- Umbreon not showing up for the entire AG series. It didn't have even background appearances that I noticed except for in the opening of Destiny Deoxys. Espeon was shown on screen a lot, but Umbreon? Nope.
- Misty leaving at the end of Master Quest.
- Ash thinking about leaving Pikachu in Pikachu's Goodbye or whatever it was titled.
- Gary Oak becoming a Pokemon Professor. It made sense, but I hated it.
- The voice actor change. It was something that had already happened when I started watching, but I started watching in 2008, but I was watching Johto replays and I remember because my first episode was Power Play and Umbreon became my favorite Pokemon instantly. xD I only remember what episode it was because Umbroen became my favorite. I didn't remember the title for a while, but I remembered what happened in it so I ended up looking up the episode that Gary's Umbreon showed up in and that was the only one where it made a real appearance in Johto so... So I didn't know about the voice actor change until I went online and started watching all the episodes from the beginning and when I got to Battle Frontier I was pretty annoyed with it.
- Umbreon not showing up for the entire AG series. It didn't have even background appearances that I noticed except for in the opening of Destiny Deoxys. Espeon was shown on screen a lot, but Umbreon? Nope.
Haven't you noticed that all Eevee evolutions in the show end up shafted for some reason? I mean we saw Zoey get a Leafon but barely saw it after that in anything esle.
Misty leaving at the end of Master Quest.
I don't know if that was fustrating even more than her staying on when she and Brock both were boring at the time. Please remember that this was Johto.
- Ash thinking about leaving Pikachu in Pikachu's Goodbye or whatever it was titled.
Ash was in something called release mode back in Kanto, he would always think about his pokemon's feelings and happinesss over his own. This is why he doesn't do releases anymore.
- Gary Oak becoming a Pokemon Professor. It made sense, but I hated it.
This. But I'm not sure if he is a pokemon professor quite yet. But I get where you're going with this.
Last edited by Caseydia; 6th March 2013 at 6:06 PM.
the 4th badge in Unova...ugh...having to keep running out to get a new pokemon when Pikachu wanted to fight all along...I don't blame the little guy for getting upset constantly
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If you are a true Swiftie (a Taylor Swift fan) like me and not scared to show it, "Drop Everything Now" and copy and paste in your signature.
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Originally Posted by Dr. Ciel
Like I always say, haters are my motivators!
Spoiler:- EeveeLover's shop, My Fanfics "Missingno the Infection" and "PMD: The Nightmare Games" and Swiftie Club:
Haven't you noticed that all Eevee evolutions in the show end up shafted for some reason? I mean we saw Zoey get a Leafon but barely saw it after that in anything esle.
I have noticed that. xD It's pretty annoying if I'm going to be completely honest.
I don't know if that was fustrating even more than her staying on when she and Brock both were boring at the time. Please remember that this was Johto.
Maybe I should have been more specific. I wasn't entirely frustrated that she was leaving, I mean she was a good character that I knew I'd miss, but I was frustrated that she was just doing what her sister's told her too without a word of argument. I know she must have felt that it was her duty to deal with the gym, but shouldn't her sister's have that same feeling. I guess it was more her sisters I was annoyed at than Misty herself.
Ash was in something called release mode back in Kanto, he would always think about his pokemon's feelings and happinesss over his own. This is why he doesn't do releases anymore.
That's true. He was constantly releasing Pokemon back then wasn't he? xD That carried over to Johto too. He was releasing a lot of his Kanto Pokemon. I was so glad when he just sent his Bulbasaur to Professor Oak. xD
This. But I'm not sure if he is a pokemon professor quite yet. But I get where you're going with this.
Yeah. Gary just seemed like he'd be a great trainer, and I was excited to see him go on. Like I said it made sense for him to become a professor because of Professor Oak, but I hated it. I know he's not an official professor yet, but he is conducting research. I guess that makes him more of a Pokemon Researcher than a Pokemon Professor.
