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Thread: Should Ash (along with May and Dawn) have actually learnt about being Trainers?

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    Default Should Ash (along with May and Dawn) have actually learnt about being Trainers?

    Aside from the obvious out-of-universe answer, let's look at it in-universe: Wouldn't it have been more wiser of the Pokemon Professors to give out starter Pokemon and a license to catch more to those who know just about all of the basics from the get-go and are capable of surviving out in the world independently while raising creatures who could very well kill you in a wild encounter? I mean, Ash was lucky to come across Misty and Brock who helped them but suppose he never did. He wouldn't have made it out there all on his own. If he was more smart, resourceful and independent (like Red from PokeSpe), then I could totally get him becoming a Pokemon Trainer since Oak (we don't know about Sammy from the fourth movie, mind you) would've seen him for the role. Plus, the "ten year old" thing could just be written off as people in the Pokemon world maturing faster than in our world. Plus, there are Pokemon Trainer Schools and yet Ash seems to have never gone to one. They should be a requirement, not an option.

    Same goes for May and Dawn who were even more clueless. Dawn didn't even know how work a Poke Ball until Ash told her to make it bigger. Imagine if Ash and he never met.

    So what are your thoughts? Please refrain from answering with statements like "it's a kids show so they need this to make relatable characters" to try brushing it all under the rug and leaving it at that. At least provide more of an answer and tell us your opinions on this from an in-universe perspective as well.
    Last edited by matt0044; 10th October 2012 at 5:12 PM.

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    There doesn't really seem to be much scope for discussion here. The in universe answer is "Yes" but the "out of universe" answers that you want us to refrain from posting are the reasons why this isn't the case

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    Quote Originally Posted by cg19293 View Post
    There doesn't really seem to be much scope for discussion here. The in universe answer is "Yes" but the "out of universe" answers that you want us to refrain from posting are the reasons why this isn't the case
    Okay. I just edited it now.
    Last edited by matt0044; 10th October 2012 at 5:11 PM.

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    In the games, you are given a Pokemon to protect you. I know they have separate continuities, but the same logic could apply. Perhaps the Pokemon know more than their trainers at first?
    Last edited by pacman000; 10th October 2012 at 5:07 PM.
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    The issue is dawn and possibly ash actually did know the basics of being a trainer but just got caught up in the excitement that they forgot somethings. Then once Ash/Misty respectively showed up the idiot ball was dropped in their laps turning them stupid for the majority of the saga.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pacman000 View Post
    In the games, you are given a Pokemon to protect you. I know they have separate continuities, but the same logic could apply. Perhaps the Pokemon know more than their trainers at first?
    Yes, but while Pokemon protect you, you yourself in turn have to raise them and treat them well. They're basically your responsibility especially in the Anime where they are fed, played with, and so on.

    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    The issue is dawn and possibly ash actually did know the basics of being a trainer but just got caught up in the excitement that they forgot somethings. Then once Ash/Misty respectively showed up the idiot ball was dropped in their laps turning them stupid for the majority of the saga.
    Yes, but in their early Trainer days, they're outright ignorant about things that should be essential to remember. May didn't even like Pokemon and her father just send her to get one and become a Trainer when for all he knew she'd be mauled by a Mightyena even with a starter. Sorry for the morbid thought but still, she didn't even know that Torchic could evolve at first.
    Last edited by matt0044; 10th October 2012 at 5:22 PM.

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    I don't care.

    ... but I guess you want a more insightful answer. Let me see.

    ...

    Okay. Let's go with this.

    The humans in the Pokemon World are rarely in any actual danger. That's because the vast majority of Pokemon in the very least tolerate the existence of humanity and have more say in who captures them and how they raise them then the show wants to imply. Most Pokemon choose to go with their Trainer for one reason or another. Those that don't either tag along the reap the benefits of having a Trainer like easy to come by food, on demand healthcare, and a generally more relaxed lifestyle then barely scratching by in the wild. Humans in exchange get protection from the elements and the few Pokemon who are genuinely aggressive. It's an arrangement that benefits everyone involved.

    And if a Pokemon doesn't like their Trainer? Well, they can always run away. There was a Book in Canalave's Library that suggested that all of the Pokemon in the World can suddenly up and leave if they think that mankind in general is mistreating them. Since humans seem to rely on Pokemon now for everything from personal protection to helping their food and water supplies stay fresh this would be absolutely devastating to humanity so it's in their best interests to keep Pokemon happy. Movie 12 kinds of backs that very idea when Arceus made the decision just to kill 'em all after he was betrayed by just one.

