BW2 LC RMT: The Little Troll That Could (Peaked #1 on PO) (Peaked #1 PS)
The Little Troll That Could
Hello Smogon, and welcome to my 2nd ever RMT. The first time I made a Little Cup team, it was back in the Gligar era(yea, it was that long). However, after talking to my friend KingTorterraXIV on IRC, we came up with a team that revolved around a underrated LC Pokemom, Houdour. Now, after playing for about a week, I got to #1 on BOTH major simulators. Pretty good from your friendly neighborhood troll huh. Learning as I went along, this team has served me wonders on the ladder, and a couple people are using this in the LC Open(won't be saying WHO tho ). Not bad for a guy who learned as he went along Anywho, enjoy the obligatory poster below as well as the Team Building Process.
Spoiler:- TBP and Team Ranking:
Like I said in the Overview, I wanted to build this team around Houndour. So, I had to figure out what set I wanted to run with. I was thinking a Mixed Nasty Plot set with Dark Pulse / Flamethrower / Sucker Punch / Nasty Plot. However, I wanted to have the most effective set as possible. So, I want the Mixed Attacking set, and it works wonders. With Flash Fire, it acts as a Fire Immune that can threaten teams with its STABs. Sucker Punch is cool as well, picking off Missy, Abra, and other Pokemon that are troublesome. Plus, its a more badass version of Growlithe, that's cool in itself.
From there, I decided that I need something to deal with Stealth Rock as well as a way to deal with Ground and Rock type Pokemon. Thus, Staryu was picked, and its been a great choice. Its powerful STAB Hydro Pump has enough power to prevent stuff from switching in, other than Lileep and Frillish. Coverage in T-Bolt is also cool, keeping other Stayu and Frillish at bay. Add this w/ Evolite and Recover, and Staryu can be annoying to take down.
Now, I needed something for Water-type Pokemon, and at this point it looked obvious that a FWG core would most likely work out best for this team. At the time, I was concerned about the Fighting-type weakness, so I tried Foongus at first, but it had problems. First off, It wasn't nearly as bulky as I liked it to be. It also left me more open to Murkrow and Abra. Thus, I asked KT for help, and he suggested Lileep, and that was such a great decision. Even though it adds to the Fighting-type weakness, not only does it help with Murkrow and Abra, it also absorbs and powers up from Water-type attacks, which is awesome. It also has Recover, which means I don't have to switch out every time I need my Grass-type to heal.
Well, at this point I realized two problems my team had. One was that I had 2 pokemon weak to Fighting-type Pokemon without a resist. I was also lacking Stealth Rock, which is HUGE in any meta other than VGC. So, I was looking, and then I realized there was a Pokemon that fit both bills, Golett. Now, it may be walled by Missy, but this was a great decision. Golett gives me a bulky Fighting-type resist that can not only set up rocks, but it can also use its STAB EQs to screw with some ****. Plus, Ice and Drain Punch for coverage is great, allowing me to hit an unsuspecting Krow on the switch or Scarggy or w/e. Plus, I can free up a spot on Lileep for Toxic, since it screws up the bulky Pokemon Lileep has to face, such as Missy and Krow. All in all, underrated, not the best mon, but underrated.
Well, since I added a Fight immune, I now needed a Fighting type of my own, since this is how Pokemon works. As such, I picked something that can deal with Scarggy, varients of Snover, and is a solid Pokemon in general, Mienfoo. This thing is so staple, but so good, its unbelievable. A simple defensive set does the job it needs to, Fake Out to gain priority, or stall out something, Knocks Off items, U-turns to gain momentum as well as heal, not much to say about Mienfoo. Its great at its job, what else is there to say.
At this point, I had the basic staple of my team set. Now I needed a glue to tie it all in. A revenge killer usually make great glues, and Murkrow is a great example of this. It outpaces +1 Sccarggy, +1 Snover, +2 Turtle and other Scarfers/Boosters, and kills them all. Brave Bird + STAB is ridiculous, and the coverage it gets is awesome too. It even has Sucker Punch so I can get rid of Pokemon such as Ice Shard Snover, as well as Drilbur or Sandscrew in the sand if need be. Makes a great staple for any team, and I love my Krow.
