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Thread: Does anyone else find the dialogue to be... bland?

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    Default Does anyone else find the dialogue to be... bland?

    You're free to disagree with me on this but for me, dialogue can really make or break a TV show. It can bring out the best (or worse) of characters via foils and banter and even a character that lacks in certain areas can shine even a little with a few good lines.

    It's this reason (among others) that kinda makes it hard to enjoy Pokemon DP and BW's dubs (and JPN version to an extent) since the dialogue and the delivery seems so bland, dull and lifeless. Yeah, it's a kid's show but I grew up on shows that put honest effort into the character's lines so they'd be entertaining so it being a kids show is honestly a feeble excuse.

    What are your thoughts on this as a viewer?

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    Some of the episodes in Black and White have been funny, there have a been a few one liners here and there that I found almost as good at the previous dub. But you are correct. Before there was much more wit, and way more jokes, and cleverness.

    One of my favorite lines from a new episode is when Iris tells Bianca, "I know someone who forgot to charge their Xtranciever." And Axew pipes up and says "ewwww!". Very cute, and pointless, but considering that all Axew can say is his name, I don't know I just laugh every time I think about it.

    I also loved the episode with Alder, cause they make him out to be a womanizing old man.

    Sometimes I do wonder about those voice actors.

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    DP team rocket while I wanted to kill them, also made me laugh at how poetic they've become.

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    Quote Originally Posted by pokemonsquared View Post
    DP team rocket while I wanted to kill them, also made me laugh at how poetic they've become.
    Yeah, they sounded like rejected Dr. Suess Characters. Actually, even Dr. Suess would be like, "Whoa, ease up on the alliteration there."

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    Are you suggesting you actually miss 4KIDS' scripts? Then again, some people here still miss the 4KIDS dub after all these years...

    I haven't sat down to watch any of the more recent episodes (though I did watch movies ten and thirteen), so I really don't have the right to talk about the new dub's scripts, but you have to remember that Pokémon is a children's show (like you mentioned). Apparently, good ol' Pokémon USA wants to simplify some things in the dialogue so children could understand a little better. But perhaps the dialogue is bland because the new voice actors maybe aren't as energetic as the previous VAs were.

    I you look back at the 4KIDS dialogue and look past its silliness, it's just as dull as you think it is. But you hardly notice because the VAs sound like they are really getting into their characters, and are having fun with it. I really don't feel that for Ash these days. Sarah Natochenny is trying, but she still hasn't gotten the character down quite yet, in my opinion.
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    Well, not just for nostalgia's sake, but OS was genius because the dialogue was genuinely witty a lot of the time. Sometimes something might be pronounced in such a way I wouldnt understand it, but it would at least sound natural; I agree the delivery now is pretty bland and flat, but I dont know the kind of feedback given to the VAs.

    When I used to watch the dub of Digimon and compare it to the Japanese, I remember the Japanese version always sounded a bit dull, and everyone would harp on about the English version having forced and unecessary wisecracks. But I thought it was great the amount of humour the dubbers stuck in the show which was otherwise a bit lifeless.

    I suppose hardcore animé watchers prefer the 'bland' nature of todays dialogue; it progresses the story without deviation or resorting to attempts to be funny. I just watch TV when its too wet to play sport, so I just want to be entertained and to have a chance to laugh.

    Maybe you and me and others find it a bit flat today but the target audience for the cartoon will always be hardcore watchers .




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    Haven't you done this thread already, Matt?


    98% of the teenage population has died smoking pot. If you're one of the 2% who hasn't, copy & paste this in your signature.
    Good old natural selection...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Honeyichigo View Post
    Haven't you done this thread already, Matt?
    Eh, Audino...

    Quote Originally Posted by d4rk_tailed View Post
    When I used to watch the dub of Digimon and compare it to the Japanese, I remember the Japanese version always sounded a bit dull, and everyone would harp on about the English version having forced and unecessary wisecracks. But I thought it was great the amount of humour the dubbers stuck in the show which was otherwise a bit lifeless.
    I sorta wish they did both with enough faithfulness to the Japanese version but good dialogue that sounds natural in the English language. Wisecracks are fine so long as it's not overdone (but even then, I can have fun).
    Last edited by matt0044; 21st October 2012 at 5:23 PM.

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    I don't remember Pokemon ever having riveting dialogue.

