up of the formula, and like this new direction the characters were taken in. Since the reactions didn't end up being all that positive after all, but the series had already been plotted out to the point where they couldn't just drastically alter their personalities, they chose to please the fans at least a bit by giving the Rockets these little non-series things where they had their old personalities again. That's why I believe they will, even if gradually, revert back to the way they used to be - the writers realized the "serious mode Rocket trio" was a failed experiment.

    And yes, of course some people liked the change. Everything just points towards the fact that a sizable majority preferred their old selves and wanted them back. Dropping an unpopular change of pace in a show's direction isn't pandering, it's just realizing that not every change is received well. For a show to be popular, it needs to be written in ways the audience responds positively to.

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    The seiyuu don't like serious Team Rocket. And possibly the writers aren't anymore. The problem is the TRio isn't create to be serious in the first place. But in BW1 they revamped completely their personality. The problem is that the writers (forced by the games) need to differenciate BW as much as possible and they hope that the series will be to new members. But many of the early-BW viewers are the same than late-DP series viewers. I'm going to remember that Team Rocket as a organization needs to be serious, but not the TRio like in BW.

    Basically if you think about that if a character will return to the show is the original TRio (the funny version). I don't exist that any other past character will return at the show (Unless Ash is illuminated by some beautiful "light" with bubbles).

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    I'm going to remember that Team Rocket as a organization needs to be serious, but not the TRio like in BW.
    Says a fan of the previous TRio. You may not like the serious TRio but that doesn't mean other people can't. For me personally, TR worked on so many levels during BW.

  24. #274

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    Quote Originally Posted by fer92 View Post
    The seiyuu don't like serious Team Rocket. And possibly the writers aren't anymore.
    The VAs not liking their roles is highly exaggerated and based on silly rumors and mistranslated statements. They're professional actors (and polite Japanese ones, at that), they aren't going to publically speak negatively about the writing and direction of their most popular roles. As for the writers, as already mentioned, direction decisions for highly commercial TV series are based around what will make the audience respond positively, thus making them the most money (and in toyetic series like this, they obviously also get instructions on what aspects to advertise and when).
    Personal feelings of the people working on the show is nowhere near as relevant as how the audience liked the direction in this situation.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dephender View Post
    I don't really think you're looking at the situation clearly. While there might (and probably is) be people on the writing staff who genuinely wanted the characters to change the way they did in BW, and had some responsibility in writing the characters according to their own wishes, the people ultimately in charge wants the show to be successful and popular among its viewers. Regardless of any personal opinions on any writers' parts, the extreme change the Rocket trio went through when BW debuted was done because it was believed that people would respond positively to this shaking-up of the formula, and like this new direction the characters were taken in. Since the reactions didn't end up being all that positive after all, but the series had already been plotted out to the point where they couldn't just drastically alter their personalities, they chose to please the fans at least a bit by giving the Rockets these little non-series things where they had their old personalities again. That's why I believe they will, even if gradually, revert back to the way they used to be - the writers realized the "serious mode Rocket trio" was a failed experiment.

    And yes, of course some people liked the change. Everything just points towards the fact that a sizable majority preferred their old selves and wanted them back. Dropping an unpopular change of pace in a show's direction isn't pandering, it's just realizing that not every change is received well. For a show to be popular, it needs to be written in ways the audience responds positively to.
    Are you joking, Adamant? I don't think kids who are the target audience who just started watching give a damn either way.

    This argument sounds awfully familiar to the people who claimed why Brock came back over Tracey, even though Brock was always planned to return. Hell it was an argument Misty fans used in AG because they saw her getting specials and assumed the writers were keeping her character alive for when Hoenn ended.

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