AND NOW, THE TEAM....
w/ 1st Gen Sprites FTW!
Trait: Early Bird
EVs: 36 Atk / 200 SAtk / 240 Spd
IVs: 3 HP
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
Why this pokemon?
This set made me love Houndour so much, its now one of my favorite Pokemon and something I'll use in my next Plat playthrough. Anywho, Houndour's great Drak/Fire STAB combination hits alot of LC hard, which isn't amazing in the fast pace metagame. 17 Speed and Special Attack isn't that bad, and when you remember that it also has Sucker Punch to get rid of faster shizz, Houndour is solid. Protect is used for several reasons. One, it saves it from Fake Out, which can be crucial if Mienfoo is my opponent's only way of stopping Houndour. It also allows me to scout what my opponent is doing, which means I can Sucker Punch predicting an attack. Fire Blast and Dark Pulse are STABs, and they destroy everything. Starmie takes 45% from Fire Blast, a 2HKO combined with Rocks and Sucker Punch. The HP IVs means that it has 19 HP, aka 1 HP recoil from LO.
- Flash Fire > Early Bird, though Early Bird is cool in that Pory doesn't troll this set as much as it would with Flash Fire
- I guess Pursuit > Protect, though dodging Mienfoo(especially Scarf variants that use HJK) is too much to pass up imo
Staryu is awesome at what it does, gets rid of entry hazards while providing enough offense to make it setup bait. STAB Hydro Pump screws up every ghost trying to spinblock except Frillish, which says hi to Thunderbolt. Those two moves also have good coverage on the tier, missing out to only Snover, Lileep, Chinchou, and Ferroseed in terms of common usuage pokes. Combine this with Recover, which allows me to dodge Sucker Punch as well as heal, and Natural Cure, which means it can absorb T-Waves and Toxics, and Staryu supports Houndour really well. The 29 SDef IVs mean that Download Porry(which was p. common on the ladder, 1 Download Pory for every 2 Trace ones) get the Attack boost, which is crucial as it can be troublesome with a Special Attack boost.
- Hidden Power Fire to deal with Snover and Ferroseed, and I am considering this hard too, with the Snover weakness and all. Help guys?
Meet the premier LC tank. With such decent typing, a great ability, recovery, and eviolite, this thing is amazing and hard as hell to take down. This is my answer to Krow, Missy, Drilbur, Sandscrew, and any other weird thing that doesn't use strong Fighting or Ice type attacks. AncientPower is used over Hidden Power Rock because it'll screw with Lileep's great EV spread, which gives it solid mixed defense. STAB Giga Drain is also great when dealing with those threats, and the small recovery is nice too. Toxic rounds off the set, as Golett can set up rocks, and its great at braking down Missy and Krow and co.
- Lol None, maybe Stealth Rock > Toxic, but only if I get rid of Golett
Trait: Iron Fist
EVs: 44 HP / 244 Atk / 116 Def / 84 Spd
Adamant Nature (+Atk, -SAtk)
- Stealth Rock
- Drain Punch
- Ice Punch
Why this pokemon?
Why is this thing so underrated? Seriously, I would ladder with this thing and NO one knows what it does. Is it that bad, or do people not realize the potential? Not only can this thing provide Stealth Rock, it can also spinblock(aka sac itself so Staryu can't spin, allowing me to bring in Krow for the revenge. Even better since most people spin expecting me to switch), as well as be a great Fight resist, since Mienfoo can't get past it, and it also deals somewhat well vs Timburr, but only decently at best. 11 Speed allows me to outpace Pory, Hippo, and bulkier versions of Magnemite. Drain Punch and Ice Punch are great coverage options, allowing me to screw over Drilbur, Hippo, Pory, Diglett, and other things weak to those two attacks.
- Missy may work here, since it provides more special bulk and doesn't bring an Ice weakness(aka, help with Snover problem), but Golett does its job well, and it clears up a spot for Lileep to Toxic, which has saved me some games.