    Even on the off chance that a Pokemon decides its had enough and lashes out humans have proven that they're a lot more durable then you'd think. We've seen Ash take a Flamethrower to the face (comically) and a Poison Tail to the back in a more serious scene. It seems like it'd take a lot to phase, let alone injure, a human in the Pokemon World.

    As far as Pokemon Care goes ... I'd imagine that are the bare minimal they were given a Pokemon Care course along with their regular academic subjects during their mandatory school years (which looks like Ages 5 - 8). Something along the lines of caring for the classroom pet that most Elementary School students experience once. From there they're welcome to free additional training on the road.

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    ^But what about Pokemon that are clearly out of control with a will to kill like the Rhypherior when Piplup was depressed about Gible? Imagine running into that and while humans are more durable they can still get hurt. Not that you didn't have a point, I'm just asking this in addition.

    And while Ash was this ignorant in OS's start, BW took that to a new level for sure. Especially during the battle against Elesa.
    Last edited by matt0044; 10th October 2012 at 6:09 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    ^But what about Pokemon that are clearly out of control with a will to kill like the Rhypherior when Piplup was depressed about Gible? Imagine running into that. Not that you didn't have a point, I'm just asking this in addition.
    Well that was a bad example, since the rhyperior was depressed that his trainer forgot about him. Try the aggron in Trials and Adulations for a true aggressive pokemon that was aggressive for no reason.

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    They sort of explained it with May, she said she was never allowed to watch any of Norman's battles with Gym challengers.

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    But what about Pokemon that are clearly out of control with a will to kill like the Rhypherior when Piplup was depressed about Gible?
    Then you take same advice you would give a person if they encounter a bear; do not engage it.

    We've actually seen this in practice a few times. In Sinnoh for example James went after the Shiny Metagross despite posted and verbal warnings that it was extremely dangerous. Scott from the Battle Frontier seemed to be aware of places where aggressive Pokemon live and carried something to repel them as a precaution. Remember that not everyone even owns a Pokemon but are able to get around just fine. Humans probably make a point to only travel along pre-determined routes that are unlikely to have aggressive Pokemon.

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    Quote Originally Posted by CyberCubed View Post
    They sort of explained it with May, she said she was never allowed to watch any of Norman's battles with Gym challengers.
    Pokemon. Trainer. School. Was Norman too cheap to get May into one?

    To Anoobis: Yeah, you have a point.

    Another thing is that Ash seems to rely on Brock and Cilan for food. What if he never met them or a companion who could cook? Shouldn't he know how to provide for himself and his Pokemon? Being a Trainer doesn't guarantee that you'll meet people to help you along the way? Paul for instance...
    Last edited by matt0044; 10th October 2012 at 8:59 PM.

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    Trainers eat for free at any Pokemon Center. There also seem to be cabins randomly dotted along routes for Trainers to stay in. They probably have emergency rations (canned food, medical supplies, warm blankets) stashed away somewhere for Trainers to just take and go. If all else fails you can always have your Pokemon scout out some edible food for you in the forest. Fruit bearing trees seem to grow anywhere that grass can grow in the Pokemon World.

    Paul (and his Pokemon) ate canned food. I imagine that they sell non-perishable food the same place they buy the potions we rarely see them actually using.

    Ash seems to be capable of traveling without a designated chef. Not only did he make the trip from Hoenn (until he forgot to restock) and Sinnoh (much better) fine but he traveled the entire Orange Islands without having a crisis. Thinking back the group ate a lot of fruit and sandwiches. The Orange Islands is probably the most treacherous region that Ash ever traveled through since it can take days to ferry from island to island and there's no promise that food, a town, or even a Pokemon Center will be on the island. There are just times that he forgot to restock on supplies in town because that was Brock's job.

    This is kind of why I want Ash to travel alone even if it's just for an arch. Traveling alone has helped his friends significantly, but he seems to rely on them for things that any other Trainer can do on their own.

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    Do you mean them going to pokemon school or whatever??
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1rkhachatryan View Post
    Do you mean them going to pokemon school or whatever??
    Pretty much, yeah.

    This is kind of why I want Ash to travel alone even if it's just for an arch. Traveling alone has helped his friends significantly, but he seems to rely on them for things that any other Trainer can do on their own.
    My thoughts exact. I'd do Ash good to sorta realize that he can't always rely on his friends for everything.

