•Official B2/W2 In-Game Tiers• * READ THE OP *

[Aurath8]

tbh we really shouldn't factor in Battle Subway / PWT rewards as it detracts from a Pokemon's usability. A base 60 BP / 10 PP until Very lategame where most other Pokemon will have their final STAB moves hinder it. Sure, it can get some nice moves via TM and Move Tutors, but it doesn't replace the fact that it's lacking a STAB move.

@Lucario discussion: Drain Punch. You get it from the Move tutor in Lentimas town, which is late lvl 30s iirc. I think with that he can reach top-tier with that.

[2/3] on Darmanitan. Having the strongest Fire attack in the entire in the game does count for a lot.

[Zhanton]

Although Darmanitan has one less Gym to knock over in BW2, due to Brycen being replaced by Marlon, he completely dominates Colress and still hits like a truck throughout the game, so I'll give it an approval. [3/3]

Personally I think it's fine to factor in PWT rewards in the tiering as it's a legitimate method of gaining shards. As for the Battle Subway, not so much since it takes a lot longer to reach a steak of 7 than it does to win three matches/lose on purpose in the PWT.

@ the person who asked what Anti-Cheren is, it basically means that Counter is the best way of defeating Cheren. Drain Punch is a good point regarding Lucario, and that coupled with the fact that he can work fine with coverage moves in Dig, Bone Rush and very early Return means he's pretty powerful. His plethora of resistances are also very useful, so I think he can fit into top-tier with that.

Also I can't see Magmortar any higher than Mid, possible Upper-mid at the very best. It faces stiff competition from Growlithe and Darumakka although I don't think other Pokemon should dictate whether a Pokemon is good or not. The fact that it'll be stuck as a Magby until Lv 30 is pretty annoying, and you don't get Magmortar until after the 8th gym so you'll likely be babying it a lot.

And finally, I'll [3/3] Vaporeon for upper-mid, and I agree with Sigilyph for Upper-mid [1/3].



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Darmanitan [3/3] - Top (FoldingScreen, AuraWarrior8, zhanton)
Vaporeon [3/3] - Upper-mid (Dragoniteftw, FoldingScreen, zhanton)
Magnezone [2/3] - Top (FoldingScreen, AuraWarrior8)
Sigilyph [1/3] - Upper-mid (zhanton)

where italics indicate a certified poster

[cooloolcool]

Ducklett - Upper-Mid
Availability - Mid Game (Driftveil Bridge)
Notable Moves - Surf, Fly, Air Slash, Aqua Ring, Hurricane, Rain Dance, Tailwind, FeatherDance, Roost
Stats Average. Not amazing, but good for what it's for.

- Description -

+Great Team Supporter. Learns the 2 most valuable HMs, along with good Status moves (Tailwind, Featherdance)
+Can support itself. (Rain Dance, Stab Hurricane, Rain boosted Stab Surf)
+Easily defeats Clay with Water attacks and immunity to ground.
-Not amazing Stats.
-Takes a bit of running around a bridge to find.
-4x weak to Electric.

[peacemaker987]

^I'd put ducklett as flat mid, it doesn't learn Hurricane till level 55 (if evolved) and there are other water types available that are more reliable. How will good HM slaves be tiered?

oh god I feel so out of it. I suppose I'll give it a try.

Azumarill - High
Availability - early (as azurill)
Notable Moves - Double Edge, Aqua Tail, Super Power, Ice Punch(with tutor)
Stats - Fairly bulky, good offense

- Description -

+Gets Huge Power and great coverage after receiving Return/Frustration at the first gym. Aqua Tail is a solid STAB if you can get it to evolve fast enough.
+Solid movepool that doesn't take too much effort to make.
+Early evolution makes for a great early game.
+adorable
-Virtually useless against Elesa because it's too slow.
-prone to missing the Aqua Tail until Waterfall is obtained.

[Tsumiki]

Darmanitan - Top Tier
Availability - Early-Mid (Route 4)
Notable Moves - Fire Punch, Flare Blitz, Hammer Arm, Rock Slide, Bulldoze
Stats - Monstrous Atk, Great HP. Decent stats otherwise

+Has the most Powerul Attack available within the main game
+Perfect availability, completely destroying Burgh
+Makes the otherwise challenging Corless fight a joke
-Hustle means it'll be missing everyone once in a while
-Overusing Flare Blitz requires heavy maintinance


Vaporeon - Upper Mid
Availability - Mid Game (PWT)
Notable Moves - Surf, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Toxic
Stats - Great HP and SpA. Above average SpD and mediocre stats everywhere else.
+It's stats make for one of the best Special tankers within the game
+One of the few Pokemon thaat can really take advantage of ToxiStalling
-Lacks a STAB move until Driftveil, requiring a Heart Scale after the Clay Battle

I'd like to get the OP (dragoniteftw) to agree to this before editting the Tiering.

[Dragoniteftw]

Darmanitan - Top Tier
Availability - Early-Mid (Route 4)
Notable Moves - Fire Punch, Flare Blitz, Hammer Arm, Rock Slide, Bulldoze
Stats - Monstrous Atk, Great HP. Decent stats otherwise

+Has the most Powerul Attack available within the main game
+Perfect availability, completely destroying Burgh
+Makes the otherwise challenging Corless fight a joke
-Hustle means it'll be missing everyone once in a while
-Overusing Flare Blitz requires heavy maintinance


Vaporeon - Upper Mid
Availability - Mid Game (PWT)
Notable Moves - Surf, Ice Beam, Shadow Ball, Toxic
Stats - Great HP and SpA. Above average SpD and mediocre stats everywhere else.
+It's stats make for one of the best Special tankers within the game
+One of the few Pokemon thaat can really take advantage of ToxiStalling
-Lacks a STAB move until Driftveil, requiring a Heart Scale after the Clay Battle

I'd like to get the OP (dragoniteftw) to agree to this before editting the Tiering.

perfect! the first tier editions :')

[Tsumiki]

Several things to cover, so here I go!

First off, I've editted the Tiering with the former two mentioned two Pokemon (Darmanitan, Vaporeon). I'll probably stick to this format unless someone really has a qualm against it. Also, in which order should Pokemon within a tier be ordered? Order of apperance? Dex Number? Alphabetical? Thoughts?

I give a [1/3] (FoldingScreen) to Swanna being Middle Tier. It's stats just don't do it enough justice. Also with HM Slaves, with BW2 rarely requiring HM interaction at all, I say we don't consider it a factor. Thoughts on this?

Ahh, Drain Punch has me sold onTop Lucario [1/3]. Actually, should I just edit Lucario into the OP as both zhanton and Aura seem to agree with it? It'll srill fulfil the three-approval criteria iregardless.

I agree with Azumarril for High Tier as well [1/3] (FoldingScreen). You should also mention Ice Punch somewhere in the OP, Jordan. You could also mention Route 6 Marril as an alternative location for those who don't want to bother with Azurril.

Concerning Pokemon being ranked based on other Pokemon, I agree with zhanton (or whatever his irl name is x)) that a Pokemon should be tiered completely independant of others.*

Finally, a tiering of my own, yay!

Flygon - Lower Middle Tier
Availability - Mid Game (Desert Resort)
Notable Moves - Bulldoze, Rock Slide, Dragonbreath, Dragon Claw, Earth Power, Fire Punch, Fire Blast
Stats - Good Atk and Spe. Usable SpA. Lackluster Defenses.

Flygon isn't a bad Pokemon. On the contrary, it would probably be Upper-Mid at the very least if not for one glaring problem. It's Pre-Evos. Getting Trapinch to evolve into Vibrava and subsequently Flygon requires much more babying than it's worth. You have Trapinch, which has a phenominal Atk stat compared to where you catch it. You also have terrible defenses and nonexistant Spe. Once it evolves, it trades it's Atk stat for Defenses and Spe. It doesn't stop it from being terrible, but it's something. By the time you manage to get it evolved into Flygon, you'll probably only be left with Marlon and the Elite Four, which Flygon doesn't do all that well against. To add insult to injury, Dragon Claw is learned at a very late level and Earthquake is nonexistant in it's Level Up movepool.*

That being said, it does have a number of postive traits. First off, it learns Bulldoze off the bat and learns Rock Slide soon after, giving you two great tools to worth with. It's stats as a Flygon means it'll be smacking random trainers around with relatvely little trouble, assuming the player has the common sense to use it wisely.*

+It works well as an Endgame player
+Gets two fantasic moves very early on, with the Atk stat to compliment it
-It evolves too late to be of use for any major battles
-No endgame STAB moves until very late levels
-Trapinch is terrible
-Vibrava is arguably worse

[Tonguetyd]

I don't agree very much with your Flygon analysis,I catched Vibrava in Rebirth Mountain's dark grass.It came at level 38 while my team was 42.That's not so bad.
If you happen to have Blue Shards,you can teach it a very good move in Dragon Pulse plus it comes with Rock Slide.I recommend Vibrava only if you are patient enough to raise it.

[Tsumiki]

.I recommend Vibrava only if you are patient enough to raise it.

Exaclty, you'll only be able to see rewards if you spend a long period of time babying a terrible Pokemon. Also, do note that Flygon only has 80SpA, so Dragon Pulse really isn't going to be dealing a whole lot of damage.

[koosbane]

I catched

Caught.

also, in the vaporeon description, there are two a's in what, somewhere in there.

love it so far, going to suggest a pokemon soon.

[Dragoniteftw]

@flygon I think lower-mid is the correct tier. It is a great pokemon dominates UU in wifi. However its movepool just doesn't suit BW2 unfortunately. Not only is trapinch and vibrava a pain in the backside to train you are rewarded with wait for it...... DRAGON TAIL! Possibly the worst dragon move. Level 55 is around the level you'd be fore E4 so you'd have dragon claw for that. However that is still another 10 levels of grinding not to mention the fact that EQ still isn't available until post-E4.

Rating and tiers aside. I have decided to use a flygon (Defiant braviary got boring but I shall rate him soon most likely TOP/HIGH) however what I did was to catch vibrava at reversal mountain and trade flygon to white for dragon claw and EQ - cheap I know but I wanted to use him.

@Lucario do we have some sort of decision into placing him in a tier? I am gunna change my mind again and say TOP - drain punch is a great move and sword dance is available at level 37 anyway to blitz any opponent. The most important thing to remember with lucario is the fact you will have him for the whole game which definitely is making me lean to the TOP tier.

[azeem40]

Just a question. Will all these Pokemon be the same tiering for post-game?

[Aurath8]

Dont forget the lower tiers guys:

Golurk - Bottom Tier
Endgame (Victory Road) -
Notable Moves - Earthquake, Shadow Punch, Hammer Arm, Drain Punch, Ice Punch, Rock Slide
Stats Great attack. Low Speed and Spatk. Fairly good defences.

- Description -

+Great attack stat and comes prepackaged with STAB Earthquake.
+Is fairly useful in postgame battles.
-Low Speed hampers its offensive capability.
-It is the penultimate wild pokemon encountered before the Elite 4, behind Zweilous.
-Not useful against 2 of the Elite 4 and struggles against Iris without Ice Punch.

[azeem40]

I agree with Golurk's tiering because it doesn't learn too many good moves leveling up. I still used him. Ditched Sandslash and trained it up with wild Audino. :P

[Tonguetyd]

Elekid - Low Tier

Availability - Early (Virbank Complex)

Notable Moves - Wild Charge,Ice Punch,Fire Punch,Thunder Wave,Thunderbolt,Low Kick,Psychic,Flamethrower,Earthquake,Rock Slide

Stats - Nice offenses after evolving, good enough speed

When you catch Elekid,it is pretty bad.Lackluster offenses and fraility mean it's not going to perform very well.Before Driftveil City,it's offense is limited to Electric and Fighting.At that point I suggest tutoring Ice Punch and/or Signal Beam.Electabuzz isn't very great either.The only real reason to use these pokemon is Electivire,who will steamroll everything.

+ Available Early
+ Electivire is a monster with tons of coverage
- Has to rely on Electric and Fighting before Driftveil city
- Evolves late
- Isn't evolvable without trading

[azeem40]

Tangrowth - Mid Tier

Availability: Semi-late

Notable Moves - Power Whip, Giga Drain, Focus Blast, Rock Slide, Bulldoze

You can get it fully evolved in Shaking Grass or as a level 34 or 35 (2 or 1 levels away from evolving). Pretty solid Defense and the ability to go both Physical and Special. If you have sun support, it can even outspeed some Pokemon.

[Aurath8]

Elekid - Low Tier

I'd put Electivire in Middle tier alongside Magmortar. They both have an almost identical situation: They begin well but really falter as they don't evolve until lvl 30. They don't reach their final forms until the Plasma Frigate when you get their respective evolution items. Actually, Electivire might be Low-Middle, since it doesn't get Earthquake until it reaches its final form leaving it with Electric move, Low Kick, Ice Punch after Driftveil and fodder for quite a while. Otherwise, very nice.

Also, in which order should Pokemon within a tier be ordered? Order of apperance? Dex Number? Alphabetical? Thoughts?

Alphabetical. imo, it's by far the easiest way to find a pokemon. I don't know dex numbers and I'll need to look up locations but I (and i hope almost everyone on SPPf) knows the alphabet and the english names of pokemon.

Just a question. Will all these Pokemon be the same tiering for post-game?

I'm fairly sure we only tier for the main game. Post-game is just too...amorphous to make tiers for it. There's also lots of different goals you can attempt post-game: you could try and get all the medals, complete the Battle Frontier or just catch 'em all. Post-game tiers just wouldn't hold as much weight when there's a lot besides battling to do.


Azumarill for High tier [2/3]
Lucario for Top tier [2/3]
Flygon for Low Middle tier [1/3]
Sigilyph for Upper Middle tier [2/3]

[cooloolcool]

I will finish a few of these pokemon.

Azumarill for High tier [3/3] FoldingScreen, Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool
Lucario for Top tier [3/3] FoldingScreen, Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool
Flygon for Low Middle tier [2/3] Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool
Sigilyph for Upper Middle tier [3/3] zhanton, Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool

I believe I did that right.

[Tonguetyd]

I'm saying Sigilyph for Upper Mid too.It was a pain to find and catch one,but for that state in the game, it beasted through everything.You have to put up with Psybeam and Air Cutter until you get Surf(Energy Ball TM!),and decent STAB comes on levels 41 and 44, so it's not exactly early,but you can handle that.Hypnosis is pretty nice too.The thing can learn Shadow Ball,Heat Wave,Dark Pulse,Signal Beam,Ice Beam and Ancient Egyptian Lazor Beam,so movepool isn't an issue at all.The only problem I had with Sigilyph was that it started to become frail around the endgame.

[Dragoniteftw]

I will finish a few of these pokemon.

Azumarill for High tier [3/3] FoldingScreen, Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool
Lucario for Top tier [3/3] FoldingScreen, Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool
Flygon for Low Middle tier [2/3] Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool
Sigilyph for Upper Middle tier [3/3] zhanton, Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool

I believe I did that right.

*Flygon for low Middle tier [3/3] Aurawarrior8, cooloolcool, FoldingScreen