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Thread: •Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

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    Default •Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

    Pokemon Black / White 2
    In Game Tiers Thread

    What are In Game Tiers?
    The In Game Tiers are SPPf’s attempt to rank each Pokemon within the Unova Dex based on how useful they are throughout the course of the main game. The applies to everything plot-based that occurs until the first Iris Battle at the end of the League. Each Pokemon will be tiered based on several criterias.

    What are these Criterias?

    • Availability – How early can a Pokemon be obtained? How long does it take upon capture to become a relevant member if your party?
    • Movepool – How diverse is a Pokemon’s movepool? Does it have all the moves it needs to readily fuction as a part of your team, or does it lack the moves to pull it’s own weight? How early does it get said moves?
    • Stats – How well-versed are a Pokemon’s stats? Does it have the stats it needs to be to become a fast sweeper, or a tank that can endure hits well enough? Does it specilize in one particular stat, or can it function in multiple roles?
    • Major Battles – How well does a Pokemon fare in each of the Major Battles it partakes in? Does it play a critical role in any particular battle, or does it serve a support role?
    • Efficiency - How efficient is a Pokemon? Does it sweep teams with little toruble? Does it require some form of setup for real offensive presence? Does it forgoe fast-paced battles for more stalling?
    • Synergy - How well can a Pokemon fit into a team? Does it fit into any team with relatively little trouble? Or does it need support from certain teammates for it to really work?


    How Many Tiers will be used?
    This particular thread will use Seven diferent Tiers. They are as below

    • Top
    • High
    • Upper Middle
    • Middle
    • Lower Middle
    • Low
    • Bottom


    How will a Tiering be determined eligible for addition to the OP
    A Post needs to fulfil three criterias to be added to the OP

    • It has to be affirmed by three other members of the forums
    • One of these three approvers must be a Certified Poster. An approval must have a number next to it. Otherwise it will not be counted towards the general approval number
    • It must follow the following format


    HTML Code:
    [B]Pokemon Name[/B] - [B]Suggested Tier[/B]
    [B]Availability[/B] -
    [B]Notable Moves[/B] - 
    [B]Stats[/B] - 
    
    +Pro
    +Pro
    -Con
    -Con
    Do note that the number of Pros / Cons may vary.

    Certified Posters?
    Basically the thread’s version of Moderators. That being said, they aren’t all that different from regular posters save the above mentioned function. The current Certified Posters are Tsumiki, zhanton, Noctourniquet, [GS] Creeper and Aurath8

    New CP’s can be added, but they must be nominated by a CP. Don’t ask to be one, we’ll ask you if we feel you deserve the spot.

    Which Pokemon are (not) Eligible for rating
    + The Last Pokemon from each Evolution Chain
    + Legendaries that are obtainable within the main plot
    - Event-Only Legenaries
    - Hidden Hollow / Dream World Ability Pokemon*
    - Dream Radar Pokemon
    *Mincinno from the Hidden Hollow in Route 5 and the Braviary / Mandibuzz found in Route 4 are exceptions to this rule

    Other General Help Stuff

    List of TM / HM found within the Main Game
        Spoiler:- List:


    List of Pokemon found Ingame in Order of Appearance
        Spoiler:- List:


    List of Ongoing Approvals

    • Altaria - Low [2/3] (Excitable Boy, Zhanton)
    • Escavalier - Middle [2/3] (Aurarth8, Zhanton)) / Upper Middle [1/3] (Tsumiki)
    • Bisharp - Bottom [1/3] (Zhanton)
    • Mantine - Bottom [2/3] (Zhanton, edonub)
    • Claydol - Low [2/3] (Zhanton, edonub)
    • Waillord - Low [2/3] (Aurath8, edonub)
    • Drifblim - Low [1/3] (Zhanton) / Lower Middle [2/3] (Aura Sensei, [GS])
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 26th August 2013 at 4:22 PM.

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    Top Tier
        Spoiler:- Top Tier List:


    High Tier
        Spoiler:- High Tier List:


    Upper Middle Tier
        Spoiler:- Upper Middle Tier List:


    Middle Tier
        Spoiler:- Middle Tier List:
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 17th August 2013 at 10:02 AM.

