Rate My Team [B/W competitive] - Lucario is BOSS

[Soul_Fly]

Well Advice has started pouring in and I have Started making changes. They will be listed and the last replaced move will be crossed out.



Well, it's been a while since I retired from Pokemon. Was too busy with my studies, but now I have come back (and BOY has it been long), I have decided to see how I fare in the new world of the B/W metagame.

Basically, let me be upfront. I have almost no ****ing idea about most of the new Pokemon, apart from the 10-15 commonly used ones. I remember, on my first day furiously googling for a way to counter something called a 'Genesect' while mid game (I was successful btw; albeit just narrowly). It was fun man

And after a two days of thorough testing I have landed with this team.
You may notice it doesn't have any fifth-gen pokes, and that's intentional. I am a fourth gen guy in a wrong era. I haven't fully understood the latest gen , so I'd prefer not to play around with the unfamiliar (not to mention most of them are pretty ugly, IMHO).

Most of the sets here are pretty standard with a few nasty surprises thrown in. Nothing revolutionary but what I aimed for was good Synergy and type Coverage which I believe I have achieved.

Rate it. And let me know if there are any better 5th gen alternatives for any of these guys here. I am learning.

THE TEAM


'T-101' - Heatran @Air Balloon

Considering Change to Specially Defensive set to Provide Better Back Up for Latios. Please Advise.
Ability: Flash Fire | Nature: Calm (+SpA/-Atk)
EV Spread: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


-Fire Blast
-Earth Power
-Hidden Power [Ice]
-Stealth Rock


There you have it. A Classic Offensive Heatran. The first thing I did was give up my notion of a 'lead' as the Wifi preview clause has made this type of Pokemon almost, obsolete. So Here is a primed one usually for all out devastation with a stealth rock thrown in, to be used at convenience. The extra damage never hurts.
It's also my switch-in of choice in early and mid game due to the amazing type combination which I believe is still pretty awesome. Air Balloon is a surprise for anyone who is not ready and deals with that annoying earthquake to be replied by a swift HP Ice and taking out a threat permanently thus destroying their team's primary Heatran counter, making it all the more dangerous. if they realize the trick and switch I can usually predict-kill (thanks team preview!) or maim the Pokemon which follows to uselessness.
HP Ice also acts as an excellent Gliscor Counter (which seem to have become rather common) when my other Special Sweeper is down.
Since I gave up trying to make it a dedicated 'lead' I replaced Taunt which I used earlier, with Earth Power for greater type coverage and for any opposing Heatran.




'Bad Patrick' - Starmie @Life Orb
Ability: Natural Cure | Nature: Timid (+Spe/-Atk)
EV Spread: 252 SpA / 4 SpD / 252 Spe


-Surf/ Hydro Pump
-Ice Beam
-Thunderbolt
-Rapid Spin / Recovery

Rapid Spin Finalized as 2 out of 3 extremely fragile to entry hazards


A personal favorite of mine since the ADV generation, I am surprised to see it's near extinction from the OU metagame, given that it's technically the best Bolt-Beamer out there, with an excellent STAB of it's own. Hydro Pump used to be a Staple, but like with Fire Blast Heatran above, a sudden rash of Hax forced me to switch to the more reliable Surf. . Even though the difference in power is quite noticeable, and in 2-3 instances was a game breaker, I prefer complete accuracy over extra power.
Bolt-Beam there for the usual Sweep job and does excellently somehow against the current metagame and has completely destroyed Poison Heal Substitute Gliscors with it's waaaaay faster pace and Life Orb boosted Ice Beam.

****The Last Slot was a real Dilemma. Recovery was a tempting option given the Life Orb Damage it took each turn, but I also had to be ready for the occasional surprise spikes/StealthRock set, which though uncommon, since the death of traditional leads, are still there to give an ugly shock to unsuspecting people. But after running a recovery set for a few battles I saw that Starmie was a fragile thing anyways and would be at the best 2HKO'ed by the average battler, if I didn't switch, which left me little space to use recovery for any real purpose as it would be dealt with 50%+ damage anyways. So Rapid Spinner it was.





