Page 7 of 22 FirstFirst ... 3456789101117 ... LastLast
Results 151 to 175 of 535

Thread: •Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

  1. #151
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    576

    Default

    OMG we got stickied!!
    It was simple, really. Joe seemed really cool about the idea. We're also getting a name change, so look out for that

    Yeah I think we should keep pokemon like gurdurr and conkeldurr separate tierings, or maybe not even tier conkeldurr atall.
    I dunno, even if we do tier NFE Pokemon, they'll more often be the same thing as their fully evolved counterparts, just with less stats.

    I'll edit the OP with complete approvals when I get access to a computer, by god I am not doing all that on an iPod

    [1/3] High Krookodile. It's decent-at-best midgame is the main holdback factor. That, and it only has Dig / Bulldoze for Ground STAB until really late.

    EDIT : Done with the OP Update!
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 27th October 2012 at 2:16 AM.

  2. #152
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Location
    Drangleic
    Posts
    8,943

    Default

    Eviolite electabuzz and magmar are pretty useful since they are both faster than there evolved counterparts.

  3. #153
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    On Earth
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Roserade - High to Middle-high Tier
    Lostlorn Forest - Midgame
    Notable Moves - Giga Drain, Stun Spore, Leech Seed, Petal Dance, Energy Ball.
    Stats - Great Sp. Atk, Good Sp. Def and Speed, poor remaining stats.

    - Description -
    With Petal Dance alone, Roserade can plow through most Pokemon in one hit before they can KO Roserade, as early as caught, it will have Giga Drain 1 level away or already have it. It dosent fare well at all against Elesa (when you catch it), and Skyla, but it hurts Clay and Marlon becomes almost a joke (Jellicent can survive Petal Dance, but a positive nature may assure its death.)

    +Learns Petal Dance at level 37 in BW2 (in BW, it wasnt until level 40.)
    +Petal Dance plows through most Trainers easily, and Non-Poison type Pokemon owned by Plasma are wiped out.
    +Has some utility in Leech Seed, Toxic (If you go that far) and Stun Spore (Grasswistle is too inaccurate.)
    +Can switch out of a match up if your set to Switch and is stuck on Petal Dance, or confused after a sweep.
    +Somewhat bulky on the Special side: takes most Electric and Water moves easily.
    -Unless your get it from a dust cloud, a Shiny Stone to evolve Roselia isnt gained untill as early as Daydren.
    -Doesnt do well with 2/4 of the Gyms after capture
    -Not too many notable moves
    -Not-so-good offensive STAB, which are only Grass-Type moves.
    -Frail physically
    Last edited by Shuckster; 27th October 2012 at 3:57 AM.
    B/W FC: 0862 7496 5200


    (^Credit to Abagoora^)
    Art:Unvailable
    I can do one art project at a time JUST FOR MY CLAN! Note its done when its done, no deadlines and WAIT!
    See DevART for examples, No Animations!

    If I ever sound mean, make a mistake, or break a rule, please be kind as to tell me before the trouble, I'd be glad to fix my mistake

    Im not tolerant of others, im accepting of others!

    I gots a Flipnote account! Click!

    I Has A DeviantART! Click!

  4. #154
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,423

    Default

    ^ Roserade should have Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball as notable moves for some coverage imo

    [2/3] Krookodile in High, [3/3] Delibird in Bottom, [3/3] Clefable in Low, [2/3] Dunsparce in Lower-mid.

    Also yes I definitely think things like Gurdurr and Conkeldurr should be tiered separately.

    And this may seem strange but I'd like to bring up Watchog. atm it's already been tiered and approved in Bottom; however, I think it might fit better in Low. It really outclasses all of the other Pokemon in Bottom imo. Super Fang (that's the one that halves HP, right?) is pretty useful and early Crunch, Return and Hypnosis are great. It evolves early, it's available early and it does pretty well for the first few gyms. (Also, js but my brother sort of swept through Elesa with Super Fang + Crunch on a Watchog which was ~5 levels underlevelled...). I think Bottom should be reserved for the Pokemon that have absolutely no use, that are just horrible, and I really think that Watchog is slightly better than horrible, enough that it warrants a place in Low.