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    Lower Middle Tier
        Spoiler:- Lower Middle Tier List:


    Low Tier
        Spoiler:- Low Tier List:


    Bottom Tier
        Spoiler:- Bottom Tier List:
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 29th July 2013 at 2:59 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by azeem40 View Post
    What do you mean by "Certified Poster"?
    Well, as explained in the OP, at least one of us has to nominate a tiering for it to be eligible. This ensures the quality of the tierings we add since all the current certs are well-established raters(and hopefully anyone else we add).
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    Ya know how to make spoilers, right?
        Spoiler:- Spoiler title:

    [*SPOILER=Spoiler title] Spoiler contents [/SPOILER] without the *

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    how many people do you think will actually take the time to contribute to this?

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    ^

    a group of raters once tried to do this for the battle tower, didn't work. and for normal in-game playthroughs tiering is even more useless.

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    Well I might as well kick things off with a the tiering that everyone saw coming.

    Magnezone - Top
    Availability - Early (before 2nd Gym)
    Notable Moves - Discharge, Thunderbolt, Flash Cannon, Signal Beam, Thunderwave, Sonicboom
    Stats - High SpA, great defences, decent speed

    The Magnemite line is just brilliant. You catch it before battling the second Gym-leader; Magnemite can defeat Roxie with very few problems thanks to its Poison-type immunity and the fact that Sonicboom is immensely powerful early in the game. It also dominates Burgh with Sonicboom. Although it has trouble against Elesa and Clay, especially given it starts to lag behind while still a Magnemite in the high 20s, it is likely to evolve into Magneton around Clay and then Magnezone in Chargestone Cave, upon which it truly shines. It demolishes Skyla and Marlon, as well as Drayden thanks to its plethora of resistances and paralysis support. He also faces trouble against Marshal in the Elite Four, but apart from that the combination of his many resistances, bulk, Sturdy ability and amazing base 130 Special Attack mean it will be sweeping through the game with ease.

    + Available early
    + Dominates almost all Gym Leaders
    + Great stats and typing
    + Sturdy is a great ability
    - Lags behind around Elesa before it evolves into Magneton

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    Magmortar - High
    Availability - Early (Before 2nd Gym)
    Notable Moves - Flamethrower , Thunderbolt , Focus Miss , Lava Plume , Psychic
    Stats High SpA , good Atk and good SpD and decent Speed.

    The Magby line is essentially one of the best Fire Type Lines in the Main Story of BW2 , since you can catch it before the 2nd Gym and it has the Ability to go Physical or Special and be sucessful. It can help against Roxie's Whirlipede with Ember , does well against Burgh , but really does a little bit better near the end of the game. It also has above Average SpA to make use of Moves like Flamethrower and Thunderbolt. Flame Body , can be useful for Gym Leaders like Drayden too.

    + Available early
    + Good stats
    - Shallow Movepool
    - Doesn't do well against Marlon or Clay.
    I'm feelin' electric tonight
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    Got my bad baby by my heavenly side
    I know if I go, I'll die happy tonight

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    ^ Magmar does not have a shallow movepool at all.
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

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    I agree with Magnemite's tiering [1/3]

    However with Magmortar, isn't the Magamrizer found Late/Postgame? If so, you're stuck with Magmar for a good portion of the game. You're also stuck with a Magby until Lv. 30. Upper-Middle, if not flat out middle imo.

    Sigilyph - Upper-Mid Tier
    Availability - Mid-Game (Desert Resort)
    Notable Moves - Psybeam, Air Cutter, Psychic, Air Slash, Shadow Ball, Heat Wave, Chare Beam, Cosmic Powe, Signal Beam, Ice Beam, Reflect, Light Screen
    Stats - Good SpA and Above-Average Spe. Painfully average on other stats.

    Sigilyph is a mixed bag. On one hand, it has one of amongst the wider movepools in the game (look at it's notable moves) and has the right stats to use them. *It also has one of the best abilities in the game with Magic Guard, which gives it immunity from the much too common Poison Status ailment. It's wide movepool lets it adapt to whatever your team needs. Need something to help with Iris? Give it Ice Beam. Lacking some Firepower? Slap Heat Wave on it. This means that Sigilyph will never feel redundant on your team and will always be doing something to support you.