'Neo' - Scizor @Choice Band
Ability: Technician | Nature: Adamant (+Atk/-SpA)
EV Spread: 252 Atk / 8 Spe / 248 HP
Shifted 8 EV from SpD to Spe to counter the opposing Bullet Punch Scizor in a Deathmatch. Small but significant perk. Thanks to thedarklord2155.


-Bullet Punch
-U-Turn
-Superpower
-Pursuit / Quick Attack?


Well, it's a neat Ditto of the 4th gen CB-Scizor that dominated OU for well over a year. No Setup, no Hassle, Uber offence. Saw no reason to Change. Bullet Punch still mauls anything which receives neutral/super effective damage from it and has been a BOON against the rare Dragons and a far more common annoyance. Some dude called 'Terrakion'. Crazy typing. Scizor is the only thing capable of standing up to it.
Superpower is still a great Chansey/Blissey killer (though Eviolite-Chansey needs some helping at times) and is also an effective Tyranitar counter.
U-Turn provides a great scout opportunity and also escape checkmate situations and cases of the common arena trapper.
The last slot is usually (now always) for pursuit to give a parting gift to those lovely pink egg-shaped walls and the fleeing Tyranitar or anything which wishes to escape it's horror. Can be a potent tool with correct prediction. which is even more useful with Wifi preview. Was thinking of running a second priority with Quick Attack, which doubles in strength with it's technician ability, for those tight situations....(sic)







'Mother' - Blissey @Leftovers
Ability: Natural Cure | Nature: Calm (+SpD/-Atk)
EV Spread: 252 Def / 4 hp/ 252 SpDef


-Heal Bell / Aromatherapy
-Wish / Softboiled
-Flamethrower/ Seismic Toss?
-Toxic


No lying. I started off with the Eviolite Chansey. And it was great! Over the top Defences, outclassing Blissey and a first class stall machine. But I sorely missed a few factors which made Blissey the great Wall it was. First off and immediate - Leftovers recovery. Inability of Chansey to heal off any residual damage, especially against sandstorm teams meant that it could be opened up for an Easy OHKO by a Scizor or stalled away to hell by a Ferrothorn abusing leach seed and a status. And also its horrible attack meant that it was useless for any pressuring apart from the usual Seismic toss. Also, for the very same reason, Taunt ruined her of any usability.

Hence, back to Blissey. She's more versatile than her little sister can ever be IMHO.

Didn't realize the wish mechanics had changed this generation. Thanks for pointing that out folks!

Way superior than my earlier set. Thanks again to The Skydryver for reminding me of Heal Bell, seeing as I don't run any Sound Proof Pokemon and allows me to use Wish in conjunction of a status healer.

Overall the solid classic special wall which was feared since the ADV generation.






'Eon' - Latios @Life Orb Expert Belt
Ability: Levitate | Nature: Timid (+SpD/-Atk)
EV Spread: 242 SpA / 18 HP/ 252 Spe


-Dragon Pulse
-Calm Mind / Surf
-Hidden Power Fire
-Psyshock / Roost


This thing is beautiful. And Devastating.
More so now

Switched to Calm Mind set after advice and testing thanks to The Skydryver for the idea and jeffdavid102 for the modified set.
Blazes through Everything. Period.

Psyshock pulverizes Eviolite Chanseys, Blisseys and any other Special tank which would otherwise need a 3HKO. Total Gamewinner in 50% of my match ups till now.
I contemplated keeping Roost as I had stopped running a Wish support Blissey but the Prevalence of late game Special Sponges (especially a certain guy called 'Virizion') and of course Eviolite Chanseys/Stall Blisseys lategame. Shifted to a Wish Blissey set now. So not such a big issue anymore





'Real Steel' - Lucario @Life Orb
Ability: Justified | Nature: Adamant (+Atk/-SpA)
EV Spread: 252 Atk / 4 HP/ 252 Spe


-Swords Dance
-Close Combat
-Ice Punch / Bullet Punch
-Extremespeed


This is it.
The most awesome 4th gen Pokemon. And my personal Favorite.
GameFreak NAILED it with this one. Badass design, Superior Type Combination and an Incredible Movepool. It's truly awesomeness at it's height.

It was quite sad for me to see that it had declined into almost non-use with the prevalence , of other steel types, and a changing metagame. I swore that he would be the hero of the team. And you know what? He is.