  5. #155
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Frisco, Dallas, Texas
    Posts
    2,163

    Default

    I 3/3 Krookodile in High. I agree with Watchog on Low. It can be tough to deal with, with Confuse Ray and Hypnosis and Super Fang.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

    - TI, Ready For Whatever
    Paper Trail.

  6. #156
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    576

    Default

    Roserade should have Sludge Bomb and Shadow Ball as notable moves for some coverage imo
    Roserade unfortunately doesn't get Sludge Bomb until postgane. It's only notable coverage move is Shadow Ball. tbh I'm on the fence with this one, it could work ways. That said, it should be a tier below Lilligant imo

    Also yes I definitely think things like Gurdurr and Conkeldurr should be tiered separately
    Ehh, I dunno. They'll probably be a tier below their older siblings with pretty much the same agruments.

    And this may seem strange but I'd like to bring up Watchog. atm it's already been tiered and approved in Bottom; however, I think it might fit better in Low. It really outclasses all of the other Pokemon in Bottom imo. Super Fang (that's the one that halves HP, right?) is pretty useful and early Crunch, Return and Hypnosis are great. It evolves early, it's available early and it does pretty well for the first few gyms. (Also, js but my brother sort of swept through Elesa with Super Fang + Crunch on a Watchog which was ~5 levels underlevelled...). I think Bottom should be reserved for the Pokemon that have absolutely no use, that are just horrible, and I really think that Watchog is slightly better than horrible, enough that it warrants a place in Low.
    In hindsight, I actually agree with this. It has one of the best earlygames imo. [1/3] for Bottom -> Low

    Lapras - (Upper) Middle Tier
    Availability - Mid-Late (Village Bridge)
    Notable Moves - Surf, Ice Beam, Thunderbolt, Psychic, Drill Run, Return, Waterfall

    +Found just in time to destroy Drayden's Gym with STAB Ice Beam (Lv. 32)
    +Has great bulk, supported by a decent Defensive typing
    +Gets pure BoltBeam
    -Lackluster Offensive stats mean it won't be scoring OHKOs that others may
    -Doesn't particularly shine after the Drayden Battle

    Editted the OP with Krookodile, Clefable and lolDelibird! We're making some good progess here!
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 27th October 2012 at 5:10 AM.

  7. #157
    Join Date
    Oct 2012
    Posts
    3

    Default



    Nidoking - High Tier
    Availability - Very late (after elite 4)
    Notable Moves - Earth Power, Megahorn, Thunderbolt, Earthquake, Sludge Wave, Sludge Bomb, Stone Edge, Surf, Aqua Tail, Dragon Pulse, Ice Beam, Flame Thrower

    + Very very versatile, amazing move pool
    + Decent stats, with Sheer Force its moves power is always > 100
    + Great STAB with Earth Power, Sludge Wave
    - Can only capture after elite 4, which is very late.
    My Black 2 Pokemon

  8. #158
    Join Date
    Oct 2008
    Location
    Melbourne, Australia
    Posts
    2,423

    Default

    ^ we're only tiering Pokemon that can be obtained in the main game (ie before battling the E4).

    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    Roserade unfortunately doesn't get Sludge Bomb until postgane. It's only notable coverage move is Shadow Ball. tbh I'm on the fence with this one, it could work ways. That said, it should be a tier below Lilligant imo
    Whoops, my bad, I was going by the list in the OP which has Sludge Bomb listed. :s

    Ehh, I dunno. They'll probably be a tier below their older siblings with pretty much the same agruments.
    Well it wouldn't really hurt to tier both, would it?

    re: Lapras, would we be penalising it for its low appearance rate (5% in shaking water spots iirc)?