    On the other, it shines against none of the main battles in the plot save E4 Marshall and has trouble with the Steel types that Team Plasma love to carry with them unless you invest in Heat Wave. It's somewhat middling defenses mean that it won't be taking too many hits in the endgame. Couple that with the fact that it's pretty much with it's STABs until the last third of the game, and you'll see it's not all sunshine and rainbows for Sigilyph

    +Has one of the best Movepools in the game
    +Magic Guard
    -Barely sees use in major battles as a main fighter
    -Middling defenses spell trouble for it endgame
    -Relies on it's STAB for a good portion of the game
    Last edited by Tsumiki; 19th October 2012 at 12:18 PM.

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    Seconding Magnezone's tiering [2/3].

    However with Magmortar, isn't the Magamrizer found Late/Postgame? If so, you're stuck with Magmar for a good portion of the game. You're also stuck with a Magby until Lv. 30. Upper-Middle, if not flat out middle imo.
    Yep, the Magmarizer is on the Plasma Frigate, and of course you'll need to trade as well.
    Magby does really begin to get left behind once you reach the lvl 20s and its bad defence becomes more apparent. Useful early on against Roxie and Burgh, but Clay, Drayden and Marlon make it progressively harder for him to hold is weight on the team.
    While a good pokemon in it's own right, Magmortar faces stiff competition from fellow early Fire types Arcanine and Darmanitan who boast similar stats , superior abilities and are just more convenient to raise. I'd put in Upper-Mid at best.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    Darumaka - Top
    Availability - Route 4 (early)
    Notable Moves - Flare blitz, fire punch, rock slide, superpower
    Stats Insane 145 attack / decent speed

    - Description -
    You get this fella really early and he's useful from the word go. Level 19 is fire punch which gets boosted from hustle. This will be the only move you need for the rest of the game. Burgh gets whipped by darumaka and although this is the only useful gym for darumaka, having 145 base attack and sheer force when it becomes darmanitan you can rely on it to be your hard hitting pokemon for the whole of the game. Definitely top tier as it also outclasses Flareon/Emboar/Chandelure.

    +Get it early on
    +Flare blitz level 33
    +Sheer force and 145 base attack wrecks even bulky pokes with neutral hits
    -Hustle can leave you missing loads, but worth the attack boost
    -Recoil from flare blitz


    Riolu - Top
    Availability - Flocessy ranch (very early)
    Notable Moves - Close combat, ice punch, force palm, dark pulse, extremespeed, aura sphere
    Stats good sp. atk and atk. Decent speed

    - Description -
    You can catch Riolu before the first gym. Although force palm has been nerfed to lvl 15 in BW2 he still is useful to back up your starter. If you use riolu enough and don't let him faint to much you'll have a Lucario at lvl 20. Lucario's only STAB move is force palm until level 51 were he gets aura sphere however Lucario gets lots of other useful moves as well. Ice punch is useful for taking out drayden (dragon gym) and despite not being too useful against any of the gyms, Lucario is really useful in dealing with trainers and his steel typing helps massively.

    +Varied movepool
    +Steel typing
    +Get riolu early
    +Great stats
    +Useful in many situations
    -Not overly useful for gyms
    -Force palm only STAB till lvl 51


    Eevee (vaporeon) - upper-middle
    Availability - Early eevee but little later for vaporeon
    Notable Moves - Surf, Shadow ball, toxic, ice beam, aqua ring
    Stats amazing HP (130), great Special attack (110)

    - Description -
    You can get an Eevee relatively early when you get access to the sewers. However vaporeon in not available until battle subway at least which requires a round on the singles train to get (3BP) or you can wait until after clay to get a waterstone. Battle subway took me a number of attempts to get through as movesets were still lacking on my pokemon as it was quite early on. This grind or delay bewteen getting eevee and evolving it into a useful pokemon really makes it drop from high tier to upper middle. Other than that it is a great pokemon, extremely bulky and can take hits very well. Vaporeon is the pokemon I tend to switch into to take hits. Leftovers on this guy combined with aqua ring (wish only available with breeding) makes toxic stalling an option too.

    If you are willing for a short 7 subway battles for 3BP to get a waterstone, it will go high tier. However if you feel this is too much then upper-middle

    +Great HP
    +One of the best water pokemon in BW2
    -Obtained rather late and bit of a grind to get



    I'll rank some more soon
    Last edited by Dragoniteftw; 20th October 2012 at 5:21 PM.

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    Let's not forget Earthquake on Darmanitan.
    I'm feelin' electric tonight
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    Got my bad baby by my heavenly side
    I know if I go, I'll die happy tonight

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    ^Except that Earthquake is found post-game.

    Agree with Darmanitan [1/3]

    imo the lack of STAB until Level 51 should drop Lucario to High, it's too big of a flaw to go unnoticed. It doesn't help that the rest of it's Level Up Movepool is pretty rubbish. You should also mention it has a poweful Return to support it. Not to mention Counter is arguably the best Anti-Cheren measure. I suppose you could also mention Iron Tail for 6 Blue Shards if you really want to. Flash Cannon is a more realistic STAB option, although it's found pretty late. Still, it should be earlier than 51.

    I'd say Upper-Mid for Vaporeon. It doesn't have a STAB to work with until you get Surf. You could invest a Heart Scale in Water Gun, but that's still until Driftveil, so yeah.

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    Thanks for the awesome thread, was curious about the tiers
    Pokemon Black 2 Team



    Pokemon White Team


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    Anti-Cheren?
    In order to understand my train of thoughts,
    you'll have to put yourself in my position. You can't expect me to think like you because my life ain't like yours; You know what I'm sayin?

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    ^Except that Earthquake is found post-game.

    Agree with Darmanitan [1/3]

    imo the lack of STAB until Level 51 should drop Lucario to High, it's too big of a flaw to go unnoticed. It doesn't help that the rest of it's Level Up Movepool is pretty rubbish. You should also mention it has a poweful Return to support it. Not to mention Counter is arguably the best Anti-Cheren measure. I suppose you could also mention Iron Tail for 6 Blue Shards if you really want to. Flash Cannon is a more realistic STAB option, although it's found pretty late. Still, it should be earlier than 51.

    I'd say Upper-Mid for Vaporeon. It doesn't have a STAB to work with until you get Surf. You could invest a Heart Scale in Water Gun, but that's still until Driftveil, so yeah.
    Force palm still isn't a bad move and the para hax is really nice. Brick break is an option for 12BP aswell. I still think that being steel means you can have it at the front of your party to be able to take hits from anything but fire/ground means it's high tier but coupled with the fact you will have lucario from 2nd gym onwards means I think top still. Sword dance comes at level 37 anyway so you can boost and sweep with neutral coverage for E4 and the last two gyms.

    Fair points about Vaporeon upper-mid [1/3]

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    tbh we really shouldn't factor in Battle Subway / PWT rewards as it detracts from a Pokemon's usability. A base 60 BP / 10 PP until Very lategame where most other Pokemon will have their final STAB moves hinder it. Sure, it can get some nice moves via TM and Move Tutors, but it doesn't replace the fact that it's lacking a STAB move.

    Also, may as well go ahead and [2/3] Vaporeon for Upper-Mid x)

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    Quote Originally Posted by FoldingScreen View Post
    tbh we really shouldn't factor in Battle Subway / PWT rewards as it detracts from a Pokemon's usability. A base 60 BP / 10 PP until Very lategame where most other Pokemon will have their final STAB moves hinder it. Sure, it can get some nice moves via TM and Move Tutors, but it doesn't replace the fact that it's lacking a STAB move.

    Also, may as well go ahead and [2/3] Vaporeon for Upper-Mid x)
    I suppose you are right, high tier for lucario [1/3]

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    tbh we really shouldn't factor in Battle Subway / PWT rewards as it detracts from a Pokemon's usability. A base 60 BP / 10 PP until Very lategame where most other Pokemon will have their final STAB moves hinder it. Sure, it can get some nice moves via TM and Move Tutors, but it doesn't replace the fact that it's lacking a STAB move.
    @Lucario discussion: Drain Punch. You get it from the Move tutor in Lentimas town, which is late lvl 30s iirc. I think with that he can reach top-tier with that.

    [2/3] on Darmanitan. Having the strongest Fire attack in the entire in the game does count for a lot.
    Quote Originally Posted by Huspoel View Post
    You're saying some really smart stuff there.

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    Although Darmanitan has one less Gym to knock over in BW2, due to Brycen being replaced by Marlon, he completely dominates Colress and still hits like a truck throughout the game, so I'll give it an approval. [3/3]

    Personally I think it's fine to factor in PWT rewards in the tiering as it's a legitimate method of gaining shards. As for the Battle Subway, not so much since it takes a lot longer to reach a steak of 7 than it does to win three matches/lose on purpose in the PWT.

    @ the person who asked what Anti-Cheren is, it basically means that Counter is the best way of defeating Cheren. Drain Punch is a good point regarding Lucario, and that coupled with the fact that he can work fine with coverage moves in Dig, Bone Rush and very early Return means he's pretty powerful. His plethora of resistances are also very useful, so I think he can fit into top-tier with that.

    Also I can't see Magmortar any higher than Mid, possible Upper-mid at the very best. It faces stiff competition from Growlithe and Darumakka although I don't think other Pokemon should dictate whether a Pokemon is good or not. The fact that it'll be stuck as a Magby until Lv 30 is pretty annoying, and you don't get Magmortar until after the 8th gym so you'll likely be babying it a lot.

    And finally, I'll [3/3] Vaporeon for upper-mid, and I agree with Sigilyph for Upper-mid [1/3].



    -----

    Darmanitan [3/3] - Top (FoldingScreen, AuraWarrior8, zhanton)
    Vaporeon [3/3] - Upper-mid (Dragoniteftw, FoldingScreen, zhanton)
    Magnezone [2/3] - Top (FoldingScreen, AuraWarrior8)
    Sigilyph [1/3] - Upper-mid (zhanton)

    where italics indicate a certified poster

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    Ducklett - Upper-Mid
    Availability - Mid Game (Driftveil Bridge)
    Notable Moves - Surf, Fly, Air Slash, Aqua Ring, Hurricane, Rain Dance, Tailwind, FeatherDance, Roost
    Stats Average. Not amazing, but good for what it's for.

    - Description -

    +Great Team Supporter. Learns the 2 most valuable HMs, along with good Status moves (Tailwind, Featherdance)
    +Can support itself. (Rain Dance, Stab Hurricane, Rain boosted Stab Surf)
    +Easily defeats Clay with Water attacks and immunity to ground.
    -Not amazing Stats.
    -Takes a bit of running around a bridge to find.
    -4x weak to Electric.



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    ^I'd put ducklett as flat mid, it doesn't learn Hurricane till level 55 (if evolved) and there are other water types available that are more reliable. How will good HM slaves be tiered?

    oh god I feel so out of it. I suppose I'll give it a try.

    Azumarill - High
    Availability - early (as azurill)
    Notable Moves - Double Edge, Aqua Tail, Super Power, Ice Punch(with tutor)
    Stats - Fairly bulky, good offense

    - Description -

    +Gets Huge Power and great coverage after receiving Return/Frustration at the first gym. Aqua Tail is a solid STAB if you can get it to evolve fast enough.
    +Solid movepool that doesn't take too much effort to make.
    +Early evolution makes for a great early game.
    +adorable
    -Virtually useless against Elesa because it's too slow.
    -prone to missing the Aqua Tail until Waterfall is obtained.
    Last edited by peacemaker987; 21st October 2012 at 6:13 PM.
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    Darmanitan - Top Tier
    Availability - Early-Mid (Route 4)
    Notable Moves - Fire Punch, Flare Blitz, Hammer Arm, Rock Slide, Bulldoze
    Stats - Monstrous Atk, Great HP. Decent stats otherwise

    +Has the most Powerul Attack available within the main game
    +Perfect availability, completely destroying Burgh
    +Makes the otherwise challenging Corless fight a joke
    -Hustle means it'll be missing everyone once in a while
    -Overusing Flare Blitz requires heavy maintinance


    Vaporeon - Upper Mid
    Availability - Mid Game (PWT)
    Notable Moves - Surf, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Toxic
    Stats - Great HP and SpA. Above average SpD and mediocre stats everywhere else.
    +It's stats make for one of the best Special tankers within the game
    +One of the few Pokemon thaat can really take advantage of ToxiStalling
    -Lacks a STAB move until Driftveil, requiring a Heart Scale after the Clay Battle

    I'd like to get the OP (dragoniteftw) to agree to this before editting the Tiering.

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