1. When Axew wasted a episode that could have been devoted to League battles
2. Gary constantly having a hard time against Team Galactic when he was really just being downgraded by the writers.
3. Ash's battle against Elesa - If it was the games, he could have swept her entire team with Palpitoad
4. Palpitoad not evolving, or showing any development for that matter
5. N not showing off any of his Pokemon, even though I understand he isn't really a Pokemon Trainer.
6. Sakura not appearing at all in the fight against Madara & Obi-Whoops, wrong show!
7. None of the characters in Unova knowing of Ash's success in every other region :|
8. Ash being cheated out of the Unova League
9. Ambipom being released for Ping Pong, of all things.
10. Zekrom not making one appearance since his debut (May change)
11. The show announcing that Ash is still 10 .______.
12. Iris calling Ash a kid for pretty much everything but when she hears of Ash's awards and stuff by Dawn and Prof. Oak, she doesn't even say "Okay, maybe you aren't a kid". I bet once she meets Charizard, and sees Ash get Flamepalm'd, she'll still call him a kid.
3. Ash's battle against Elesa - If it was the games, he could have swept her entire team with Palpitoad
Not really. I'm pretty sure those Emolga of hers have other moves.
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The Bond of Aura - 3/31/2013 Update "Lucario is rewarded by getting to watch "Lucario & The Mystery of Mew." He can't help but compare his situation with the Lucario in the movie..."
I don't know if that was fustrating even more than her staying on when she and Brock both were boring at the time. Please remember that this was Johto.
What this has to do with anything? Johto may have had its flaws and moments of poor writing, but that doesn't equate to everything there. I don't know about you but Misty and Brock while could have been used more development and some pokemon like Togepi should evolve were highly enjoyable as characters having lot of spunk, flare and humorous memorable moments there.
In addition they received more development and expansion on their dreams(more notably Misty)than they did in Kanto where most focus was directed toward helping Ash to grow as trainer. More so than it was case in johto where he needed less assistance in that aspect.
Personally i think it would have been intriguing if Misty stayed for Hoenn.It really did felt like she left prematurely leaving more to be desired. Just about when she started to grow and mature as person with writers exploring on her master career with Whirl Cup they ditched her without finishing job.
Not to mention having her and May in Hoenn would have set foundation for whole new dynamic between characters being interesting to see how would insecure and bubbly May bounce off with hotheaded, spirited and vivid Misty bringing lot of funny moments, clash and drama. More than Brock produced there. Not to mention her involvement would likely make Team Aqua, Magma arc more intriguing since she as aspiring water trainer would likely want to stop their plans of eradicating water types from face of earth, while advancing her dreams further through writers breaking new grounds aside from Whirl Cup and catch all this cool water types in Hoenn. AG saga was highly rich with water being big miss on writers part to utilize Misty there and do more with story.
We never had two girls in cast and i klnow i would liked if this happened.
Let's see here... What I can list from the back of my mind.
Ash stuck at Top 8 in the Hoenn League
Spinning jump tactic
Torterra's losing streak
Team Rocket taking more screentime during the Sinnoh League especially during Quilava's ONLY battle
Barry losing to Paul without even taking out ONE but that is reasonable I guess
Paul not using his MAIN team not to mention two oddballs like Frosslass and Gastrodon
Tobias'
EDIT: WElp, didn't notice this was in the main anime discussion. Removed all spoilers. Sorry about that.
Last edited by Kazuki Mirai; 5th March 2013 at 11:04 AM.
Brock being replaced with cilan. i rather have brock falling in love then being attacked with his pokemon than cilan bragging about people's pokemon -_-
The fact that ashs pokemon take forever to evolve but I don't want scraggy and oshawott too evolve cuz there cute just the way they are and I really want snivy to evolve damit ash lol
-Pikachu constantly taking the spotlight. I was annoyed this since I was a few years old brat.
-Certain people/pokemon who are never to be seen again. (butterfree, pigdeot, primeape, richie, Misty and so on....)
-Gs ball
-Some pokemon who don't get enough spotlight. (Palpitoad for example)
-Earlier in the series people being mad at the heroes before they can even say a word.
-Tobias
-Iris's Axew
-Lack of character development
-Recent movies
-At first I was annoyed by team rocked becoming so smart, but It was actually a nice change for a while, but I'm still very glad that Spoiler:- tiny spoiler:
-palpitoad's non existance
-krookodile never fighting in the league
-iris not evolving axew so it doesn't stay annoying
-Ash having to dex all 7 eeveelutions in a row in team eevee.
1. When Axew wasted a episode that could have been devoted to League battles.
Finally something I agree with in here.