This is the only tricky guy in my team. He needs setting up if he is to do a reliable sweep, so I usually try to time in a perfect switch, using Starmie and Latios to lure in proper bait. this has gotten harder since I stopped running Wish Blissey, then doing it was a charm and it also negated any entry hazards which Starmie may not have dealt with. Still it's doable. Nonetheless once it gets in and fires off a single or a double SD - boost, it can bring entire teams to their knees.

Bullet Punch is the Priority Extremespeed is there as a secondary main priority and for type coverage and also now that it has +2 priority, it can even check the nefarious Mach Punch Infernape which countered it effectively in the DPP metagame. Bullet Punch usually serves no Purpose, and can be OHKOed by Extremespeed after SD boost anyways. Ice Punch has been far more useful in dealing with the dragons
A SD boosted Ice Punch after entry Hazard (or +2/+3 SD boost) has been successful in thwarting the Calm Mind Latios while she sets up..... mid/low HP can be usually revenge killed with Extremespeed.
Close Combat is the main STAB here and usually kills anything in it's path, so setting up is more important because if it doesn't OHKO it leaves itself vulnerable to revenge kills due to dropping HP and Defence.

**Only issue which remains is Gengar which earlier used to be taken down by Bullet Punch. Now, Extremespeed and Close Combat Being Useless against him. In late game all I can do is click on Ice punch and pray his Focus Blast misses, if I havent got all 3 SD boosts on time.

-

So that's that as far as the team goes.

ISSUES

Calm Mind Latios
Toxistall it was. and ice Punch counters it quick now. Thanks folks!

Terrakion
Still causes buttpains at times but I can now revenge kill it 50% of the times as I'm getting better with my switch in timings.

Sunny Day Teams/Drought Ninetails
Use Starmie as lead whenever I see Ninetails along with fire/ground pokemon. OHKOs it with Surf. Has worked pretty well so far. Heatran takes care of anything that is not Dugtrio.


EDIT:
after more testing another issue arises.

Jellicent
Another Sponge. A Big BAD sponge. Apart from pursuit on Scizor, nothing even comes close to damaging it.
Still Unresolved

Gengar
Mentioned Above alon with Lucario.
Outspeeds Everything in my team and causes a lot of Havok until I revenge kill it with Scizor. Rapes Blissey with those Damn Focus Blasts. Check/Counter strategies will help. Thank you!


POKEMON BEING CONSIDERED FOR REPLACEMENTS

Breloom - As Replacement for CB-Scizor given the Better type coverage.

Nidoqueen - As a Special Sweeper and an Additional Spikes Setup

Skarmory - To set up classic SkarmBliss defense as well as provide SpikeStall.

--------------
special thanks toIlan for Sun team strategy

[SkyDriver]

Calm Mind Latios
This thing is Devastating. It sponges up everything I throw at it while Calm Minding and then Rips through my team like a hot knife in Butter. I have felt absolutely powerless against it and have only managed to 2HKO it once with a Fully Boosted Lucario.
Alternate Team members or a strategy with the existing team will be appreciated.
Blissey should be able to toxistall it, if it lacks psyshock. Scarf Genesect can 2HKO it with U-Turn.

Terrakion
Another Pain in the @**. Can't seem to be able to reliably switch into it at all. OHKOs everyone in my team. If i'm lucky with the switch.. a 2HKO. Only Scizor can switch in at a pokemon faint and deal with him using Bullet Punch/Superpower. And if Scizor's out of action, I might as well forfeit because unless my opponent is extremely dull he can OHKO my entire team.
Add a Ghost type, or Slowbro, they both hinder terrakion. The latter can also burn it with Scalds.

Sunny Day Teams/Drought Ninetails
I may not like it but 3 out of 6 Pokemon in this team are steel types (albeit one is immune to fire) and a full accuracy fire blast absolutely wreaks my team as I don't have a weather inducer of my own. Scizor is fried fillet and it's a joke even to try and set up Lucario, in most cases it wouldn't last beyond 2 moves. I was contemplating keeping a weather move just in case for this and/or switching around a pokemon. Advice?
Fire Blast doesn't get accuracy boosted by sun, only power. A Dragon like Latios resists the comonly used fire and grass type moves, while setting up Calm Minds
(Maybe instead of Surf, which is only usefull against Heatran that pack roar)

Full rate coming soon, when I got more time ^-^

[Soul_Fly]

[/B]

Fire Blast doesn't get accuracy boosted by sun, only power

Oh oops sorry, I knew. Just an error in all that typing.
Thanks for pointing out anyways.