EVs: 236 HP / 196 Def / 76 Spd
Impish Nature (+Def, -SAtk)
- Fake Out
- Drain Punch
- Knock Off
Why this pokemon?
Anyone who wants to get into LC needs to use Mienfoo. This thing is the utility mon of LC, its so basic and so good that its no wonder its constantly #1 in LC usage. This is a more physically defensive spread meant to deal with Scarggy better, and it does help alot vs Scarggy and other Physcial Pokemon. Drain Punch is used over HJK because it deals consistent damage as well as heal Mienfoo, which is great since sometimes switching may not be ideal. Knock Off takes away Scarfs, Evoilites, Life Orbs, and other items that are useful. And of course, U-turn picks up momentum as well as heals Mienfoo thanks to Regenerator.
- There is a reason why its #1 guys, ofc I won't change this. Maybe HJK > Drain Punch, buts thats a risk in itself.
When you have the 1st 5 picked out, usually the 6th Pokemon is the one that brings the team together. Revenge killers are usually a team's glue, and my team is no different. Murkrow has saved me so much games due to its Speed as well as power, as it can easily punch through even the bulkiest of Pokemon. Brave Bird is ridiculous, especially with STAB, plus Sucker Punch to troll Pokemon that use priority/faster than Krow is great as well to take care of those threats. Heat Wave is for Snover, Magnemite, Ferroseed, and Bronzor, while HP Grass are for Clamperl and that turtle. Insomnia tops it off, making it a great switch to Foongus, as it can get a free switch to Spore and it resists Giga Drain. Stun Spore and Sludge Bomb are still annoying though.
- Dark Pulse > HP Grass for times when you need a Dark STAB that doesn't work only when your opponent decides to attack
- Another Scarfer(Magby, Tailow, a few others) to deal with things Murkrow can't do, but cmon, Magby. I'm not THAT stupid.
Spoiler:- Import; Change Dour's HP IVs to 3, Star's SpDef IVs to 29:
Houndour (M) @ Life Orb
Trait: Flash Fire
EVs: 36 Atk / 200 SAtk / 240 Spd
Hasty Nature (+Spd, -Def)
- Fire Blast
- Dark Pulse
- Sucker Punch
Snover - OMG, Scarf varients ruin my day, NOTHING can switch in. Houdour resists both STABs, but a Special Defense under 10 doesn't help when taking STAB Blizzards. Mienfoo can switch in, but it gets 2HKOd and can only Fake Out. Krow can revenge, but the only way that I'll switch in Krow on Snover is if I'm 1000000000000000% sure of Giga Drain. Staryu tanks Blizzards, but can't do **** else(reason why I want HP Fire on it) Hail damage is also annoying, damaging my Pokemon each turn. All in all, a ***** to face, I'm happy whenever I don't see this thing in the lineup.
Larvestra - OMG, I HATE THIS DAMN THING. Nothing switches in to it, U-turn can OHKO Dour, Flare Blitz poops on everything else not named Staryu, Flame Body is even more annoying when trying to take this out with Mienfoo, as I always get the DAMN BURN <.<. Krow revenges, just pray to got not to get the burn. Stealth Rock is also nice to get up ASAP to deal with this thing.
Abra - Not as bad as Snover(nothing can be as bad as Snover) but annoying in that Rocks don't hurt it and unless I have Lileep above 90%, I'll have to sac something to KO it. This is usually Stayu/Houndour, depending on which Poke will be the least amount of help in the battle. On a sand team though, this isn't a threat, the sand boost allows Lileep to tank it all day.
- Double Rush - Can be annoying, especially since Lileep is the only thing that is bulky enough to tank hits and hit back with a SE attack. Lileep can deal with one rusher, the other one usually takes it down. Staryu can deal with them as long as they don't have an SD boost/Hydro Pump hits, and Mienfoo can do the same, though Drain Punch is set up fodder for the rushsers. At low HP, Dour or Krow for the KO.