2. Gary constantly having a hard time against Team Galactic when he was really just being downgraded by the writers.
Well they downgraded Ash lots of times. It's an equal oppurtunity on this show. That's why I think Paul not showing up in bad written Best Wishes wouldn't have been such a good idea.
3. Ash's battle against Elesa - If it was the games, he could have swept her entire team with Palpitoad
I agree. I mean he picked some pretty good choices for pokemon to use against her. If only pikachu was dropped for Roddenrola(excuse spelling), then I would have been more upset if he had almost lost.
4. Palpitoad not evolving, or showing any development for that matter
Palpitoad doesn't need to evolve. It needs to get wins first.
7. None of the characters in Unova knowing of Ash's success in every other region :|
I guess that is why Charizard is here. But I doubt that would have helped him anyway.
8. Ash being cheated out of the Unova League
The whole league sucked. I wasn't expecting him to win this time. However, I wasn't expecting a character(Cameron) who everyone had claimed they liked better than Trip ended up being the one Ash had to battle insteads of someone else more better.
9. Ambipom being released for Ping Pong, of all things.
:sighs: Yes tragic. Be mad at Dawn for that.
10. Zekrom not making one appearance since his debut (May change)
Probably because it's the reason why Pikachu is hated now?
11. The show announcing that Ash is still 10 .______.
Would it make you feel better if he was 11 instead?
12. Iris calling Ash a kid for pretty much everything but when she hears of Ash's awards and stuff by Dawn and Prof. Oak, she doesn't even say "Okay, maybe you aren't a kid". I bet once she meets Charizard, and sees Ash get Flamepalm'd, she'll still call him a kid.
It's Iris't catch phrase. I doubt they would have her stop just because of his Charizard or his past league losses.
What this has to do with anything? Johto may have had its flaws and moments of poor writing, but that doesn't equate to everything there. I don't know about you but Misty and Brock while could have been used more development and some pokemon like Togepi should evolve were highly enjoyable as characters having lot of spunk, flare and humorous memorable moments there.
In addition they received more development and expansion on their dreams(more notably Misty)than they did in Kanto where most focus was directed toward helping Ash to grow as trainer. More so than it was case in johto where he needed less assistance in that aspect.
Pokemon Fan are we really going to do this again? I don't know why you keep saying that " they could have had more development" when the fact is that they didn't.
Togepi's personality is not the only thing that rides it for staying on the show. No offense but it did nothing so I don't understand what that has to do with Misty's developing. When it finally evolved it was released after all that time. Gyaradose who only had an episode with her had more development than Togepi's entire run.
Personally i think it would have been intriguing if Misty stayed for Hoenn.It really did felt like she left prematurely leaving more to be desired. Just about when she started to grow and mature as person with writers exploring on her master career with Whirl Cup they ditched her without finishing job.
What job? The Whirl cup was a filler arc with Ash and Misty trying to win a water pendant. It wasn't an on going thing like the others. I doubt that would have worked in Hoenn. And with Contests coming in at that time would have completely changed her goal. I liked May and Misty and I liked their roles but they both got boring after a while. And please don't say anything about Brock because everyone knows now.
Not to mention having her and May in Hoenn would have set foundation for whole new dynamic between characters being interesting to see how would insecure and bubbly May bounce off with hotheaded, spirited and vivid Misty bringing lot of funny moments, clash and drama. More than Brock produced there. Not to mention her involvement would likely make Team Aqua, Magma arc more intriguing since she as aspiring water trainer would likely want to stop their plans of eradicating water types from face of earth, while advancing her dreams further through writers breaking new grounds aside from Whirl Cup and catch all this cool water types in Hoenn. AG saga was highly rich with water being big miss on writers part to utilize Misty there and do more with story.
They had tried to have Misty along with May, Ash and the others in BF and you see how that went. She had nothing to really do so they had her hang around Max for the entire episode. And having her there would have just been having more characters sit on the side while Ash and May did their things. I didn't like that Max didn't get a pokemon of his own and didn't like that Brock did little to nothing in Hoenn, so why the hell would Misty being there would have done anything? We know that she and May got along but other than that, she would have been pushed further into the background and I would have hated to see that.
Last edited by Caseydia; 6th March 2013 at 6:35 PM.
Pokemon Fan are we really going to do this again? I don't know why you keep saying that " they could have had more development" when the fact is that they didn't.