And I shall wait for your full rate. Thanks so Much!

[Ilan]

Ice punch>bullet punch on lucario for dragonite and gliscor bullet punch is weaker than extreame speed most of the time except hitting terrakion I can't think of anything it can hit also you already have bullet punch on scizor anyway.

Terakion gives you trouble? it is weird since you have 1 counter and 1 check.. if you want you can switch blissey to amoongus o take on terrakion.
Also I can't see why sun gives you trouble you have heatran he is the ultimate sun counter.

[That Crazy Russian™]

i strongly recommend shed shell on heatran, as air balloon sucks now-a-days. shed shell allows it to escape from dugtrio(a sun favorite) and seeing as sun gives you massive trouble, well, you'll be good now.

amoongus>blissey, definitely. terrakion is much better kept in check now. seeing as you need it to check fighting types, a physically defensive spread would be best. try smogon.

give latios trick and choice specs, as its more a hit and run poke, and can easily cripple/devastate cmlatias and blissey and switch-ins.

as stated, ice punch on lucario.

[Soul_Fly]

Ice punch>bullet punch on lucario for dragonite and gliscor bullet punch is weaker than extreame speed most of the time except hitting terrakion I can't think of anything it can hit also you already have bullet punch on scizor anyway.

Terakion gives you trouble? it is weird since you have 1 counter and 1 check.. if you want you can switch blissey to amoongus o take on terrakion.
Also I can't see why sun gives you trouble you have heatran he is the ultimate sun counter.

The issue is half of any sun team packs a focus punch and/or earthquake. and almost all outspeed hearan, as they tend to be fast and offensive. Otherwise it's a fine counter.

[Soul_Fly]

i strongly recommend shed shell on heatran, as air balloon sucks now-a-days. shed shell allows it to escape from dugtrio(a sun favorite) and seeing as sun gives you massive trouble, well, you'll be good now.

give latios trick and choice specs, as its more a hit and run poke, and can easily cripple/devastate cmlatias and blissey and switch-ins.

as stated, ice punch on lucario.

I'll try that, but I was also thing of making it as CM latios. Any advice on that? And already one of my pokemon is choiced (albeit a different strategy)... any help on that?

Oh and thanks. I'll be trying out Ice Punch Lucario.

[That Crazy Russian™]

im assuming you mean calm mind latios. ive never seen it used, when its choiced set is so much better. you'll be putting major holes anyway in things with draco meteor. just make sure to take out scizor, because otherwise, it'll pursuit it and sh*t on it.

i usually put 2-3 choiced pokemon in a team at a time. its a good thing. both are revenge killers/wallbreakers.

also, switch scizor's 8 spD into speed.

[jeffdavid102]

Actually CM Latios is really good. If it gets a single boost, that's the equivalent of a Soul Dew, which was banned for being overpowered. This is a great moveset for it, resisted only by Heatran, and Psyshock murders Chansey and Blissey.

Latios @Leftovers/Life Orb
Trait:Levitate
Nature: Timid ( +spd, -atk )
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/ 252 Speed (I don't feel like checking magic HP numbers, but if you want to change that, you can give it up to 16 HP EVs and take away from SpAtk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]

As for Lucario, I have always wanted to try that set you're running. Extremespeed makes speed a non-issue, except for Rocks and Steel types. However, they are slow and easily destroyed by Close Combat after a SD boost(unless they are heavily invested in Defense) Adamant can be ran because of the priority and Close Combat is for slow Pokemon. I'm not saying there aren't checks. In fact Gliscor destroys the set you're running unless you add Ice Punch, which still might not OHKO, leaving you open for a revenge kill EQ.

For Scizor, you should know about a better Pokemon for Terrakion. Breloom. This gen, it got Technician from the Dream World. Its Attack stat is equal to that of Scizor and it gets STAB Priority in Mach Punch. Bullet Seed is good too. It also resists Rock, something Scizor would love to have. Breloom can basically run all of Scizor's sets except maybe Specially Defensive set. Swords Dance, Choice Band, and less predictable due to another good ability in Poison Heal, though it is now used less.