  9. #159
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    576

    Default

    Whoops, my bad, I was going by the list in the OP which has Sludge Bomb listed. :s
    No, you're right. It should be accessible within the maingame. Derp.

    re: Lapras, would we be penalising it for its low appearance rate (5% in shaking water spots iirc)?
    Possibly. Finding the said spots themself aren't all that difficult if you spray Repels, and it doesn't have Metang's catch rate... I'll leave it up to the others.

  10. #160
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    On Earth
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    Roserade unfortunately doesn't get Sludge Bomb until postgane. It's only notable coverage move is Shadow Ball. tbh I'm on the fence with this one, it could work ways. That said, it should be a tier below Lilligant imo
    Lilligant and Roserade are different, with the same Speed otherwise.

    Lilligant can set up the wonderful Quiver Dance, While Roserade hits harder off the bat.
    Lilligant cant be confused due to Own Tempo, Roserade can heal from any status due to Natural Cure.
    Lilligant has Sleep Powder, Roserade doesent.
    Lilligant has higher Defense, Roserade has much better Sp. Def (Lilligant can offeset this with Quiver Dance, and Roserade resists Fighting and x1/4 to Grass)
    Lilligant has only one type, Roserade has two (It can be good or bad, depending on how you look at it.)
    Lilligant is prone to any status, Roserade is immune to Poisoning, and Natural Cures any Paralysis, Burn, or Sleep it may have.

    See? They both have their advantages and disadvantages. Consider this: I used a neutral-natured Roserade late ingame (before Daydren) and it had Petal Dance. Even if it was caught late, it was very powerful, KOing many Pokemon along the way, esp. Marlon, who was overkill, and that without too much support.
    B/W FC: 0862 7496 5200


    (^Credit to Abagoora^)
    Art:Unvailable
    I can do one art project at a time JUST FOR MY CLAN! Note its done when its done, no deadlines and WAIT!
    See DevART for examples, No Animations!

    If I ever sound mean, make a mistake, or break a rule, please be kind as to tell me before the trouble, I'd be glad to fix my mistake

    Im not tolerant of others, im accepting of others!

    I gots a Flipnote account! Click!

    I Has A DeviantART! Click!

  11. #161
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    576

    Default

    ^Notes, noted. You bring up valid points

    Jolteon - Lower Middle Tier
    Availability - Nimbasa City
    Notable Moves - Discharge, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Thunder Wave, Hyper Voice
    Stats - Fantastic SpA and Blistering Spe. Noteable SpD and below average everywhere else

    +Guaranteed to set up a Thuner Wave to support it's team
    +It's great offensive stats let it sweep easily if given the chance
    -Has no Special STAB move until Discharge (Lv. 37) unless the user is willing to cope with Volt Switch forcing it to switch after every use
    -Frail as heck on the Physical. A kill-or-be-killed in that regard
    -Somewhat lacking Special Movepool
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 27th October 2012 at 6:57 AM.

  12. #162
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Northwest England
    Posts
    3,997

    Default

    Lapras for Upper-Middle [1/3]. 130-80-95 defences cannot be overlooked.
    Jolteon for Lower-Middle [1/3]. The Eeveelution Curse of having a terrible movepool really hit Jolteon hard.


    It should probably be noted that in 10 days(well 9 days and 22 hours) we've done 42 tierings. There's about 250-something viable pokemon in the Unova pokedex, and approximately half of those are fully-evolved. If we keep going at this rate we'll be done by mid-November.
    Last edited by Aurath8; 27th October 2012 at 10:56 AM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  13. #163
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    576

    Default

    It should probably be noted that in 10 days(well 9 days and 22 hours) we've done 42 tierings. There's about 250-something viable pokemon in the Unova pokedex, and approximately half of those are fully-evolved. If we keep going at this rate we'll be done by mid-November.
    Tell me about it, this is going by really quickly, isn't it? I'd like to have every Pokemon re-evaluated after completing the initial tiering, so maybe Late-November~Early-December?

    EDIT : I've removed Watchog's Re-Tiering approval because I'd like to save Retiering until we're done with the initial tiering. Thoughts?
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 27th October 2012 at 11:13 AM.