Togepi's personality is not the only thing that rides it for staying on the show. No offense but it did nothing so I don't understand what that has to do with Misty's developing. When it finally evolved it was released after all that time. Gyaradose who only had an episode with her had more development than Togepi's entire run.
Its obvious how Misty and Brock weren't fleshed out as much as they could have been in Johto. With Misty there could have been done more about her water master dream in Johto instead of wasting time on fillers, focus more on her improvement as trainer learning how to counter types against which water is weak, teach Psyduck how to battle, explore on her fears like Gyarados or bugs, give her rivals etc.
Same applies to Brock and his breeder goal, underused pokemon like Onix which could've evolve than,Crobat or Geodude.
Speaking of Togepi it played some role in Misty characterization being step toward maturity in future.
Thanks to help of her friends and Togepi Misty started to grow from impatient girl which tried with temper to cover up her insecure side in more level headed and mature person over time while retaining her spunk and playful traits which added more layers and depth to already great character. Helping her to be more tolerant being willing to admit her own flaws, appreciate Ash and Brock as friends much more as well pokemon like Psyduck growing to like them, get over complex of feeling less worthy becoming less insecure and filled her with sense of responsibility.
What job? The Whirl cup was a filler arc with Ash and Misty trying to win a water pendant. It wasn't an on going thing like the others. I doubt that would have worked in Hoenn. And with Contests coming in at that time would have completely changed her goal. I liked May and Misty and I liked their roles but they both got boring after a while. And please don't say anything about Brock because everyone knows now.
Whirl Cup was directly focused on water master career being introduced as one of steps you need to pass to come closer toward such goal. So no it wasn't filler, but plot related arc focusing on Misty goal and story with writers starting to expand more on her dreams with it. Only reason we didn't saw new grounds being break with it was because Misty left cast shortly afterwards, but with this writers started to do more active approach with Misty story having vision through which they could take her forward.
Since water is most widespread and common type out there, having enough variety and pokemon to choose from, chain composed of 4 to 5 events spread over region through which we could see sequel with Misty being done, supporting it through episodes where she would grow could have worked out without problem.
Talking about stale, to me Misty and May remained interesting enjoying in them during whole run. Even if you become bored of some character if new life is added to his story being took in new directions he can become appealing again.
However regardless if you felt character became stale to you or not, instead of giving up from someone you used to like demanding immediately replacement wont solve any issue with writers sweeping issues under the rug instead of directly confronting them with same faith happening with new one. Such concept only discourage creativity with writers not being forced to write in more complex, meaningful way and do actually substantial deeper growth with characters.
If anything keeping already established characters allows for continuation of his/her story going through more substantial growth being refreshing breath of fresh air from usual formula we got used to. Of constantly bringing new companions which go through basic, formulaic development leaving unfinished in half of their run deprived of chance to go on bigger, better things.
They had tried to have Misty along with May, Ash and the others in BF and you see how that went. She had nothing to really do so they had her hang around Max for the entire episode. And having her there would have just been having more characters sit on the side while Ash and May did their things. I didn't like that Max didn't get a pokemon of his own and didn't like that Brock did little to nothing in Hoenn, so why the hell would Misty being there would have done anything? We know that she and May got along but other than that, she would have been pushed further into the background and I would have hated to see that.
First of all your example about in what way Misty would be treated in AG is invalid, since characters which appear for few episodes aren't expected to receive lot of development and structured on going story through which you can take them forward. Cameos serve mostly to give us update about character, what has changed in meantime with their lives and pokemon and to receive if possible some minor growth if length of their appearances would allow for it.
Needless to say in Misty cameos during BF if you didn't noticed she was main center of attention there with episode focusing mostly on her and Max helping him to restore and strengthen bond with older sister. Which was much more focus than Ash and May received during "Real Cleffa Hanger", so im not quite sure about what "standing in background" your referring to?
Now about Misty treatment in AG your assuming things up without any concrete proof to warrant such conclusion. Reason why Max didn't had lot of screen time, battling etc is for one simple reason; he didn't had any pokemon being too young for it. And in series which revolve mostly around small creatures with special abilities there's not much you can do with character which doesn't have them limiting greatly his activities.