Rest of Threat List
LC Offensive Threats
Mienfoo: Golett says hi, Mienfoo can tank hits as well
Chinchou: Lileep absorbs Hydro's, tanks Ice Beams and Switches, a bit annoying if Lileep does down, which is rare since I tend to be more careful with it as long as Chinchou is alive
Misdreavus: Lileep uses Toxic and wears it down. Sub varients are annoying, but rare. CM varients are also hard, but Toxic wears them down. At low HP, Dour KOs, Krow revenges
Staryu: Same with Chinchou, without the Ice Beams or the switching for momentum. Golett can die so that rocks stay up, Krow revenges
Croagunk: Golett can set up rocks on varients without Shadow Ball/Dark Pulse, OHKOs with EQ, Krow revenges
Gastly: Lileep can tank LO Shadow Balls can break subs with AncientPower, Krow Revenges
Hippopotas: You lead w/ Hippo. I lead with Staryu. Unless you're running Lileep, say hi to Hydro Pumps. Wheres the double rush now?
Murkrow: Lileep can deal with all varients, AncientPower breaks subs, Toxic it when it uses Roost. Scarf varients are easier to handle, as I can keep spamming Recover on it. Non-Scar Varients, use Krow to revenge, pray its not using T-Wave
Magnemite: Golett says hi to Volt Switces, Flash Cannon is annoying though, but Mienfoo can take those well. Krow to revenge at low HP
Dwebble: Staryu to Hydro Pump/Spin Hazards, Lileep for Shell Smash varients. Golett also resists both STABs, and EQ hits hard enough to make sure it doesn't stay in long. Dour/Krow revenge at low HP
Stunky: Good typing, though not very strong. Mienfoo can deal with it, same with Star. If I can predict assplosion, go to Golett. Krow revenges.
Diglett: Nothing it can really trap except for Dour, which can OHKO w/ Sucker Punch. Sub varietns are annoying though.
Shellder: Lileep can tank Icilce Spear's at +0, Giga Drain can OHKO. At +2, **** becomes a problem. Mienfoo and Star to weaken, Dour and Krow to revenge.
Houndour: Dour can tank other Dours, Dark Pulse and Sucker Punch them to death. Watch out for Speed Ties though. Krow revenges, Star OHKOs
Munchlax: Mienfoo keeps this thing at bay with Drain Punch, though it had good bulk and can be annoying. Non Rest varients say hi to Toxic from Lileep
Clampearl: Star can OHKO, Lileep can tank stuff, Krow revenges.
Drifloon: Lileep wins this one on one, watch out for Destiny Bond though. Dour/Krow revenge
Timburr: Golett prevents it from healing with Drain Punch, so that Krow can revenge, even with a Bulk Up or two.
Pawniard: Haven't seen much of these, though Mienfoo says hi and deals with every varient.
Dratini: Lileep to Toxic and pray Shed Skin doesn't activate, Mienfoo can tank a +2 Outrage, though Drain Punch doesn't do much back. At +1, Krow revenges(only if locked in Outrage, E-Speed is common imo). At +2, get it to low HP(or locked into Outrage) and let Dour/Krow revenge it.
Tirtouga: Krow revenges even at +2, Lileep OHKOs w/ Drain.
Vullaby: Bulk is a bit annoying, nothing that I can't deal with. Golett doesn't fear much from this and can set up Rocks as well as Ice Punch/Drain Punch on roosts, Staryu has enough bulk to tangle with one. Krow revenges
Ponyta: Staryu, pray I don't get hit with a Wild Charge, Lileep also makes a decent switch in and check. Krow revenges
Porygon: Mienfoo can deal with this other than the annoying T-Wave/Download boost, Krow revenges
LC Defensive Threats Bronzor: Golett can set up Rocks, Mienfoo can tank a Psychic and knock off the oran/eviolite. Dour poops on it.
Ferroseed: Dour can roast this alive, though I go into Mien first to scout for T-Wave. Krow can also Roast this alive, just not at full HP
Frillish: Lileep deals with all varietns, Toxic + Giga to wear it down. If Dour switches into Will-O, Dark Pulse deals with it as well. Star's T-Bolt is also a nice measure.