  14. #164
    Join Date
    Sep 2009
    Location
    london, England GMT
    Posts
    320

    Default

    Lapras for upper middle [2/3] Bolt-beam.

    @jolteon, I can't help think that 110 sp.atk and 130 speed shouldn't be over looked and it should be middle atleast. I suppose the poor movepool lets it down no STAB move till lvl37 means she will just be dead weight.

    eh although it feels weird because of its competitive tiering.
    Jolteon for lower middle [2/3]

    White FC: 2666 1277 6544
        Spoiler:- Credit & Trade offers:

  15. #165
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Northwest England
    Posts
    3,997

    Default

    Roserade for Upper-Middle[1/3]. It doesn't have the best coverage without Hidden Power, but certainly is a very powerful attacker and evolves right after Clay via Shiny Stone on Route 6.


    Conkeldurr - Top Tier
    Availability - Early-Mid(Relic Passage)
    Notable Moves - Bulk Up, Drain Punch, Hammer Arm, Rock Slide, Ice Punch, Payback
    Stats - Devastating attack, high HP and defence, low special stats and very low speed.

    - Description -

    +Can reach its final evo as early as lvl 25 and be almost twice as hard-hitting and twice as bulky as just about anything in the midgame.
    +Gains valuable moves like Rock Slide and Bulk Up through levelup.
    -Requires trading to reach full potential.
    -Stuck with Wake-Up Slap, a fairly weak STAB, until lvl 45.
    -Low speed means it will have tank a lot of hits during its sweeps.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  16. #166
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    576

    Default

    I'm on the fence with Conkeldurr tbh. Only 60BP/10PP mean it'll have PP issues for the longer Routes. That being said, it's ridiculous potential makes it a contender for Top. It also faces the same problem in Emboar where using it's endgame STAB guarantees it gets outsped by everything.

  17. #167
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Pokeworld(Nimbasa City)
    Posts
    460

    Default

    Probopass - Lower Middle
    Availability - Mid Game (Chargestone Cave)
    Notable Moves - Power Gem,Flash Cannon,Earth Power,Thunderbolt,Discharge,Thunder Wave,Iron Defense
    Stats - Great Defense and Sp.Defense , Pathetic Speed and Attack

    -Description-

    +Great Tank able to take many hits
    +Decent Sp.Attack to do some damage
    +Helpful against the upcoming gym leaders
    -4x weaknesses against Fighting and Ground means it will have hard time against them
    -Almost all Pokemon can outspeed it due to its pathetic speed.
    -Doesn't get Flash Cannon until Twist Mountain(post-game) unless trading from Black/White
        Spoiler:- Completed and Current Playthroughs:

  18. #168
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    On Earth
    Posts
    14

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    ^Notes, noted. You bring up valid points

    Jolteon - Lower Middle Tier
    Availability - Nimbasa City
    Notable Moves - Discharge, Thunderbolt, Shadow Ball, Signal Beam, Thunder Wave, Hyper Voice
    Stats - Fantastic SpA and Blistering Spe. Noteable SpD and below average everywhere else

    +Guaranteed to set up a Thuner Wave to support it's team
    +It's great offensive stats let it sweep easily if given the chance
    -Has no Special STAB move until Discharge (Lv. 37) unless the user is willing to cope with Volt Switch forcing it to switch after every use
    -Frail as heck on the Physical. A kill-or-be-killed in that regard
    -Somewhat lacking Special Movepool
    I think this a fair Tier placement For Jolteon.

    As for Roserade, know its probably not Top Tier, but I am sure its High Tier material. In Imgame Tiers, I dont think a Pokemon shouldnt be based on the fact there is a supposedly-better choice if it can be very useful also. Lowering Roserade based on the fact Lilligant can do a similar job isnt right, as both of them have their advantages/disadvantages.
    Last edited by Shuckster; 27th October 2012 at 5:31 PM.
    B/W FC: 0862 7496 5200


    (^Credit to Abagoora^)
    Art:Unvailable
    I can do one art project at a time JUST FOR MY CLAN! Note its done when its done, no deadlines and WAIT!
    See DevART for examples, No Animations!