Additionally Brock isn't good indication to go by how would Misty or any character be treated if stayed. They are completely different characters with different goals, personalities etc serving different purpose. Brock was in reality always treated as third wheel character, being there to act as older caretaker and mentor to group, role which Misty isnt suitable to fulfill.
With Misty she always received more than Brock did(even in Johto) . With her goal it was showed how it involves battling, training, exploring as well entering tournaments being more active than Brock was warranting more screen time and exposure.
With more battle oriented quests writers have easier time in creating something for character, because it opens window of possibilities(like inclusion of rivals,competitions,training episodes etc).
Misty would likely get more focus in Hoenn than she did in Johto because ex head writer in his blogs stated how in case they kept her only way to justify further stay would be in increase of role.
Such as expanding on her water goal and story established through Whirl Cup creating chain of events using water to full potential serving as further steps forward(water tournamnts similar to Whirl Cup, races, underwater battles etc), introducing to her rival which strives for same thing like Iris received, add new dimensions to poke team by catching various dual water types creating diversity in her team etc.
Have her play role in plots which involve battling and entering competitions from which Brock would had no benefit at all(like villain arc Team Aqua and Magma being fitting to have passionate water trainer trying to stop someone from exterminating water pokemon, allowing that she plays role in episodes featuring Wallace or Juan, have her enter battle related competitions like May and Ash entered)etc.
If Misty stayed for Hoenn chances are how Max would never existed and May would possibly receive less focus balancing things out between two girls in same cast.
On-topic: This might just be me, but I don't like how Ash reacts to a loss in recent years. Instead of getting disappointed and seeing what he could have done better, he just takes it in stride and goes "I'LL DO BETTER NEXT TIME! I HAD SO MUCH FUN" like a typical happy-go-lucky boy (I don't mind happy-go-lucky characters, but at least add more facets to their character).
Originally Posted by pokemon fan 132
Even if you become bored of some character if new life is added to his story being took in new directions he can become appealing again.
However regardless if you felt character became stale to you or not, instead of giving up from someone you used to like demanding immediately replacement wont solve any issue with writers sweeping issues under the rug instead of directly confronting them with same faith happening with new one. Such concept only discourage creativity with writers not being forced to write in more complex, meaningful way and do actually substantial deeper growth with characters.
If anything keeping already established characters allows for continuation of his/her story going through more substantial growth being refreshing breath of fresh air from usual formula we got used to. Of constantly bringing new companions which go through basic, formulaic development leaving unfinished in half of their run deprived of chance to go on bigger, better things.
This I can agree with. But if a fresh start has to be done, it has to be like a pseudo-sequel (for a video game example, Dark Cloud to Dark Cloud 2).
You're absolutely right, replacing over and over has gotten tired (which is ironic, since it's an attempt to keep things "fresh"). Dragonball, One Piece, Avatar: The Last Airbender (which also has a sort of pseudo-sequel) had additions, but they still kept their existing characters fresh. In the case of ATLA (which I haven't watched for a while, so my memory might be fuzzy), but from what I remember, Sokka left for a while, but returned eventually with new skills, development, etc.
Virgil's Leafeon is his only Eeveelution that never got to do anything. (Honestly, that thing gets no love).
Ash evolved less Pokémon.
May not making a cameo in forever.
I hate Pikari. She stole all of Takeshi's screen time, Plus Poké Balls, and along with her evil Penguin, Spammed all of Takeshi's Pokémon with Everstones.
That explains so much of what happened to him in DP, and why he didn't speak to Dawn much... or ever.
The only time a character truly dies is when you don't see them in shows anymore. RIP Takeshi. http://gpxplus.net/user/Blob55
An aspect of every Pokemon season (After the first season) that has always frustrated me is that Ash and his Pikachu (Who technically should be able to destroy a majority of new trainers and Pokemon considering what "lvl" Pikachu SHOULD be) always lose the first battle upon entering a new journey. Seemingly always against a brand new Pokemon given to a trainer (Ash's current rival) by the respective Prof. (Example Trip and his Snivy)
Charizard losing to a charmander. Charizard losing to a Blaziken. Ash releasing Charizard, Lapras, Butterfree and pidgeotto. Not evolving pikachu. Breaking Misty's bike. Losing every league (Orange League does not count rofl). Brock leaving and May leaving. Misty leaving.
"If you strike me down, I shall become more powerful than you can possibly imagine."
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Originally Posted by *~Silver*~