    It's always been an awkward mix of explaining the obvious, repeating the obvious, and cultural puns. Dub. Raw. Doesn't matter.

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    Quote Originally Posted by An00bis View Post
    It's always been an awkward mix of explaining the obvious, repeating the obvious, and cultural puns. Dub. Raw. Doesn't matter.
    Man, it's as if the script writers were writing them with no effort put into them. Like they were purposely aiming for the lowest common denominator.
    Last edited by matt0044; 22nd October 2012 at 1:44 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    You're free to disagree with me on this but for me, dialogue can really make or break a TV show. It can bring out the best (or worse) of characters via foils and banter and even a character that lacks in certain areas can shine even a little with a few good lines.

    It's this reason (among others) that kinda makes it hard to enjoy Pokemon DP and BW's dubs (and JPN version to an extent) since the dialogue and the delivery seems so bland, dull and lifeless. Yeah, it's a kid's show but I grew up on shows that put honest effort into the character's lines so they'd be entertaining so it being a kids show is honestly a feeble excuse.

    What are your thoughts on this as a viewer?
    I agree Matt: I think the scripts in DP and BW are really bland in all honesty IMO. I really am not fond of TPCi's dub anyway (it makes me very depressed just hearing these lifeless voices for the characters), and it still makes me cringe whenever I hear Ash or Team Rocket speak in BW (I dunno- it's really ruined the show for me). I just sit there going -_- through most of the episode, bored and fall asleep about 10 minutes through. The beginning of BW had my hopes up but now I'm back to my DP standards in terms of, "Well this is boring. I wonder if this will ever end."

    *sigh* I know this isn't happening because I know TPCi too well at this point (why do I still hope the dub can be saved? Oh, I'm just a fool I guess.), but if the dub voices were replaced and made more tolerable for Ash and the other main characters, I'd probably be very interested again. With this cast, I'm bored silly and my ears ache. And Cathcart's alliteration count is irritating in DP too and it's really pathetic. BW is just so...lifeless...like they're completely one-dimensional characters with those scripts and dialogue. I cannot take Jimmy Zoppi/James Carter Cathcart's James seriously at all either: even Eric's homosexual James in AG was better at being serious than Jimmy's ever been. The dialogue is definitely bland now, and the voice acting compounds the problem tenfold from TPCi's cast. I don't think they'll ever improve to the point where they're actually enjoyable with these characters. I'm used to them but I absolutely dislike them nonetheless and the lifeless dialogue definitely does not help either in DP or BW...
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    I agree 100% B/W is hard to get through, It seems the writers are just writing down what ever to finish the episode. with D/P the dialogue was bland but the last season had exciting material so I was still interested I hope that is the case for B/W i'm losing interest in this series.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    I agree Matt: I think the scripts in DP and BW are really bland in all honesty IMO. I really am not fond of TPCi's dub anyway (it makes me very depressed just hearing these lifeless voices for the characters), and it still makes me cringe whenever I hear Ash or Team Rocket speak in BW (I dunno- it's really ruined the show for me). I just sit there going -_- through most of the episode, bored and fall asleep about 10 minutes through. The beginning of BW had my hopes up but now I'm back to my DP standards in terms of, "Well this is boring. I wonder if this will ever end."

    *sigh* I know this isn't happening because I know TPCi too well at this point (why do I still hope the dub can be saved? Oh, I'm just a fool I guess.), but if the dub voices were replaced and made more tolerable for Ash and the other main characters, I'd probably be very interested again. With this cast, I'm bored silly and my ears ache. And Cathcart's alliteration count is irritating in DP too and it's really pathetic. BW is just so...lifeless...like they're completely one-dimensional characters with those scripts and dialogue. I cannot take Jimmy Zoppi/James Carter Cathcart's James seriously at all either: even Eric's homosexual James in AG was better at being serious than Jimmy's ever been. The dialogue is definitely bland now, and the voice acting compounds the problem tenfold from TPCi's cast. I don't think they'll ever improve to the point where they're actually enjoyable with these characters. I'm used to them but I absolutely dislike them nonetheless and the lifeless dialogue definitely does not help either in DP or BW...

    OMG i can not agree more. Eric Stuart's James voice made the show amazing. He could make his sound daring and intimidating, and then turn around and make him weak and vulnerable. Jimmy doesn't have enough variation in his voice to do that. although jessie and meowth have new voices they aren't to far from the originals. Maddie's moewth voice was perfect. Veronica Taylor's Ash was obviously the best but I think Sarah's Adds a new maturity sound to ash ( don't get me wrong I would take veronica back any day) They have great material but the cast cant pull it together. but just wait their will be another fight over money and pokemon will yet again have the rights sold to some other company

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    Quote Originally Posted by TakenGrace View Post
    OMG i can not agree more. Eric Stuart's James voice made the show amazing. He could make his sound daring and intimidating, and then turn around and make him weak and vulnerable. Jimmy doesn't have enough variation in his voice to do that. although jessie and meowth have new voices they aren't to far from the originals. Maddie's moewth voice was perfect. Veronica Taylor's Ash was obviously the best but I think Sarah's Adds a new maturity sound to ash ( don't get me wrong I would take veronica back any day) They have great material but the cast cant pull it together. but just wait their will be another fight over money and pokemon will yet again have the rights sold to some other company
    Yeah, the chemistry is really missing in the current dub for sure among all the characters, and I guess that's one real problem I have with the English dub right now. And thanks for being so kind! No offense to TPCi's dub crew but I am personally looking forward to another dub company taking over. I don't think it can get much worse than where we are at now. XD.

    Quote Originally Posted by TakenGrace View Post
    I agree 100% B/W is hard to get through, It seems the writers are just writing down what ever to finish the episode. with D/P the dialogue was bland but the last season had exciting material so I was still interested I hope that is the case for B/W i'm losing interest in this series.
    I know, totally! I used to think B/W would revive the series but now it's painful to watch and I'm also losing interest in Pokemon now. The voice acting from TPCi is only making the B/W saga harder to stomach too.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 22nd October 2012 at 6:29 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Honestly, the VAs nowadays aren't bad but they sadly just have lackluster material to work with. In a another, better dub, they'd really shine, especially with the right characters.

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    Quote Originally Posted by matt0044 View Post
    Honestly, the VAs nowadays aren't bad but they sadly just have lackluster material to work with. In a another, better dub, they'd really shine, especially with the right characters.
    Meh, I beg to differ man. They still make me cringe. I'm at JPN w/subs because the English dub is unbearable with the current crew. Sorry to say that, but well...kinda ruined the anime for me. Still ruining it now, -_-. XD.

    I think the biggest problem with the dub now is that we can see the characters (Ash and Team Rocket in particular) with voices that do not match them at all. I'm not saying their bad voice actors but MAN are they miscast in their roles. They DEFINITELY would do better with other characters.

    Take Zoppi, he's not Meowth or James, he's Weevil Underwood.

    Or Kayzie, she's not Max, she's Coby from the 4Kids One Piece dub.

    Sarah is Stephanie from 5D's, not Ash or Delia.

    Bill is Gakashu, not Brock.

    I could go on but the voices they use are not the right ones for the characters. Whether it's Tom Wayland's fault, I do not know. lol.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 22nd October 2012 at 7:42 PM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Dialog has never been that good in this show. That's because this is for younger kids and not rated PG13. If it was, then things would be different. Probably better.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Caseydia View Post
    Dialog has never been that good in this show. That's because this is for younger kids and not rated PG13. If it was, then things would be different. Probably better.
    You don't need a show to be PG or higher for quality dialogue. I'm afraid swears don't equal a better script.

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    I think the main problem lies with misinterpreting Pokemon's marketing potential. Pokemon has always been a kids show, but it doesn't need to be treated as such at every corner. You have to consider how to lengthen the average loyalty of the viewer, and the quality of the plot, dialogue, and characters determines that. By creating content merely equivalent to the general public's expectations of a "kids show", the show will fail to go much beyond that. When Pokemon anime begins efforts to actually exceed expectations again, then the dialogue will likely improve.
    I am the current leader of Save Our Voice Actors, a Pokemon fan group supporting the voice actors in the anime dubbed by 4Kids (seasons 1-8). Our goal is to provide The Pokemon Company international with encouraging feedback in support of returning the main cast members. If you're interested, please visit us at facebook.com/saveourvoiceactors