If you really need a Terrakion counter, they are all ironically in lower tiers. Golurk is by far the best, but you did say you are not using GenV Pokemon. Nidoqueen can too, as it resists both of it's STABs and has a great defensive stat. In fact the list of Pokemon that resist Terrakion's STAB moves are: Golurk, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Toxicroak, Gallade, Medicham, Claydol. That's it, unless you count some of their pre-evos. Toxicroak, Nidoking, Gallade, and Medicham have bad defensive stats and should not be considered, leaving Golurk, Nidoqueen, and Claydol as good counters. I personally prefer Bold Nidoqueen with maximum investment in HP and Defense. It has some offensive presence due to its ability: Sheer Force. Mine only took TWENTY PERCENT damage from a Terrakion's Close Combat. It did use Earthquake after, which did about 60%, but Nidoqueen OHKOed with Earth Power. I don't know if that person was running Choice Band, Choice Scarf, or what, but those numbers stand. Taking Black Sludge recovery into account, Nidoqueen was at about 50% health after switching into and KOing a Terrakion.

Your choice on Starmie. Personally, I prefer Surf and Rapid Spin, but what you said is OK too.

Pursuit on Scizor.

If CM Latios is a problem, I would be sure to keep Rapid Spin on Starmie. Adding Skarm would give you a SkarmBliss core as well as a form of phazing. Skarmory can come in, survive a HP Fire due to Sturdy and phaze with Whirlwind. Heatran is a great check too, especially if you switch in before too many CMs. I would run the Specially Defensive set. It fits better with your team. It can take Latios' special attacks, resists Psyshock, can burn with Lava Plume, still set up Rocks, and even phase Latios. Surf is not too bad if rain is not up.

[Soul_Fly]

Actually CM Latios is really good. If it gets a single boost, that's the equivalent of a Soul Dew, which was banned for being overpowered. This is a great moveset for it, resisted only by Heatran, and Psyshock murders Chansey and Blissey.

Latios @Leftovers/Life Orb
Trait:Levitate
Nature: Timid ( +spd, -atk )
EVs: 4 HP/252 SpAtk/ 252 Speed (I don't feel like checking magic HP numbers, but if you want to change that, you can give it up to 16 HP EVs and take away from SpAtk)
- Calm Mind
- Psyshock
- Dragon Pulse
- Hidden Power [Fire]

I'm running another set on Latios now, Draco Meteor w/ life orb but I just read your set and I've realized it's better. Thanks for clearing up the Magic HP numbers, Squeezing out 1 more attack is gold, lack of time on the field was making it a trouble to land more than 3-4 hits .

Thanks will modify.

As for Lucario, I have always wanted to try that set you're running. Extremespeed makes speed a non-issue, except for Rocks and Steel types. However, they are slow and easily destroyed by Close Combat after a SD boost(unless they are heavily invested in Defense) Adamant can be ran because of the priority and Close Combat is for slow Pokemon. I'm not saying there aren't checks. In fact Gliscor destroys the set you're running unless you add Ice Punch, which still might not OHKO, leaving you open for a revenge kill EQ.

yeah, I've replaced it with Ice punch, works better. Way better for that occasional DD/outrage Dragonite , which would otherwise force me to switch out and I would end up losing all my boosts.... thanks for that!

And yeah, Gliscor is destroyed by Ice punch, after SR damage and/or even a single SD boost.

For Scizor, you should know about a better Pokemon for Terrakion. Breloom. This gen, it got Technician from the Dream World. Its Attack stat is equal to that of Scizor and it gets STAB Priority in Mach Punch. Bullet Seed is good too. It also resists Rock, something Scizor would love to have. Breloom can basically run all of Scizor's sets except maybe Specially Defensive set. Swords Dance, Choice Band, and less predictable due to another good ability in Poison Heal, though it is now used less.

Hmm. But Scizor's so COOOOL. :P
Still Anyways. i'll try running your Breloom set. It's just that Flying's harder to avoid for me that the occasional Heatran. I'll see how it works out.