Lileep: My own Lileep, since most other Lileep don't use Toxic, I win this 1 v1 because I can wear it down. Mienfoo can deal with it as well.
Tentacool: Lileep, though not being able to Poison it sucks, Star's T-Bolt is also a good measure
Natu: Lileep uses AncientPower to deal with it, Dour and Star have SE moves agansit it as well.
Slowpoke: Lileep's Toxic is very helpful here, as well as Knock Off by Mienfoo to make it easier to deal with. At low HP, Dour with Dark Pulse KOs
Koffing: Go to Dour to scout WoW, even if then use Sludge Bomb, I still do over 60% with Fire Blast, meaing Krow or Star can revenge
Cottonee: Lileep says hi, Dour revenges.
Last edited by TrollFreak; 7th October 2012 at 7:15 PM.
This team looks really good (I did help make it lol), and it looks really solid, but I think your underrating some theats, besides the Major threats you listed.
Tirtouga can be a serious threat if Lileep is dead. It can destroy a good bit of your team with teh combo of Aqua Tail + Aqua Jet + Stone Edge after a SS. Mienfoo Dies to +2 Splash Plate Aqua Tail, Houndour dies to +2 Aqua Jet, Staryu dies to +2 Stone Edge, Golett dies to +2 Aqua Tail and honestly Murkrow has to win a prediction war. +2 Splash Plate Aqua Jet has a very good chance to OHKO after Murkrow switching into rocks even once. Now you have to be careful about using Sucker Punch, even though you are faster and it will activate before Aqua Jet, if teh opponent knows your scarfed (aka. if you revenge kill Scraggy or something) they might predict that and go for another Shell Smash, and forever ruin your day. Tirtouga requires some snazzy predictions, and honestly if you do mange to outpredict the opponent, Sucker Punch and HP Grass are moves that you really dotn want to be locked into.
In another sense, Shell Smash Shellder can hurt a good bit of your team as well, just not that much. Most Shellder will carry Ice Shard, so using Murkrow is a bad idea. Best bets are to go for Houndour, or Mienfoo. Just something else to be wary of.
Other Murkrow can actually be kinda troublesome. Sure Lileep doesnt take like anything from it, but if your leaving Murkrow on Lileep, your pretty stupid lol. With Prankster, if can scout out which move you'll lock Murkrow into, and switch accordingly.
With other Mienfoo, I wouldn't be so concerned about how much damage it does, but how it can screw up your team royally with one move, Knock Off. Knock Off screws up krow's scarf if you decide to switch it on Mienfoo, wreck Golett's, Staryu's, Mienfoo's, and Lileep's bulk, and it puts the opponents team into a better position. So be careful.
Also i think you are over estimating how well Murkrow can revenge kill (and this is coming from a guy that always uses Scarfkrow). With recoil from Brave Bird, and Stealth Rock, Murkrow's Life is actually pretty short.
Overall, this is a really good team
ayd22: what's it like to use broken items to make up for lackluster skills
ayd22: yeah your playing great right not
ayd22: rethink your strategy The Pokemon Showdown Little Cup Ladder
Never actually had a problem with either Shell Smasher(Since I never face one w/ Aqua Jet) But great point KT!
With Krow/Tirtouga, I always keep Lileep alive, as its my main answer to most of these threats. Thus you can see with my threats, Lileep is the answer, so making it die early would be stupid on my fault(hax is the only way you're killing it or my stupidness)
Knock Off is annoying, though I usually sac Golett after Rocks are set up because alot of Pokemon are faster than it and thus can deal with it. However, if rocks are already up, and Mien knocks off, it'll have to U-turn, as it can't do much else, giving me momentum if I can hit the switch hard
I am NOT Overestimating lol, you think I use Krow to kill ALL my opponent's Pokemon? It does revenge quite alot though, usually don't like KOing things at full health w/ BB unless its Neccasary or Snover
Anywho, thanks for the Rate/Help KT, I really appreciate it!