    If I ever sound mean, make a mistake, or break a rule, please be kind as to tell me before the trouble, I'd be glad to fix my mistake

    Im not tolerant of others, im accepting of others!

    I gots a Flipnote account! Click!

    I Has A DeviantART! Click!

  19. #169
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    576

    Default

    Imo Probopass could go low. It's Defenses are rendered obsolete when you realize it can't deal decent damage.

    @Shuckster: I partially agree with this. Yes, a Pokemon's tiering shouldn't be based on a different Pokemon's if both sides have respective redeeming qualities, I think a Pokemon should be compared to another when there's a Pokemon that can play the exact same role better

  20. #170
    Join Date
    Mar 2011
    Location
    On Earth
    Posts
    14

    Default

    ^ Thats true, I agree with that. ^
    B/W FC: 0862 7496 5200


    (^Credit to Abagoora^)
    Art:Unvailable
    I can do one art project at a time JUST FOR MY CLAN! Note its done when its done, no deadlines and WAIT!
    See DevART for examples, No Animations!

    If I ever sound mean, make a mistake, or break a rule, please be kind as to tell me before the trouble, I'd be glad to fix my mistake

    Im not tolerant of others, im accepting of others!

    I gots a Flipnote account! Click!

    I Has A DeviantART! Click!

  21. #171
    Join Date
    Oct 2011
    Location
    Pokeworld(Nimbasa City)
    Posts
    460

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    Imo Probopass could go low. It's Defenses are rendered obsolete when you realize it can't deal decent damage.
    Its offenses aren't that low.Its Sp.Attack is IMO decent.When I checked its Sp.Attack is equal to that of Serperior.And while Serperior has the speed and moves to set up which Probopass doesn't have,it does have the Defenses to tank.I am using one and its doing a decent job so far.
        Spoiler:- Completed and Current Playthroughs:

  22. #172
    Join Date
    Oct 2010
    Location
    Italy
    Posts
    141

    Default

    Petilil - Top Tier
    Availability - Early-mid game (Castelia City in pokemon White 2, trade in Route 4 in pokemon Black 2)
    Notable Moves - Sleep Powder, Quiver Dance, Giga Drain, Petal Dance, Leech Seed
    Stats - Decent bulk on both sides, high Special Attack and good Speed, low attack

    - Description -
    It gets the right moves within a few levels. The only things it can't do anything against are Sap Sipper pokemon, else you can AT LEAST sleep and/or Leech Seed them, meaning free setup for yourself with Quiver Dance or for your team mates if you switch out. Maybe it's personal, but I've found this thing to be really, really useful.

    + Caught relatively early
    + While weak, you can evolve it at level 26 after it learns Giga Drain. Which is a relatively short time after you've captured one.
    + Plows through ANYTHING that doesn't resist Grass, and after a few boosts, even anything resisting it
    + Early game Sleep Powder helps a lot as well as Leech Seed
    + Clay is a joke
    + If you play Black 2 and you trade for it, you will get an awesome Timid nature and close to max IVs on EVERY stat.
    + Petal Dance + Own Tempo makes for a really cool gimmick ingame
    + Can set up on and sweep all of the Elite 4 barring the Champion.
    - "Useless" (Grass resisted) against most Gym leaders. Can still put something to sleep and allow a teammate to setup though.
    - Bad coverage unless you use Hidden Power (Can someone tell me what's the hidden power for the traded Petilil? IVs are the same so it should be the same. If it's Rock/Fire/Ice, this should go Top without question) or the gimmicky Dream Eater
    - First stage is pretty weak

    Oh I don't know, I can hardly find flaws for this. It's cute as hell too. The traded one has competitive IVs as a bonus. You can put to sleep that magneton, set up some quiver dances and sweep colress' team with resisted petal dance (this generally works for any tranier that should "wall" you, especially those with special attacker. Random trainers are a joke, Sleep Power helps catching stuff being the best catchrate boosting status aliment in the game.