If you really need a Terrakion counter, they are all ironically in lower tiers. Golurk is by far the best, but you did say you are not using GenV Pokemon. Nidoqueen can too, as it resists both of it's STABs and has a great defensive stat. In fact the list of Pokemon that resist Terrakion's STAB moves are: Golurk, Nidoqueen, Nidoking, Toxicroak, Gallade, Medicham, Claydol. That's it, unless you count some of their pre-evos. Toxicroak, Nidoking, Gallade, and Medicham have bad defensive stats and should not be considered, leaving Golurk, Nidoqueen, and Claydol as good counters. I personally prefer Bold Nidoqueen with maximum investment in HP and Defense. It has some offensive presence due to its ability: Sheer Force. Mine only took TWENTY PERCENT damage from a Terrakion's Close Combat. It did use Earthquake after, which did about 60%, but Nidoqueen OHKOed with Earth Power. I don't know if that person was running Choice Band, Choice Scarf, or what, but those numbers stand. Taking Black Sludge recovery into account, Nidoqueen was at about 50% health after switching into and KOing a Terrakion.

Nidoqueen sounds nice. Saw your team. You've put in a lot of hard work there. I'll see, I am getting better with my timings and I manage to revenge kill it with my Scizor more now. I'd rather not waste a precious slot on the team just for one pokemon.

Your choice on Starmie. Personally, I prefer Surf and Rapid Spin, but what you said is OK too.

yes I'm also running a rapidspin set now. but endurance is an issue. Get's KO'ed easily on switch ins even with a neutral STAB hit.
Should I start running a wish set?

If CM Latios is a problem, I would be sure to keep Rapid Spin on Starmie. Adding Skarm would give you a SkarmBliss core as well as a form of phazing. Skarmory can come in, survive a HP Fire due to Sturdy and phaze with Whirlwind. Heatran is a great check too, especially if you switch in before too many CMs. I would run the Specially Defensive set. It fits better with your team. It can take Latios' special attacks, resists Psyshock, can burn with Lava Plume, still set up Rocks, and even phase Latios. Surf is not too bad if rain is not up.

Uhm.. it was CM Latias, I usually toxistall it and try to get starmie/heatran in to kill it with ice. Also, Ice punch on Lucario boosted with SD has made it easier. Provided I manage to set it up.....
Chucked Surf from Latios.....

great! looking into Specially defensive Heatran, though it might lose some of it's teeth.

[SkyDriver]

1st of all, you have 3 fighting weak pokes, and 2 resisting it. Those too, however, ae easily KOéd by a Payback, or Latios can be KO'd by Ice Punch, while Starmie can't last too long, without Recover. Rapid Spin is the better option, though.

On Heatran, Fire Blast will be your best shot at OHKOíng stuff neutral to fire, as it is is way more powerful than the more accurate Flamethrower. Nice set beside that.

Leftovers for Starmie, to switch in more frequently, without wearing your own spinner down.

Aromatherapy/Heal Bell on Blissey. Don't use both Wish and Softboiled. Wish can be used > Softboiled is you wish to heal your teammates as well.

Either go with CM Latios, or Specs/Scarf, but not a way inbetween. It just lacks power, and is thus easily walled, and then Latios get KO'd. Draco Meteor is simply its best move, coming off of a 130 base SpA, KO'es all but strong special sponges and Steel types. HP [Fire] and Surf give it perfect coverage and PsyShock is for them sponges. I recommend the Specs, as Timid Specs Latios' PsyShock 2HKO's 252/0 Def Jellicent. Up to 80 Def investment on Jellicent won't matter too much, so that fixes your Jelli problems.

Lucario might ike a Lum berry and Crunch, as second way of dealing with Jelli. Ice Punch is better for sweeping, as it OHKO's flying Dragons.

After writing this, I noticed a Ground weakness, when Heatran's balloon is gone. Latios can switch in, but when predicted, an Ice move certainly will hurt. I recommend adding a Bronzong, weak to only Fire, and eliminating the Ground weakness. HP [Ice] on it, will 2/3HKO Gliscor, Landorus and Dragon/Flying types.

Hope this helped ^-^

EDIT: I was typing this while you were replying too, so I didn't respond to the new changes.

[Soul_Fly]

Thanks for that. After Air balloon the earth sure is a big issue.

[Thunder_Chad]

hi cool team

i think you should use subsitute on latios to make it a deadly sweeper

also think about nasty plot lucario its beast