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    Remember Ash and Dawn grew up in small farming towns that most likely doesn't have much beyond k-5 education. So no fancy trainer schools and all that and neither of them are the type to do much self study. May didn't even want to train pokemon so she of course had no need for further education. Iris well,     Spoiler:

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Pretty much, yeah.



    My thoughts exact. I'd do Ash good to sorta realize that he can't always rely on his friends for everything.
    Yes I do lol. Ash needs a tutor >_<. The writer should of made Brock become a teacher lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    Remember Ash and Dawn grew up in small farming towns that most likely doesn't have much beyond k-5 education. So no fancy trainer schools and all that and neither of them are the type to do much self study. May didn't even want to train pokemon so she of course had no need for further education. Iris well,     Spoiler:
    Then why bother at all? I mean, what did Delia do to get Oak to make Ash a Trainer?

    On second thought, don't answer...

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    Imagine the Extent of Pokemon Care 101 is.

    " Welcome to Pokemon Care 101. "

    " This is a Pokemon. They do stuff. "

    " For all extents and purposes they should be capturing us, but whatever. "

    " You feed it these pellet things in a can. "

    " Don't put your hand in their mouths. "

    " ... then again, try not to touch them at all. These things are dangerous. "

    " That concludes the Pokemon Care Course. You may pick up your Pokemon Certificate on the way out. "

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    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    Imagine the Extent of Pokemon Care 101 is.

    " Welcome to Pokemon Care 101. "

    " This is a Pokemon. They do stuff. "

    " For all extents and purposes they should be capturing us, but whatever. "

    " You feed it these pellet things in a can. "

    " Don't put your hand in their mouths. "

    " ... then again, try not to touch them at all. These things are dangerous. "

    " That concludes the Pokemon Care Course. You may pick up your Pokemon Certificate on the way out. "
    What about hands-on lessons like in the AG episode where in the school Roxanne teaches at, there are Pokemon to for the students to practice with? That would've helped Ash.

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    I imagine they're like Driving Schools in the US. Where I live you must have your Learner's Permit before enrolling in Driving School.

    Similarly you must have your Pokemon Training License before going to Training School.

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    I've been thinking about this, and I realized something: in the original series, Ash wasn't that dumb. Sure he did dumb things, but he could recognize Pokemon, he knew Caterpie's moves, he knew how to camp, swim, etc. He thought more with his heart than with his head, so he seemed dumb, but he wasn't a complete idiot. He needed to mature, that's all.

    I don't know about May; I haven't seen much past the original series.
    Last edited by pacman000; 11th October 2012 at 5:45 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacman000 View Post
    I've been thinking about this, and I realized something: in the original series, Ash wasn't that dumb. Sure he did dumb things, but he could recognize Pokemon, he knew Caterpie's moves, he knew how to camp, swim, etc. He thought more with his heart than with his head, and made him seem dumb, but he wasn't a complete idiot. He needed to mature, that's all.
    You got that right. But even then, I question Oak's decision (movie four or otherwise) to give the kid Pikachu who was very distrustful. Sure they got along but if they didn't, Ash wouldn't been made into Swiss cheese by those Spearows. Just saying that a lot could've gone wrong and it's these reasons the "ten year old" aspect of Trainer is frequently questioned.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    You got that right. But even then, I question Oak's decision (movie four or otherwise) to give the kid Pikachu who was very distrustful. Sure they got along but if they didn't, Ash wouldn't been made into Swiss cheese by those Spearows. Just saying that a lot could've gone wrong and it's these reasons the "ten year old" aspect of Trainer is frequently questioned.
    True, but Ho-oh was near by, so it he would've been ok.

    Perhaps he needed experience to mature? The games implied that being a Pokemon trainer was a coming-of-age, right of passage type thing. Perhaps the show's writers picked up on that and decided to use it. (Here I go mixing continuities again; please forgive me.)
    Last edited by pacman000; 11th October 2012 at 5:44 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pacman000 View Post
    True, but Ho-oh was near by, so it he would've been ok.

    Perhaps he needed experience to mature? The games implied that being a Pokemon trainer was a coming-of-age, right of passage type thing. Perhaps the show's writers picked up on that and decided to use it. (Here I go mixing continuities again; please forgive me.)
    I guess so but it begs the question: have any Trainers actually died on their journey?

    And out of the three, May and Dawn are the biggest offenders as they seem to forget or just not know even the most basic knowledge at the beginning when they should've had. Ash didn't start out so bad but BW... oh boy.

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