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    I agree with you. I stopped watching the anime in DPP when Dawn came in... Huhhhh Dawn... (so like the third episode) To get back on topic, I watched the season two years ago and I found it really dull and lame. The stuff they said was not funny, if it was it was because it did not make sense. The script was fine, but there was something missing. I watched all of RSE with no problem but now, I just found it boring and painful to watch. Now we are going in 2011... March 6th 2011 aka the date pokemon BW came out in North America... I was in a book store waiting for the Game Stop to open when I saw some pokemon mangas... I was like omg...(I bought two manga 7 and 8 of Silver and Gold) I liked it way better. It made sense, the characters where "cool" and the bad guys where actually "Evil". There was much more to it than the anime. You might be wondering why should I care about the mangas we are talking about the anime. The answer is in this video http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7yQBqrzhd8A . The guy in the video explains why the anime is like it is and why Ash is ten. Hope this helps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Bluelatios* View Post
    I think the main problem lies with misinterpreting Pokemon's marketing potential. Pokemon has always been a kids show, but it doesn't need to be treated as such at every corner. You have to consider how to lengthen the average loyalty of the viewer, and the quality of the plot, dialogue, and characters determines that. By creating content merely equivalent to the general public's expectations of a "kids show", the show will fail to go much beyond that. When Pokemon anime begins efforts to actually exceed expectations again, then the dialogue will likely improve.
    Here's to hoping Pokemon International will reconsider hiring the main cast members. *knocks wine glass* That would really help exceed expectations at this point.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dwail8023 View Post
    Here's to hoping Pokemon International will reconsider hiring the main cast members. *knocks wine glass* That would really help exceed expectations at this point.
    But that has nothing to do with the dialogue which is just translated from the Japanese version.

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    Absolutely. It's just repetitive, slow, and contains too many bad jokes.
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    I haven't paid attention to the script in a long time (I didn't need to) xD I know they put some thought (or did) into Dento's speak...I mean you actually have to sit down and think about what he says. ._.

    I found this dialogue funny (just giving a BW example. I can think of some more, but I haven't paid attention to BW2 epis 5-whatever epi is out. I haven't had the time or felt like it).

    Arata/Doyle: Just think we'll be able to crack the case pretty soon! (or something like that)
    Jenny: Arata! This isn't a detective game, those Audino were kidnapped!
    Dento: *tips hat* u_u Exactly!
    Iris: >.> The same applies for you...
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    Quote Originally Posted by gohan5 View Post
    But that has nothing to do with the dialogue which is just translated from the Japanese version.
    True, just tossing that idea around. I can dream, can't I?
    But back on topic, I find both the JPN and TPCi scripts lifeless (gets hammered by weeaboos). I know they are translated from the JPN version (a lot is changed just like the 4Kids dub did) but there's no interesting spark, exciting stuff like "Flaming Moltres" anymore, it's just fancy alliterations with no contextual support for their worth under TPCi. It's forced comedy and it doesn't work at all. That's actually one of the things 4Kids made better to me (trampled)...I quite liked more than a bland translation with the only comedy being "Grabbing Ho!" and "I'm blooming bigger than a dozen roses!," for example. They made it...yeah you heard me...4Kids made it better in this way. I've seen the JPN version from BW001 up until the present day too, and I actually do not enjoy it as much as the 4Kids dub in terms of scripting and dialogue (is nailed shut in coffin and people ask me if I like sandwiches instead of onigiri and music replacement, which I do not) XD.
    Last edited by PokemonNation2000; 23rd October 2012 at 1:47 AM.
    Opinions Regarding the Pokémon:
    1. Anime: OS > AG > BW > DP > XY
    2. Movies: OS = AG > DP = BW = XY
    3. English Dub: 4Kids Entertainment/TAJ Productions (EP001-EP276; AG001-AG020) = 4Kids Entertainment (AG021-AG145) = TPCi/SDI Media (The Origin)/Very Good > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (BW)/Poor > PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions (AG146-AG192)/Very Poor > TPCi/DuArt Film & Video (XY) = PUSA/TPCi/TAJ Productions/DuArt Film & Video (DP)/Atrocious
    4. Games: XY > BW1 > BW2 > RSE > GSC > Y > HGSS > DP > RBG
    5. Pokémon: The Origin: Excellent: 93/100.
    6. Manga: RS > RB > Y > FRLG > XY > BW > E > DP > GSC
    "It's like with each new Generation, Dogasu becomes an even bigger idiot than he was the last Generation." - Kalos Adventurer

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