  23. #173
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Location
    Northwest England
    Posts
    3,997

    Default

    Well Lilligant is pretty much limited entirely to its STAB moves. More accurately, its offensive movepool consists of Petal Dance, Giga Drain, Hidden Power and...Dream Eater(which sucks).
    I'll put Lilligant in High [1/3]. The fact it needs 1-3 turns to setup and a nonexistent movepool really hurts it, but after said setup in can plow through almost anything with Petal Dance.


    Quote Originally Posted by amittal12
    Its offenses aren't that low.Its Sp.Attack is IMO decent.When I checked its Sp.Attack is equal to that of Serperior.And while Serperior has the speed and moves to set up which Probopass doesn't have,it does have the Defenses to tank.I am using one and its doing a decent job so far.
    Tanking hits doesn't change the fact you're doing scratch damage to the opponent. Serperior can boost its stats with a range of moves or otherwise bypass them entirely with Leech Seed and Giga Drain slowly wearing down the opponent while keeping Serp healthy.
    Probopass doesn't have that luxury, and even with such high defences and you'll end up doing similarly small damage to your opponent.
    I'm going to go ahead and say Probopass for Lower-Mid anyway[1/3]. The Steel typing lends a ton of resistances and it has a fairly impressive levelup movepool.
    Last edited by Aurath8; 28th October 2012 at 2:37 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

  24. #174

    Default

    i'd like to suggest changing darmanitan from top tier to high tier. here's why:

    • "Perfect availability, completely destroying Burgh" - i disagree with this, simply because you get it as a darumaka which doesn't destroy anything. darmanitan would nail him, sure, but darumaka probably won't be able to touch a gym leader just after being caught - especially when it won't actually get fire punch unless you're prepared to go to the effort of training it several levels. not to mention the fact that it can only deal with two of burugh's pokémon; dwebble still probably beats it. it'd be more time efficient to just have the rest of your team slightly stronger and to catch darumaka after you've beaten the gym honestly. ...which brings me onto the next point,

    • it's caught as darumaka. and stays that way for almost 15-20 levels, depending on where exactly you catch it. that just screams of a training nightmare especially when, at this early point in the game, you've got access to neither the lucky egg nor the exp share. it almost seems like something which'd just be a hassle and end up boxed until you're able to actually use training items on it. even worse, darumaka has hustle of all abilities to deal with. it's really hard to train early game.

    • it's not got much use in gyms. as a darumaka, it's probably not going to be doing anything particularly special against elesa and darminitan will have nightmares with clay. it's not bad against skyla, but falls flat on its face when confronted with dragons against draydon and is utterly destroyed by marlon.

    • darminitan has unsuitable stabs. it's got a monster attack stat but all it's really able to do with it is use the half-arsed fire punch or totally over the top flare blitz - neither of which do it any favours at all. it's simply not got the bulk and has too relentless an attack stat to constantly use flare blitz and fire punch really drags it down.

    • mediocre supporting attacks. hammer arm really hinders it since it has a decent speed but horrible defences and potential recoil from flare blitz; as such it honestly can't afford to be slowed down. rock slide is alright but lacking in accuracy and i don't really know how actually accessible that move is anyway. bulldoze is alright but does little to complement its typing and is lackluster in power. it's more or less relying 90% of the time on one of its two flawed stabs.

    basically what i'm seeing here is a pokémon which, despite its monster attack stat, is hindered by an inflexible and shaky movepool which has only mediocre use through gyms and is a nightmare to get in the first place. its attack stat alone stops me from wanting to bring it lower but honestly i'm seeing it as a pokémon suited to mid-late game which is simply caught early. i'd say to shift it to high.

  25. #175
    Join Date
    Feb 2008
    Location
    Virginia, USA
    Posts
    1,936

    Default

    I can agree with that. Very good points and worth considering. Welcome back son

    Also, nom nom nom Alex for cert [1/2]

    ^Click it!^

Page 7 of 22 FirstFirst ... 3456789101117 ... LastLast

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •